tkscz
Member
Wow these 2 make the game seem boring.
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Super Mario 3D World for Wii U
- Thread starter Darklord
- Start date
Wow these 2 make the game seem boring.
Thanks for posting this. Doesn't sound too good. :/
But it was a pain in the ass to pull off.
SporeCrawler
Member
Interesting because non of the games you mentioned sold 7 million units (no not even combined)
Donkey kong is unlikely to be a success when returns sold 6 million units?
They are also publishing wii fit u and wii party u this year. I guess your answer will be 0 copies will sell because those games are on ipad.
Odd to hear that... it wasn't for me. If anything I tended to overuse that move, roll-jumping my way through most levels and almost always using it to top the flagpole.
(Slightly off-topic: I also stopped picking up Tanooki suits partway through and never looked back; using those just slows down the platforming, it's only an optional crutch that I can't understand so many players using and then having the audacity to complain about difficulty.)
The way I see most people playing Mario games, it surprises me people even find the games as interesting as they do.
RawkHawk2010
Member
My problem with 3D World is that, multiplayer aside, it's a step back in pretty much every area from the last 3D console Mario.
The sterile atmosphere, the bland level-design, the crushing disappointment that is the lack of another Galaxy-caliber orchestrated score...the game just radiates missed opportunities from every area. Compare with Tropical Freeze, which so far looks like it could possibly have the best level-design, the best mechanics, and possibly even the best music the series has ever had. (Plus a way to incorporate 3D into Donkey Kong in a way that actually works!)
It's an evolution of the franchise. 3D World couldn't be further from that.
The "newest" power-ups? What makes Gold Mario or Propeller Hat Mario any "newer" than Cloud Mario?
The sterile atmosphere, the bland level-design, the crushing disappointment that is the lack of another Galaxy-caliber orchestrated score...the game just radiates missed opportunities from every area. Compare with Tropical Freeze, which so far looks like it could possibly have the best level-design, the best mechanics, and possibly even the best music the series has ever had. (Plus a way to incorporate 3D into Donkey Kong in a way that actually works!)
It's an evolution of the franchise. 3D World couldn't be further from that.
The "newest" power-ups? What makes Gold Mario or Propeller Hat Mario any "newer" than Cloud Mario?
From a controls standpoing 8-way makes a lot of sense for a isometric view game, since you can pick "lanes" and just go, without having to readjust from drifting off the given lane/path. Each of the 8 directions is predictable, and makes the control a lot more reliable, and less frustrating.
However, with a 3rd person view (where the camera follows behind the player), analog controls are a lot more critical, as you are always making adjustments left/right as you run forward.
For me, I miss the SM64 style game, I hope we can revisit that format again (I have galaxy, but it didn't really jive, seemed too disjointed, and too fantasy)
SCReuter
Member
Yuck. I'll take Tropical Freeze instead.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Eh, Tropical Freeze is my most anticipated game of the year besides The Wonderful 101 and I haven't seen anything in the level design that can be described as you have described it.
Will it be there in the final product???
Very likely but nothing too amazing as of yet.
darkazcura
Member
Uhh, no I'm going to have to disagree. Mario 64 is still the best Mario to control in my opinion. Galaxy feels like I'm moving through quick sand sometimes. Maybe the controls are "less precise" in 64, but his speed, agility, and height of jump make up for all of that. I honestly think it is the reason people do more speed runs of 64 than any other 3D Mario game. I played through Galaxy once and could never do it again because Mario feels like a chore to control sometimes (so slow). I am really excited for 3D World, but I think it's really odd that Mario's movement has regressed with each 3D game.
catstronaut
Member
Are we talking about the same game here? I think Tropical Freeze will be a great game, but it looks incredibly similar to Returns. And... 3D stuff was in Returns as well? Unless there are more recent vids and I've missed that you're talking about...
3D World looks like the pitch-perfect control of 3D Land married to the flair of Super Mario Galaxy, plus 4-player co-op for the first time ever in 3D Mario. Sounds like an evolution to me.
