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[whatsinaname]

So I very recently learned of the mess that has become of this year Hugo awards (the seeds of which might have been sown a couple of years ago).

A group of people have been campaigning and bloc voting for nominations, with the group's efforts being directed towards "balancing" what they see as nominations and wins that have been moving away from more established/conservative writers.

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/hugo-award-nominees-sad-puppies/

Each year, the Hugo Awards are voted on by paid members of Worldcon, the World Science Fiction Convention. Fans nominate their favorite books, movies, and commentators, and the most popular choices make it onto a shortlist of five nominees per category. People then vote for the eventual winners, which are revealed at Worldcon in August.

This year's nominees were announced on Saturday, and most of them came directly from a Gamergate-affiliated campaign known as Sad Puppies. By bloc-voting for a specific slate of anti-progressive authors, editors, and fans, the Sad Puppies managed to game the selection process in every major category. And yes, they did choose that name for themselves.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...puppies_took_over_the_sci_fi_nominations.html

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (last year), the Hugo Awards seemed to undergo a seismic change. Top prizes recognized a generation of younger, more diverse writers, with names like Ann Leckie, Kameron Hurley, and John Chu, and fans celebrated what appeared to be enriched levels of awareness/receptivity in the air. But then things took a distinctly Gamergate-tinged turn. Authors Brad R. Torgerson and Larry Correia re-upped a campaign called Sad Puppies (originally “Sad Puppies Think of the Children,” an ironic send-up of liberal bleeding hearts) that had achieved modest success in 2014, elevating a few ordained works to that year’s Hugo longlist.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/apr/09/george-rr-martin-right-wing-broken-hugo-awards

http://grrm.livejournal.com/417125.html

George RR Martin has waded into the “nasty, nasty fight” surrounding this year’s Hugo awards, laying out why he believes that a group of right-wing science fiction writers have “broken” the prestigious prize beyond repair.

The shortlists for the long-running American genre awards, won in the past by names from Kurt Vonnegut to Ursula K Le Guin and voted for by fans, were announced this weekend to uproar in the science fiction community, after it emerged that the line-up corresponded closely with the slates of titles backed by certain conservative writers. The self-styled “Sad Puppies” campaigners had set out to combat what orchestrator and writer Brad Torgersen had criticised as the Hugos’ tendency to reward “literary” and “ideological” works.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

The self-styled “Sad Puppies” campaigners had set out to combat what orchestrator and writer Brad Torgersen had criticised as the Hugos’ tendency to reward “literary” and “ideological” works.

...

Uhh....

Word?

 

[Valhelm]

George R. R. Martin's reaction to losing that prize always bothers me. He's such a talented writer, and it's a shock to see him behave so childishly.

 

[Makonero]

Can't have any o' dis here lit-ra-shur in our sci fi book awards, no sir

 

[Valhelm]

...

Uhh....

Word?

A lot of science fiction and fantasy writers believe that too much attention is given to headier writers who prize themes and prose over world-building and speculative content.

They've been doing this for decades, and then somebody like Karen Russell comes along, from a very different background, to publish something more cerebral that only vaguely touches on fantasy.

 

[marrec]

OMG they got Vox Day nominated again in addition to shitting up the rest of the lists.

*sigh*

 

[FourMyle]

Yeah the Hugo is pretty much a joke now. So many right wing/racist nut jobs in SF, ugh.

 

[berzeli]

io9 has a surprisingly good write-up on this sad state of affairs. "The Hugo Awards Were Always Political. But Now They're Only Political."

It is really sad to see how a group of far right dirtbags can sabotage an entire awards show.

 

[pootle]

I just want this year's Campbellian anthology to be released. The last 2 were fantastic, especially last year's.

 

[marrec]

io9 has a surprisingly good write-up on this sad state of affairs. "The Hugo Awards Were Always Political. But Now They're Only Political."

It is really sad to see how a group of far right dirtbags can sabotage an entire awards show.

It's about time they change the voting process, it's been shit for decades but now that dirtbags coalescing on the net it's more possible than ever to get shit nominated for a Hugo.

No Awards as far as the eye can see.

