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[wuth]

I got the chance to play on Wednesday at E3 and I wanted to share my thoughts. Most of my colleagues don't care about Smash nor do they wish to discuss it with me. Maybe someone here can chime in on my findings.

I haven't played much Brawl since college and today my Wii is exclusively dedicated to Project M. Needless to say, there was a huge adjustment period. Many of the E3 guests were quick to pickup the game and start playing, but I had a very hard time getting warmed up.

Some thoughts:

I was frustrated by the speed. I think this is something I could get used to but I often felt totally helpless when approaching a 3 person pileup or even a lone player. Comboing was difficult in this sort of environment, but I think I see where people are coming from when they say comboing is easier here than in brawl. Hits felt more solid and more difficult to escape. I asked some people around me what they thought of the speed and they seemed largely confused by my frustration. They suggested choosing a faster character but I was left feeling underwhelmed again.

I found it extremely difficult to get a KO. People were regularly recovering from massive smashes well into the 150% range. Perhaps I simply couldn't find the proper kill moves, but it was frustrating watching Bowser and Little Mac consistently win the free-for-all matches through brawn alone. Speaking of Little Mac, it's just plain unfun fighting him on flat, no-fall stages.

Jumping feels terrible. I don't know what it is but the fall speed and floatiness made it difficult for me to approach with aerial attacks. I played nearly every character, and on the whole I just felt completely unsafe leaving the ground. I'm not a great smasher, but this element will not stop bothering me.

I also had the honor of playing against mew2king. He refused to give me an opinion on the game then played keep away Kirby and easily took all of our lunch money. Very frustrating to fight, but I chalk it up to me being a trash player and him goofing on us. I just couldn't chase him down and each time I would initiate he would blast me with a hammer/smash when I would make contact. I was Trainer during the match, for what that's worth.

The new graphical elements look great. I love the art direction so far. Legibility was a bit of a problem on the 3DS, but it's not a deal breaker.


So though I left the convention hall thirsting for more Smash I was also highly skeptical. Opinions seemed split among my most trusted sources, but perhaps I'm just 'not getting it.' Anything in my reading of the game stand out as just plain incorrect? Or can anyone expand upon some of my observations?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Abomasnow confirmed to be pokeball pokemon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...feature=player_detailpage&v=aJcwY_7oiXI#t=249

 

[Beelzebufo]

Maybe, but I think it seems odd Rosalina wasn't on the first list considering all the other characters were ones revealed early on. She was revealed before Little Mac, seems odd she wasn't on the first list.




But if Sakurai was told by the Pokemon Company about an entirely unrevealed Pokemon, surely they would have mentioned that they'd be hyping up Mewtwo as well?

One thing that interests me about this is it suggests Shulk probably wasn't included due to his worldwide popularity, rather he was probably given a space before Xenoblade took off in the west.

This is because she was presumably never planned for an E3 reveal. You're looking too much into it.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

This is because she was presumably never planned for an E3 reveal. You're looking too much into it.

I'm just saying I've heard people claim the Gematsuk leaker said he mistook Rosalina for a Peach alt.

I was half-joking about mistaking Takamaru for Chrom though.

 

[FSLink]

Even if you shrink the pictures a bit, 48 tiles is the only amount that fits on both the Wii U (12x4) and 3DS (8x6) interfaces.


You never know. An entirely new Pokémon is a much bigger deal than deciding to market an old Pokémon again.

That's a good point about the 3DS tiles. And if you shrink it too much they'd be unreadable. So I guess it's pretty unlikely.

 

[Qurupeke]

We have no reason to believe that. All we know is that he was considered for cuts, and adding him would make the number 48. Therefore, it's likely he's cut.

And why they didn't cut Wolf, Jigglypuff, ROB or any other character? Please don't state speculation and personal opinions as fact.

 

[Tan]

Abomasnow confirmed to be pokeball pokemon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...feature=player_detailpage&v=aJcwY_7oiXI#t=249

Yay! Best pokemon confirmed!

 

[FSLink]

And why they didn't cut Wolf, Jigglypuff, ROB or any other character? Please don't state speculation and personal opinions as fact.

He's going off the rumors. He's also not stating it as fact, he just said Lucas is likely due to the leak saying that there's been internal debate about keeping him over Ness or not.

 

[PreyingShark]

I also had the honor of playing against mew2king. He refused to give me an opinion on the game then played keep away Kirby and easily took all of our lunch money. Very frustrating to fight, but I chalk it up to me being a trash player and him goofing on us. I just couldn't chase him down and each time I would initiate he would blast me with a hammer/smash when I would make contact. I was Trainer during the match, for what that's worth.