Yeah, I kinda agree with you there. Tropical Freeze looks (and plays, from the little time I had with it) great. 3D world doesn't look as exciting. But, I guess, we'll see.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Basically, what the developers are going for is a grand culmination of all the best ideas from all the other 3D Mario games as well as new ideas.
That's what one of the guys said in the E3 video.
He also said there are a ton of new ideas in the game and I'd trust this team as they are among the best in gaming.
If people think they have an idea of what's in store, I think that's way premature.
They now even have boss battles with variety it seems unlike 3D Land(I didn't mind those but they weren't amazing).
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Nintendo has a loyal fanbase but it isn't a stagnant constant. There surely are millions of fans who have amicably left the Nintendo stable for the bigger stream of software on the Sony and Microsoft platforms. Just because you loved Nintendo and the SNES or the N64 doesn't mean you are permanently bound to exclusively and permanently support them.
RawkHawk2010
Member
Yeah, that's why I said "possibly." I just know the first level looks fun as fuck and densely-packed in a way that makes me re-evaluate my standards for first levels in platformers.
Like any game it could miss expectations, but the point is that the aspiration is there. Conversely, for most areas in 3D World it feels like that same aspiration just...doesn't exist.
(If the only things deemed important for a Mario game in 2013 are where to place platforms and blocks, without bothering to actually craft a fun or immersive world to hold it all together...then count me out of this series. I'm done.)
What looks so incredibly similar about it beyond using the same engine (which most sequels do)? Returns was great but one of its biggest flaws is that it wasn't fully satisfying - and felt like a "tease" for what could follow. It lacked things like water levels, ice levels, more returning characters, an actually interesting group of villains (no Kremlings, but the vikings look comparatively awesome.), high-definition, a David Wise soundtrack...and with Tropical Freeze we're getting all that and more. It looks like the perfect sequel and doesn't really seem to be retreading any old ground at all. (Hence why Retro wanted to do a sequel so badly.)
And yeah, one of Tropical Freeze's main talking points is the "3D dynamic camera", as Tanabe calls it. Returns had some vague 3D scripted scenes where you would barrel blast around a statue or something, but the camera never moved with it and it didn't affect gameplay at all.
But now it changes the gameplay entirely. We've only seen it used for barrel blasting so far, but I'm hoping to see it pop up in things like minecart levels too.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
We differ there then as I don't play Mario games for cohesion or an immersive world, I play them for obstacle course levels.
I didn't think much of Galaxy was very cohesive either.
hopefully, although we've seen four levels only. First half, if there's any, will feature much more than that
This!
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if the next 3D mario took the format of Mario64 again, make a new HD Castle with grounds to explore, and have peach take delivery of a bunch of new paintings to explore... You get the "levels" with the paintings, so it doesn't have to be one connected world, but each painting can be it's own mini world to explore, that format was great!
If Mario is going to be in 3dland format forever, Zelda better be the most epic exploring adventure ever to make up for it!
megabytecr
Member
Hey lets take this Mario for what it is, it is obvious the proper Mario is coming later, but I have no doubt in my mind that this coming game will be very good.
I... Am afraid it's less actually. As someone that bought every Nintendo console since the NES, thought the Virtual Boy was brilliant, just couldn't get my hands on it before it died and defended the Wii until the end, I'd even consider Mario Galaxy the best game ever... But I can't get into the WU, haven't bought it and am starting to think I might never. I loved Nintendo for the inspiration and, well, I'm not seeing it anymore. W101 is the only interesting game, but it's not Nintendo developed and according to the reviewers has serious flaws.
I know this is post 74941 on the subject, but as Nintendo fanboy it's too dear to my heart
. I endlessly respect Tokyo EAD, but everything I've seen about this game looks like dross.i dont know why people keep saying this
What stage is denial? Is acceptance coming soon?
breakfuss
Member
As meh as the gameplay looks in these, they at least run smooth as hell. i hate all the fps whoring that goes on around here, but it really can make a world of difference.
boyshine
Member
Because it's "3D World", the sequel to "3D Land"; a game that was specifically made to be a cross between the gameplay from Galaxy and New SMB.