 

[Carcetti]

The worst thing is that they got Kevin J. Anderson nominated just because 'he deserves it'. Guess the puppies really hate 'literary' works. I've read some of Anderson's books and they were Bad. Seven Suns series I can accept since it's his own work but the Dune prequels he produced were the literary equivalent of someone literally shitting on Frank Herbert's legacy.

The Vox Day right wing fascist / white supremacist bloc is something I can't even wrap my mind around, but the more moderate Sad Puppies list is pretty sad when you look at Torgersen's ideology. He just wants scifi to be about only tits, rockets, and rayguns again with no sociological commentary. It's like he skipped 60 years of books from Heinlein to Stanislaw Lem.

 

[whatsinaname]

It's about time they change the voting process, it's been shit for decades but now that dirtbags coalescing on the net it's more possible than ever to get shit nominated for a Hugo.

No Awards as far as the eye can see.

It was interesting to read about the voting process too. It looks like any voting rules change takes 2 years to go into effect. This current issue will repeat in 2016 too.

 

[rakhir]

The worst thing is that they got Kevin J. Anderson nominated just because 'he deserves it'. Guess the puppies really hate 'literary' works. I've read some of Anderson's books and they were Bad. Seven Suns series I can accept since it's his own work but the Dune prequels he produced were the literary equivalent of someone literally shitting on Frank Herbert's legacy.

K.J. Andersons' Star Wars books were the worst thing ever, other writers (Stackpole in particular) had to write around his stuff to make it less shit.

I read a lot of fun SF and Fantasy books by current Polish authors and ignored the sometimes really right wing spin some characters were showing in them. Lately i realised that those authors have those ideas themselves and that those funny dumb characters from their books are ment to be taken seriously. It really bothers me now, i've pretty much stopped reading all of them altogether.

 

[Carcetti]

K.J. Andersons' Star Wars books were the worst thing ever, other writers (Stackpole in particular) had to write around his stuff to make it less shit.

I believe that. Pretty much proves that like GG, those wingnut blocs actually do the opposite they say. They claim to be oppressed by ideology but they only vote based on ideology, not merit.

 

[Platy]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :

A few decades ago, if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds. If you saw a barbarian swinging an axe? You were going to get a rousing fantasy epic with broad-chested heroes who slay monsters, and run off with beautiful women.

[But now] The book has a spaceship on the cover, but is it really going to be a story about space exploration and pioneering derring-do? Or is the story merely about racial prejudice and exploitation…A planet, framed by a galactic backdrop. Could it be an actual bona fide space opera? Heroes and princesses and laser blasters? No, wait. It’s about sexism and the oppression of women.Finally, a book with a painting of a person wearing a mechanized suit of armor! Holding a rifle! War story ahoy! Nope, wait. It’s actually about gay and transgender issues.

....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS


[edit : can't wait about Gaiman's text about this]

 

[Carcetti]

No kidding. Picking up Forever War would probably kill that guy.

 

[Buzzman]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :




A few decades ago, if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds. If you saw a barbarian swinging an axe? You were going to get a rousing fantasy epic with broad-chested heroes who slay monsters, and run off with beautiful women.

[But now] The book has a spaceship on the cover, but is it really going to be a story about space exploration and pioneering derring-do? Or is the story merely about racial prejudice and exploitation…A planet, framed by a galactic backdrop. Could it be an actual bona fide space opera? Heroes and princesses and laser blasters? No, wait. It’s about sexism and the oppression of women.Finally, a book with a painting of a person wearing a mechanized suit of armor! Holding a rifle! War story ahoy! Nope, wait. It’s actually about gay and transgender issues.



....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS

Isn't this literally the gamergate argument?

Edit: Oh wait, Sad puppies actually is a GG affiliate. Should've read the OP better.

 

[Carcetti]

Isn't this literally the gamergate argument?

Yeah, it's the exact same one.

'We demand ideology-free entertainment.' which translates to 'I want works that only endorse my personal ideology'

 

[Korigama]

Wow, never knew about any of this. Sad to see that award diminished as such.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :



....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS


[edit : can't wait about Gaiman's text about this]

Wasn't the genre originally about that stuff. They couldn't openly talk about these things so they hid it in books about far off kingdoms or outerspace.

 

[Par Score]

Just "No Award" every category and shut this shit down hard.

