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[sixteen-bit]

300 damage super?

Art to play Arcana Heart 3 exclusively confirmed.

Adon buffs look oh so nice. I'm picking him back up for sure once AE drops.
RIP tourney winning wakeup times though

 

[biosnake20]

does capcom really think cody is that good? only givin him a 3 frame short but adon gets a fuckton of buffs

 

[_Xenon_]

ADON

Normals
-Normals overall have been buffed
-Frame changes to cr.LP, cl.MP, cr.HP
-Most notably, cl.MP is now +6 on hit, a massive increase in advantage (up from -1), can link into to Special attacks
-st.LP, st.MP, cr.MP have improved hitboxes

Specials
-EX Jaguar Tooth does not EX flash until Adon reaches the wall, is projectile-invincible until he lands
-MK Jaguar Kick had adjusted hitbox, cl.HP → MK Jaguar Kick combos

Super Combo
-Jaguar Varied Assault has a 7-frame startup (two frames faster), the first hit has a downward-extended hitbox

Other
-Has a longer wakeup time

Fuck this game, or they are planning another patch already.

 

[Mœbius]

With the most godlike mixups in the game, and a lot of characters having 900 stun, I really don't think Akuma needed MORE stun in AE. If anything, he needed more stun nerfs than just EX Tatsu.

I disagree. Akuma is supposed to be low health, high damage/stun potential. Compared to other similar characters (like Ibuki) who also have great mix-up potential, but also have slightly higher health, his stun is slightly too low in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying his stun should have been massively buffed. Just feel it should have been slightly improved (if not necessarily to Vanilla levels across the board) on a couple of moves, for example crouching sweep.

 

[USD]

Everything in one post.

DHALSIM

Normals
- DB+MP has faster startup, less recovery.
-cr.MP → cr.MP → EX Yoga Flame combos

Specials
-EX Yoga Flame is faster, combos from strong/forward normals
-EX Flame is now 50+70 (formerly 90+90)

Super Combo
-Yoga Inferno now does 300 damage (formerly 350)

Other
-Is considered mid-air immediately after the invincibility frames of his backdash end
-Overall damage has been reduced


M.BISON

Normals
-st.HK does 80 damage from the knee to the tip, 110 from the base
-cr.LK has a bigger hittable box, making it easier to stuff

Specials
-LK Double Knee Press pushes Bison back further on block

Super Combo
-Knee Press Nightmare is projectile-invincible during active frames

Ultra Combos
-Psycho Punisher (UC2) is now a charge command, does 450 damage (up from 420)


AKUMA

Specials
-MP Shoryuken has more invincibility from startup to 5f
-Rising Air Tatsu has a different trajectory, can no longer do escape Tatsu
-EX Tatsu does less damage, stun

Ultra Combos
-Demon Armageddon (UC2) has a downward extended hitbox when done off of a Ashura (Teleport) cancel
-st.HP → Teleport → UC2 possible, working as a sort of Shin Raging Demon

Other
-Is considered mid-air immediately after the invincibility frames of his backdash end


T.HAWK

Normals
-cl.HK has less recovery, is +4 on hit (according to the Super frame data, however, it was already +4)
-st.HK does more hit/block stun, making it harder to punish
-Diagonal j.HK has slightly more active frames

Specials
-EX Condor Dive can be done as a single move; can be done on a back jump, is projectile-invincible until the end of the attack
-LP Condor Spire hitbox extended forward
-Condor Spire builds more meter when done

Super Combo
-Double Typhoon now has the same range as LP Mexican Typhoon (1.5, up from 1.35)

Ultra Combos
-Raging Slash (UC2) has a faster startup, attack continues until the end of invincibility, making it incredibly easy to use as an anti-air


ADON

Normals
-Normals overall have been buffed
-Frame changes to cr.LP, cl.MP, cr.HP
-Most notably, cl.MP is now +6 on hit, a massive increase in advantage (up from -1), can link into to Special attacks
-st.LP, st.MP, cr.MP have improved hitboxes

