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TEKKEN 5: DR ONLINE - Available NOW!
- Thread starter MarkMan
- Start date
FormulaOne
Member
Sho Nuff said:
Who cares. So what if frames are dropped or a boot to the head drops you before you even saw it coming. Online play for fighting games is what it is and I accept it.
FormulaOne said:
No, NO!!! Lag absolutely DESTROYS the fragile balance of the game. I would rather not have any form of online play for anybody instead of something that was the slightest bit imperfect.
Are you some kind of loser who doesn't have high-tier friends he can play with? Why don't you come over to my apartment in the boonies outside of Tokyo and we can play each other for hours and eat Pop tarts?
(btw this is sarcasm)
FormulaOne
Member
Sho Nuff said:
You have a point. I'll bring over my 10 pound joystick.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
****JIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ****
Thats me leaking after reading the thread title!
Thats me leaking after reading the thread title!
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Wow. I sure am regretting a recent purchase...
dfyb said:like any online fighter, it will feel different and require totally different timing -- it'll be a different game. do yourself a favor and find your local scene and play in person, like people do with every other fighter.
the pressure people put on developers to impliment online is worrysome. anyone who practices extensively online is going to be tuned to a different game -- effectively setting them up for dissapointment when they fight locally. serious players, for hte most part, will ignore online -- more casual players, for the most part, will focus on online multiplayer. their discussions will be incompatible.
if you just play casually, have a ball.
edit: not trying to spoil the thread. i guess i'm just saying that you guys shouldn't be shy about trying to find local competition if you're serious about a fighting game.
I still don't understand why fighting gamers have this oh noes it's on the internet it will lag and it's a totally different game. Doesn't online FPS require the same amount of precision where milliseconds would mean the difference between life and death. If it's any fault of fighting games, it's the network code that the devs write not the genre.
Yes I do understand hardcore players will require every single darn frame to do their combos and moves flawless but wtf seriously. To me it's a great thing that Tekkan goes online.
i live in texas and the dallas fort worth area has a great fighting community. most big cities will probably have similar results and california is great. all i'm saying is that you should at least try to see if there's anything around where you are. $10 says most of you havn't even bothered looking via the big forums for certain games.Sho Nuff said:
the problem is the pressure the public puts on these games to have online. if they do online, they have to make it good online. in the future, that will often mean designing the games around the sketchy online environment. dumbing down fighting games so they work well online is not something most fighting game fans find extremely exciting.
no, FPS have a lot more flexibility. you say it's the netcode's problem and not the genre, yet ignore how there's not any really great fighter netcode for any game. hmmm.. interesting coincidence?bigswords said:
fighting gamers have this 'oh noes' because fighting games don't work well online using today's typical broadband connection in america. pretty much every fighting gamer has at one point been very optimistic about fighting online, because the lack of competition is ever-present. and then we play online and notice it's not the same game at all.
hopefully fios spreads across america fast enough -- i'll have it in august
. fios can help.
virtuafightermaster
Banned
Come on AM2, make it happen.
jakeellis01
Member
I play Tekken almost everyday.... people who play it constantly will know that online battles will definitely have lag issues especially in small frame-advantages split-second moments...
Downloadable player ghosts made more sense imo.
Im more excited for the Practice mode than the Online mode
Downloadable player ghosts made more sense imo.
Im more excited for the Practice mode than the Online mode
dfyb said:
Name one fighting game that uses DEDICATED SERVERS to play (not just matchmaking), DOA and the rest are using peer to peer. If it's regional I think it will be playable, overseas yes I agree the lag will quite unbearable (depends on location).
I did not ignore any great fighter netcode because honestly the only ones I played are on the xbox 360 and the lag was insane.
with only 2 people connecting, i don't really think dedicated servers would offer a significant advantage -- we just need faster internet. dedicated servers would just put one more destination for packets in between players (p1 has to send data to server, then server has to send it to p2).bigswords said:
dfyb said:
A DS server gets rid of the advantage the person hosting on a listen server would have. This game would be a *****fest of massive proportions if the code was predicated on a p2p environment one user having basically a lagless experience while the other has to put up with crappy routing and low upload because his ISP was cheap.
dfyb said:
Another way I can see them reduce lag is to force players to play within their own region / ping requirements. Faster internet won't do much it's not the bandwidth that is the factor in these games, it's the latency. Games with good predictive netcode can sort of balance latency to a certain point.
yeah you get rid of host advantage, but that's it. you end up with a more balanced (depending on your ISPs), but even more laggy game in return. yay? eh... dedicated servers would be a big hassle for not so much improvement.Hatorade said:
bigswords said:
fios = faster speeds = less latency
MickeyKnox
Member
Interesting, will be completely worthless for actual play but should be interesting to see what Namco does with the net code, if pings are low enough it might be almost entertaining.
bigswords said:
But FPS's aren't about ye olde' western one on one shoot offs which the same arguments as to fighting games would arise, you travel around the map looking for people in freedom.
Tekken is about Mano on Mano, people were pissed enough as with Tekken 5 on the PS2 when you fight Jinpachi and he always attacked you 0.0000000000000000000000000000001 second before you hit him, it would be just as Pad breakingly annoying and frustrating if you lost because of lag and it would only take one pratt to exploit lag and wreck the game for you as well.
Plus fighting games are at 60FPS, that must be a bitch to create netcode for.
dfyb said:
A host shouldn't have an advantage of response over another user it's a simple point. Especially for a game that's 1v1 based with frames being a huge element of ones performance. I'm gonna love seeing how this turns out can't wait to go online and see how much cheese can be done with Jin or Steve simply because of ones latency let alone lag. Doing a DS server isn't a hassle problem is the console manfuacters and developers are flat out f'n dumb on it's implementation of them.
