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[timetokill]

So this has gotten all over my TL, so lemme see if I have this story straight:

These groups of "puppies", who are on the same ship as GamerGate, tried to rig these awards by making sure that their personal choices would be the only ones nominated for certain awards. The committee decides not to give them any of the awards, most likely due to said riggings. Now many of these puppies and more are taking all of this in by either 1. Acting like they don't care, which is obviously a lie because if they didn't, they wouldn't had done this in the first place, 2. Declaring this a victory because it shows that the awards are "rigged", even though they tried to rig it themselves and this was a counter against it, or 3. Whining and moaning about all of this, resulting in so much salt that Lot confused it for his wife.

Feel free to correct me or to add on anything I missed.

As far as summaries go, that's about the size of it, yeah.

 

[Popstar]

So this has gotten all over my TL, so lemme see if I have this story straight:

These groups of "puppies", who are on the same ship as GamerGate, tried to rig these awards by making sure that their personal choices would be the only ones nominated for certain awards. The committee decides not to give them any of the awards, most likely due to said riggings. Now many of these puppies and more are taking all of this in by either 1. Acting like they don't care, which is obviously a lie because if they didn't, they wouldn't had done this in the first place, 2. Declaring this a victory because it shows that the awards are "rigged", even though they tried to rig it themselves and this was a counter against it, or 3. Whining and moaning about all of this, resulting in so much salt that Lot confused it for his wife.

Feel free to correct me or to add on anything I missed.

There was no committee involvement. The awards are voted on by WorldCon attendees/members using a ranked alternative vote system. The rules allow a vote of 'No Award' if you don't think any of the nominees are deserving.

 

[besada]

All I want to know is did Black Science and/or Low get nominated?

No. They probably weren't eligible this year, but should be next year. Because they'll nominate the trade, the date of publication is set to the date the trade comes out, rather than when the original stories came out.
(Goes and looks it up)
The Low trade came out this April, so is eligible next year. Black Science trade was eligible, but missed the nomination cut off.

Black Science got beat out by Saga, Ms. Marvel(which won), Rat Queens, and Sex Criminals. The Puppies forced a zombie book on there, but even without it, Saga would have just been nominated twice.

(looks some more)
Well, looks like there were no noms for Black Science, which seems a shame, because it's amazing fun.

 

[Vyse24]

There was no committee involvement. The awards are voted on by WorldCon attendees/members using a ranked alternative vote system. The rules allow a vote of 'No Award' if you don't think any of the nominees are deserving.

Gotcha. Updated the summary to add this.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

resulting in so much salt that Lot confused it for his wife.

Legit lol'ed at this.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

No. They probably weren't eligible this year, but should be next year. Because they'll nominate the trade, the date of publication is set to the date the trade comes out, rather than when the original stories came out.
(Goes and looks it up)
The Low trade came out this April, so is eligible next year. Black Science trade was eligible, but missed the nomination cut off.

Black Science got beat out by Saga, Ms. Marvel(which won), Rat Queens, and Sex Criminals. The Puppies forced a zombie book on there, but even without it, Saga would have just been nominated twice.

(looks some more)
Well, looks like there were no noms for Black Science, which seems a shame, because it's amazing fun.

Doesn't Matt Fraction and Brian K. Vaughan get nominated every year?

Remender is putting out, IMO, some of the best Image books out there with Black Science, Low, and Deadly Class. He's long overdue for at least a nomination for one of those books. Tokyo Ghost might be his ticket to get one since he's working with Sean Murphy who is already an award winning popular artist and the book is looking stellar and unique compared to whats out.

 

[Aureon]

It is a standard ballot with the nominees and No Award as an option. If No Award gets the most votes then no one wins. It is a simple first past the post system so nominating slates was never the most effective way to win but the most effective way to stop your opponent from winning by keeping them off the ballot. Edit - it is not fptp it is a alternate vote system. As candidates are eliminated their votes are redistributed until someone (including No Award) gets 50%

"The Three Body Problem" got the most votes, So it won. However I am reading reviews, particularly the AV Club review and they seem to put it firmly within the kind of book advocated by the puppies (although I don't fully understand their cause because it seems idiotic). It is criticised for paper thin characters, reliance on hard science and very little social message. It doesn't sound like a good book.

http://www.avclub.com/review/cixin-lius-translated-three-body-problem-works-bet-211529

Yeah, read what you're commenting on before talking.
Three Body Problem is:
A) a fantastic book
B) an extremely harsh social critique of Maoist China and humanity as a whole
C) By a Chinese author
D) Not a Sad Puppies book, and actually replaced a Sad Puppies listing when a author retired it's submission

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Honestly I think that the modern perception that science fiction should all be about social commentary or be a rip roaring adventure with lasers is basically a side effect of science fiction losing a lot of it's ability to shock with visions of the future.