Specials
-EX Jaguar Tooth does not EX flash until Adon reaches the wall, is projectile-invincible until he lands
-MK Jaguar Kick has adjusted push, cl.HP → MK Jaguar Kick combos

Super Combo
-Jaguar Varied Assault has a 7-frame startup (two frames faster), the first hit has a downward-extended hitbox

Other
-Has a longer wakeup time

 

[Satyamdas]

I disagree. Akuma is supposed to be low health, high damage/stun potential. Compared to other similar characters (like Ibuki) who also have great mix-up potential, but also have slightly higher health, his stun is slightly too low in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying his stun should have been massively buffed. Just feel it should have been slightly improved (if not necessarily to Vanilla levels across the board) on a couple of moves, for example crouching sweep.

I understand the type of character Akuma is, I'm just saying that with his ability to land long ass combos and mixup virtually the entire cast at will, that he didn't need any stun buffs in AE. Good Akumas already dizzy opponents probably more than any other character in the game. I just can't fathom giving his sweep more stun. Dude is already a stun monster.

 

[Axis]

I disagree. Akuma is supposed to be low health, high damage/stun potential. Compared to other similar characters (like Ibuki) who also have great mix-up potential, but also have slightly higher health, his stun is slightly too low in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying his stun should have been massively buffed. Just feel it should have been slightly improved (if not necessarily to Vanilla levels across the board) on a couple of moves, for example crouching sweep.

ibuki doesn't have half of the mixup game akuma does

 

[Sixfortyfive]

DHALSIM

ADON

First thing I thought of:

 

[Edgeward]

Fuck, Adon is gonna be more of a nightmare for me. Also, goddamn T. Hawk I was already scared of him. This is awful for me. D=

 

[Threi]

deejay fireball = free counterhit ex jagga toof


D:

 

[DR2K]

Adon's wake up game getting nerfed is alright with me, all his other buffs, probably just look better on paper. :lol

 

[sixteen-bit]

First thing I thought of:

Adon's losing the excellent wakeup time though. That's huge IMO.

 

[Skilotonn]

I was prepared for it thanks to the leaks, but man I still hate Bison's changes, especially the cr.LK, LK Scissors Kick push back and s.HK - I'll admit those three things are overused with him, but Bison needed those tools.

Adon becoming even better again - I'm not mad as I play him often, but I really don't get their decisions on what gets better or worse with characters - I'd love to see their own private "tier list" where Fuerte and Bison were so good that they dropped everything on them, and Adon was so bad that they made so many improvements.

 

[_Xenon_]

Adon's wake up game getting nerfed is alright with me, all his other buffs, probably just look better on paper. :lol

You can't go wrong with damage buff & more combo. Adon will be retarded in AE.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I was prepared for it thanks to the leaks, but man I still hate Bison's changes, especially the cr.LK, LK Scissors Kick push back and s.HK - I'll admit those three things are overused with him, but Bison needed those tools.

Pretty much the only way I play him save random EX PC and empty devil's reverse.

 

[Axis]

You can't go wrong with damage buff & more combo. Adon will be retarded in AE.

all you do is complain about adon...is he really the bane of your existence? holy fuck



he's not great as it stands...the thing that makes him as viable as he is RIGHT NOW is that it's hard to safejump him...you can now safejump him; why wouldn't he get buffs in other places?

 

[DR2K]

I was prepared for it thanks to the leaks, but man I still hate Bison's changes, especially the cr.LK, LK Scissors Kick push back and s.HK - I'll admit those three things are overused with him, but Bison needed those tools.

Adon becoming even better again - I'm not mad as I play him often, but I really don't get their decisions on what gets better or worse with characters - I'd love to see their own private "tier list" where Fuerte and Bison were so good that they dropped everything on them, and Adon was so bad that they made so many improvements.

These updates are not just based on high level play. It's probably based on character usage, scrub players, general complaints, and high level play. Which is probably why these balance changes are a mixed bag. We really don't know how any of these changes will play out until it's all said and done.

