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[SDBurton]

Give this is a watch people, Aris did a great job summarizing his discussions with Harada about Tekken.

Watched it yesterday, really solid recap of what they were talking about during the Tekken Casino stream. Don't know how I'm gonna last another week, I wanna see the full trailer so bad!

 

[Via Purifico]

You guys think the full trailer has some gameplay?

 

[Shredderi]

You guys think the full trailer has some gameplay?

I think it will have some action scenes but not gameplay, sadly.

 

[jett]

You guys think the full trailer has some gameplay?

I expect a CG-fest.

 

[Via Purifico]

I think it will have some action scenes but not gameplay, sadly.

I expect a CG-fest.

My fears too I am really looking forward to hearing what else Harada has in store.

 

[Sayah]

Juggling is always going to be part of Tekken otherwise it's not Tekken any more.

Most of the discussion around here is about Bound. Tekken was a fairly juggle heavy game even before Bound, Bound just added that extra layer of it. Tekken was a more than competent fighting game with a solid combo/juggle system... the argument should rather be about why you NEED Bound. The argument presented before was that some characters did not have access to juggling capability in Tekken 5 and before resulting in character strength differential to which can be countered by saying that those characters had incomplete juggling system to begin with. Instead of making fixes to characters on an individual level to fix their juggle issues they added a universal juggle system which made every one a juggler and those who juggled a lot before can juggle even more now. Another argument presented was that it gave a few more moves actual purpose and made them more usable in combat (ie. moves that inflict the Bound state) which can be countered by saying that those moves should be made to be useful in other situations besides just being a Bound set up.

Dahbomb, did you even play Tekken 6 or TTT2? lol. Didn't you stop at Tekken 5?

Nobody had issues juggling in Tekken 5. Just the juggle capability of some characters weren't as good as other characters. This is no different than any other fighting game where some characters can combo better than others.

On average, bound really only adds 1 - 3 hits per juggle. What really made juggles last longer after Tekken 6 was NOT bound, but the changes to the float properties of the victim and addition of lots of moves that serve as juggle fillers.

What bound really added was improved oki for a lot of characters. The ability to spike an opponent at the end of a juggle to set up a advantageous oki situation was actually very rare before Tekken 6. It was a big part of the reason that Devil Jin was so good in Tekken DR, because he had fantastic mid stage oki which was INCREDIBLY rare back then. The addition of bound gives every character a universal option to set up a spike into an advantageous oki situation. This is why bound as a specific mechanic is needed.
If you remove bound and try to bandaid this aspect by giving everyone a spike move, then the juggle physics are going to have to be completely reworked, because as it is now, spiking an opponent without bound still makes the opponent slide out of range for anything meaningful. In that situation, the only characters with strong oki will be characters like Lars who has a spike option that moves him forward to negate the effect of the opponent sliding away. It'll be another Tekken DR Devil Jin situation all over again.

On another note that is unrelated to the quoted post, even in Tekken Tag 2, your average juggle is no more than 4-5 seconds. As usual, a lot of hyperbole comes into play when it comes to people complaining about juggles.

This is a great post.

You see, it's perfectly fine in Tekken Revolution because you can't refloat the initial frames of backrolls in that game like you can in the other games, so it's a moot point there.

The thing is, most of the old school heads absolutely hate that particular aspect of Tekken Revolution. So if you want backroll floats to stay while not making it super exclusive to certain characters, you need bound.

Lack of bound is the reason I don't play Tekken Revolution. I have no problem with the special/critical attacks because they can be easily punished. But bounds.......I need dat.

 

[AAK]

I think it's gonna be extremely unlikely there will be anything gameplay related at Comiccon. At best we can hope there will be some kind of screenshot released or something.

 

[sixteen-bit]

You guys think the full trailer has some gameplay?

Probably be like Tekken 6's debut. A weird target render but no game footage.

 

[Sayah]

I think it's gonna be extremely unlikely there will be anything gameplay related at Comiccon. At best we can hope there will be some kind of screenshot released or something.

Yeah, I don't think there will be in-game footage at Comic-Con but you never know.

Also, Comic-Con is where TKXSF and SFXTK were originally revealed. So maybe.....maaaayyyyybe, we might get a TKXSF reveal three and we'll then know for sure of the 2/3 projects Harada is working on. But this is being very optimistic.

 

[Amaya]

Probably be like Tekken 6's debut. A weird target render but no game footage.

Sad to say you're probably right. That tekken 6 teaser looked insane if my memory serves me right. Graphics never looked like the teaser.

 

[Dahbomb]

I did play Tekken 6. Just not too hardcore. I even owned the game on PS3.

