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[LowParry]

Baseless speculation and arguing over something that most people have no clue over how it'll work?

Now a more valid complaint and something worth raising hell over is the certainty of Anna and Lee's absence. >_>

Eh, Anna can be absent but the Lee thing is kind of a bummer.

Anywho, people are probably jumping the gun a little too early. We have no final specs with these gems and the slot number could change for all we know.

 

[Ferrio]

Add a gem that does big head mode. Let's bring back the 90's.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

These so-called "esoteric mechanics" would be so much more exciting, and much less off-putting, if they weren't advertised so predominantly in every reveal, imo.

Maybe this is due to pressures from publishers, but I think fighting games would benefit if they were just released into the wild, with minimum exposure to their gameplay systems.

I was playing SFII in arcades in 1991 when that sort of "excitement" was the only option. I don't miss it at all. For me, the issue isn't that I know about them in advance; the issue is that I don't believe the additional complexity makes the games more enjoyable in most cases. More often than not, these additions get in the way of the core game.

If you showed chess to Capcom, they wouldn't see the value of the limitations on individual pieces and the potential for complex tactical interactions between players that existed in the relatively simple rules. Capcom would see an opportunity to spice it up by turning every non-King piece into a queen, adding a dice roll before each turn, and insist on giving your King super armor after you lost six pieces.

 

[LowParry]

I was playing SFII in arcades in 1991 when that sort of "excitement" was the only option. I don't miss it at all. For me, the issue isn't that I know about them in advance; the issue is that I don't believe the additional complexity makes the games more enjoyable in most cases. More often than not, these additions get in the way of the core game.

That's the thing, they're saying the gems are part of the core system.

 

[Sayah]

Eh, Anna can be absent but the Lee thing is kind of a bummer.

Anywho, people are probably jumping the gun a little too early. We have no final specs with these gems and the slot number could change for all we know.

HOW DARE YOU?

You got your Ling in so you don't care about anyone else anymore.
Xiaoyu vs. Anna.

Anna can do the better butt slapping. Therefore, she wins.

 

[CountAntonius]

GT Interview

• There will be a couple hundred gems available in Street Fighter X Tekken from the start.

• Gems vary by offense, defense and speed, but there are a lot of sub-categories in there.

• One example is a gem where the 3rd punch hits really hard. This wasn't elaborated on exactly what this means.

• According to Ono, the gem system is important as the super art or ultra combos, a very core thing. There's no modes where gems aren't accessible.

• Gems will be on the disc and if they need to expand after that, they can. If the community thinks of good ideas there could be more gems made available as DLC, in the future.

• There is some concern that people might not be using the tool set the developers had in mind. If things aren't working right, they can adjust the tool set for the community.

Well now that we know they will be in EVERY mode and we can assume being that it's such a big title it will be at competitions. I'm guessing there will just be banned Gems sets or something.

 

[enzo_gt]

Couple hundred minor variations on only a few different kinds of modifiers? Jesus, gonna be a bitch to keep track. Naturally the best will rise to the top fairly quick and wouldn't be a huge problem for tourney/competitive players I'd think, especially with the internet.

 

[CountAntonius]

I'm just curious to see how these are chosen and unlocked. It's really important that these gems can be picked quickly once you have a set in mind.

 

[spindashing]

No modes where Gems aren't accessible? Wow.

Good thing fighting games are my crack...

 

[darkblade77]

The only unsolvable problem with gems is the time it takes to select them. How long does it take to select 5 from hundreds (thousands?) of possible gems? There are easy ways to work around this in the home version of the game, but none of them are workable in a tournament format where hundreds of people will be sharing the same console, many of which who have never laid hands on it before.

At EVO we budget about 5 minutes for an SF4 match with 2 minutes for button config between matches. If we need to increase that budget to allow for another 3 minutes for people to choose all their gems, that's an increase of over 40% in the time it will take to run the tournament, which effectively means we need 40% more consoles to finish on-time. That's a tall order.

I'm assuming that if any ban occurs on Gems and how they work, it'll be because of the above instead of anything else.

 

[sixteen-bit]

No modes where Gems aren't accessible? Wow.

Preorder canceled.

 

[SolarPowered]

Couple hundred minor variations on only a few different kinds of modifiers? Jesus, gonna be a bitch to keep track. Naturally the best will rise to the top fairly quick and wouldn't be a huge problem for tourney/competitive players I'd think, especially with the internet.

Sounds way too messy for me. I also assume that we have no idea what Namco is making right now with TxSF...

Add a gem that does big head mode. Let's bring back the 90's.

Let us bring the nineties back in Marvel vs Capcom first.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm assuming that if any ban occurs on Gems and how they work, it'll be because of the above instead of anything else.

1) Write down/memorize what gems you use normally.
2) Sort list alphabetically during tournament while picking your gems
3) ???
4) Profit

 

[CountAntonius]

So any theory fighters already brainstorming some builds?

For a character like Zangief would you go for more power or more speed?