 

[Degen]

-Double Typhoon now has the same range as LP Mexican Typhoon (1.5, up from 1.35)

Sure, I'll take it :lol though I'm not sure how often it'll get used, with all that anti-projectile diving and what-not.
Wonder if the jumping LP into Dive trick works with the EX version.

-Raging Slash (UC2) has a faster startup, attack continues until the end of invincibility,

So if they're in the air and in vicinity, free ultra 2, got it.


gosh, what a technical character I main'd

 

[Solune]

Everything in one post.

ADON

Specials
-EX Jaguar Tooth does not EX flash until Adon reaches the wall, is projectile-invincible until he lands
-MK Jaguar Kick has adjusted push, cl.HP → MK Jaguar Kick combos

Hmm.. this already combos but is character specific. Does that mean it should work on all chars now?

 

[Mœbius]

ibuki doesn't have half of the mixup game akuma does

Which is why I said similar and not the same, and also why I pointed out they have higher health. Is it really so ridiculous that I would suggest Ibuki is a similar kind of character to Akuma? Really?

 

[Axis]

Which is why I said similar and not the same, and also why I pointed out they have higher health. Is it really so ridiculous that I would suggest Ibuki is a similar kind of character to Akuma? Really?

no, it's ridiculous that you're asking for buffs to an already great character while 90% of the top half of the cast are being nerfed

 

[Lost Fragment]

Every time I read about a character I play getting nerfs, I just thought "hey at least I don't play Blanka."

 

[Mœbius]

no, it's ridiculous that you're asking for buffs to an already great character while 90% of the top half of the cast are being nerfed

I'm not sure how many more times I can clarify that I wasn't suggesting for some ridiculous buff, a slight stun increase on a couple of moves to bring in line Akuma's stun potential with other mix-up characters is not ridiculous in my opinion.

Anyway as I said in my original post I would have liked to see the stun changes, but I wasn't screaming about it being a must because I realise it's not, and since it's not there so be it. Actually pleased with how they've left Akuma on the whole and agree that no other buffs to his game are necessary (other character nerfs considered).

EDIT: I repeated myself in that last paragraph so just took out the first sentence.

 

[Skilotonn]

Pretty much the only way I play him save random EX PC and empty devil's reverse.

If they had messed with EX PC on top of all that, I could see myself playing less Bison, even though he still has everything else intact. Definitely won't be dropping him though.

The three things I mentioned was why you never even needed to use Ultra to win, and now that those changes are happening, plus BOTH of his Ultras are charge, it's like they want to bring an okay character down more.

Why is Chun's U2 still QCF x 2 in this case? That combos off so much more stuff, and it's not even like she needs it.

These updates are not just based on high level play. It's probably based on character usage, scrub players, general complaints, and high level play. Which is probably why these balance changes are a mixed bag. We really don't know how any of these changes will play out until it's all said and done.

I can see that, but some changes are straight-up head scratchers, like Fuerte and Cody - especially Cody. But I'll see for myself regardless, I got most of my wishes to come true, like Makoto, Dee Jay and Hakan improving, so it isn't all bad.

Every time I read about a character I play getting nerfs, I just thought "hey at least I don't play Blanka."

 

["God's Beard!"]

Man, Dhalsim and Bison got nerfed the FUCK OUT. Goddamn. I hate Dhalsim more than any other character, but this isn't fair. And Bison, come the fuck on. That's like taking away Gen's MK hands.

bring in line Akuma's stun potential with other mix-up characters

 

[Axis]

I'm not sure how many more times I can clarify that I wasn't suggesting for some ridiculous buff, a slight stun increase on a couple of moves to bring in line Akuma's stun potential with other mix-up characters is not ridiculous in my opinion.

Anyway it was something that I would have liked to see and it's not there so whatever, it's not that big a deal as I've been trying to say. As I said in my original post I would have liked to see the stun changes, but I wasn't screaming about it being a must, and since they are not there so be it. Actually pleased with how they've left Akuma on the whole and agree that no other buffs to his game are necessary (other character nerfs considered).

a slight stun increase on a couple of moves that are key to his mixup game which is already THE BEST IN THE GAME...along with already stunning damn near everyone with a couple of mixups? yes, that's asking for too much



and i disagree, akuma should NOT have been left as is for the most part...really would've liked to have seen a walk speed nerf at the very least

 

[Mœbius]

and i disagree, akuma should NOT have been left as is for the most part...really would've liked to have seen a walk speed nerf at the very least

Well technically I wasn't stating if it was right or not to leave him mostly as is, just said that I was pleased about it.

