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The Hugo Awards 2016 - Revisiting "Ethics in SF Awards"

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Not Deja Vu, unfortunately.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...hortlist-rightwing-campaign-sad-rabid-puppies

For the second year running, the biggest prize in science fiction and fantasy writing has been monopolised by nominations from Sad and Rabid Puppies groups, who campaign against works ‘overtly to the left’

Led by Beale – who writes under the name Vox Day and was once dubbed “the most despised man in science fiction” by the Wall Street Journal – the Rabid Puppies has been successful in getting its nominations on the shortlist again this year; out of 80 recommendations posted by Beale on his blog, 62 have received sufficient votes to make the ballot.

At MidAmeriCon II this year, it was announced that more than 4,000 nominating ballots were cast for the 2016 Hugo awards, almost double the previous record of 2,122 ballots. This news was initially greeted with cautious optimism, but the shortlist shows that the Puppies and their supporters have redoubled their efforts to “game” the awards.

Here's the full list of noms.
http://midamericon2.org/home/hugo-awards-and-wsfs/2016-hugo-finalists/

BEST NOVEL (3695 ballots)

Ancillary Mercy by Ann Leckie (Orbit)
The Cinder Spires: The Aeronaut’s Windlass by Jim Butcher (Roc)
The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin (Orbit)
Seveneves: A Novel by Neal Stephenson (William Morrow)
Uprooted by Naomi Novik (Del Rey)

BEST GRAPHIC STORY (1838 ballots)

The Divine written by Boaz Lavie, art by Asaf Hanuka and Tomer Hanuka (First Second)
Erin Dies Alone written by Grey Carter, art by Cory Rydell (dyingalone.net)
Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams (ffn.nodwick.com)
Invisible Republic Vol 1 written by Corinna Bechko and Gabriel Hardman, art by Gabriel Hardman (Image Comics)
The Sandman: Overture written by Neil Gaiman, art by J.H. Williams III (Vertigo)


Last year's thread for reference.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1026142
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The Hugo Awards really needs to get a handle on this bull shit but it seems these tool bags just have too much clout and too big a group of tools following their lead.
 
Here's my favorite example of the fuckery involved this year:
Best related work (2,080 ballots)
Between Light and Shadow: An Exploration of the Fiction of Gene Wolfe, 1951 to 1986 by Marc Aramini (Castalia House)
The First Draft of My Appendix N Book by Jeffro Johnson (jeffro.wordpress.com)
Safe Space as Rape Room by Daniel Eness (castaliahouse.com)
SJWs Always Lie: Taking Down the Thought Police by Vox Day (Castalia House)

The Story of Moira Greyland by Moira Greyland (askthebigot.com)

There's also the odd fact of Sad Puppies nominating a My Little Pony episode ("The Cutie Map") for Best Short Form Dramatic Presentation, which appears to be based on a willful misinterpretation of that episode's moral (that imposing conformity is bad, which they're applying to the "conformity" of accepting minorities) and them using MLP as a "black friend" to say that they don't hate women.

The voting system has changed to hopefully stop Sad Puppies, but it doesn't take effect until next year.
 
It's pretty pathetic when the person behind this (Larry Correia) had the following reasoning for pushing forward his own book for nominations and yet wasn't stopped immediately:

Eight Books You Need To Know About To Understand The Hugo Awards Snafu

What the Puppies have said: This is the book that launched the Sad Puppies campaign. In a January 2013 blog post called “How to get Correia nominated for a Hugo,” Correia wrote, “The fact that I write unabashed pulp action that isn’t heavy handed message fic annoys the literati to no end. When I got nominated for the Campbell [Award], the literati message-fic crowd had a conniption fit. ... Just imagine with me [the choice if this gets nominated]: Should I vote for the heavy handed message fic about the dangers of fracking and global warming and dying polar bears and robot rape as a bad feminist analogy with a villain who is a thinly veiled Dick Cheney? Or should I vote for the LAS VEGAS EXPLOSION SHOOTING EVERYTHING DRAGON HELICOPTER CHASE ORC SACRIFICING CHICKENS BOOK!?! ... And here’s the kicker, it doesn’t take very many votes for something to actually get nominated! I was shocked how few it was.”