I really didn't think there would be hundreds of these things. There are gonna be some real interesting builds coming.

 

[Chindogg]

1) Write down/memorize what gems you use normally.
2) Sort list alphabetically during tournament while picking your gems
3) ???
4) Profit

Relying fighting game players to do this. Priceless.

I'm glad that finally some of the details are coming out. As more information comes out, you'll see why this system's getting banned.

 

[Finaika]

For a character like Zangief would you go for more power or more speed?

It'll be awesome seeing Zangief moving all over the screen like Cammy.

 

[darkblade77]

1) Write down/memorize what gems you use normally.
2) Sort list alphabetically during tournament while picking your gems
3) ???
4) Profit

Oh, I agree with that line of thought 100%. But that's more like an ideal a player should be following, not what's going to actually happen in a tournament with over 100 entrants.

TOs probably have to begin with considering the worst case of people being indecisive and pare their way up from that, while still allowing people a reasonable amount of time to make their choices.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I really want to see an actual match where these gems are active because right now it's sounds completely offputting.

 

[Professor Beef]

Oh, I agree with that line of thought 100%. But that's more like an ideal a player should be following, not what's going to actually happen in a tournament with over 100 entrants.

I give 0 fucks if my opponent can't decide on time, be it Grooves, characters, Ultras, etc. That's on them for not being prepared, not me.

Relying fighting game players to do this. Priceless.

I'm glad that finally some of the details are coming out. As more information comes out, you'll see why this system's getting banned.

Relying on people to be prepared? Yes, what a foreign concept. But then again the FGC is notorious for having huge fucking fight sticks stolen from under their noses, so nothing should shock me anymore.

And are you under NDA or something? Because this whole "just trust me" schtick is getting old fast.

 

[Kimosabae]

Like Kaijima implied: I don't see how a competitive player will fly out to Evo and not have his team and Gem combinations established. That's like a guy flying out for Marvel, sitting down , and flirting around with the Assist options. Sure, there will be instances you will want to experiment, in consideration of matchups, but it will certainly be within certain parameters.

Trying to pretend like running a fighting game tournament can be done just like a well-oiled machine is silly.

 

[QisTopTier]

I give 0 fucks if my opponent can't decide on time, be it Grooves, characters, Ultras, etc. That's on them for not being prepared, not me.

I think gems are selected before characters too. So that's extra hilarious.

For a character like Zangief would you go for more power or more speed?

You go defense like a douche bag of course.

 

[Chindogg]

And are you under NDA or something? Because this whole "just trust me" schtick is getting old fast.

You could say that.

They still have time to make changes. But if things stay the way they are, you probably won't see SFxT at EVO.

 

[darkblade77]

I give 0 fucks if my opponent can't decide on time, be it Grooves, characters, Ultras, etc. That's on them for not being prepared, not me.

Well obviously. The question is how much hypothetical extra time has to be given for Gems. 9/10 times serious players are going to pick their gem combination and characters in seconds, the normal behavior is largely moot when considering how much time to give. It's when a player loses a match and possibly has to reconsider his/her team composition and Gem composition because of a matchup, or if he/she wants to try something different for other reasons, whatever. That's what I mean by worst case.

Trying to pretend like running a fighting game tournament can be done just like a well-oiled machine is silly.

That's kind of the point though. It never goes that smoothly in practice, but even considering that a substantial amount of time is saved when organizers attempt to keep those factors as limited as possible.

 

[enzo_gt]

Either the sorting options have to be godlike, or no matter what it's gonna take a fuckload of time to sift through hundreds of gems.

 

[Professor Beef]

As long as there's an option to sort in alphabetical order and to skip through pages, I don't see how there could possibly be a time problem. It's on the players to memorize and choose their gems and any possible backups they may or may not need. 60-90 seconds is all people will need if you can sort like I suggested, and that's being generous.

It's like people have never played a game with customization options before, god damn. The sky isn't falling, so stop worrying.

 

[Slamtastic]

You could say that.

They still have time to make changes. But if things stay the way they are, you probably won't see SFxT at EVO.

Not that I wouldn't be incredibly happy at that, but really.

It's the newest Capcom fighting title. It has an EVO slot, and will knock out one of last year's titles for it. The game could brick your console and it would still have an EVO spot.

 

[DatBreh]

I really dont like the kitchen sink approach Capcom took with this game. If there was a separate gem mode i could deal but this is too much.

 

[CPS2]

If you can counter pick gems, selecting 5 from a few hundred, nobody will get past the select screen. Worst case is mandatory double blind, but its all just time consuming. Ponder's already explained it well enough, they estimate it takes 40% longer to run.

 

[Kintaro]

I see dedicated separate SF x TK streams in our future. =p

 

[Chindogg]

If you can counter pick gems, selecting 5 from a few hundred, nobody will get past the select screen. Worst case is mandatory double blind, but its all just time consuming. Ponder's already explained it well enough, they estimate it takes 40% longer to run.