False dichotomy. I play Mario games for obstacle levels in cohesive, immersive worlds.
Freezie KO
Banned
Game looks... fun. But 3D Mario platformers used to be more than just fun. They were innovative, console-defining, creative, and special. This game is not special.
It's a direct sequel to a game that shoe-horned in NSMB elements (3 Star Coins, 2D style gameplay, timer, flagpole, a fucking run button) into 3D Mario for the admitted purpose of appealing (read: selling) to a greater audience. And now we have the sequel with shoe-horned in multiplayer. Offline, natch.
Fun? Sure, but it's an iterative sequel from a series that used to pride itself on being more than iterative, but actually showpieces of the console.
It's a direct sequel to a game that shoe-horned in NSMB elements (3 Star Coins, 2D style gameplay, timer, flagpole, a fucking run button) into 3D Mario for the admitted purpose of appealing (read: selling) to a greater audience. And now we have the sequel with shoe-horned in multiplayer. Offline, natch.
Fun? Sure, but it's an iterative sequel from a series that used to pride itself on being more than iterative, but actually showpieces of the console.
And World 6 looks way too easy.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
what happened in here...
And? Is something supposed to follow from this? Or do I need some amazing leap in logic to come to some kind of conclusion?
So it's like a Mario Sunshine. Seems good enough.
We got a handheld sequel instead of Mario 64 sequel.
CrimsonCommie
Member
This game looks amazing.
and it cant be a proper mainline Mario because?
Freezie KO
Banned
Not at all. Sunshine was very original. The FLUDD fundamentally changed how you played the game. The hover nozzle effected every instance of platforming, and the spray nozzle was the basis of many of the missions.
In fact, the game often had more "open world"-style missions for coins and stars because they wanted you to use FLUDD. This also led to more playground style levels in general.
Sunshine followed the idea that you had to get a Star at the end of the level/mission, but it was definitely its own unique game, despite its flaws. 3D World introduces what? A cat suit, that because you can lose it, must be optional by design.
Neff
Member
But mastering it is.
To me 3D World is a step forward for 3D Mario.
Past 3D Mario games have been more like adventure games. Moreso with 64 and Sunshine you had big open levels and a set of tasks you had to do in those levels to get stars. Some of those tasks were cool, a lot were filler. Sometimes you'd get 1 star, have to leave the level, and then the next star was just 5 feet past the place where you got the last star. Doing things this way also reduces the amount of level diversity you can have, since you limit it to a handful of really big levels.
Galaxy had a few levels like that, but the majority were linear and more platforming focused. A lot of the time you would be forced down new paths so that the levels were essentially new each time. They had 5 stars maximum in a galaxy, most only had 3 stars. Levels weren't used as much and they had more levels. The focus on platforming was more in line with an actual adaptation of Mario in 3D that past 3D Marios had lacked.
Now we have 3D World. It's following Galaxy's linear level structure, but it makes each level its own thing, meaning we'll have 80+ individual levels (though some could be altered clones of each other). The game focuses even more on platforming which hopefully means the game will be more challenging. The lack of the gravity mechanic should make the platforming less forgiving. The levels are huge, vibrant, and gorgeous. Even though platforming is finally taking a front seat in 3D Mario, adventure elements will most likely still exist. Characters can pick up balls and stuff so they'll probably have to use that for something. There's been stuff like Kuribo's shoe ice skating and that water dragon level that is essentially a vastly improved version of the secret slide type levels from past 3D Marios. They've also added boost pads to some levels so there's a new type of level where you have to run at a frantic pace. The game looks great and the ultimate evolution of 3D Mario. The "sidescroller" argument is ridiculous. This game is just more of a 3D platformer than past 3D Marios were, since it actually focuses on platforming. It seems basically like the game Mario 64 should have been in the first place.