Oh come on people, be a little more optimistic. It's not like this is meant to replace standard competitive play, or as if they're gimping the offline modes. What better way to test out online play then with a game you can't totally f*** up because you already made it. Even if this ends up an absolute failure, this is a good thing.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Mirimar said:
I fail to see why progress is something to complain about.
Also in my few Third Strike matches I've had no problems getting hit by nasty Makoto juggles so if Namco can at least accomplish a half-decent online mode then kudos are certainly deserved.
doing a dedicated server just for 2 people to play a couple minutes is a hassle. if done right, p2p can work just fine.Hatorade said:
p1 attacks and hitbox activates at certain coordinate at certain time, sends this data to p2. p2's game checks if he was where the hitbox was at that time, sends resutls back to p1. p1 recieves results and displays hit or miss. and vice versa. it's laggy on both ends and you use interpolation to help make it smoother looking and look more accurate, but you don't have to communicate with a third party (dedicated server) to slow things down even more.
p2p is perfectly fine for a fighting game. you don't have to do host/client where the host tells the client if he hit p2 or not based soley on p2's location for p1 locally. i'll bet most fighting games are already pretty smart about it. i don't know why you guys insist that they're just doing it wrong, as if you have some easy, perfect solution that they just havn't though of yet :lol.
edit: there are more online fighters than you think. SNK often puts their japanese ps2 games online. even MAME has online support through keillera and there are other emu online options. it's not like this is a new concept. online fighters aren't new -- they're just not super common because our internet is too slow to make it worthwhile.
GoncaloCCastro
Member
this is great news, I was going to buy Tekken 5 DR today and this is the icing on the cake.
dfyb said:
I'm not dev so it's not my duty to provide the solution only to tell them the current one sucks. The problem has nothing to do with technical power rather the realities of life. More so you can't use a prediction system for fighter since you can't automatically assume one's movement it's not an fps so I don't see why brung it up. Do the math think your isp general latency speed can keep with a few frames of movement that you can't predict because it's a fighter. Online gaming is fun but in this genre and others like I've learned more often that not most suck in the area of registry and decent lan like experience. If only the us has better uploads and constency in pings before broadband took and everything markets became oversold.
Lag and Ping are two different things. Both can influence the nature of a fighter very negatively at the very least I know with online play it won't be anything serious for preparing for tournies that are offline. Namco's at the helm and they haven't been making smart decisions with either of these games since after TTT I can't help but wonder how it is easy for them to screw this up somehow.
interpolation does little more than keep movement smooth -- just like in FPS games. you can't predict FPS movement any more than fighters -- fighters just have a lot more going on so it amplifies the problem. if you had no interpolation, the characters would constantly be teleporting around and it would look very choppy because it would only update their location when you recieved that packet.Hatorade said:
dfyb said:
Interp sucks and most good leagues jack it down in games it creates problems say like cs. Also movement in an fps is a lot more predictable to the system running simulations than a fighter. There's nothing in fps games that could get as difficult to predict as some who's very effective in crouch dashing or stance shifting with characters. In an fps you can only move so much over a certain period of time. In a fighter prediciting where two opponents could possibly be is a lot harder than fps in players all play by the same set of server variables.
A good effective netcode that makes the most of what online play can do is more preferred to going with a status quo that is highly abused because of naive devs. I've had my fun with standby glitching, warping and rate hacking in fps games as a result of how the system tries to adjust to make to uneven response in ping equal between to the users.
Lastly warping occurs either because of lag or not enough data is not enough data is not being sent. Often enough in a fps if a server doesn't use broadband friendly rates I don't bother since the odds of you being killed by pullback to a previous spot is more likely to occure with people abusing rates.
Just wait this game will be full of net safe cheese and with the rankings I can see the massive loads of whining coming from the players because they lost because of lag. Next gen gaming at it's finest right here.
when you are playing 2 player games, P2P is only good choice. Dedicated servers can only make everything slower, since you have one extra step.
Provided that they show actual ping times (like warhawk) and not just graphics (like CAC), it will be good enough, since you will be able to see how far player is. So you can decide if you want to play that 50ms game or not (or 200 ms game)...
For me, it will be AWESOME, since i dont have friends come over daily (rather monthly), and I am not hard core either....
Provided that they show actual ping times (like warhawk) and not just graphics (like CAC), it will be good enough, since you will be able to see how far player is. So you can decide if you want to play that 50ms game or not (or 200 ms game)...
For me, it will be AWESOME, since i dont have friends come over daily (rather monthly), and I am not hard core either....
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
I have T5 : DR and I enjoy it, however...
I can't believe more people aren't pissed off that they are charging money for a ****ing patch!? That's some serious bullshit, there. It should be $5 MAX. If you're going to charge at least have it include some other new content like a stage or character or ....
Namco, why don't you add the rest of the character endings for DL? Why the **** not? Why have 3 endings and none of the others?
Sorry. I like the game but some things about it piss me off.
I can't believe more people aren't pissed off that they are charging money for a ****ing patch!? That's some serious bullshit, there. It should be $5 MAX. If you're going to charge at least have it include some other new content like a stage or character or ....
Namco, why don't you add the rest of the character endings for DL? Why the **** not? Why have 3 endings and none of the others?
Sorry. I like the game but some things about it piss me off.