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[robot]

I'm loving the game but god damn that netcode is all jerked. Sucks since the computer AI is really bad always doing random jumps and light punches from across the stage - it's really hard to get into Arcade mode because of it. Really hope they fix the netcode soon, I cant keep playing online at what feels like 4 fps.

 

[Aaron]

I'm loving the game but god damn that netcode is all jerked. Sucks since the computer AI is really bad always doing random jumps and light punches from across the stage - it's really hard to get into Arcade mode because of it. Really hope they fix the netcode soon, I cant keep playing online at what feels like 4 fps.

Yeah, wtf is with the AI? I don't remember any KOF game having it this bad. Raiden regularly wastes a throw super from across the screen, Terry seems to only use normal moves, Athena constantly spamming reflector, etc... it's embarrassingly awful.

 

[Ken Masters]

Yeah, wtf is with the AI? I don't remember any KOF game having it this bad. Raiden regularly wastes a throw super from across the screen, Terry seems to only use normal moves, Athena constantly spamming reflector, etc... it's embarrassingly awful.

you would expect the AI to at least be solid in fighter, I really think this game needed another 6 months of dev

 

[Kobe]

I think the AI is the last thing to be treated properly in a fighting Vs game.

 

[Lyte Edge]

If you want to get your ass kicked HARD, seek out PBlaze30 on PSN. His Kyo, Kim, and Elizabeth are SICK SICK SICK SICK! Even with lag, he was busting out some amazing, amazing combos. I was like :O the whole time! :lol I finally managed to start beating some of his characters only towards the end, but was never able to win a match. The guy was just insanely good.

 

[Arde5643]

I think the AI is the last thing to be treated properly in a fighting Vs game.

The only fighting game with actual good AI that teaches you about the game is the VF series.

VF's AI was definitely an exception to the norm.

 

[Aaron]

I think the AI is the last thing to be treated properly in a fighting Vs game.

My point is the AI has been much better in the KOFs of the past, just like nearly every other aspect of the game aside from the sprites and the core system. I guess they couldn't just port over the AI, is it really so hard to make sure a fighter doesn't use a throw based super when there's no one remotely near him? Or block low for a sweep? Because the AI used to be able to do these things.

 

[arstal]

My point is the AI has been much better in the KOFs of the past, just like nearly every other aspect of the game aside from the sprites and the core system. I guess they couldn't just port over the AI, is it really so hard to make sure a fighter doesn't use a throw based super when there's no one remotely near him? Or block low for a sweep? Because the AI used to be able to do these things.

The AI for KOF- was good- in 1995. It's sucked ever since.

This is about as bad as 2k3.

I think the AI does best on easy for some reason.

Yeah, I need some people to kick my ass- I'm going on 10-20 game win streaks daily right now, and you can tell from the GAF SF4 tourney that my skills aren't high end.

BTW don't lose hope for some improvements, and 360's online can be playable. I really think SNK is going to do some improvements if they're planning to DLC the game down.

 

[Aaron]

The AI for KOF- was good- in 1995. It's sucked ever since.

This is about as bad as 2k3.

No way. The AI in this game fights the air more than anything else. Never seen it this bad in any other SNK game past their early stuff. They clearly didn't bother putting much effort into it, like nearly every other aspect of this game.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Rumours about SNK wanting to nick and dime the game with DLC aaaaall the way to XIII.

True? Who knows.

Anyway, "some" guys are talking high and mighty that the whole thing (about making the 2D sprites being hard, and the lack of pixel artists and animators) is all "spin", fanwank or lies... well, Vanillaware weights in (they even mention KOF XII):

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4097/king_of_2d_vanillawares_george_.php

nice interview, except for that part where the interviewer starts pestering kamitani about PSN/XBLA.

they never learn.

 

[Fersis]

I got the game!!!! YAY!

Only played for a 1 hour or so.
The battle flow is 100% different from older KOF's, its a huge change.
The core gameplay mechanics are top notch,its a great fundation for the next game....

Im kind of amazed at how they messed up the practice menu though, in fact this is a pet peeve of mine... HUD and menues, are awful all around. Next time they should take a little more time on the general feel of the interface.
Its like if they suddenly forgot everything they learned on previous console KOFs.