Correia later wrote: “Do I think that novel of mine was one of the greatest works of 2012? Nope. But since [the Secret Masters of Fandom, a term for convention organizers] hates me, it would’ve been awesome to get it on there just to prove a point.”​

This is his book:
1320537604744398228.jpg
 
Having not read any of his works, why? I am curious.
Maybe because "he appears to have gone full SJW [Social Justice Warrior] with a Gamma [male] sauce. Female presidents, token ethnic melanges, you name it, he’s got it to such an extent that were it not for Stephenson’s past gamma [male] markers, I would almost suspect an epic, master-class trolling of the current genre.”

lol
 

Toxi

Banned
I had a chuckle imagining how these turds would react to Ursula K Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness winning "best novel" today.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I had a chuckle imagining how these turds would react to Ursula K Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness winning "best novel" today.

It would have probably not had a chance if these manchildren were in charge.
 

tomtom94

Member
I didn't realise - and I am saddened to have done so - that Cory and Grey of Critical Miss's nomination for Erin Dies Alone was engineered by one of the Puppies groups, so they don't even get to enjoy that.
 

studyguy

Member
Rabid puppies slate basally swept the vast majority of the nominations in like ten of the fifteen categories. It's gross.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I thought they were going to somehow overhaul the nomination process this year anyway? I presume limiting it to confirmed attendees only (ie, full memberships) would cut down on the bullshit.
 
I thought they were going to somehow overhaul the nomination process this year anyway? I presume limiting it to confirmed attendees only (ie, full memberships) would cut down on the bullshit.

Two pieces of nomination reform passed last year, but it's a two year process to get them into place. They'll need to be formally ratified this year, and would then go into place for next year.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Nothing says "ethics" like ballot stuffing after all.
To be fair, in a way it's always been a popularity contest. If you can convince enough people to buy memberships to nominate/vote for you, there's nothing to stop anyone from doing so.

That said, I wonder if there has ever been a case of someone just buying memberships in order to fraudulently get themselves nominated.
 

border

Member
Best short story (2,451 ballots)
Space Raptor Butt Invasion by Chuck Tingle

Well, if they're going to break the nominating process, at least they have a sense of humor about it.
 
Maybe because "he appears to have gone full SJW [Social Justice Warrior] with a Gamma [male] sauce. Female presidents, token ethnic melanges, you name it, he’s got it to such an extent that were it not for Stephenson’s past gamma [male] markers, I would almost suspect an epic, master-class trolling of the current genre.”

lol

Holy shit no.

I just think that he's a super influential and important author but he's not actually that great of a writer. His prose is tepid and boring and his characters are flat and uninteresting.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Holy shit no.

I just think that he's a super influential and important author but he's not actually that great of a writer. His prose is tepid and boring and his characters are flat and uninteresting.

You sure you aren't talking about Ready Player One? Seriously though, I've only read a couple of Neal's stories but I don't think his prose is bad by any means.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
GRRM's breakdown for those wanting to catch up

http://grrm.livejournal.com/483848.html

EDIT: GRRM's thoughts about withdrawing

One last point. The Rabids used a new tactic this year. They nominated legitimate, quality works in addition to the dross. Works by writers like Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Neal Stephenson, Alastair Reynolds (Reynolds went public well before the nominations asking NOT to be slated, but they slated him anyway), Andy Weir, and several others. Some of these writers are apolitical (like Weir), while others are known to oppose everything that VD stands for (Gaiman, Stephenson, King). One has to think they were deliberately targeted.

In some of the online comments I've seen, these writers are being called "shields." I've even read some people calling for them to withdraw, simply because they were on VD's list.

Withdrawing is the LAST thing they should do.

