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[V_Arnold]

It will be sponsored, and will probably keep a deserving game like Skullgirls or KOF out.

Uhm..... After XII, no KOF is defaulted as "deserving". After SFIV/SSFIV, this team's next game IS defaulted as "deserving". Skullgirls is not out either, so what is your point here?

Let the games release before you start to say whether it is deserving or not a spot in EVO.

 

[TGMIII]

I'm fine with the gem system it'll be fun to play as a casual fighter but not on a tournament level in any way. My problem is with gems being DLC meaning people can pay for better gems, that right there is bullshit.

 

[kyubajin]

I'm not big on fighting games but... aren't exclusive pre-order gems and the like opposed to balance?

 

[SolarPowered]

I'm not big on fighting games but... aren't exclusive pre-order gems and the like opposed to balance?

Post launch DLC gems don't help either. It's one thing when you have to contend with a couple of new DLC characters, but it is a whole nother thing when it's ten or fifteen gems.

It may not turn out so bad so I'll cautiously bide my time until more is revealed.

 

[V_Arnold]

Gems as DLC can be done right or wrong.

-Gems with X ability as an unlockable ingame
-Gems with X ability plus a cosmetic bullshit as paid DLC
-Gems with X ability as a DLC also with a different aura or simply as an alternative means of getting it

---------------------

This system is good. I can get behind this.

-----------------------

-Gems with X Ability as an unlockable ingame
-Gems with X+1 Ability as a DLC
-Gems with X Ability + cosmetic as DLC

------------------------

This system is bad for home players, irrevelant for tournament players because they will train with default gems anyways, others will not be present on the tourney setup anyway.

If I was a ranked-whore, who only cares about being better than others, I would be very scared. But I am not. I will play this game with my friends, with our local scene and with GAF, and there player skill WILL dominate, not someone's hope that a DLC gem will save his ass. It most likely wont.

But I would not encourage Capcom on the DLC gem part. Get that shit as cosmetic as possible. That is an important lesson.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I was starting to warm up to gems and now i read that they might be some that i might not be able to get .
Now i piss off again , that along with no karin just making me want this game less and less.
Putting something in fighting game that not everyone can get and have it effecting gameplay is fucking stupid as fuck.

 

[Arozay]

DLC gems better be shit, like goat sound effects on hit.

 

[Bleepey]

DLC gems better be shit, like goat sound effects on hit.

That made me laugh way more than it should have.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

"There will be no option to disable gems in SFxT."

But Mr. Wizard so thoroughly tested this aspect of the game. Whatever will become of our precious SFxT competitive sanctity?

Dude

We get it.

You're REALLY UPTIGHT about Evo's treatment of Smash Bros.

We get it.

 

[-PXG-]

DLC gems better be shit, like goat sound effects on hit.

LOL

 

[Skilletor]

I don't see the problem with unlocks as it gives people incentive to explore the game outside multiplayer. Any DLC Gems that aren't free should be banned.


I'll be honest, I think Ono and Seth are full of shit trying to pass these Gems off as intrinsic to the gameplay. Were that true, they'd have let us know about them long ago.

I don't give a fuck about anything outside multiplayer. I play fighting games for one reason and that is to play against other people. Don't force me to unlock things intrinsic to the game by making me play boring AI characters.

 

[AAK]

Purchasing decision cancelled. No option to disable is some bullshit. I wonder what Evo will do about this, ban the game altogether?

That is kinda like saying you won't play MvC3 since you should be allowed to disable Assists and X factor.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

That is kinda like saying you won't play MvC3 since you should be allowed to disable Assists and X factor.

Assists aren't DLC

 

[V_Arnold]

I don't give a fuck about anything outside multiplayer. I play fighting games for one reason and that is to play against other people. Don't force me to unlock things intrinsic to the game by making me play boring AI characters.

Uhm, where did you assume that? Simple point gains after each versus match is enough to unlock stuff for example in SF3:3SOE, so why not use that system, and simply get gems as you play versus online/offline with human opponents only?

 

[Flying Wonkey]

I wonder how we are exactly supposed to unlock some of the more good gems in the game. I shudder to think they would just give us crappy goals like 'do a tag cancel' mid match or something.

Or maybe this implies they went with fully fledged game play modes where we unlock it progressively. (Beat a boss in Story mode, complete trial number # etc)

Spoiler

or ya know pay for them

 

[Hot Coldman]

Not that I necessarily agree with Capcom's handling of the gems, but it's kinda like how anyone who plays a TCG doesn't have all the cards. You're still expected to know what to do against some who does have a certain card. They can certainly get away with making certain gems DLC, mechanics wise.

 

[AAK]

Assists aren't DLC

That's not the reason he gave, he doesn't like it because it can't be disabled. But then again, like MvC3 DLC characters aren't banned either.