Social commentary in an imagined or alternate world like 1984 is just satire. There is nothing wrong with satire but if you are huge fan of satire then satire is what you are a fan of. Human drama like Gravity just about qualifies as science fiction because the issue of what happens when space junk becomes uncontrollable is a real concern. But that's so boooring compared to what science fiction has imagined in the past.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Yeah, read what you're commenting on before talking.
Three Body Problem is:
A) a fantastic book
B) an extremely harsh social critique of Maoist China and humanity as a whole
C) By a Chinese author
D) Not a Sad Puppies book, and actually replaced a Sad Puppies listing when a author retired it's submission

Vox Day, the (rather unpleasant) organizer of the Rabid Puppies slate, actually voted for TBP to win #1 and told all his followers to do the same. It wasn't on their nomination slate though: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/05/hugo-awards-2015-best-novel.html

Apparently he hated Ancillary Justice/Sword though. I guess because of the major empire not using male pronouns in their language?

I think all of the best novel nominees were great SF (regardless of whatever politics you want to find in them) except for KJA's book, which was okay but not award-worthy.

 

[Dresden]

Before I continue, I should explain to the reader that Mr. Hayden, and no one else, was the driving force behind the corruption of the Hugo Awards in these last fifteen to twenty years.

It was he who spearheaded the infiltration what had once been the fans’ award and expression of love for the most excellent work in the field.

It seemed that the monster known as Vox Day is a creation entirely of Mr. Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

So both the corruption of the Hugos AND the rebellion of the Rapid Puppies against that corruption are laid square at the doorstep of Mr. Hayden.

This is the man who ruined the Hugos, and is in the process of ruining Tor Books.

I am, in all modesty, a skilled author, one of the finest writing today.

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/

 

[Hrothgar]

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/

Why does this hope leap up in my heart? Because if Mr. Hayden were truly and utterly lost, it would not bother him to hear his support of contraception, abortion, sodomy and euthanasia called Christ-hatred. Christ said that we who love Him does what He says. Those who do the opposite, and who hate and persecute the body of Christ, hate Christ.

I... Wut...?

Am I reading the religious ramblings of a madman?

 

[Cyan]

Lol, straight up Batman-Joker "you made me!" shit? These guys really do think they're supervillains.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I couldn't read the whole thing. It's just a completely insane rant from a complete moron and a lunatic foaming at the mouth. Impressive, in a way.

 

[HK-47]

Doesn't Matt Fraction and Brian K. Vaughan get nominated every year?

Remender is putting out, IMO, some of the best Image books out there with Black Science, Low, and Deadly Class. He's long overdue for at least a nomination for one of those books. Tokyo Ghost might be his ticket to get one since he's working with Sean Murphy who is already an award winning popular artist and the book is looking stellar and unique compared to whats out.

Hugos arent that great at the non lit related awards IMO. People get too much inertia behind them. I also think they are terrible at picking movies.

 

[aidan]

Hugos arent that great at the non lit related awards IMO. People get too much inertia behind them. I also think they are terrible at picking movies.

*puts up his dukes*

Mary Robinette Kowal has a good, short piece on why this is about so much more than just a rocket trophy.

Historically, every time there’s an advance in the rights of a disenfranchised group, whether that’s women’s lib or desegregation, there’s a corresponding pushback by the dominant group because it feels like it is losing power.

What we’re seeing with the Hugo awards is that readers & writers who have not been represented in SFF (women, PoC, LGBT) are becoming prominent because of a larger zeitgeist that is trying to redress historic imbalances. Again, we see this in other communities as well. The pushback by the various Puppy contingents matches other historical pushbacks. On their side, they think that fiction is being dominated by “checkboxes” rather than quality, which is the same reaction people had to hiring women during women’s lib or minorities during the civil rights movement.

The reason that the Hugos are more important than just a rocket ship, is that the Puppies also reflect the larger societal pushbacks that we’re seeing against women, PoC, and LGBT. So the Hugos represent a battle in a much bigger fight.

 

[rakhir]

I liked the part where he modestly says that he's one of the best living writers while I couldn't keep up with his crazy theories.

Also, how can you make vox day a monster when he does it all himself?