I urge them all to stand their ground. They wrote good books, stories, graphic novels, they did NOT take part in any slate. In some cases they were largely unaware of all this. In other cases they explicitly denounced the slates ahead of time (Reynolds, again). Punishing them... demanding they turn down this honor... simply because VD listed them is insane.

Marko Kloos and Annie Bellet did the right thing by withdrawing last year. Their was an ethical and courageous act; I applauded them then and I applaud them now. But this is a different year and a different situation. Given the well-known political views of some of these writers, it seems plain to me that VD and the Rabids picked them deliberately, in hopes they would withdraw, or would be voted under No Award. They would probably have put Scalzi (VD's best bro) on the ballot too, but he outsmarted them and withdrew before they could.

I am rather hoping that several of them win. Based on quality alone, some deserve to. Sure, VD will claim that as a victory, but as last year proves, he claims everything as a victory. We'll know the truth. The only real victory for him would be having any of these fine writers pull out. Let's not play his game.
 
I happen to really love Stephenson (Snow Crash is fucking great, Cryptonomicon is full of wonderful prose and characters, Anathem is actually better after several reads even if it is 1000 pages) but in all honesty Seveneves is a bit flat characterwise. Although the world building and detail work is some of the absolute best.
 

atr0cious

Member
Holy shit no.

I just think that he's a super influential and important author but he's not actually that great of a writer. His prose is tepid and boring and his characters are flat and uninteresting.
Of all sci fi writers, flat, uninteresting, tepid or boring have never once been words that intersect with Stephenson's work.
 
Holy crap, that Jim Butcher Cinder Spires book got nominated?

I love the Dresden files books, but it was awful. I felt ripped off and I checked it out from the library.
 
Holy crap, that Jim Butcher Cinder Spires book got nominated?

I love the Dresden files books, but it was awful. I felt ripped off and I checked it out from the library.

I am reading it right now. Seems rather paint-by-numbers at this point, but still fun enough. Hopefully the second half doesn't push it to awful status for me.

(I enjoyed his Codex Alera series too).
 
I remember reading they were upset that you couldn't tell a science-fiction story apart nowadays, that they longed for pulpy cover with 'babes' and spaceships and astronauts.

Basically, their whole argument boils down to the frustration of not being able to judge a book by its cover.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Yeah, but it got nominated as part of a puppy slate.

Even though it's great, the author needs to decline.

Nah; that's precisely what they are aiming for. If everyone who gets nominated via slate declines, then they're just going to nominate all the stuff they don't like on a slate and watch the authors decline.

IMO, Those on the slate need to just say "look, I know I was on a slate, most likely it was without my knowledge, vote for me if you think my entry is the best, and only for that reason". Scalzi was super smart and declined his books getting nominated before the whole thing started. Here are his thoughts on the matter

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/04/27/four-things-about-the-hugos-42716/

Second off, I see some people here and elsewhere swearing they’re going to put anything that was on the Sad/Rabid slates or recommendation lists below “No Award” this year. Bluntly, you’ll be foolish if you do this. As I noted in my LA Times piece yesterday, the Puppies this year slated things that were already popular outside their little circles, like, for example, The Sandman: Overture, by Neil Gaiman.

Brandon Sanderson gives some decent thoughts on that argument as well.
http://brandonsanderson.com/hugo-awards-2016/
 

besada

Banned
Yeah, but it got nominated as part of a puppy slate.

Even though it's great, the author needs to decline.

Part of the issue this year is that Sad Puppies went with a lot of choices that were going to be on the list anyway, which don't really fit their criteria, in the hopes of either getting them to decline or causing a "No Award" vote for people like Neil Gaiman (whom they nominated), Lois McMaster Bujold (whom they also nominated), and Neal Stephenson (ditto).

So they're still trying to game the ballots, but now -- since they picked a lot of obvious choices -- they can claim they're responsible for Gaiman, Stephenson, and Bujold being on the list, which makes it difficult for the authors.
 

ryseing

Member
Holy shit no.