Ah, if M2K was at E3 then he must have been one of the substitute players.

And lol, of course M2K would do that.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

And why they didn't cut Wolf, Jigglypuff, ROB or any other character? Please don't state speculation and personal opinions as fact.

The fact is overall Mother is one of the weaker franchises in Smash.

Star Fox is still decently known (although I agree I could see Wolf gone) and has a revival coming next year it seems.

Jigglypuff just got a new type and is a Pokemon, they'll always win roster count.

R.O.B. is unique.

Fact is, Lucas is the lowest man on the totem pole.

 

[Beelzebufo]

And why they didn't cut Wolf, Jigglypuff, ROB or any other character? Please don't state speculation and personal opinions as fact.

Why would they cut those characters? All we know is that Lucas was considered to be cut, and based on the select screen it looks like there are 4 cuts. Lucas makes the most sense.

 

[georly]

Abomasnow confirmed to be pokeball pokemon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...feature=player_detailpage&v=aJcwY_7oiXI#t=249

Thanks. Giffed

 

[TheSlySoul]

I added a DLC toggle to my select screen.

Nice, here is my mock-up of the line-up:

Imagine Mii Fighter, Shooter, Swordsman in the three slots. That is how I predict it.

Edit: Going for the 3DS version. Wii U version I have no clue the amount of rows.

 

[theprodigy]

Ah, if M2K was at E3 then he must have been one of the substitute players.

And lol, of course M2K would do that.

M2K playing lame, shocking news /s

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Thanks. Giffed

He seems...sort of unfinished, just the weird way he stands there.

Also using Ice Punch randomly is a bit odd since usually Pokemon just use one attack.

 

[Loco4Coco]

Thanks. Giffed

Yes Obamasnow!

 

[emb]

Impressions

Sounds pretty similar to my Best Buy experience. I didn't find jumping to be all that awful; rather, I was kinda surprised that if felt good. The basic jump, falling, running felt a little faster than Brawl.

Having a hard time KOing was really noticeable. I noticed this most often when I'd get hit, expecting to die. Shocked, I would live through 3 or 4 hits that I thought would kill me. The first match I played, I neither died nor got a KO. I've seen the theory floating around that it's mostly due to stale moves, but it would happen with items and things too. I got the feeling that the blast zones for the stage were just really big.

Hits also felt somewhat ineffective in general. Even if I wasn't going to land on the ground, it didn't feel like attacking into other players fighting ever worked out much in my favor. Maybe it was just the characters I went with, but Mega Man especially seemed this way.

Ah, if M2K was at E3 then he must have been one of the substitute players.

And lol, of course M2K would do that.

The way I understood it, only Tafo and Fiction were subs. I think M2K and Armada were just there with CT or EMP.

 

[Qurupeke]

He's going off the rumors. He's also not stating it as fact, he just said Lucas is likely due to the leak saying that there's been internal debate about keeping him over Ness or not.

Still, I can't believe people are even talking about cut characters without joking. We live at an age where they can add a character a year later via DLC. Characters like Ridley may have a problem joining the roster because of a complex design, but veterans are pretty much complete. I really hope I'm not the only one seeing it that way, it's a shame cutting a character. I prefer a clone rather than a cut.

Also, could someone explain what does the rumour exactly suggest?

 

[Kor of Memory]

Nice, here is my mock-up of the line-up:

Imagine Mii Fighter, Shooter, Swordsman in the three slots. That is how I predict it.

I like the 4 rows better, but I feel pretty confident in Mii only having 1 slot. Though I expect it to work like Pokemon Trainer and Zelda/Sheik did in Brawl where you could click on 1 of the 3 that you wanted to use in the lower portrait.

 

[Tan]

I found it extremely difficult to get a KO. People were regularly recovering from massive smashes well into the 150% range. Perhaps I simply couldn't find the proper kill moves, but it was frustrating watching Bowser and Little Mac consistently win the free-for-all matches through brawn alone. Speaking of Little Mac, it's just plain unfun fighting him on flat, no-fall stages.

Regarding the crazy recovery, I played two games with mario and I never used his up special once. I was knocked off screen and able to return with 1 cape and 1 jump. It's really crazy.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Still, I can't believe people are even talking about cut characters without joking. We live at an age where they can add a character a year later via DLC. Characters like Ridley may have a problem joining the roster because of a complex design, but veterans are pretty much complete. I really hope I'm not the only one seeing it that way, it's a shame cutting a character. I prefer a clone rather than a cut.

