SMG has tight linear platforming more often than not, and you can see how that design philosophy grew with SMG2/3DLand/3DWorld.
SMG and Mario 64 have some similarities but their differences lead to vastly different gameplay styles.
New Donk City is obviously not the hub.This hurts my brain. But I really can't wait to find out the story to this. Maybe we haven't even SEEN the hub world yet. For all we know, New Donk is just another branch like the Mexico world and the food world. I'm not gonna assume NDC is the hub. I don't actually want NDC to be the hub. As long as it's a hub though with portals like Mario 64 and Sunshine, which seems to be what they're currently implying.
I've been saying for years Galaxy is closer to 3D World than the others and I got so much crap for it. So yeah.
Does it though? I'd call it light platforming.
It's the equivalent of something like SMB3's very first stage.
Fun because it's inherently engaging. Not because it's challenging.
Through large sections of SMG you cannot fall of the planet That doesn't exactly scream tight linear platforming.
I'll give you an example and it will not be unique. Battlerock Galaxy starts you off collecting things. That ain't pure. You slingshot from platform to platform using gravity mechanics. The section poses no challenge. Then you go to the next section, where it is a legitimate linear section. But there's no precision, because you cannot fall of the platform. There's no danger, because of the health meter. And then for section 3, you figure out that you need to guide the bullet bill into the cage and then execute the task. Again, that's not pure, precise, linear, tight, focused or any other adjective.
What it is, in essence, is the same exact thing as guiding the Snowman's head to his body in Cool Cool Mountain.
Figure out what to do, and complete a simple objective.
Collect things, Solve Puzzles, Fight Bosses, Engage in light platforming.
That's what SMG and SM64 are, with SM64 being sandboxy and open ended on top of it.
Having said that, fuck Galaxy, the cult of the tight focused level design can have it, and its expansion pack.
It's all about the Odyssey now and the age of freedom it will bring.
Galaxy is like a 90% linear game that hides it with fancy presentation.
Nintendo once sang a different tune and grouped SMG in with 64. And rightly so. The gameplay is identical.
The typical star of SMG has you collecting things, solving puzzles, engaging in light platforming and fighting a boss.
It's the exact mix you'll find in SM64's courses.
SMG is not a pure platformer. It doesn't require precision. It isn't difficult. It doesn't carry harsh penalties for failing a jump.
SM64 has more pure platforming in its final two stages than SMG has in its entirety.
SMG took 64 concepts, extracted them from its open worlds, and placed them in sequence, one after the other, and that made 64's gameplay palatable to people who previously disliked it.
And as for your examples, SMG incorporate cannons into its gameplay, just like SM64. In SMG, you defeat enemies to earn keys or stars, just like tangling with chain chomp. There is almost nothing in SM64 that wasn't brought over into SMG. Maybe the streamlined nature of the courses disguised the fact. Maybe eleven years later the gameplay was improved to a degree that its origins were no longer clear.
But nothing will ever change the fact that SMG plays nothing like 3D Land. Because it has a different move set with a different gameplay mix with a different level of required precision to advance throughout the level.
And it was perfect. 3D World felt like way too much of a simplification. Or maybe it was just more honest about what it was.Galaxy is like a 90% linear game that hides it with fancy presentation.
Go Play the first painting in SM64 and then go play the first level in SMG and you will immediately notice the difference.
SMG smartly moves you on linear pathing while making you feel like you have more freedom to explore than you actually do.
Well the prologue level in SMG has you hopping from planet to planet to fight goombas to open the way to the next planetoid that you cannot fall from and you end the level by stepping on switches to change their colors.
The first 'real' level has you visiting more planets that you're stuck to, collecting more things, stepping on more switches, negotiating some of the simplest platforming obstacles ever invented, fighting enemies with your fists, and then fighting a boss.
The same things I did in SM64's first stage.
Mario 64 and Sunshine put you in open world style levels that you replay repeatedly to find stars hidden in them. Loading a different mission may load a challenge somewhere on the maps that wouldn't be there outside that mission, but the map is largely the same.
Galaxy's levels may share a starting platform in groups of 3, but every level is a separate linear obstacle course with a star at the end. Loading each mission loads completely different levels beyond the starting platforms, and even then the starting platforms are often changed significantly each mission. Collection generally locks you to a small area of the course and lets you progress to the next section once completed. 3DLand and 3DWorld feature this same kind of collection, as well as finding star medals and green stars hidden in the levels, which are required to beat the game.
Huh.
I always thought both Galaxy 1 and 2 were more like 64 and sunshine. At least galaxy more...
I still think Galaxy 1 and 2 had more gameplay diversity than the other Super Mario 3D series. Yes, they were mostly linear but they did have some larger worlds enough to explore than SM3DW's platforming on steroids.
Galaxy 2 is definitely a bridge directly to 3D World.I've been saying for years Galaxy is closer to 3D World than the others and I got so much crap for it. So yeah.
when you were playing Mario 64Well the prologue level in SMG has you hopping from planet to planet to fight goombas to open the way to the next planetoid that you cannot fall from and you end the level by stepping on switches to change their colors.