 

[LegatoB]

Uhm, where did you assume that? Simple point gains after each versus match is enough to unlock stuff for example in SF3:3SOE, so why not use that system, and simply get gems as you play versus online/offline with human opponents only?

As a player who often plays in local tournaments and helps organize them, the absolute last thing we want is a requirement to have to grind out unlockables for each system we want to use as a tournament station. What that means is that we can't bring up any last-minute emergency systems if we have a hardware problem or somebody who has all the gems unlocked on his 360 gets stuck in traffic or hit by a bus. Anyone remember the bad old days of the first SF4 release, where half the cast has to be unlocked? Even Marvel vs. Capcom 3's four unlockable characters are extremely obnoxious to obtain, in large part because (aside from Hsien-Ko) they're quite popular choices! Nobody sane wants to go back to that.

Not that I necessarily agree with Capcom's handling of the gems, but it's kinda like how anyone who plays a TCG doesn't have all the cards. You're still expected to know what to do against some who does have a certain card. They can certainly get away with making certain gems DLC, mechanics wise.

It's a lot easier to practice against TCG cards you don't own vs. game mechanics in a videogame you don't have specific access too. One of these only requires the text description of the card and a pen.

 

[enzo_gt]

That is kinda like saying you won't play MvC3 since you should be allowed to disable Assists and X factor.

Not really. They didn't advertise MvC3 as an assist-less, X-Factorless game for months before revealing a new mechanic which is so integral to the game that it couldn't possibly exist or be played without it now could it? Oh and MvC3 didn't have DLC/pre-order bonus augmentations of core, supposodly integral gameplay mechanics unavailable to all.

This just built on all my previous gripes with the game anyways. I just see it as Capcom saving me some money. Loads of production value and content, poor decisions on managing them all around. Illl buy back in if Sakura makes it though.

 

[mr. puppy]

well, i'm never getting this game then

 

[Chindogg]

Purchasing decision cancelled. No option to disable is some bullshit. I wonder what Evo will do about this, ban the game altogether?

That's a very good possibility.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

That's a very good possibility.

Would banning the DLC exclusive gems solve the problem or would it only cause more ruckus among the tourney people?

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

No SFxT? Room for KoF13, baby

 

[sixteen-bit]

Mandatory gems? Pass.

 

[Chavelo]

Wait, people are okay with unlocking characters and core gameplay stuff in fighting games?

...

Really? Don't you guys play with other people offline? Or at their house?

On topic with the gem system: gonna have to pass on this game day 1... will prolly pick it up on steam sale or if there is a good amount of support from the community right off the bat, cause right now I ain't feeling half of the cast (Tekken-side, tho it's a great series).

 

[AAK]

Not really. They didn't advertise MvC3 as an assist-less, X-Factorless game for months before revealing a new mechanic which is so integral to the game that it couldn't possibly exist or be played without it now could it? Oh and MvC3 didn't have DLC/pre-order bonus augmentations of core, supposodly integral gameplay mechanics unavailable to
all.

You're actually being unfair IMO. Throughout the entire marketing campaign Capcom was always transparent saying that there are always going to be more features added. The gameplay was first shown in 2010 so they were relatively early in development wheras MvC3 debuted its gameplay in June only 7 months away from release so they pretty much had all the gameplay elements down.

This just built on all my previous gripes with the game anyways. I just see it as Capcom saving me some money. Loads of production value and content, poor decisions on managing them all around. Illl buy back in if Sakura makes it though.

It's one thing about being apprehensive, but at the same time you should be open to new advancements in fighting games.

As a player who often plays in local tournaments and helps organize them, the absolute last thing we want is a requirement to have to grind out unlockables for each system we want to use as a tournament station. What that means is that we can't bring up any last-minute emergency systems if we have a hardware problem or somebody who has all the gems unlocked on his 360 gets stuck in traffic or hit by a bus. Anyone remember the bad old days of the first SF4 release, where half the cast has to be unlocked? Even Marvel vs. Capcom 3's four unlockable characters are extremely obnoxious to obtain, in large part because (aside from Hsien-Ko) they're quite popular choices! Nobody sane wants to go back to that.

Capcom said there will be default builds for the gems that can be the standard during tournament play. Seriously people, what's wrong with waiting to hear more information about the complete implementation before judging it straight away.

 

[Corky]

Hey for all we know maybe they didn't even plan for the game to be competitive...

*shrug*

 

[alstein]

Wait, people are okay with unlocking characters and core gameplay stuff in fighting games?

...

Really? Don't you guys play with other people offline? Or at their house?

People don't like it, but have come to expect it.

It can be a real pain for tournies, why people ask for all the DLC to be bought and unlocks to be done (with SFIV that would have been a real huge problem if everyone didn't own the game)

Would banning the DLC exclusive gems solve the problem or would it only cause more ruckus among the tourney people?