I think people are mostly upset because they want an adventure game rather than a platformer, but we've seen no evidence that it won't have adventure game elements like Galaxy did. Galaxy didn't really use its space theme much more than as an excuse to have a wacky variety of random level concepts and we've seen that with 3D Land (though held back by hardware) and 3D World seems to be following suit. I don't think there will be a "grass world" and a "desert world"; they'll just throw level themes out randomly throughout the worlds. The one boss stage we've seen seems to have a circus theme going for it, so maybe we'll see some of that in other levels. Where does this kind of level fit in the "bland NSMB trope" idea:
and we've seen lots of variety in the trailers.
There is nothing preventing them from putting in whatever level themes and concepts they want.
The game looks great, it looks fun, it looks challenging.
Past 3D Mario games have been more like adventure games. Moreso with 64 and Sunshine you had big open levels and a set of tasks you had to do in those levels to get stars. Some of those tasks were cool, a lot were filler. Sometimes you'd get 1 star, have to leave the level, and then the next star was just 5 feet past the place where you got the last star. Doing things this way also reduces the amount of level diversity you can have, since you limit it to a handful of really big levels.
Galaxy had a few levels like that, but the majority were linear and more platforming focused. A lot of the time you would be forced down new paths so that the levels were essentially new each time. They had 5 stars maximum in a galaxy, most only had 3 stars. Levels weren't used as much and they had more levels. The focus on platforming was more in line with an actual adaptation of Mario in 3D that past 3D Marios had lacked.
Now we have 3D World. It's following Galaxy's linear level structure, but it makes each level its own thing, meaning we'll have 80+ individual levels (though some could be altered clones of each other). The game focuses even more on platforming which hopefully means the game will be more challenging. The lack of the gravity mechanic should make the platforming less forgiving. The levels are huge, vibrant, and gorgeous. Even though platforming is finally taking a front seat in 3D Mario, adventure elements will most likely still exist. Characters can pick up balls and stuff so they'll probably have to use that for something. There's been stuff like Kuribo's shoe ice skating and that water dragon level that is essentially a vastly improved version of the secret slide type levels from past 3D Marios. They've also added boost pads to some levels so there's a new type of level where you have to run at a frantic pace. The game looks great and the ultimate evolution of 3D Mario. The "sidescroller" argument is ridiculous. This game is just more of a 3D platformer than past 3D Marios were, since it actually focuses on platforming. It seems basically like the game Mario 64 should have been in the first place.
I think people are mostly upset because they want an adventure game rather than a platformer, but we've seen no evidence that it won't have adventure game elements like Galaxy did. Galaxy didn't really use its space theme much more than as an excuse to have a wacky variety of random level concepts and we've seen that with 3D Land (though held back by hardware) and 3D World seems to be following suit. I don't think there will be a "grass world" and a "desert world"; they'll just throw level themes out randomly throughout the worlds. The one boss stage we've seen seems to have a circus theme going for it, so maybe we'll see some of that in other levels. Where does this kind of level fit in the "bland NSMB trope" idea:
and we've seen lots of variety in the trailers.
There is nothing preventing them from putting in whatever level themes and concepts they want.
The game looks great, it looks fun, it looks challenging.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Sadly, because it's not the Mario a lot of us wanted.
I know, in this thread, I've done this dance (or something similar to it) before. But I'll say it again. 3D World introduces what? Multiplayer. In which you might follow up with something like "but multiplayer is now a staple of the NMB series it's not introducing something new". To which I'd say something like "the FLUDD (and in particular the hover nozzle) from Sunshine is a 3d Mario interpretation of the Raccoon Trail or Cape from a 2d Mario. Jumping up in dimensions (not surprisingly) has a huge effect on how we interpret things. So a 3d Mario multiplayer would indeed be new".
Then you might list some of the finer details about Sunshine in which I'll always respond with " WE HAVEN"T PLAYED THE GAME YET!". How are we to know what it does or doesn't have?