The first 'real' level has you visiting more planets that you're stuck to, collecting more things, stepping on more switches, negotiating some of the simplest platforming obstacles ever invented, fighting enemies with your fists, and then fighting a boss.
The same things I did in SM64's first stage.
He fits inside plumbing. He may be an a unidentified aquatic parasite.I love the idea that Mario isn't actually human. It's making me question the whole series now.
It's an amazingly satisfying reveal.
I still think Galaxy 1 and 2 had more gameplay diversity than the other Super Mario 3D series. Yes, they were mostly linear but they did have some larger worlds enough to explore than SM3DW's platforming on steroids.
The first 'real' level has you visiting more planets that you're stuck to, collecting more things, stepping on more switches, negotiating some of the simplest platforming obstacles ever invented, fighting enemies with your fists, and then fighting a boss.
The same things I did in SM64's first stage.
Drilling down to these concepts misses the forest for the trees. You can make similar concept strings with some 3D World levels, that doesnt mean 64 and 3D World are similar.
I think the original Galaxy game was a bridge between the Mario 64 style and the 3D World style. Galaxy 2 was pretty firmly in that second style though IMO.
Mario 64 and Sunshine put you in open world style levels that you replay repeatedly to find stars hidden in them. Loading a different mission may load a challenge somewhere on the maps that wouldn't be there outside that mission, but the map is largely the same.
Galaxy's levels may share a starting platform in groups of 3, but every level is a separate linear obstacle course with a star at the end. Loading each mission loads completely different levels beyond the starting platforms, and even then the starting platforms are often changed significantly each mission. Collection generally locks you to a small area of the course and lets you progress to the next section once completed. 3DLand and 3DWorld feature this same kind of collection, as well as finding star medals and green stars hidden in the levels, which are required to beat the game.
This is why, even though I feel they're still classics, I've never felt compelled to rank the Galaxies up there with SM64.Galaxy is like a 90% linear game that hides it with fancy presentation.
So exciting. And to think that 3D Mario usually look weakest at the start and appear dramatically better by the time the game releases. If the game looks this good NOW, and it's not out until Holiday 2017... Imagine how epic the final product will be. :-O
when you were playing Mario 64
did you also run around, exploring different areas of the map, familiarizing yourself with the environment?
did you experiment with your moveset to reach new destinations on your own?
did you forge something of your own path toward the objective?
did you take note of other objectives in the area that you couldn't reach yet, but may come back to later?
Everything feels so FRESH.
I'm getting "Alice in Wonderland" vibes from a number of things, most notably the hat motif and white rabbit bosses. Not only do they remind me of, well, White Rabbit, but they're dressed like the Mad Hatter.
All of the surreal places feel like a trip down the rabbit hole, too. New Donk City looks like a photorealistic NYC circa 1980. The Mexico-themed world has a day-night cycle, living sphinxes and Day of the Dead imagery. The jungle world is dark and industrialized, with sprinkler robots and rusty rigs. And then you have the abstract food world with its highly stylized low-poly graphics and bright pastel colors home to living forks, a featherless turkey, and Hammer Bros that wear chef hats and throw frying pans.
To quote "The Nightmare Before Christmas:" What... is... THIS? Whatever it is, it's magical. Imagine if someone had leaked this (like an actual description of the levels, not just the name). It's something I can still hardly believe, even with this amazing trailer at my fingertips.
So exciting. And to think that 3D Mario usually look weakest at the start and appear dramatically better by the time the game releases. If the game looks this good NOW, and it's not out until Holiday 2017... Imagine how epic the final product will be. :-O
The Galaxy games, 3D Land and 3D World are great... but their linear course-based nature makes it feel like you're only visiting their worlds, rather than truly inhabiting them.
With SM64 and Sunshine, you were given a vast playground and you felt free to spend as much time exploring them as you wanted. You could pore over the same corners again and again, and through repetition create a sense of intimacy, approaching the same places and spaces from many different angles.
It creates a sense of "home." I look forward to Odyssey allowing me to get similarly cozy with these weird new worlds.
SM64 was the first stab at the formula, to be fair. With Odyssey, I think they may be bringing together the best of both worlds. Perhaps we'll see highly explorable worlds with many unique branches containing focused gauntlets for each objective. The exciting part is it'll feel like a grand adventure again since each world will be immersive in its openness and scale.I prefer linear courses because you get more content out of them. Each "star" is its own completely unique level and set of challenges.
The open world style features a lot of filler to make up for lack of content. You have to traverse the same challenges repeatedly to reach goals you could have reached before but the game makes you start over from the starting point after each goal instead of letting you continue to the next. One of the worst examples of this is Tall Tall Mountain, where the first mission is to climb to the top of the mountain, the second mission is to climb to the top of the mountain where a monkey now is and will give you a star if you follow him, another star is in a waterfall at the top of the mountain, and another star is hidden at the end of slide accessed via an invisible portal near the top of the mountain. Another star is a red coin hunt at the start. All of that would be a single level in a linear type game. The top of the mountain has the goal pole. On the way to the goal pole you can catch the monkey for a green star, find a green star behind the waterfall, find a hidden challenge level for a green star, or collect green coins for a green star or red coins for a powerup or key coins to open progression. And then there would be 80 more levels like that instead of 14.