 

[_Xenon_]

It seems capcom made all these changes based on XBL/PSN feedbacks. Too many scrubby complains about blanka, bison, dalhsim so they got nerfed hard. Too few people play rufus, adon and feilong so they are barely touched or buffed even though they are good already. Juri & cody got the cold shoulder because they are popular online. Zengief and Thawk are too good in laggy matches so they have some head scratching changes.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I can't think of another character that has the stun potential that Akuma does off the top of my head. Cammy maybe.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Dudley got buffed because everyone loves watching him but nobody plays him because he's trash.

 

[AZ Greg]

It seems capcom made all these changes based on XBL/PSN feedbacks. Too many scrubby complains about blanka, bison, dalhsim so they got nerfed hard. Too few people play rufus, adon and feilong so they are barely touched or buffed even though they are good already. Juri & cody got the cold shoulder because they are popular online. Zengief and Thawk are too good in laggy matches so they have some head scratching changes.

Ah, OK, now I understand why Evilore moved this thread off the main page.

 

[Axis]

It seems capcom made all these changes based on XBL/PSN feedbacks. Too many scrubby complains about blanka, bison, dalhsim so they got nerfed hard. Too few people play rufus, adon and feilong so they are barely touched or buffed even though they are good already. Juri & cody got the cold shoulder because they are popular online. Zengief and Thawk are too good in laggy matches so they have some head scratching changes.

this feedback is based on reading your post:



you. are. insane.

 

[Satyamdas]

It seems capcom made all these changes based on XBL/PSN feedbacks. Too many scrubby complains about blanka, bison, dalhsim so they got nerfed hard. Too few people play rufus, adon and feilong so they are barely touched or buffed even though they are good already. Juri & cody got the cold shoulder because they are popular online. Zengief and Thawk are too good in laggy matches so they have some head scratching changes.

Yeah I reallllllllllllllllly doubt Capcom sits around in their offices trolling SRK and catering their game changes to the whiniest moaning crybabies on a messageboard. I can understand disagreeing with the direction they are going in or specific changes, but if you think they are catering an ARCADE release to a bunch of whiny forumgoers, I find that incredibly naive and shortsighted, if not outright stupid.

 

[Mœbius]

I can't think of another character that has the stun potential that Akuma does off the top of my head. Cammy maybe.

Ibuki? Haven't played much with her so can't say from personal experience but I've seen videos of her get stuns by connecting two of her target combos back to back.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Too many players do that IMO. And not just with Dudley, but with virtually the entire cast except for maybe the few agreed upon best characters. And even then you sometimes see it.

I think that attitude is a huge roadblock for a lot of players as well. Don't get me wrong, venting about character weaknesses and annoying MUs is one thing, but putting W/L results almost solely on the character and ignoring that it is more than likely you, the player, is always funny to me. Sure a player may be able to switch to a "better" or "easier" character and have a higher win percentage, but that only reflects negatively on the character at the highest level of play when the player is squeezing everything there is out of a character. Otherwise it just looks like you need a handicap IMO.

I think before players blame their character for their losing at a local tournament/session or online match vs. randoms/GAF, they should put a better player in their shoes, preferably a top level player who plays their character, and ask themselves, would that player have had better results vs. the player who just beat me? If the answer is "Yes" then the character is obviously not the problem. Using Dudley as an example (Since we're already talking about him and he is a good example since he isn't a great or horrible character), if someone plays Dudley and they get bodied at local sessions, vs. GAF online, or wherever, but Marn, for example, could easily handle these same opponents with his Dudley then quit acting like the character is the reason you are losing.

Your right, but a pro level could probably take out his opposition with a one legged prostitute type of character ;p.