When your organisation is being repeatedly used as a platform by racist, fascist scumbags, it might be better to just burn the whole thing to the ground.

 

[Platy]

Isn't this literally the gamergate argument?

Yes, the diference is that you can KINDA understand how someone can see Tetris or Mario "without politics" but it is IMPOSSIBLE to begin to imagine someone who read any of the BIG sci fi in the LAST FORTY YEARS and didn't saw that it was political since the very begining.

I mean ....

 

[Yoritomo]

Torgersen plays the persecution card due to his mormonism...

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/shunning-and-radioactivity/

 

[Anton Sugar]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :



....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS


[edit : can't wait about Gaiman's text about this]

lololol

It's a good thing sci-fi has never been used to explore affecting human issues and ideas.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :



....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS


[edit : can't wait about Gaiman's text about this]

"I'm not asking for a lot, guys! All I'm saying is, shouldn't we be able to judge a book by its cover!?"

 

[cubicle47b]

I enjoyed reading GRRM's take on it and his tone blog entry, in particular.

 

[KingGondo]

Torgersen plays the persecution card due to his mormonism...

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/shunning-and-radioactivity/

Isn't Orson Scott Card also Mormon?

 

[Carcetti]

Torgersen plays the persecution card due to his mormonism...

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/shunning-and-radioactivity/

Of course he does. The argument is that white christian males are an oppressed group in modern scifi. The only problem is that it's a BS argument. Look at David Weber, who's a military scifi writer, and a lay minister, writes a ton about religion, and is hugely popular.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I don't like the idea of "art" being voted on by the larger public. Convene a small jury of authors, publishers, editors, journalists, etc. and just name some winners.

 

[cirrhosis]

Seeing Torgersen champion this thing really hurt.

I picked up his Out of the Light collection a couple of years ago and generally enjoyed most of the pieces. Chaplain's War probably would've received some acclaim on its own if this shitshow never happened.

Can't even read his blog any longer either.

 

[whatsinaname]

I don't like the idea of "art" being voted on by the larger public. Convene a small jury of authors, publishers, editors, journalists, etc. and just name some winners.

Well, isn't that happens with the Oscars? Similar issues seem to crop up there too.

 

[metalslimer]

Isn't Orson Scott Card also Mormon?

And Brandon Sanderson, who I really would hate to find out supports any of this.

 

[Delta Assault]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen :



....they hate sci fi that has metaphors about racial prejudice, sexism and lgbt issues.

....DID THOSE GUYS EVER READ ANY SCI FI CLASSIC ?

From Asimov to Star Trek The Original Series it is ALL FULL OF THIS


[edit : can't wait about Gaiman's text about this]

Boy, that's silly. I mean, not every sci-fi has to be an in-your-face message like a guy with one half of his face black and the other white fighting a guy with one half of his face white and the other black, but he's just written off a huge chunk of sci-fi.

And good stories are just good stories, period. I feel like a person of any particular political persuasion can read Heinlein's Starship Troopers and then turn around and read Haldeman's The Forever War and find both entertaining and thoughtful and well-written.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Wasn't the genre originally about that stuff. They couldn't openly talk about these things so they hid it in books about far off kingdoms or outerspace.

I've always associated sci-fi with some sort of political or social message. I thought that was the whole point of the genre, to comment on today from a future perspective. 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, etc.

Just "No Award" every category and shut this shit down hard.

When your organisation is being repeatedly used as a platform by racist, fascist scumbags, it might be better to just burn the whole thing to the ground.

That would be so punk rock. I love it.

 

[Cybit]

Reading through the list of nominees (oblivious to who pushed what or what have you)

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2015/04/2015-hugo-award-nominees

Best Novel: Dresden Files are an awesome series of books
Best Novella, Novellette, Short Story, Related Work - Don't know any of them
Best Graphic Story: Ms Marvel is awesome
Dramatic Presentation (Long Form): Cap 2, GotG, and the Lego Movie - ok, those are pretty good choices
Dramatic Presentation (Short Form): Holy crap this one is stacked. Flash, GoT, Dr Who, and Orphan Black?

Rest I don't care about.

Are the Best Novel / Graphic Story / Dramatic Presentations actually controversial? Or are the other ones the ones that are more controversial?