 

[sleepykyo]

People are willing to watch UMvC3 juggles that last for days (surprise they have ground bounces *cough* bound *cough* too) yet they can't bear looking at a Tekken juggle for an extra 2 seconds? wtf?

not necessarily the same group and different expectations. MvC games tend to be broken and that's part of the appeal.

 

[AAK]

Probably be like Tekken 6's debut. A weird target render but no game footage.

That wasn't Tekken 6. That was just the word "Tekken" there, there was no 6 for it... so it was more like a promo for PS3 back when Tekken was Sony exclusive.

THIS was the Tekken 6 reveal... that they thankfully scrapped that and re-revealed it as this.

Hmm I was thinking about that teaser they showed with jin. You know!

That's the one I'm talking about. That teaser never mentioned anything about Tekken 6. It was just a promo done for Sony for a game that would eventually begin production.

 

[Amaya]

That wasn't Tekken 6. That was just the word "Tekken" there, there was no 6 for it... so it was more like a promo for PS3 back when Tekken was Sony exclusive.

THIS was the Tekken 6 reveal... that they thankfully scrapped that and re-revealed it as this.

Hmm I was thinking about that teaser they showed with jin. You know!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EilJlK_SQkc

 

[Deckard Cain]

I still find it funny people want a return to this magical time when Tekken was not about juggles that in reality never existed.

 

[Sayah]

I still find it funny people want a return to this magical time when Tekken was not about juggles that in reality never existed.

People got really exposed to juggles in T6 era thanks to online play but didn't before that.

Before T6, in fact, I was also pretty much a casual player despite myself thinking at the time I was a hardcore Tekken fan who was reeally good at the series. And then I went online in T6 and my eyes were opened.

 

[Deckard Cain]

People got really exposed to juggles in T6 era thanks to online play but didn't before that.

Before T6, in fact, I was also pretty much a casual player despite myself thinking at the time I was a hardcore Tekken fan who was reeally good at the series. And then I went online in T6 and my eyes were opened.

I would agree. In each person's little bubble at home they believed whatever they thought about Tekken. They were just not exposed to the realities of the game. In an era with no online play & the internet still in it's infincy it was easy not to see how Tekken was suppose to be played. In the 2000s that all changed & with it the perception of Tekken to the masses.

 

[Sayah]

I would agree. In each person's little bubble at home they believed whatever they thought about Tekken. They were just not exposed to the realities of the game. In an era with no online play & the internet still in it's infincy it was easy not to see how Tekken was suppose to be played. In the 2000s that all changed & with it the perception of Tekken to the masses.

I literally witnessed the image of Tekken changing from "button masher friendly" to "this series is too complex and hard" in the post-Tekken 6 world. Speaking from personal experience at least.

 

[Noisepurge]

I hate how you just completely disregarded that person's post and just said 'nah' with no answer of your own, at least provide a counter argument, maybe a mod should set up a poll to see everyone's opinion regarding bound.
I'm saying be for or against bound but at least provide a reason as to why you feel that way about bounds.

What? Yes i did. I said rebalance the characters that have bound-like moves. Tekken 5DR is the best Tekken ever made and Revolution is closer to that and should be the way to go with in T7.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I don't mind long combos but it sucks seeing the same ones over and over after one little mistake or lucky launch. My proposal for mid-air defense is only meant to punish these tactics and allow a little balance in the have control/don't have control department. These wouldn't be universally used and abused counters. I imagine a system that relies on frames and only triggers after you've descended (as opposed to ascended) for a set amount of time between jabs and requires an input that corresponds with what move is used (juggler uses 2, defender needs to input b+2. juggler = 1+2, defender = b+1+2). This way here, bnb spamming can be thwarted AND can lead to more creative juggles. Especially unorthodox timing and set ups.

The effect? Just a simple block with similar block recovery as standard moves and blocks. I don't imagine this breaking the game. It just gives something to the yawning opponent watching boring juggles for a quarter of a minute.

Bolded what I feel might be ignored. This option is only triggered when there has been a specific amount of time between hits as your character falls.

 

[SDBurton]

Yeah, I don't think there will be in-game footage at Comic-Con but you never know.

Also, Comic-Con is where TKXSF and SFXTK were originally revealed. So maybe.....maaaayyyyybe, we might get a TKXSF reveal three and we'll then know for sure of the 2/3 projects Harada is working on. But this is being very optimistic.

What are you doing Sayah! Don't get my hopes up!

 

[Dereck]

I still find it funny people want a return to this magical time when Tekken was not about juggles that in reality never existed.