 

[Axis]

Ibuki? Haven't played much with her so can't say from personal experience but I've seen videos of her get stuns by connecting two of her target combos back to back.

she has the stun potential but she in no way has as easy a way to get into it as akuma does and her shenanigans aren't nearly as good, either.


akuma, ibuki, cammy are all right there when it comes to stun potential but cammy has no vortex, unfortunately

 

[Mœbius]

she has the stun potential but she in no way has as easy a way to get into it as akuma does and her shenanigans aren't nearly as good, either.


akuma, ibuki, cammy are all right there when it comes to stun potential but cammy has no vortex, unfortunately

Really? I thought her vortex game was decent, not as good as Akuma's granted but relatively safe and with a better ground game (at least in the match-up with Akuma).

Btw, I feel like maybe we got off on the wrong foot and you think I'm just one of those people hoping their character gets ridiculous buffs simply because it's their main (for the record I'm maining Makoto now, along with Akuma from before) - anyway, that's really not the case. Just genuinely feel that the increased stun would have been nice and not broken the character, but I accept that with the other character nerfs I could be wrong. Regardless, appreciate your position.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Sim's nerf is not THAT serious

Inferno still has the same properties, so you can still use it for the same rhyme and reason you always have. In terms of second to second situation gameplay Sim got buffed.

Akuma is ....still Akuma

THawk sounds like buffs, but i dont know what they mean really, till i see it in action. Except for U2 properties, days of jump backs n neutral jumps are ending.

Dic got nerfs but, at least on paper, i think his overall shtick will still be the same and effective.

Adon was already the best or one of the best of the new characters, his buffs seems REAALLY brave to me, we'll see how it turns out but he definitely moving on up to the eastside.

 

[Killa Sasa]

I can't think of another character that has the stun potential that Akuma does off the top of my head. Cammy maybe.

That red haired girl you play does pretty decent stun too. Seth has great stun potential as well.

I think Akuma should get back some of his Vanilla stun though. Give FADC shakanetsu a use again.

 

[Axis]

Really? I thought her vortex game was decent, not as good as Akuma's granted but relatively safe and with a better ground game (at least in the match-up with Akuma).

Btw, I feel like maybe we got off on the wrong foot and you think I'm just one of those people hoping their character gets ridiculous buffs simply because it's their main (for the record I'm maining Makoto now, along with Akuma from before) - anyway, that's really not the case. Just genuinely feel that the increased stun would have been nice and not broken the character, but I accept that with the other character nerfs I could be wrong. Regardless, appreciate your position.

i main cammy; i don't think it's that amazing and down-back will still make her life hell. xup divekick is nice and all but nothing really leads to an untechable except c.fp->sweep or counterhit c.mp->sweep and safejumping off of spiral arrow is character dependent so it's not really the same thing.


it's all good...i just feel with all the nerfs other chars are getting that adding stun to an already top 5 char(imo) would make him OP in the wake of what other characters aren't getting. just my .02

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Sim's nerf is not THAT serious

Inferno still has the same properties, so you can still use it for the same rhyme and reason you always have. In terms of second to second situation gameplay Sim got buffed.

"overall damage nerfs" is pretty ambiguous...honda also had that listed.

 

[Lost Fragment]

That red haired girl you play does pretty decent stun too. Seth has great stun potential as well.

I think Akuma should get back some of his Vanilla stun though. Give FADC shakanetsu a use again.

Not saying that Viper doesn't have high stun potential or anything because she does, but she only does crazy stun when she lands fff, and people only get hit with that when they do something really unsafe or don't block a non-crossup jumpin. Pretty decent difference between that, and getting stuns off of 8-way mixups.

Seth though...don't play him much but yeah, I can see that.

 

[XenoRaven]

It seems capcom made all these changes based on XBL/PSN feedbacks. Too many scrubby complains about blanka, bison, dalhsim so they got nerfed hard. Too few people play rufus, adon and feilong so they are barely touched or buffed even though they are good already. Juri & cody got the cold shoulder because they are popular online. Zengief and Thawk are too good in laggy matches so they have some head scratching changes.