But gameplay wise is great. (I dont like how barebones some characters are... but hey its a rebirth)

EDIT: The AI is pretty bad. (At least on the default difficulty)

 

[robot]

The only fighting game with actual good AI that teaches you about the game is the VF series.

VF's AI was definitely an exception to the norm.

The AI in VF5 was incredible. Might be the only time playing through single player where I felt like I was fighting real opponents (the arcade tour mode).

 

[panda21]

what is wrong with the practice menu? seems ok to me (since i learned to press R1 :lol)

i noticed that the loading between rounds is actually pretty quick, not noticeably longer than other games. you only notice it because the loading screen comes up. they should of just got rid of the loading screen, then no one would complain about loading between rounds.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I got the game!!!! YAY!

Only played for a 1 hour or so.
The battle flow is 100% different from older KOF's, its a huge change.
The core gameplay mechanics are top notch,its a great fundation for the next game....

Im kind of amazed at how they messed up the practice menu though, in fact this is a pet peeve of mine... HUD and menues, are awful all around. Next time they should take a little more time on the general feel of the interface.
Its like if they suddenly forgot everything they learned on previous console KOFs.

But gameplay wise is great. (I dont like how barebones some characters are... but hey its a rebirth)

EDIT: The AI is pretty bad. (At least on the default difficulty)

Cool man.

Triangle on my pad craps out. Now I have all wierds button configs. Damn, it's hard to play.

 

[arstal]

The AI in VF5 was incredible. Might be the only time playing through single player where I felt like I was fighting real opponents (the arcade tour mode).

No it wasn't. I could spam the AI by using Jeff's 9K+G over and over. At high levels, any full-circular move often worked as well.

The VF4 AI was tons better.

Best fighting game AI may be Samsho 2.

 

[Fersis]

what is wrong with the practice menu? seems ok to me (since i learned to press R1 :lol)

i noticed that the loading between rounds is actually pretty quick, not noticeably longer than other games. you only notice it because the loading screen comes up. they should of just got rid of the loading screen, then no one would complain about loading between rounds.

Again this is a pet peeve, but having to press R1 to go to a secondary menu page to change your character or check the command list is bothersome.
Specially when all the previous KOFs had just one menu page.

I also dont like this about the practice menu:
Scroll to Attack with Up and Down
Press X
Scroll the selected attack with right and left
Press X to accept

when it could be :
Scroll to Attack with Up and Down
Scroll the selected attack with right and left

Anyway ,its not a big deal. (I can guess why there are 2 practice menu pages though)

 

[panda21]

No it wasn't. I could spam the AI by using Jeff's 9K+G over and over. At high levels, any full-circular move often worked as well.

The VF4 AI was tons better.

Best fighting game AI may be Samsho 2.

well i dont agree with that.

all round, vf4 was much less challenging, i beat it first time i ever played vf. 5 on the other hand was much difficult and made me actually learn the game rather than spamming and mashing like a lunatic as you can in every other 3d fighter.

 

[WickedLaharl]

any official word yet from snk on what they're gonna due about this clusterfuck of a game?

 

[DR2K]

any official word yet from snk on what they're gonna due about this clusterfuck of a game?

They said they were going to do... er announce something about the netcode.

As far as content goes, there's an entire section devoted on the main screen to market place content. I think we all know where this is going.

 

[Dali]

Rumours about SNK wanting to nick and dime the game with DLC aaaaall the way to XIII.

True? Who knows.

Anyway, "some" guys are talking high and mighty that the whole thing (about making the 2D sprites being hard, and the lack of pixel artists and animators) is all "spin", fanwank or lies... well, Vanillaware weights in (they even mention KOF XII):

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4097/king_of_2d_vanillawares_george_.php

Awesome interview. I've been looking for something like this from Vanillaware for a long time. I wish he'd have gone into more detail about their work -flow and method of animation though. The whole 'Flash' thing didn't come as a surprise though.

 

[ShinobiFist]

No it wasn't. I could spam the AI by using Jeff's 9K+G over and over. At high levels, any full-circular move often worked as well.

The VF4 AI was tons better.