You'll have to have tournies to have a problem with it. If this game truly ends up shunned, EVO is going to have a massive problem running it because of the unlocked gem problem.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Hey for all we know maybe they didn't even plan for the game to be competitive...

*shrug*

That sounds quite possible.

 

[MrDaravon]

Would banning the DLC exclusive gems solve the problem or would it only cause more ruckus among the tourney people?

I think it's going to depend on how difficult it is to unlock the unlockable on-disc gems. The fact that some of these are pre-order/CE exclusive (at least at first) totally mucks up the whole thing. Then if you don't do that and only allow the default gems to be accessed there's still time issues, as well as having to make sure that no one selects a non-default gem. It's just adding up to what seems to be a huge pain for tourney organizers. I did read somewhere (either here or SRK I think) that apparently while gems are not optional, you can apparently choose to select no gems before a match so that would be the likely workaround.

 

[TheSeks]

Is there an option to turn off the gems? I honestly can't see this being "competitive" if there isn't.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Is there really this many tournament players here? The gems seem like a cool customization/RPGish mechanic and something diff for a fighting game. From the replies you'd think half the people in the thread are pro tournament players. Most of us will just be playing online vs. randoms and friends, right?

 

[Chindogg]

Would banning the DLC exclusive gems solve the problem or would it only cause more ruckus among the tourney people?

It depends honestly. You kinda get into a Smash Brothers predicament when it comes to gems. Should we allow gems? What gems are allowed? It becomes very difficult to make a uniform decision and I know for a fact that a lot of guys don't want anything like what happened with Smash at their tournaments.

After speaking to a few major tournament organizers, there is a general consensus to wait and see. But for now, no one likes the idea of having to buy DLC gems for every setup and adding even more time to the prematch ritual of changing buttons. Some organizers just don't like the game period and may not feature it as a main tournament game at all.

 

[Chavelo]

Hey for all we know maybe they didn't even plan for the game to be competitive...

*shrug*

And the thousand of Melee fans cried with the FGC... :3

Is there really this many tournament players here? The gems seem like a cool customization/RPGish mechanic and something diff for a fighting game. From the replies you'd think half the people in the thread are pro tournament players. Most of us will just be playing online vs. randoms and friends, right?

Didn't you see me on the Seasons Beatings Velocity stream? Went 0-2 on Marvel and showed up late for Street Fighter. HOLD DAT SHIT.

 

[Corky]

http://nintendookie.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/sakurai.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

Lol, hey man you went there not me. [spoiler] though that's not [I]too [/I]far away from what I thought :p[/spoiler]

 

[MrDaravon]

Is there really this many tournament players here? The gems seem like a cool customization/RPGish mechanic and something diff for a fighting game. From the replies you'd think half the people in the thread are pro tournament players. Most of us will just be playing online vs. randoms and friends, right?

A lot of us don't necessarily have a ton of friends to play with; I get about 95% of my MvC3 fix by watching tournament streams every week, and if this game winds up not being done at tournaments because of this it's a huge disappointment.

I just don't understand why this isn't a side mode; it adds a ton of management, and now I have to start worrying about being at a disadvantage because I didn't pre-order or get the Collector's Edition. It's retarded. Whereas the card thing in UMvC3 is cool because it's completely it's own thing, and any later DLC for that wouldn't piss me off because it would have no effect on the core game.

 

[Hot Coldman]

It's a lot easier to practice against TCG cards you don't own vs. game mechanics in a videogame you don't have specific access too. One of these only requires the text description of the card and a pen.

True, true. Ha, I never thought of it like that. Still, it's not like competitive players won't be watching online videos and reading forums and such anyone. Knowledge of how to combat the specific gems will become known, one way or another.

 

[Skilletor]

Uhm, where did you assume that? Simple point gains after each versus match is enough to unlock stuff for example in SF3:3SOE, so why not use that system, and simply get gems as you play versus online/offline with human opponents only?

I was responding to him saying "incentive to play something outside multiplayer."

Is there really this many tournament players here? The gems seem like a cool customization/RPGish mechanic and something diff for a fighting game. From the replies you'd think half the people in the thread are pro tournament players. Most of us will just be playing online vs. randoms and friends, right?

You don't have to be a "pro tournament player" to enjoy competition.

 

[TGMIII]

True, true. Ha, I never thought of it like that. Still, it's not like competitive players won't be watching online videos and reading forums and such anyone. Knowledge of how to combat the specific gems will become known, one way or another.

Having the knowledge is fine, it's actually playing against it and knowing how to deal with it when it arises is the problem.

 

[Chindogg]

True, true. Ha, I never thought of it like that. Still, it's not like competitive players won't be watching online videos and reading forums and such anyone. Knowledge of how to combat the specific gems will become known, one way or another.

Not when gems do different things with different characters. Matchups are almost impossible to learn now. So many random factors to keep in mind with gems.