Boom

 

[Sayah]

What are you doing Sayah! Don't get my hopes up!

Yeah, I'm being too optimistic. haha,

My dream conjecture: TKXSF is supposed to be focused on consoles so if they can release that early, it would be amazing and would make the wait for the eventual Tekken 7 Arcade to Console transfer much easier. I think this is one potential way that they can announce these two games close to each other without inducing cannibalism. Of course, this is also dependent on how far the development for these titles has progressed.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Boom

I think the real issue is people wanting a time when no one used them (either pre-online Tekken or before it became pro). While I may sit in that nostalgic clinic myself, it's more to do with design, atmosphere and scenario structure, rather than combo length (despite my briging up an air-defense option).

I think anyone who recognizes my name in Tekken threads knows how much I've whined about character design stagnation and customization and their incorporation in various modes and not necessarily about the gameplay.

 

[Amaya]

That's the one I'm talking about. That teaser never mentioned anything about Tekken 6. It was just a promo done for Sony for a game that would eventually begin production.[/QUOTE]

okay I see what you mean. which reminds me, I hope Tekken 7 isn't cartoonish like Tekken Revolution. Hope the graphics are even more realistic.

 

[AAK]

While I may sit in that nostalgic clinic myself, it's more to do with design, atmosphere and scenario structure, rather than combo length (despite my briging up an air-defense option).

Yeah, from the trailer Heihachi and Kazuya are still wearing the exact identical clothes since T5:

Not expecting a massive character design change this time around either.

 

[Dereck]

Why would you think that trailer is indicative of the actual game's costumes?

 

[Dahbomb]

I would agree. In each person's little bubble at home they believed whatever they thought about Tekken. They were just not exposed to the realities of the game. In an era with no online play & the internet still in it's infincy it was easy not to see how Tekken was suppose to be played. In the 2000s that all changed & with it the perception of Tekken to the masses.

Yeah I would agree with this.

Tekken went from being the "button mashing" fighting game that people played for shits and giggles while they mashed with Eddy to being this inapproachable super hardcore fighting game that only people who have spent years playing Tekken can even play it.

 

[AAK]

Why would you think that trailer is indicative of the actual game's costumes?

It makes sense I guess. This is how they chose to reveal the 2 main characters of Tekken 7 and so this is the first impression everyone has in their mind about the game. I think it's a safe bet.

 

[Dereck]

smh if it turns out to be true

 

[AAK]

Wait... I'm just too used to the Heihachi from Tekken 3 with his CEO outfit and the crazy geta outfit. I completely forgot that Kazuya and Heihachi are 2 of the few characters that have had the same core outfit since Tekken 1:

It was the other characters that would get unique outfits every Tekken before T5.

 

[DEATH™]

In an excerpt somewhere I read Harada is trying to get each char's default costumes to be "iconic", like when people think of Ryu, they automatically remember that muscular guy with the white karate gi.

The most change we can expect is the secondary costumes, and technically, nobody uses or notices them...

 

[Sayah]

It makes sense I guess. This is how they chose to reveal the 2 main characters of Tekken 7 and so this is the first impression everyone has in their mind about the game. I think it's a safe bet.

All the characters are long overdue for a new look. Then again, 2P costumes have always been different soooooo......I don't know.

 

[LowParry]

All the characters are long overdue for a new look. Then again, 2P costumes have always been different soooooo......I don't know.

I guess it will boil down to, how many years have passed after Tekken 6? Do we just continue right off or go a few more years ahead.

 

[Sayah]

I guess it will boil down to, how many years have passed after Tekken 6? Do we just continue right off or go a few more years ahead.

I personally would love if they looked back to Tekken 4 for costumes....and I think many other people would too.

 

[Lambda Pie]

I guess it will boil down to, how many years have passed after Tekken 6? Do we just continue right off or go a few more years ahead.

i really wish this was a TK2-to-TK3 style timeskip.

 

[LowParry]

I personally would love if they looked back to Tekken 4 for costumes....and I think many other people would too.

Agreed. You see this?

Gimme gimme gimme!

 

[AAK]

In an excerpt somewhere I read Harada is trying to get each char's default costumes to be "iconic", like when people think of Ryu, they automatically remember that muscular guy with the white karate gi.

The most change we can expect is the secondary costumes, and technically, nobody uses or notices them...

I completely disagree with Harada on the "look" part. What made the characters iconic for me was their animations and their hit sparks. The changing outfits was always special. Just looking at King for example:

Tekken 1:

Tekken 2:

Tekken 3/Tag:

Tekken 4:

Tekken 5:

But man... for too long we've been stuck with this same outfit from T5.0,T5DR,T6.0,T6BR,TTT2, and finally TTT2:U:

Please bring back those fresh looks you were so good at Namco!