 

[HK-47]

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/

Wright showing yet again that he is a troglodyte.

 

[Dan]

I liked the part where he modestly says that he's one of the best living writers while I couldn't keep up with his crazy theories.

Even ignoring the points he's allegedly trying to make, the grammar in that post is pretty awful.

 

[HK-47]

I liked the part where he modestly says that he's one of the best living writers while I couldn't keep up with his crazy theories.

Also, how can you make vox day a monster when he does it all himself?

Wright regularly sucks off Day. Day publishes him I believe.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

This salty train keeps on going XD;;;;

So much passive-aggressive grandstanding :> It's almost too hilarious :>

 

[whatsinaname]

Most of these sad puppies seem like people who would read Watchmen and come out thinking Rorschach is the greatest literary character ever written.

 

[HK-47]

Most of these sad puppies seem like people who would read Watchmen and come out thinking Rorschach is the greatest literary character ever written.

Rorschach is a great character though. =P

 

[aasoncott]

Yeah, read what you're commenting on before talking.
Three Body Problem is:
A) a fantastic book
B) an extremely harsh social critique of Maoist China and humanity as a whole
C) By a Chinese author
D) Not a Sad Puppies book, and actually replaced a Sad Puppies listing when a author retired it's submission

Hey, now, let's not go spreading lies and misinformation. There's enough of that going around already.

Spoiler

Having read it, I was shocked it was nominated, never mind won. Still trying to process that fact.

 

[Jintor]

Rorschach is a great character though. =P

He's a great character, he's also a broken severely damaged inflexible piece of crap

 

[HK-47]

He's a great character, he's also a broken severely damaged inflexible piece of crap

Thats what makes him great.

 

[whatsinaname]

Rorschach is a great character though. =P

True. I should have said "took him as a positive role model".

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/

What atrocious writing. An average GAF post has better prose.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I... Wut...?

Am I reading the religious ramblings of a madman?

yeah, I just briefly scanned the thing and it's pretty obvious he's gone full psychosis, with himself as the great saviour of all. Might be early stages of dementia, unfortunately.

looked at his works: never heard of any of them, and most of them sound like bad pulp titles. I'm by no means an expert though.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

What sort of author gets into science fiction but can't deal with atheists having too much influence?

 

[Brakke]

I tried so hard to understand this whole kerfuffle but just couldn't get there. I guess I've never really thought of books as things to have communities around. You read them alone on your roof and every once in a while you lend one to your buddy and he never gives it back but that's cool you've got a couple of his anyway. In fact didn't they only end up with a few thousand ballots cast anyway? It's such a tiny little community for the amount of ink it spilled.

 

[Nakho]

Has Terry Goodkind given his input yet? Extremely "curious" here.

 

[Mael]

What the fuck is going on?

 

[Prosopon]

.

 

[bengraven]

On the topic of scifi and fantasy books, I'm going to be reading this for the next few days - I'm always happy when a new Robin Hobb novel is released.

Like every book in the series, it's awesome, emotional, and frustrating as fuck. You'll love it!

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I feel like what sad puppies don't understand is that just because a certain science fiction book that touches on different themes isn't nominated doesn't automatically make the book or the author bad or worthy of reading. Just because I was upset Bayonetta 2 didn't win goty last year at the vga doesn't mean people hated it. I ain't salty though cuz at least it got nominated. Lol

 

[Seth Enosh]

For those of you who are unwilling to read the articles:

Some people are upset that society now expects them to have standards, and so they have rigged an annual science fiction book award in a futile attempt to change the fact that science fiction and fantasy are growing up as genres, by voting for authors that most people have never even heard about and whose works even a local used book store would be hard pressed to provide.

It's like gamergate but with books; same people, same motivations, same sad ulterior motives that are painfully obvious to everyone but them.

The puppy candidates for best novel who were on the final ballot, Jim Butcher and Kevin J. Anderson, are actually really accomplished authors who sell very well and make a full time living off their novels. I'm sure the Dresden Files can stand toe-to-toe with any other SF series in sales. Larry Correia, who declined the nomination the puppy slate gave him, is also a full time author who has multiple NYT best sellers. The sad puppy nominations for Best Editor were also from top selling publishers (Toni Weisskopf, etc.)

The rabid puppy candidates for the smaller stuff (novellas and short stories) seem to fit your description better though, I can't say I ever heard of John C. Wright before this or even Vox Day.

 

[Stinkles]

Like every book in the series, it's awesome, emotional, and frustrating as fuck. You'll love it!