 

[Ophelion]

What's that? Is that the pitiful wails of tiny men, incapable of turning worthy words? It would almost be funny if it wasn't so sad to watch these fools flail into irrelevancy.

Oh, Sad Puppies, it's not that the mean ol' minorities are picking on you.

It's that your ideas are old.

And that your ideas are bad.

And that your prose sucks.

Astoundingly, regurgitating the same weatherworn ideas with slightly different packaging in a medium where you can tell a story about literally anything turns out to be not the best way to win awards.

Stunning, I know.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Well, isn't that happens with the Oscars? Similar issues seem to crop up there too.

Oscars are also a joke.

Most festivals have jury prizes, and festivals make more interesting choices. Every Cannes winner is watchable and interesting, but you can't say the same for the Oscars. Sometimes if feels like the Oscar winners are just films that the majority agree were "pretty good" while Cannes may have some decisive choices you still get the feeling that the winner was *someones* favourite film that year.

 

[crowphoenix]

Isn't this literally the gamergate argument?

Edit: Oh wait, Sad puppies actually is a GG affiliate. Should've read the OP better.

The RabidPuppies is the name of the GamerGate component of the Sad Puppies.

 

[Yoritomo]

George RR Martin published a long blog post about it yesterday.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/417521.html

 

[marrec]

Reading through the list of nominees (oblivious to who pushed what or what have you)

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2015/04/2015-hugo-award-nominees

Best Novel: Dresden Files are an awesome series of books
Best Novella, Novellette, Short Story, Related Work - Don't know any of them
Best Graphic Story: Ms Marvel is awesome
Dramatic Presentation (Long Form): Cap 2, GotG, and the Lego Movie - ok, those are pretty good choices
Dramatic Presentation (Short Form): Holy crap this one is stacked. Flash, GoT, Dr Who, and Orphan Black?

Rest I don't care about.

Are the Best Novel / Graphic Story / Dramatic Presentations actually controversial? Or are the other ones the ones that are more controversial?

The Novella, novellette, short story, and related work categories are one to one copies of the Sad Puppies list. Best novel is similar as well with a few exceptions.

Then you get down to Best Editor categories and just have a nice long laugh.

Side Note: As much as I appreciate Butcher and the Dresden Files as a whole (I've never actually read the books) it's never struck me as a Hugo Award winning series.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Reading through the list of nominees (oblivious to who pushed what or what have you)

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2015/04/2015-hugo-award-nominees

Wow, the film category is all American big-tent, that's really sad.

 

[Cybit]

Oscars are also a joke.

Most festivals have jury prizes, and festivals make more interesting choices. Every Cannes winner is watchable and interesting, but you can't say the same for the Oscars. Sometimes if feels like the Oscar winners are just films that the majority agree were "pretty good" while Cannes may have some decisive choices you still get the feeling that the winner was *someones* favourite film that year.

There's always a tension between "critical darling" and "fan favorite" in entertainment (among other places). Part of the reason the Oscars have faded (IMO) recently in import is that they sometimes may overthink the "critical darling" aspect, and have often downplayed very good movies purely because they were "blockbusters". The LotR trilogy was one of them - it was an open secret that they were going to wait till the last movie to give them the awards that they may have deserved earlier.

I can get that very basic part of the argument - XYZ awards show has become insular and are too busy congratulating themselves on these little artsy ish nominees because they want to be counter-culture and will discount good nominees that happen to be popular in the mainstream (I'd argue that Winter Soldier and/or Guardians could have been a reasonable Best Picture nominee, for instance) - and we want to make sure that popularity doesn't inherently hurt the critical discourse around a book / movie / etc.

But reading the articles on io9 and such - it sounds like they either went too far in their viewpoint, or they're using the "popular stuff is inherently discounted" to cover a more conservative viewpoint about what books "should" be.

 

[Intheflorsh]

OP forgot my favorite quote from the SadPuppies headmaster Brad Torgersen

If this guy wants sci fi with no subtext or political themes, maybe he should just start watching Saturday morning cartoons.

