J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I still don't get why Nocturne isn't on PSN like P3FES...
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The History of (core) Shin Megami Tensei: study the origins of IV!
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
cj_iwakura
Member
SMT III spoilers, then(I hope you at least know who the main characters are):
Hikawa, a former Gaian cultist before the Conception, causes the apocalypse to bring about a World of Order, basically. He's sort of an uber-Messian. He wants a world of stillness where everything is unchanging, people at the top stay in power and everyone else does as they say. Essentially the Law ending.
Your teacher, Yuko Takao, reluctantly helped him, but starts to turn away from his ideals after the Conception. Instead, she takes up the ideals of Aradia, a Wiccan Goddess of falsehood and deception. She then implores you to rebuild the world as it was. That's the Neutral ending. (Hikawa eventually kills her.)
Chiaki, one of your friends, is coerced by Gozu-Tennoh into taking on his ideals of a world of strength where the strong rule and the weak die. She's the Chaos ideal. If you decide to side with her, you have to kill her to prove you're worthy.
Your other friend, Isamu, takes on a new ideal called Musubi: stillness, where nothing will ever interrupt your own perfect world.
Then there's the True Demon end. Lucifer. The old man and the young boy are revealed as separate halves of his true form, the wise and the innocent.
Lucifer reveals his true goal, to help you become stronger, so you can lead his demons in a war on God.
He tells you to kill all of the other Reason leaders, destroying any chance of the world being remade, so to bring the fight straight to the Great Will: Yahweh.
The True Demon end is largely considered canon, with the main character leading an army of demons in an onslaught against Heaven.
Your teacher, Yuko Takao, reluctantly helped him, but starts to turn away from his ideals after the Conception. Instead, she takes up the ideals of Aradia, a Wiccan Goddess of falsehood and deception. She then implores you to rebuild the world as it was. That's the Neutral ending. (Hikawa eventually kills her.)
Chiaki, one of your friends, is coerced by Gozu-Tennoh into taking on his ideals of a world of strength where the strong rule and the weak die. She's the Chaos ideal. If you decide to side with her, you have to kill her to prove you're worthy.
Your other friend, Isamu, takes on a new ideal called Musubi: stillness, where nothing will ever interrupt your own perfect world.
Then there's the True Demon end. Lucifer. The old man and the young boy are revealed as separate halves of his true form, the wise and the innocent.
Lucifer reveals his true goal, to help you become stronger, so you can lead his demons in a war on God.
He tells you to kill all of the other Reason leaders, destroying any chance of the world being remade, so to bring the fight straight to the Great Will: Yahweh.
The True Demon end is largely considered canon, with the main character leading an army of demons in an onslaught against Heaven.
@cj_iwakura
I still think the light neutral ending is canon. The true demon ending is only in Maniax, basically making the added ending canon is like retconning the original version.
The true demon ending is the only one I got, though.
I don't replay to see all the endings.
And it's interesting how they swapped around the alignments and the cultures associated with them in Nocturne. SJ and IV kind of follow these new associations, even though the angels are on the law side and gaea is chaos again. What Nocturne started was to tone down the Christian elements and the historical WWII references. Which did make the game easier marketable in the West, I guess.
Having the angels be associated with the rule of the strong wasn't exactly new either, as I pointed out with the MT2 endings.
I still think the light neutral ending is canon. The true demon ending is only in Maniax, basically making the added ending canon is like retconning the original version.
The true demon ending is the only one I got, though.
I don't replay to see all the endings.And it's interesting how they swapped around the alignments and the cultures associated with them in Nocturne. SJ and IV kind of follow these new associations, even though the angels are on the law side and gaea is chaos again. What Nocturne started was to tone down the Christian elements and the historical WWII references. Which did make the game easier marketable in the West, I guess.
Having the angels be associated with the rule of the strong wasn't exactly new either, as I pointed out with the MT2 endings.
sixteen-bit
Member
Shin Megami Tensei Nine isn't a core SMT game?
cj_iwakura
Member
It's a fine coaster.