The A.I. in the 360 version was amazing. You probably had the game set to normal(basically EASY) instead of Hard or Very Hard. You see the A.I. do fuzzy guard after certain attacks. You see high level Wolf A.I.'s crouch into Fuzzy after a 4K. Good thing to do because 4K leaves Wolf at -6. I learned a few setup's from Sarah's A.I. while playing in Hard. Like P+G into OM P back stagger. Basically, if you think your opponent is going to tech Up or Down, you OM in that direction with a P into a guarantee back stagger.

Their was heavy discussion about VF5 Quest mode when it was release for the PS3 on VFDC. The A.I. was very weak in that version. You see the A.I. just stand there at times. The discussion was brought up again when the 360 version was release. We discuss how much of a improvement the A.I. was in this version.

 

[Fortinbras]

The AI in VF5 was incredible. Might be the only time playing through single player where I felt like I was fighting real opponents (the arcade tour mode).

+1

The AI of KOF12 however is a fucking joke.

 

[arstal]

The A.I. in the 360 version was amazing. You probably had the game set to normal(basically EASY) instead of Hard or Very Hard. You see the A.I. do fuzzy guard after certain attacks. You see high level Wolf A.I.'s crouch into Fuzzy after a 4K. Good thing to do because 4K leaves Wolf at -6. I learned a few setup's from Sarah's A.I. while playing in Hard. Like P+G into OM P back stagger. Basically, if you think your opponent is going to tech Up or Down, you OM in that direction with a P into a guarantee back stagger.

Their was heavy discussion about VF5 Quest mode when it was release for the PS3 on VFDC. The A.I. was very weak in that version. You see the A.I. just stand there at times. The discussion was brought up again when the 360 version was release. We discuss how much of a improvement the A.I. was in this version.

Yeah, the AI does fuzzy guard, but doesn't know how to deal with someone who knows how to beat it. It also fuzzy guards ALL the time. Just low throw that stuff down.

Predictable AI is bad, no matter how technically proficient it is.

 

[Augemitbutter]

yea, the AI in KoF XII is the worst i've ever seen in a fighting game.

it doesn't matter in the long run, but they could've shown at least some effort. as for me, i don't care much about it.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Yeah, the AI does fuzzy guard, but doesn't know how to deal with someone who knows how to beat it. It also fuzzy guards ALL the time. Just low throw that stuff down.

Predictable AI is bad, no matter how technically proficient it is.

I never encounter the A.I. in VF5 being predictable or fuzzying every time in Quest mode set to Hard or Very Hard in my experience with the game. At one point, I tought the A.I. was reading my inputs like MK2. Not arguing with your above statement at all, people always find ways on how to deal with difficult A.I.'s in games in general. I'm going to try your tatic in Quest Mode with Jeff(9K+G) with the A.I. set to Hard and Very Hard to see my success rate. Just out of curiosity. Because if it works, that means I could of gotten those 1000 achievement points easier, lol.

Anyway, back to the KOFXII talk, no need to derail thread about VF5, because talking about it hurts(No VF5R)Do you guys think the patch to KOFXII is GGPO? Is that even possible?

 

[BattleMonkey]

yea, the AI in KoF XII is the worst i've ever seen in a fighting game.

I wouldn't go that far, but for recent games yes it is pretty damn bad.

 

[Fersis]

I never encounter the A.I. in VF5 being predictable or fuzzying every time in Quest mode set to Hard or Very Hard in my experience with the game. At one point, I tought the A.I. was reading my inputs like MK2. Not arguing with your above statement at all, people always find ways on how to deal with difficult A.I.'s in games in general. I'm going to try your tatic in Quest Mode with Jeff(9K+G) with the A.I. set to Hard and Very Hard to see my success rate. Just out of curiosity. Because if it works, that means I could of gotten those 1000 achievement points easier, lol.

Anyway, back to the KOFXII talk, no need to derail thread about VF5, because talking about it hurts(No VF5R)Do you guys think the patch to KOFXII is GGPO? Is that even possible?

Possible ? All is possible, the question is : Its worth it? A GGPO patch would need extra money that wasnt on the development budget. Its all about risks and benefits.