You have a wild imagination.

 

[MarkMan]

I missed the stream from Shadowloo Showdown... Anyone have a link to matches from the finals?

Want to see dat Mago/GamerBee/Tokido action.

 

[Satyamdas]

Sim's nerf is not THAT serious

Inferno still has the same properties, so you can still use it for the same rhyme and reason you always have. In terms of second to second situation gameplay Sim got buffed.

Agreed that it's not that big of a deal. Having 50 damage taken off your Super sucks for sure, but the damage was pretty high, especially if you landed it off a canceled Yoga Flame.

For example if Sim lands a level 2 focus and does HP Flame xx Super, you are looking at 451 damage. Level 3 and it's 481. His BnB into Super is also 480+, and if you do it in the corner and connect a B+HK after, you get 560ish damage. I understand toning that down a bit. Making EX Flame do only 10 more damage than LP flame is kinda though.

Having his normals do less damage also sucks, but again it's not a big deal. He'll just have to connect 2 or 3 more pokes per round to compensate. Down Back MP coming out a frame or two quicker is nice though, as it'll help him deal with dive kick pressure and in close to midrange situations.

All I really would have asked for is for either EX Yoga Blast to have it's hurtbox reduced so it doesn't trade 9 out of 10 times, or if that is too much then make the normal versions useful. As it is I think HK Yoga Blast is the most useless move in the entire game.

 

[USD]

I missed the stream from Shadowloo Showdown... Anyone have a link to matches from the finals?

Want to see dat Mago/GamerBee/Tokido action.

I don't think the matches have been uploaded to YouTube yet, but they will be eventually.

 

[hitsugi]

I think most of you saying Adon is going to be so amazing are forgetting that Adon is currently.. basically unapproachable on wake up most of the time. That is huge.

...the c.mp frame advantage buff is a little nuts though. so much for hitting him with demon in between c.mp -> jag kick

 

[Mœbius]

I missed the stream from Shadowloo Showdown... Anyone have a link to matches from the finals?

Want to see dat Mago/GamerBee/Tokido action.

Here's the recorded stream of the Grand Final between Gamerbee and Tokido, think some of the other finals matches with Mago are linked there too. http://www.justin.tv/sakurakanade/b/275499585

 

[Timedog]

Fuck, good!

Sim's retardedly easy to combo super needed a damage nerf. Not only because it's retardedly easy to combo, but because Sim builds meter so fucking fast. Also, giving Sim more combo ability will make him more fun to watch. Make Sim a range/combo buttfuck but with low damage.

The Bison nerfs, GOOD. Give him less easy/cheesy chip damage, and of course his st. HK poke was ridiculous. As a non bison player, I definitely like U2 being charge now, but I think that was a highly unnecessary change.

Adon's wakeup was bullshit. Don't make people try to memorize different wakeup speeds that differ by frames--that's ridiculous game design. Buffing his normals is dissappointing, considering he had good normals before, but I guess since the "tier list" said he was low, they had to do something. No one's every explained to me why Adon is low tier anyway. His specials are mostly safe and have gdlk priority, his normals are very good, he has combo into ultra, slightly ambiguous cross up. Can someone explain why Adon supposedly sucks?

Akuma, if he can "combo" into U2 then fuck that. I even play Akuma once in awhile. Maybe I read it wrong. Can he st. hp then teleport then somehow cancel the teleport with U2 before the character is out of hitstun. Seriously fuck that shit. He's the best in the game easily. With that type of character he should have a shitty ultra that isn't that viable outside of the opponent fucking up. I'd probably pick up him as my new main if my execution didn't blow.

I don't give a good god damn about what they do to T. Hawk.

GIVE RYU A HUGE DAMAGE HITBOX UNDERNEATH HIS AIR TATSU SO I CAN FUCK PEOPLE UP.

 

[Timedog]

I think most of you saying Adon is going to be so amazing are forgetting that Adon is currently.. basically unapproachable on wake up most of the time. That is huge.

Wakeup doesn't only consist of safejump setups.