GuessMyUserName
Member
I can't for the life of me understand people say 3D World brings nothing new and they want a game like the other 3D Marios. It just... completely doesn't make any sense to me. 3D World is something much much different from what we usually have - is it like to 3D Land? Sure, but that's it. We've got plenty of 2D Mario, plenty of 3D Mario, but we're not allowed to have 2 of this new type of Mario? You don't see what being a console game can bring to this? How it fleshes out the game to provide what could greatly be THE most greatest form of multiplayer Mario we've ever had, one that's in 3D, as we've never ever seen before?
I greatly do understand people saying they don't care about the multiplayer and that's why they want a more "3D" game - that is an entirely acceptable reason to be disappointed in this game. I too want a new solo 3D Mario because I love what they've done with them, it's a much different feel from both 2D and 3D Land-type games. But that does NOT mean 3D World brings nothing new to the table when in fact it truly is the first of its kind in a lot of ways.
If Nintendo next year announces Super Mario 3D World 2: Yoshi's Island, THEN I would complain. But let's see what they can do with this one game first and just be happy for what it provides for us instead of being sour about what game it isn't.
I greatly do understand people saying they don't care about the multiplayer and that's why they want a more "3D" game - that is an entirely acceptable reason to be disappointed in this game. I too want a new solo 3D Mario because I love what they've done with them, it's a much different feel from both 2D and 3D Land-type games. But that does NOT mean 3D World brings nothing new to the table when in fact it truly is the first of its kind in a lot of ways.
If Nintendo next year announces Super Mario 3D World 2: Yoshi's Island, THEN I would complain. But let's see what they can do with this one game first and just be happy for what it provides for us instead of being sour about what game it isn't.
Freezie KO
Banned
Local multiplayer is an entirely optional game mode, unusable for many. It's not a new gameplay mechanic.
As for Sunshine, you're being reductive by saying the FLUDD is the same as the raccoon tail or cape. FLUDD doesn't slow your fall, it gives you hover based on a limited resource mechanic. It doesn't give you flight and requires no momentum to use. It can give you a rocket boost high up in the air. And the spray nozzle is a shooting mechanic, unlike either of the power-ups you mentioned.
What FLUDD did share with the raccoon and cape is that it fundamentally altered the level design in 3D Mario, differentiating it from the other games. The only way multiplayer fundamentally alters this game is by making it easier because the platforms have to be larger to accommodate more players at once.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
My main concern is with 3D World being a good game, therefore I'm interested in whether it will deal with 3D Land's flaw which is lack of difficulty until the second half of the game.
This is in fact something Nintendo seems to do with modern Mario games - increase difficulty for direct sequels. Galaxy 2 was arguably a bit harder than Galaxy on average. NSMB Wii was harder than NSMB, and NSMB U is harder than the Wii game.
If 3D World presents a jump in difficulty and level design complexity comparable to going from say, NSMB to NSMB U, there's a lot of potential there. 3D Land is a great take on blending 2D and 3D Mario, but it is much too tepid until the later parts of the game. It was clearly trying to avoid scaring off people who found playing 3D games overwhelming and confusing.
This is in fact something Nintendo seems to do with modern Mario games - increase difficulty for direct sequels. Galaxy 2 was arguably a bit harder than Galaxy on average. NSMB Wii was harder than NSMB, and NSMB U is harder than the Wii game.
If 3D World presents a jump in difficulty and level design complexity comparable to going from say, NSMB to NSMB U, there's a lot of potential there. 3D Land is a great take on blending 2D and 3D Mario, but it is much too tepid until the later parts of the game. It was clearly trying to avoid scaring off people who found playing 3D games overwhelming and confusing.
Thanks for posting. I wasn't a huge fan of 3D world's level design so the only thing that sounded appealing at all was that the boss battle was decent.
Vampirolol
Member
I know this is going to be my GOTY.
It may not be the Mario you wanted, but it may well be the Mario you need.
Sorry, I just had to post that.
I think if Super Mario 3D World had the same exact levels, but with a regular free form camera like the previous 3D console Mario games, I would be way more excited for this. I don't know why, but just have it stuck in an isometric view (even if the camera is given far more freedom than in 3D Land) makes it feel...cheap?