 

[panda21]

after reading that interview with Shane i'm quite interested to see whether this will work better in europe, where people are a bit closer together.

also although i'm happy to pay a ridiculous amount for DLC to support it, i hope they make a complete edition with all of it in later.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Haven't played this in like 5 days ...still waiting for the patch that makes it playable online for me =(

 

[arstal]

Possible ? All is possible, the question is : Its worth it? A GGPO patch would need extra money that wasnt on the development budget. Its all about risks and benefits.

Quite honestly, I doubt it is. But for future KOF's it would be.
I think some of the reason I'm not hating on this so much, was that my expectations for the netcode were low to begin with. Admittedly I expected a bit better, but not as much as you guys thought.


BTW on the Jeff 9K+G, you won't win quickly. You also gotta do it at right range, but in real play, that move is a free stomp/oki opportunity for your opponent, it should never be used much.

the VF5 AI does also read inputs.

 

[Fersis]

Quite honestly, I doubt it is. But for future KOF's it would be.

Patching GGPO on KOFXII is probably something SNKP dont want to do.
Maybe for KOFXIII or GAROU 2....

 

[Augemitbutter]

I wouldn't go that far, but for recent games yes it is pretty damn bad.

allright, then let me say i don't remember anything worse. i've playing so many different fighting games over the time.....

 

[GuardianE]

Two things.

One:

We all agree that KOF XII is pretty barebones.

But, what if this game were called something else, like "SNK Rebirth" or even "Garou 2"... and it had 12 characters (10 + 2 playable bosses). Plus endings, a story mode and an extra DVD or CD or whatever (some extra gimmick).

Same gameplay. The 12 characters are your 12 favorite characters from the roster.

Would you like the game better?

Would it be worth your 60 bucks?

Two:

The Ignition mod spills the beans:



Shit, meet fan.

Suddenly those wacky rumors sound possible.

One: Yes. That's everything that everyone is complaining about.

Two: That's shady as fuck.

I don't mind the nickel and diming DLC, as long as the netcode gets buffed and there are improvements done. I don't mind legitimate post-release DLC. Stuff like chars and stages is legitimate.

While I agree to an extent, where do you draw the line? One interpretation of the quote is, SNK deliberately withheld making improvements to the game in order to nickel and dime. I think that there's where the real problem lies. Developers get a lot of flak for "unlock codes" in otherwise complete games, but when a game is shipped halfassed on purpose to take advantage of the marketplace... that's on another level entirely.

Course, that's entirely speculation because of the ambiguity of the statement.

 

[Fersis]

Shen Woo follow ups are pretty strict isnt ?

 

[Shadow780]

Shen Woo follow ups are pretty strict isnt ?

Yes it is, ridiculously strict.

 

[Hunahan]

Two things.

One:

We all agree that KOF XII is pretty barebones.

But, what if this game were called something else, like "SNK Rebirth" or even "Garou 2"... and it had 12 characters (10 + 2 playable bosses). Plus endings, a story mode and an extra DVD or CD or whatever (some extra gimmick).

Same gameplay. The 12 characters are your 12 favorite characters from the roster.

Would you like the game better?

imo, no.

First, if they just took 12 KOF characters and called it Garou 2, I'd be disappointed in two ways instead of one.

Second, I'm highly insensitive to the way a game is packaged or named. An extra DVD or an abandonment of roman numerals wouldn't really change the way I thought about the game, personally.

Third, while a bit more single player content would be nice, I most definitely would not be willing to trade 10-12 playable characters just for a few cutscenes and a boss character. Maybe that's just me.

Two:

The Ignition mod spills the beans:



Shit, meet fan.

Suddenly those wacky rumors sound possible.

It's so weird that Ignition is willing to publicly admonish SNK like this.

At first they were just sounding like they wanted to pass the buck, but this here is a straight-up knock on SNKP's credibility, and almost comes across as an attempt to turn the fanbase.

I really just don't see what benefit they gain from this move, unless they are ending their partnership with SNKP.

I know that Ignition has been making a lot of noise recently that they want to turn their company image around and have fans respond better to them, but doing so at the expense of your company partnerships seems incredibly short-sided.

The only relationship I have with Ignition is as a publisher of SNKP games. This definitely comes across to me as biting the hand that feeds you....

 

[Fersis]

Probably Ignition want to take part of the next SNKP fighting game development...