 

[LegatoB]

Capcom said there will be default builds for the gems that can be the standard during tournament play.

While that would work, it seems like it would lose much of the flexibility that the gems should bring in the first place.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Having the knowledge is fine, it's actually playing against it and knowing how to deal with it when it arises is the problem.

Indeed, which is where I find the problem really. That, and fuck Capcom for nickle and diming their fans once again.

 

[Terareflection]

Hey for all we know maybe they didn't even plan for the game to be competitive...

*shrug*

Someone sees the light.

 

[CPS2]

Some organizers just don't like the game period and may not feature it as a main tournament game at all.

I really don't like the idea of it not being run at all at majors. They should at least be able to have an invite only round robin or something, its not as if the game will be complete garbage. If the competitive community doesn't like it at all, it says a lot about their confidence in anything ono works on from here out. Its probably more about finding the right format for this game, i think maybe casuals and exhibitions could be the way to go.

I guess also waiting to see how capcom themselves run tournaments would be interesting. They could probably sell it as a competitive game by creating events and having top players attend. Hopefully whatever format they use won't be a pita to duplicate.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

Street Fighter x Tekken: Dat Deep Troll Edition

 

[enzo_gt]

You're actually being unfair IMO. Throughout the entire marketing campaign Capcom was always transparent saying that there are always going to be more features added. The gameplay was first shown in 2010 so they were relatively early in development wheras MvC3 debuted its gameplay in June only 7 months away from release so they pretty much had all the gameplay elements down.



It's one thing about being apprehensive, but at the same time you should be open to new advancements in fighting games.




Capcom said there will be default builds for the gems that can be the standard during tournament play. Seriously people, what's wrong with waiting to hear more information about the complete implementation before judging it straight away.

I would agree SFxT is more of a work in progress kind of deal, and yes they have been adding new mechanics progressively, but nothing on the scale of the gem system, which in conjunction with the pre-order day 1 advantage DLC bullshit I don't have to deal with. Good idea. Bad decisions. Games do day 1 advantage DLC and it's frowned upon, and I think in the case of fighting games its even worse.

Like I said, I like the concept, but it's implemented terribly. Autoblock, autotech gems? In the core gameplay? Not available to everyone? That fucks up the very mechanics many fighting games are based upon. That shit is a no-go, especially when it's advantageously available to people who pre-order/buy premium versions or whatnot.

I'm obviously an MvC fanboy, but I don't want to stir shit up here. However I feel the H&H mode is a much better approach to this "customize your experience" kind of thing Capcom is pushing in both titles quite explicitly. I've been rallying for Halo-levels of customized user experiences forever in every genre and these are good steps forward I think. The difference here is H&H is a separate mode from the core experience that takes us into quite literally experimental territory, and I think that's the best approach no matter how hard your trying to push customization in fighting games. H&H is equally as likely to get DLC cards after it releases but I can't really think of what can get more broken than the permanent X-Factor card already in.

If your making experiences customizable, then why aren't you also catering to those who wants the plain jane ordeal as well? Does that not fit within the boundaries of what you deem the customizability of the experience as? It's a design philosophy devs don't understand at times.

 

[Omiee]

pc release? fuck yeaah!!

cant wait, im sick of only having street fighter as my pc fighter.

 

[AAK]

I would agree SFxT is more of a work in progress kind of deal, and yes they have been adding new mechanics progressively, but nothing on the scale of the gem system, which in conjunction with the pre-order day 1 advantage DLC bullshit I don't have to deal with. Good idea. Bad decisions. Games do day 1 advantage DLC and it's frowned upon, and I think in the case of fighting games its even worse.

DLC I agree is a shame... in all fighting games. That sucks.

Like I said, I like the concept, but it's implemented terribly. Autoblock, autotech gems? In the core gameplay? Not available to everyone? That fucks up the very mechanics many fighting games are based upon. That shit is a no-go, especially when it's advantageously available to people who pre-order/buy premium versions or whatnot.

But the autoblock is a waste. It blocks for someone who's not holding block. That's a waste of a gem. Autotech is situational and time based. Those are just for beginners and not something a tournament player will use. Everything else like the defense, offence, etc. are more practical.

If your making experiences customizable, then why aren't you also catering to those who wants the plain jane ordeal as well? Does that not fit within the boundaries of what you deem the customizability of the experience as? It's a design philosophy devs don't understand at times.

You can equip no gems.

 

[enzo_gt]

You can equip no gems.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Online will probably suck though unless there's a vanilla playlist.

 

[Kimosabae]

Dude

We get it.

You're REALLY UPTIGHT about Evo's treatment of Smash Bros.

We get it.

People assume WAY too much shit given my avatar. I'm not some Smash apologist. I just find it hilarious that discussion seemed to hit a complete cul-de-sac once I posted the Seth interview.