 

[whatsinaname]

There's always a tension between "critical darling" and "fan favorite" in entertainment (among other places). Part of the reason the Oscars have faded (IMO) recently in import is that they sometimes may overthink the "critical darling" aspect, and have often downplayed very good movies purely because they were "blockbusters". The LotR trilogy was one of them - it was an open secret that they were going to wait till the last movie to give them the awards that they may have deserved earlier.

I can get that very basic part of the argument - XYZ awards show has become insular and are too busy congratulating themselves on these little artsy ish nominees because they want to be counter-culture and will discount good nominees that happen to be popular in the mainstream (I'd argue that Winter Soldier and/or Guardians could have been a reasonable Best Picture nominee, for instance) - and we want to make sure that popularity doesn't inherently hurt the critical discourse around a book / movie / etc.

But reading the articles on io9 and such - it sounds like they either went too far in their viewpoint, or they're using the "popular stuff is inherently discounted" to cover a more conservative viewpoint about what books "should" be.

There is also the other aspect that many of the voters do not seem to separate the work from the creator. You see this in the Oscars with people voting for a director or actor instead of that particular instance of their work.

 

[Delta Assault]

I've always associated sci-fi with some sort of political or social message. I thought that was the whole point of the genre, to comment on today from a future perspective. 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, etc.

I wouldn't extend it quite that far. I think sci-fi is usually conveying an idea or message (which goes for any literature), but I don't feel like it always has to be a political or social message.

When I think of the best Star Trek movie, Wrath of Khan, there are themes there, but I don't consider them to be of a political or social nature. It's about feeling old and obsolete, death, and rebirth. Way down the list, there's the idea of not tampering with weapons of mass destruction that can reform planets, I guess. That's not really at the forefront of the story.

You look at the best Star Trek episodes... Best of Both Worlds. There's no real political or social message. I mean, the story is about Riker feeling uncomfortable about moving away from the Enterprise and assuming the captain's chair. And then being forced to step out of the shadow of a great man when Picard gets captured and becomes the enemy. I suppose you could consider the Borg a metaphor for conformism or communism or totalitarianism or something like that, but that's not really what's driving the story.

The Inner Light is about treasuring life and making the most of it.

The Visitor is about the bond between a father and a son transcending time.

Sci-fi is such a rich field... it's a vehicle for so many different ideas and concepts that it's selling it short to say it's only about political and social messages.

 

[Tragicomedy]

We need our resident Hugo Award winner to hop in here and spill the beans. Aidan Moher?

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

Yeah, it's the exact same one.

'We demand ideology-free entertainment.' which translates to 'I want works that only endorse my personal ideology'

The problem is that "literary" doesn't just mean "ideological". So what the fuck are they going on about wanting literary elements out of these books? Thinking is too hard?

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

There's always a tension between "critical darling" and "fan favorite" in entertainment (among other places). Part of the reason the Oscars have faded (IMO) recently in import is that they sometimes may overthink the "critical darling" aspect, and have often downplayed very good movies purely because they were "blockbusters". The LotR trilogy was one of them - it was an open secret that they were going to wait till the last movie to give them the awards that they may have deserved earlier.

I can get that very basic part of the argument - XYZ awards show has become insular and are too busy congratulating themselves on these little artsy ish nominees because they want to be counter-culture and will discount good nominees that happen to be popular in the mainstream (I'd argue that Winter Soldier and/or Guardians could have been a reasonable Best Picture nominee, for instance) - and we want to make sure that popularity doesn't inherently hurt the critical discourse around a book / movie / etc.

But reading the articles on io9 and such - it sounds like they either went too far in their viewpoint, or they're using the "popular stuff is inherently discounted" to cover a more conservative viewpoint about what books "should" be.

The winter soldier and GoG are reasonable Best Picture nominees? So I guess we should forget about good writing and characterization and acting and cinematography and directing. Just nominate them because people like that.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

George R. R. Martin's reaction to losing that prize always bothers me. He's such a talented writer, and it's a shock to see him behave so childishly.

What happened with this?

 

[Mutanthands]

I just read the io9 article, and the linked article about racism in the sci-fi community at the end

I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still very disappointed. It seems like things are about to turn the corner, and then the ugly side of human nature jumps out to pull us right back.

The cognitive dissonance it takes to ignore the socially progressive elements of the great works of sci-fi and come to something like Sad Puppies...