Glad someone has started to figure it out.

 

[marathonfool]

Forget theory fighter, let's go theory tournament organizer.

 

[akilshohen]

I want some cosmetic gems now. I thought they were gonna have that too. I guess these gems are sort of inspired by the Tekken Force mode in T6.

 

[alstein]

Not that I wouldn't be incredibly happy at that, but really.

It's the newest Capcom fighting title. It has an EVO slot, and will knock out one of last year's titles for it. The game could brick your console and it would still have an EVO spot.

It would be super-embarassing if the game has an EVO slot and everyone's watching VF casuals instead. Then again, if it's a game people shun, a lot of 2nd-tier players may enter thinking it's their best chance to win EVO.

 

[CountAntonius]

Capcom Unity Petition For Gem Free Option

Whatever side you fall on in the Gem debate, more options are never a bad thing.

These threads usually do well to get Capcom's attention and have brought changes before. Sign to show support.

 

[SapientWolf]

You could say that.

They still have time to make changes. But if things stay the way they are, you probably won't see SFxT at EVO.

All Ono said was, "There's no modes where gems aren't accessible." Players don't have to use them just because they're accessible. Same thing goes for stuff like health handicaps.

 

[Slamtastic]

Whatever side you fall on in the Gem debate, more options are never a bad thing.

Options are always a bad thing. They only lead to arguments between people who want to use one option, and those who want to use another.

 

[Kimosabae]

All Ono said was, "There's no modes where gems aren't accessible." Players don't have to use them just because they're accessible. Same thing goes for stuff like health handicaps.

http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/18/nycc-2011-ono-interview-roundup-sfxt-gems-cannot-be-disabled/

In any case, as much I hate the idea of the game not being able to breathe before the FGC comes to conclusions, the options to disable Gems need to be in there. They haven't convinced anyone they are intrinsic enough to the core gameplay that said gameplay would feel neutered without their presence.

If they truly were that intrinsic, they'd be much more than contrived bonuses like "Xtra damage on the third punch of a string" or whatever.

Options are always a bad thing. They only lead to arguments between people who want to use one option, and those who want to use another.

This is actually more brilliant than most are willing to give you credit for. But it only applies to the competitive community, really.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Capcom Unity Petition For Gem Free Option

Whatever side you fall on in the Gem debate, more options are never a bad thing.

These threads usually do well to get Capcom's attention and have brought changes before. Sign to show support.

thats not always true

 

[GrayFoxPL]

HOW DARE YOU?

You got your Ling in so you don't care about anyone else anymore.

Wow there! Nothing has been confirmed. Latest batch of "puzzle" trailers was so fucked up no one knows for sure.

 

[-PXG-]

Can't wait for the

Spoiler

possibly

inevitable season pass:

2400 points/ $30 upfront for a discount for all the future DLC for the game (that will probably cost, collectively, $45 or more).

I can totally see Capcom trolling subscribers by making gems the main component of each pack, perhaps, sprinkling a few characters, costumes and stages too.

Oh, the salty rage would be of astronomical proportions.

EDIT

Did I just read that there will be a couple of hundred gems in the game? Jesus lord. How is anyone supposed to keep track and differentiate between all of them.

 

[SapientWolf]

http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/18/nycc-2011-ono-interview-roundup-sfxt-gems-cannot-be-disabled/

In any case, as

That's what Shoryuken said. Ono's translator said that players can equip their fighters with gems before a round and gems apply in all modes. He never said that players must equip gems. But I get the impression that he would like to see them being used in tourney play.

 

[Professor Beef]

I clicked the link to the petition thread, but that's all the support I feel comfortable giving.

 

[Hitokage]

Options are always a bad thing. They only lead to arguments between people who want to use one option, and those who want to use another.

Like those arguments over using a timer in matches.

 

[QisTopTier]

Like those arguments over using a timer in matches.

I liked your first response better, but I was gonna suggest rise of the robots or ballz 3d

 

[Kimosabae]

Glad you edited that post Hitokage.

 

[Professor Beef]

Shouldn't have edited that, Hito. I like it the first time.

 

[-PXG-]

All Ono said was, "There's no modes where gems aren't accessible." Players don't have to use them just because they're accessible. Same thing goes for stuff like health handicaps.

That's like saying you don't have to use Xfactor, just because it's there. As if someone won't use it when they know they have a chance at coming back once activated.

 

[SapientWolf]

That's like saying you don't have to use Xfactor, just because it's there. As if someone won't use it when they know they have a chance at coming back once activated.

Not exactly, because it appears that gems are equipped prior to the match starting.

 

[-PXG-]

Not exactly, because it appears that gems are equipped prior to the match starting.

I guess in tournaments, they'll have rules that ban them altogether or players will decide amongst themselves whether they'll use them or not.

But online against randoms? Forget about it.

 

[Kimosabae]

Shouldn't have edited that, Hito. I like it the first time.

Original post wasn't charitable to Slam's actual point at all.