Also, could someone explain what does the rumour exactly suggest?

I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas was DLC, in talking about him being cut from the starting roster.

And just the remaining three newcomers, the fact that Lucas might be cut, and that post launch DLC is planned.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I like the 4 rows better, but I feel pretty confident in Mii only having 1 slot. Though I expect it to work like Pokemon Trainer and Zelda/Sheik did in Brawl where you could click on 1 of the 3 that you wanted to use in the lower portrait.

Could be possible. If that is the case, then you can shift over a few things. Just put Wolf and R.O.B. in two of the spots

 

[TheSlySoul]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas was DLC, in talking about him being cut from the starting roster.

And just the remaining three newcomers, the fact that Lucas might be cut, and that post launch DLC is planned.

Veterans DLC Pack Includes Lucas, Wolf, and Mewtwo for $6.99. Has a ring to it.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Makes me wonder if we might have characters "saved" for the Wii U Version.

I know Sakurai said 3DS and Wii U will have the same characters, but I mean perhaps having "time unlock" characters in the 3DS Version who won't unlock till the Wii U Version is released.

And you competitive folks, do you think it's possible the 3DS Version might end up having more competitive popularity than the Wii U Version? Like if there's minute details and the difference in controls could possibly lead it to becoming a more popular tournament alternative from its console brethren?

 

[Qurupeke]

The fact is overall Mother is one of the weaker franchises in Smash.

Star Fox is still decently known (although I agree I could see Wolf gone) and has a revival coming next year it seems.

Jigglypuff just got a new type and is a Pokemon, they'll always win roster count.

R.O.B. is unique.

Fact is, Lucas is the lowest man on the totem pole.

Jigglypuff's type is probably the only saving grace for it as it's been irrelevant to Pokemon for years now. Its status as a 64 character isn't a solid enough reason to keep it, imo. I'll agree about Wolf and Rob, but still I can't see Lucas being having a bigger chance of getting cut. It's just a matter if Sakurai is willing to give him an update moveset or not.

 

[SkullHydra]

A couple of whiny posts does not represent the mindset of the whole competitive players/watchers. That's like when people generalize "GAF" opinions by a couple of posts.

Not to defend smash boards (The vitrol on the Smash 4 section should be modded) but there are other sections of the forum much more healthy that that.

Oh, I wasn't trying to generalize all competitive players at all. I was just talking about those super idiotic and vocal people who badmouth Sakurai all the time, complaining about Sakurai ignoring them. It's because of people like them that so many people have a negative opinion about competitive players.

 

[ffdgh]

Makes me wonder if we might have characters "saved" for the Wii U Version.

I know Sakurai said 3DS and Wii U will have the same characters, but I mean perhaps having "time unlock" characters in the 3DS Version who won't unlock till the Wii U Version is released.

Nah that sounds very unSakurai.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Veterans DLC Pack Includes Lucas, Wolf, and Mewtwo for $6.99. Has a ring to it.

There's no reason to think Wolf would be cut. At the very least, if there's another character cut, Mewtwo could definitely be in. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that, maybe add in some old stages.

Jigglypuff's type is probably the only saving grace for it as it's been irrelevant to Pokemon for years now. Its status as a 64 character isn't a solid enough reason to keep it, imo. I'll agree about Wolf and Rob, but still I can't see Lucas being having a bigger chance of getting cut. It's just a matter if Sakurai is willing to give him an update moveset or not.

I doesn't matter WHY he would be cut, all that matters is we have very good reason to believe that he was considered to be cut, and all current roster predictions suggest that there are at least four cuts. I understand you're upset, but it makes too much sense. We're not discussing if he should be cut, we're discussing that he probably was cut.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Makes me wonder if we might have characters "saved" for the Wii U Version.

I know Sakurai said 3DS and Wii U will have the same characters, but I mean perhaps having "time unlock" characters in the 3DS Version who won't unlock till the Wii U Version is released.

My guess is we will know the whole line-up before the Wii U release. We knew all Mario Kart 8 characters before release as well. My guess is perhaps Smash Dojo will not post Wii U pictures until release so people will buy it to see the HD version.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Also, could someone explain what does the rumour exactly suggest?

Someone should really put this in the OP...

Theres 3 parts to the Gematsu leak.