I prefer linear courses because you get more content out of them. Each "star" is its own completely unique level and set of challenges.
The open world style features a lot of filler to make up for lack of content. You have to traverse the same challenges repeatedly to reach goals you could have reached before but the game makes you start over from the starting point after each goal instead of letting you continue to the next. One of the worst examples of this is Tall Tall Mountain, where the first mission is to climb to the top of the mountain, the second mission is to climb to the top of the mountain where a monkey now is and will give you a star if you follow him, another star is in a waterfall at the top of the mountain, and another star is hidden at the end of slide accessed via an invisible portal near the top of the mountain. Another star is a red coin hunt at the start. All of that would be a single level in a linear type game. The top of the mountain has the goal pole. On the way to the goal pole you can catch the monkey for a green star, find a green star behind the waterfall, find a hidden challenge level for a green star, or collect green coins for a green star or red coins for a powerup or key coins to open progression. And then there would be 80 more levels like that instead of 14.
Everything feels so FRESH.
I'm getting "Alice in Wonderland" vibes from a number of things, most notably the hat motif and white rabbit bosses. Not only do they remind me of, well, White Rabbit, but they're dressed like the Mad Hatter.
All of the surreal places feel like a trip down the rabbit hole, too. New Donk City looks like a photorealistic NYC circa 1980. The Mexico-themed world has a day-night cycle, living sphinxes and Day of the Dead imagery. The jungle world is dark and industrialized, with sprinkler robots and rusty rigs. And then you have the abstract food world with its highly stylized low-poly graphics and bright pastel colors — home to living forks, a featherless turkey, and Hammer Bros that wear chef hats and throw frying pans.
To quote "The Nightmare Before Christmas:" What... is... THIS? Whatever it is, it's magical. Imagine if someone had leaked this (like an actual description of the levels, not just the name). It's something I can still hardly believe, even with this amazing trailer at my fingertips.
So exciting. And to think that 3D Mario usually look weakest at the start and appear dramatically better by the time the game releases. If the game looks this good NOW, and it's not out until Holiday 2017... Imagine how epic the final product will be. :-O
What you just said is everything Nintendo said it isn't. Which is why Galaxy is in the top section and not the bottom. Galaxy is more like SMB3 and World and Yoshi's Island in that you choose a stage, go play it, and come back.New Donk City is obviously not the hub.
Am I the only person here who's played Super Mario Galaxy 2 at all? I honestly don't understand why anyone assumes that NDC is the hub world and not just another level. It's painfully obvious that New Donk City is just another level xp
The Hat Ship is probably the world select. You stop at a location, fuck around for a while, complete some objectives, return to the hat ship, and leave, I reckon
Yet, a good bunch of people are still kinda nay about it, which seems pretty much a guaranteed thing with 3D Mario lately. Actually pretty exciting what they'll do with the next trailer.Everything feels so FRESH.
I'm getting "Alice in Wonderland" vibes from a number of things, most notably the hat motif and white rabbit bosses. Not only do they remind me of, well, White Rabbit, but they're dressed like the Mad Hatter.
All of the surreal places feel like a trip down the rabbit hole, too. New Donk City looks like a photorealistic NYC circa 1980. The Mexico-themed world has a day-night cycle, living sphinxes and Day of the Dead imagery. The jungle world is dark and industrialized, with sprinkler robots and rusty rigs. And then you have the abstract food world with its highly stylized low-poly graphics and bright pastel colors home to living forks, a featherless turkey, and Hammer Bros that wear chef hats and throw frying pans.
To quote "The Nightmare Before Christmas:" What... is... THIS? Whatever it is, it's magical. Imagine if someone had leaked this (like an actual description of the levels, not just the name). It's something I can still hardly believe, even with this amazing trailer at my fingertips.
So exciting. And to think that 3D Mario usually look weakest at the start and appear dramatically better by the time the game releases. If the game looks this good NOW, and it's not out until Holiday 2017... Imagine how epic the final product will be. :-O
What you just said is everything Nintendo said it isn't. Which is why Galaxy is in the top section and not the bottom. Galaxy is more like SMB3 and World and Yoshi's Island in that you choose a stage, go play it, and come back.
They're saying Odyssey is more like Mario 64 in that you not only get separate stages, but a whole big open hub world like Sunshine and 64 had. Which is why it's in the bottom section.
What we need to know is what exactly this hub will be and how it will connect to each world. In Mario 64 you had a castle full of paintings, and Mario could go into the paintings and play around in their world. In Sunshine, you'd actually go visit each world by finding its transport location in Delfino Plaza.
If it's just the Hat Ship that takes you to all the places, it'll be disappointing because it'll just be the same as Galaxy 2 was, which is what Nintendo has specifically said it isn't.
Looks great, but lol at December.
Nintendo still hasn't figured out HD development.