 

[riskVSreward]

well i dont agree with that.

all round, vf4 was much less challenging, i beat it first time i ever played vf. 5 on the other hand was much difficult and made me actually learn the game rather than spamming and mashing like a lunatic as you can in every other 3d fighter.

WTF? VF4:Evo Quest mode on Hard was fuuuuuuuuuu haaaaarrrrdddd... Now that I think of it I don't have vanilla VF4 so if that is what you meant, ignore this.

 

[Kintaro]

Perhaps cutting ties with SNKP wouldn't be such a bad move. It's SNK. If they aren't going to put forth the effort to matter and take advice, than why put forth the effort to publish them?

At this point, I doubt anyone would care much outside of the extreme niche of fans they have. It's not going to get any better after the SamSho game comes out and receives a DRUBBING in the press and by fans. Cut and run.

 

[panda21]

It's so weird that Ignition is willing to publicly admonish SNK like this.

At first they were just sounding like they wanted to pass the buck, but this here is a straight-up knock on SNKP's credibility, and almost comes across as an attempt to turn the fanbase.

I really just don't see what benefit they gain from this move, unless they are ending their partnership with SNKP.

I know that Ignition has been making a lot of noise recently that they want to turn their company image around and have fans respond better to them, but doing so at the expense of your company partnerships seems incredibly short-sided.

The only relationship I have with Ignition is as a publisher of SNKP games. This definitely comes across to me as biting the hand that feeds you....

well its not exactly an official statement they made, its just a comment from one person on their forums who may or may not be an employee. i doubt it was a company wide decision they made to badmouth snk.

 

[Megadragon15]

Maybe Ignition wants to pressure SNKP to put out a quality finished product that would be beneficial to both companies reputation.

 

[Kintaro]

Maybe Ignition wants to pressure SNKP to put out a quality finished product that would be beneficial to both companies reputation.

If so, they wouldn't publish SamSho Sen. *barfs*

 

[LiK]

from Shane's tweet

Some very encouraging test sessions with an upcoming KOF XII software update last night...

 

[Fersis]

If so, they wouldn't publish SamSho Sen. *barfs*

Yeah, why SNKP spend resources on SamSho Sen instead of KOFXII is beyond my imagination...

 

[arstal]

Yeah, why SNKP spend resources on SamSho Sen instead of KOFXII is beyond my imagination...

Sen should be trashed. I really think if SNK was smart, and they aren't, they'd make Samsho into an RPG again. It's done as a fighting game series.

As for the boss char: why not just make Geese the boss, with a cheap AI, but playable?

All you need for Geese is Reppukens, Shippuken, Counter, and Raging storm. Jaiken if you have time. He's easy to do.

As for the public going after SNK, maybe they know they have SNK by the balls, and see it is a risk worth taking?

 

[Kintaro]

Sen should be trashed. I really think if SNK was smart, and they aren't, they'd make Samsho into an RPG again. It's done as a fighting game series.

Burn in HELL.

Reboot the series in 2D after they get KOF under control. There's still room and great love for a proper SamSho 2D fighter.

 

[arstal]

I love Samsho, but I can't see how they can improve on Special. Seriously.

Tenka was a massive step down.

A brand new Samsho- how would you do that without retreading?

With SF4- there was still ground to cover, with Samsho not so much.

The SC idea wasn't bad- but they had to keep the specials, which they didn't.

 

[tzare]

Yeah, why SNKP spend resources on SamSho Sen instead of KOFXII is beyond my imagination...

they should re-birth samhso in all 2d glory, like KOF

I still have hope for more RealBout though

 

[Kintaro]

A brand new Samsho- how would you do that without retreading?

With SF4- there was still ground to cover, with Samsho not so much.

The SC idea wasn't bad- but they had to keep the specials, which they didn't.

How do you do any fighter without retreading? SF4 is a retread, BB is a retread, KOF is a retread, etc. All of them take ideas here and there and mess around with them. Can do the same for SamSho.

Special was hot like fire though. How about just a HD 2D remake (keep the sprites at proper resolution please) of that?

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I wish I ran SNKP. SamSho would be getting a RPG, action/platformer and a new fighting game. Bam!