1st Part was revealed a few Days before E3 2013, It contained Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Megaman, Little Mac, Mii and Pac-man

2nd Part was released the day of the Smash Direct, it stated Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Chrorus Kids (Rhythm heaven) and a Pokemon from X/Y were in.

3rd Leak happened a day or two before E3 2014, it said Mii fighter was coming, DLC characters are happening post launch and Lucas may or may not be cut.

 

[Crocodile]

Am I the only one who's dissapointed that due to the leaks we almost certainly already know all the newcomers? Pretty much no surprises in that regard are ahead of us

 

[DaBoss]

He seems...sort of unfinished, just the weird way he stands there.

Also using Ice Punch randomly is a bit odd since usually Pokemon just use one attack.

It doesn't just stand around.

So the 3DS Pacman stage is the PacMan game while the Wii U one is classic Namco games?

Also, I saw Abomasnow in this video , did anyone catch that earlier today?

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Am I the only one who's dissapointed that due to the leaks we almost certainly already know all the newcomers? Pretty much no surprises in that regard are ahead of us

Yeah.

Same feeling I had when we knew all that Brawl had.

And when it was confirmed X/Y only had 69 New Pokemon.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Am I the only one who's dissapointed that due to the leaks we almost certainly already know all the newcomers? Pretty much no surprises in that regard are ahead of us

I'm still ready to be surprised by what the remaining newcomers can do!

Someone should really put this in the OP...

Theres 3 parts to the Gematsu leak.

1st Part was revealed a few Days before E3 2013, It contained Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Megaman, Little Mac, Mii and Pac-man

2nd Part was released the day of the Smash Direct, it stated Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Chrorus Kids (Rhythm heaven) and a Pokemon from X/Y were in.

3rd Leak happened a day or two before E3 2014, it said Mii fighter was coming, DLC characters are happening post launch and Lucas may or may not be cut.

If it were added to the OP, I'd add in that the 1st leak was intended to show all the characters planned for E3 2013 (so we can avoid the "where was Rosalina?" crowd), and that the information was probably old (explaining Pokemon from XY and the fact that the E3 data was inaccurate).

 

[The Great Gonzales]

Am I the only one who's dissapointed that due to the leaks we almost certainly already know all the newcomers? Pretty much no surprises in that regard are ahead of us

Even without the leaks, between the official site, Japan getting the game first, and our rampant speculation, we'd probably have most of the roster figured out by the time it released anyway. Absent leaks, the best way to preserve some of the surprise would be a worldwide release

Spoiler

Nintendo pls.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Veterans DLC Pack Includes Lucas, Wolf, and Mewtwo for $6.99. Has a ring to it.

Nintendo would probably charge 5 and throw in tons more things. Look to Mario Golf World Tour as an example of how Nintendo does character/level DLC. They tend to offer a lot for a cheap price.

 

[Qurupeke]

Someone should really put this in the OP...

Theres 3 parts to the Gematsu leak.

1st Part was revealed a few Days before E3 2013, It contained Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Megaman, Little Mac, Mii and Pac-man

2nd Part was released the day of the Smash Direct, it stated Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Chrorus Kids (Rhythm heaven) and a Pokemon from X/Y were in.

3rd Leak happened a day or two before E3 2014, it said Mii fighter was coming, DLC characters are happening post launch and Lucas may or may not be cut.

Thanks a lot, I didn't see the third part. I'm still not sure about those Gematsu leaks. They're only partly right. I mean, the first part is entirely true now but I'd expect Pac Man, Little Mac and Mii to be showcased along with the rest of them. But having guessed correctly both WFT and villager needs more than simple luck. The second part has many characters uncorfirmed and Chorus Kids are another crazy guess, so their inclusion or not will be vital. Pokemon from XY and Palutena weren't really safe bets, but not something totally unexpected. The third leak is probably the most weird one as we won't confirm it till possibly the launch. At least it doesn't explicitly say Lucas is cut...

 

[Jawmuncher]

Personally I wish that veterans were known from the get go and newcomers hadn't been leaked. That way we would know who's back and could still have fun speculating on who would've added.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Nintendo would probably charge 5 and throw in tons more things. Look to Mario Golf World Tour as an example of how Nintendo does character/level DLC. They tend to offer a lot for a cheap price.

Heh, I was just basing it off FE DLC.

However, I can see it going like this:
Veterans DLC Pack
Melee DLC Pack
Fan Favorite DLC Pack #1
Fan Favorite DLC Pack #2

However, I do think people need to stop freaking out about cut characters because Nintendo is going to add them in post-release.