 

[ZenTzen]

In an excerpt somewhere I read Harada is trying to get each char's default costumes to be "iconic", like when people think of Ryu, they automatically remember that muscular guy with the white karate gi.

The most change we can expect is the secondary costumes, and technically, nobody uses or notices them...

i can see that, i cant picture jin without is black pants with the fire design, or paul without is red gi or biker outfit, or nina with a purple outfit

 

[MrCookiepants]

Tekken 4 was an anomaly. A lot of the character designs haven't changed at all since Tekken 2.

Same costume, just updated.

And again. I don't mind keeping the iconic costumes as long as we have a unique 2P alternative and GOOD customization options.

 

[Dice]

I haven't played Tekken since 4 (well, maybe dabbled in 5 but didnt really feel it out) and was never really deep into it, only a moderate Xiaoyu in 3, but have they introduced any sort of combo breaker system? It's so combo and juggle heavy I feel it really needs that sort of thing to stay interesting, especially with all the badass stuff KI is doing on XBone.

 

[Dereck]

There needs to be more than 1 alternate costume.

 

[ZenTzen]

I completely disagree with Harada on the "look" part. What made the characters iconic for me was their animations and their hit sparks. The changing outfits was always special. Just looking at King for example:

Please bring back those fresh looks you were so good at Namco!

except costumes havent really changed that much, king still had the blue wrestling pants in tekken 2, and if i remember correctly he also had the purple pants in tekken 3 all the way to ttt2, while secondary costumes have always been for the most part unique

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Tekken 4 was an anomaly. A lot of the character designs haven't changed at all since Tekken 2.



Same costume, just updated.



And again. I don't mind keeping the iconic costumes as long as we have a unique 2P alternative and GOOD customization options.

But you're posting Tekken 5 comparison pics, the game that retreaded past game designs and never changed since. Tekken 2 added unique alt outfits and some new main outfits. Tekken changed the age of characters, swapped out old designs for new designs and even offered new characters (many in place of past characters). Tekken 4 drastically changed designs. Tekken 5 was almost like a "T4 didn't happen so here's a new, natural progression from T3".... and then they stopped.

 

[AAK]

There needs to be more than 1 alternate costume.

Real Talk.... Namco screwed up royally with TTT2. How embarassing must it be to have tens of thousands of people watching the top 8 finals and this is what they saw:

except costumes havent really changed that much, king still had the blue wrestling pants in tekken 2, and if i remember correctly he also had the purple pants in tekken 3 all the way to ttt2, while secondary costumes have always been for the most part unique

That's the thing, they've been exactly the same for 10 years. (Minus one or two new outfits like Nina's T6 casual one.)

 

[synce]

You guys think the full trailer has some gameplay?

I'm not aware of any high profile games showing off debut gameplay at Comic Con, I think it's just going to be an extension of what we saw and some talking from Harada

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

except costumes havent really changed that much, king still had the blue wrestling pants in tekken 2, and if i remember correctly he also had the purple pants in tekken 3 all the way to ttt2, while secondary costumes have always been for the most part unique

They (King's pants) still changed. There's a difference between maintaining a similar silhouette or overall design and having the EXACT same design.

Kazuya can still have off-white bottoms, but do we need to see that same design/texture going down the leg of a thick-stitched gi?

 

[Lambda Pie]

pics of King

you just picked alternates, the 1P costume has largely been the same yellow/blue/black Tiger Mask style gear, only exception being Tekken 4 of course:

 

[AAK]

you just picked alternates, the 1P costume has largely been the same yellow/blue/black Tiger Mask style gear, only exception being Tekken 4 of course:

You can still see subtle differences.... Tekken 5 ---> TTT2 has all been the EXACT SAME.

 

[Sayah]

I haven't played Tekken since 4 (well, maybe dabbled in 5 but didnt really feel it out) and was never really deep into it, only a moderate Xiaoyu in 3, but have they introduced any sort of combo breaker system? It's so combo and juggle heavy I feel it really needs that sort of thing to stay interesting, especially with all the badass stuff KI is doing on XBone.

As far as combo breaking goes, True Ogre is the only one in TTT2 that has the ability to break combos.....however, in the attempt to break combos, True Ogre players can also risk extending the combos even further. Don't have a video example to show off-hand. Maybe someone else does.

I'm not aware of any high profile games showing off debut gameplay at Comic Con, I think it's just going to be an extension of what we saw and some talking from Harada

Street Fighter X Tekken