I just think that he's a super influential and important author but he's not actually that great of a writer. His prose is tepid and boring and his characters are flat and uninteresting.

I thought Seveneves was the last of his works you could apply that argument to. I can see that for stuff like Anathem but Seveneves was surprisingly readable.
 
I'm aware it's not a popular opinion but I stand by it. Stephenson is an amazing idea and world builder and I adored his concepts and everything about the world in Snow Crash which kept me going through his technical manual explanations of shallow characters and absurdly lengthy pages of boring and dry prose.

I've tried 3 books and found them all fascinating and incredibly boring at the same time, sometimes as near as on the same page.

There's no doubt how incredibly influential and important he is to the genre though, which I appreciate fully
 
Part of the issue this year is that Sad Puppies went with a lot of choices that were going to be on the list anyway, which don't really fit their criteria, in the hopes of either getting them to decline or causing a "No Award" vote for people like Neil Gaiman (whom they nominated), Lois McMaster Bujold (whom they also nominated), and Neal Stephenson (ditto).

So they're still trying to game the ballots, but now -- since they picked a lot of obvious choices -- they can claim they're responsible for Gaiman, Stephenson, and Bujold being on the list, which makes it difficult for the authors.
Shit, that's ruthless.
 

Aikidoka

Member
Part of the issue this year is that Sad Puppies went with a lot of choices that were going to be on the list anyway, which don't really fit their criteria, in the hopes of either getting them to decline or causing a "No Award" vote for people like Neil Gaiman (whom they nominated), Lois McMaster Bujold (whom they also nominated), and Neal Stephenson (ditto).

So they're still trying to game the ballots, but now -- since they picked a lot of obvious choices -- they can claim they're responsible for Gaiman, Stephenson, and Bujold being on the list, which makes it difficult for the authors.

I don't think it should really make it difficult for the authors. No reasonable person is going to think that the Rabid Puppies introduced Gaiman's, Stephenson's, King's, etc... works to the world. Calling that a "win" will just be a circle-jerk among these dumbasses. They will certainly do that no matter what but I 'd say the removal of a legitimate nomination would give them a bit of a leg to stand on.

If they want to go the route of removing the worthy choices, then the Hugos should just be cancelled altogether, i think.
 

kswiston

Member
Of all sci fi writers, flat, uninteresting, tepid or boring have never once been words that intersect with Stephenson's work.

Those sorts of words are almost rendered meaningless by the way that they are used online to describe anything a person doesnt like for whatever reason.

Maybe criticize Stephenson for meandering, often unfocused writing if that isnt your thing. But his prose is witty and varied and his characters are often anything but flat or two dimensional. At least from what I have read (Baroque Cycle, Snow Crash, and the Diamond Age). Havent read Seveneves yet.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
From his link, a breakdown of which nominees were supported by Sad and Rabid Puppies. I was surprised to see that the Doctor Who nomination for "Heaven Sent" was actually from the Sad Puppies list.

Based on GRRM's post - it seems Sad Puppies may have made at least something of a good faith effort to try to nominate the things they like on a democratic basis - which is why I suspect they didn't get as many on the list as Rabid did. Scalzi has less sympathy, but I at least initially agree with GRRM.

As for the trying to get people to No Award / withdraw - they're counting on that just to inflict maximum embarrassment for a group of sci-fi fans No Awarding Gaiman or Stephenson. It basically gives them a huge weapon to claim that it's been purely politicized.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I read Seveneves. 2/3s of the book was pretty good in terms of the plot. The characters were largely terrible though. If it wins best book then it must have been a bad year or something funky is going on with the awards.

"The-Three Body Problem" (last year's winner) is so much better that it is like comparing Tolstoy to Vampire Fan-fic.

The best way to describe Seveneves is that Stephenson played about three thousand hours of Kerbel Space Program and then hurridly wrote the book in 3 days because he wanted to get back to kerbel.
 
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