I believe HE is called Hazama, not Kazama ;P
Awesome thread BTW.
Here is a small contribution [SPOILER WARNING]
In Shin Megami Tensei if... we have an astonishing character called Ootsuki. An ordinary guy with a weak body, who spends his time in his laboratory.
He is constantly repeating -to whoever wants to listen or not- that the human body is build up of plasma and thus blood vessel. That's why he must never go out without defense.
He thinks purely as a scientific and through his delirium he came up with some foolish ideas.
He simply wants to become stronger than the common human beings made of plasma.
Rapidly beaten in the Makai (the demon world), he joins hazama/Majinnou's side and becomes his right hand.
Of course, stupid Ootsuki is still weak and doesn't realize that Hazama is manipulating him. Nevertheless his foolishness and scientific madness in his conquest to become stronger drives him to implant various pieces of metal into his body.
The 2nd time when the player meets him, he is proud to show his "healed" body with a metal arm. The next confrontation can be different depending on the player's partner, but in general Majinnou will order the player to go and destroy his own pawn Ootsuki. In fact Majinnou is always considering Ootsuki a weak being, a trash of some sort who is seeking a power which he will never get.
He is destroyed easily for the 3rd time dispite his new "plasma power" as he claims it. He justify his defeat because his not perfect/complete yet.
When the hero comes back from the Makai's center, Ootsuki's finally finished remodeling his body. That didn't prevent him from being demolished again, easily.
I love this character because he's a reference to Shinya Tsukamoto, a movie director known for his very experimental work based on sadomasochistic insanity and corporal mutations to gain power.
Ootsuki not only reminds Tsukamoto's works but also Tsukamoto himself who often plays the protagonist in his films.
Other than that Ootsuki plays a redundant role in SMT if... like Daleth in SMTII or Ramsus in Xenogears, the definition of a looser who never reaches his goal. He's nevertheless impressive with his strong will, his madness and attraction for metal.
Awesome thread BTW.
Here is a small contribution [SPOILER WARNING]
In Shin Megami Tensei if... we have an astonishing character called Ootsuki. An ordinary guy with a weak body, who spends his time in his laboratory.
He is constantly repeating -to whoever wants to listen or not- that the human body is build up of plasma and thus blood vessel. That's why he must never go out without defense.
He thinks purely as a scientific and through his delirium he came up with some foolish ideas.
He simply wants to become stronger than the common human beings made of plasma.
Rapidly beaten in the Makai (the demon world), he joins hazama/Majinnou's side and becomes his right hand.
Of course, stupid Ootsuki is still weak and doesn't realize that Hazama is manipulating him. Nevertheless his foolishness and scientific madness in his conquest to become stronger drives him to implant various pieces of metal into his body.
The 2nd time when the player meets him, he is proud to show his "healed" body with a metal arm. The next confrontation can be different depending on the player's partner, but in general Majinnou will order the player to go and destroy his own pawn Ootsuki. In fact Majinnou is always considering Ootsuki a weak being, a trash of some sort who is seeking a power which he will never get.
He is destroyed easily for the 3rd time dispite his new "plasma power" as he claims it. He justify his defeat because his not perfect/complete yet.
When the hero comes back from the Makai's center, Ootsuki's finally finished remodeling his body. That didn't prevent him from being demolished again, easily.
I love this character because he's a reference to Shinya Tsukamoto, a movie director known for his very experimental work based on sadomasochistic insanity and corporal mutations to gain power.
Ootsuki not only reminds Tsukamoto's works but also Tsukamoto himself who often plays the protagonist in his films.
Other than that Ootsuki plays a redundant role in SMT if... like Daleth in SMTII or Ramsus in Xenogears, the definition of a looser who never reaches his goal. He's nevertheless impressive with his strong will, his madness and attraction for metal.