Personally I wish that veterans were known from the get go and newcomers hadn't been leaked. That way we would know who's back and could still have fun speculating on who would've added.

Heh, I just wish we could have gotten Falco. He is the only one I want to know is confirmed.

 

[Ryce]

The third leak is probably the most weird one as we won't confirm it till possibly the launch. At least it doesn't explicitly say Lucas is cut...

The third leak said "Mii Fighter," a name which didn't exist prior to Smash Bros. It's already been confirmed through that alone.

 

[Qurupeke]

The third leak said "Mii Fighter," a name which didn't exist prior to Smash Bros. It's already been confirmed through that alone.

Oh... Ouch... Lucas...

 

[Kor of Memory]

Is it terrible that when I think about DLC characters, the first thing I worry about is how fluid the CSS will look after the additions are added?

 

[Crocodile]

Even without the leaks, between the official site, Japan getting the game first, and our rampant speculation, we'd probably have most of the roster figured out by the time it released anyway. Absent leaks, the best way to preserve some of the surprise would be a worldwide release

Spoiler

Nintendo pls.

There's a difference between knowing all the newcomers 2 weeks before release and knowing them 4-6 months before release

 

[georly]

Nintendo would probably charge 5 and throw in tons more things. Look to Mario Golf World Tour as an example of how Nintendo does character/level DLC. They tend to offer a lot for a cheap price.

Yeah, My guess is that it's similar to golf, where you get a character/stage combo. Maybe not stages because then they wouldn't be playable online (you can play AGAINST dlc characters you don't buy, just not AS them). It would probably be equipment/mii clothing/trophies/single player content.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Thanks a lot, I didn't see the third part. I'm still not sure about those Gematsu leaks. They're only partly right. I mean, the first part is entirely true now but I'd expect Pac Man, Little Mac and Mii to be showcased along with the rest of them. But having guesses correctly both WFT and villager needs more than simple luck. The second part has many characters uncorfirmed and Chorus Kids are another crazy guess, so their inclusion or not will be vital. Pokemon from XY and Palutena weren't really safe bets, but not something totally unexpected. The third leak is probably the most weird one as we won't confirm it till possibly the launch. At least it doesn't explicitly say Lucas is cut...

All of this has been explained. The information is clearly from early in the planning stages of the game when the roster was finalized (they weren't sure if Lucas was cut or not yet, Sakurai confirmed that Greninja was selected before he had a name), so it's likely that their E3 plans changed between when the info was obtained and E3 2013. Chorus Men being "crazy" doesn't really mean anything. The leaker also knew the Mii character was called "Mii Fighter".

There was no reason to think the Lucas situation was leaning one way or the other, until these select screen mockups, which show that 4 characters were likely cut. Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas.

 

[ec0ec0]

Hype tournament this weekend, going to work on a thread for it. BRRRBBBBB

thanks for making those threads

 

[Dr. Buni]

Heh, I was just basing it off FE DLC.

However, I can see it going like this:
Veterans DLC Pack
Melee DLC Pack
Fan Favorite DLC Pack #1
Fan Favorite DLC Pack #2

However, I do think people need to stop freaking out about cut characters because Nintendo is going to add them in post-release.


Heh, I just wish we could have gotten Falco. He is the only one I want to know is confirmed.

I really doubt they would release this huge amount of DLC. Nintendo isn't Capcom. Yet.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I really doubt they would release this huge amount of DLC. Nintendo isn't Capcom. Yet.

Have you played FE: Awakening?

There's been some Fire Emblem maps. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Again. It is much more than maps. They give you new characters, equipment, classes, and maps.

Is it terrible that when I think about DLC characters, the first thing I worry about is how fluid the CSS will look after the additions are added?

My guess is since the 3DS version will most likely require L and R to switch between a menu, it will get added to Wii U for DLC characters. 3DS will have 3 pages: 2 for main roster, 1 for DLC. Wii U will have 2 pages: 1 for main roster, 1 for DLC. I also imagine they would restrict DLC use in random battles like Mii to make it more balanced (but maybe not IDK).

 

[Toxi]

No feet, Van Persie only, Brazil.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I really doubt they would release this huge amount of DLC. Nintendo isn't Capcom. Yet.

Yeah, I'd expect like 4-5 characters at most, and that's really optimistic.

Lucas
Mewtwo
DK character???
Toon Zelda???
New Nintendo character (Squid dude/STEAM dude)???

I would say that Squirtle and Ivysaur should come back too, but that many Pokemon characters would be kinda silly. I'd also expect each character to come with trophies, stages, etc.