I thought that series ended? I can't remember what happened Vis a Vis the fools gender but I remember being disappointed about some aspect.

 

[Yrael]

Like every book in the series, it's awesome, emotional, and frustrating as fuck. You'll love it!

I'm about halfway through and completely hooked. The Fool remains one of my favourite literary characters.

I thought that series ended? I can't remember what happened Vis a Vis the fools gender but I remember being disappointed about some aspect.

This is a new series called Fitz and the Fool (Fool's Assassin and Fool's Quest so far), set over a decade after the Tawny Man trilogy.

---

I like this summary of the Hugo results from Matthew Foster:

I dwell on how the pups cheated, on their racism, on the politics they brought in, on their anti-intellectual attitude, and on the low quality of the works they championed. I think about what this means, how it negates honors. I separate their offenses into parts and look at where those came from, how they developed, and what their attacks really mean.

Fandom said, “Dude, you are way over-thinking this. Those guys are dicks!” And…well…I think Fandom pretty much nailed it.

So, if it was a puppy, Fandom rejected it. They celebrated everyone who got on the ballot fairly (even those in categories where they ended up with zero competition) but didn’t get near any pup nominee. They threw the party-asshole out the door and went back to dancing. This works out better than my way of doing things. I might be more consistent, but there is nowhere to go with mine, and not much fun. Fandom booted the pups, put on blinders to ignore the wreckage, and had fun.

No doubt there were plenty who read all the nominations and considered all equally. I read them all, and without a shred of philosophy or politics, would have placed “No Award” in every place it was given based purely on the poor storytelling and minimal craftsmanship. No one can honestly claim those were award-worthy works. But looking over all the results (Orphan Black winning is telling), it’s clear the “Those guys are dicks!” vote ruled.

So what does the Hugo vote, with its rejection of the dicks…I mean pups, mean?

It means the party can go on. Fandom will consider the winners valid even when they had no competition (something that was hard for me to buy, but I bow to the greater wisdom of the Fandom party goers). The Hugos will continue to hold meaning—continue to be an honor. And everyone will laugh that in a year when the pups tried to eradicate East Asians from the ballot, two of the biggest awards went to Asians (one actually from Asia). We’ll celebrate that. Hell, we’ll celebrate everything cool, or kinda cool, or just OK, as long as it was done without being a dick.

Not that all is blue skies. The pups didn’t go away and aren’t going anywhere. They’re doubling down. They started even before the results were read. The live social media thread that accompanied the video stream was filled with insults, racist comments, sexist comments, and general bottom-feeder rhetoric.

Vox Day is calling for the complete destruction of the Hugos next year. Tom Kratman is yelping that anyone who doesn’t live in his warm damp space is an “idiot” and the Hugos will die. John C Wright has decided this is a good time to publically proclaim that a number of people who do not share his politics are “Christ haters.” If he is, as he claims, defending his wife from rudeness, I’ll give him some sway, but he seems far more interested in making grand and offensive religious statements than actually defending her. Sarah Hoyt is going on about conspiracies and still, somehow claiming that it is a small clique that is ruling all and opposing them—she failed to notice the small clique included just about everyone in Fandom but her little echo chamber mob. Brad Torgersen is whining that this proves his point that his type aren’t welcome in Fandom. He, of course, can’t see that what was not welcome was him being a dick.

Right wing websites with no connection to science fiction are getting involved. The Federalist says, “The utter destruction of the Hugo award is a warning not just to nerds but to Western civilization that social justice cannot be tolerated.” Which…wow. How many things can be wrong in a single sentence?

People will say racist things. People will say sexist things. People will call each other names and so many will claim they are the victims. But in the end, the “Don’t act like a Dick” rule is the one the won out and will win out. Culture will progress, and regress from time to time. But for Fandom, the awards as given, and not given, the other night were a very good sign.

Just, you know, don’t be a dick.

http://fosteronfilm.com/thoughts/the-hugo-results-dont-be-a-dick.htm

 

[More Fun To Compute]

At least we are getting closer to the message being openly that this is a hard right war against "weak nerds" for supporting women and atheism.

 

[FStop7]

Oh god its so good.

The animu makes it perfect.

 

[FStop7]

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/

I should mention that during the last few months of the Sad Puppies kerfluffle, I once upon a time accurately described him, Mr. Moshe Feder, and Mrs Irene Gallo of Tor Books as ‘Christ Haters.’ The support of abortion, sodomy, and euthanasia rather unambiguously put a soul into the position of open rebellion against Christian teachings.

I see.