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The Last of Us Part II - Review Thread - *NO. SPOILERS. PERIOD.*

What will TLOU 2 average score be?


  • Total voters
    341
  • Poll closed .

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
And yet you don't apply that to my opinion.

My issue is with all the perfect scores, if the game really was that perfect there would have been more groundswell way, way before the embargo was up.

Because you have no proof they gave it a perfect score because they're shilling for Naughty Dog.

Days Gone is one of my favorite games of this generation. I don't complain about the negative reviews because that's how they feel about the game. When you go out of your way to prove that they're shilling is just ridiculous.
 
Universal acclaim.

tenor.gif
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
My issue is with all the perfect scores, if the game really was that perfect there would have been more groundswell way, way before the embargo was up.
I said this many times, when a game gets 10/10 it doesn't mean its "perfect" it just means the reviewer enjoyed the game that much to give that score. Also what does it matter what score the reviewer gives? Read/watch actual review and see gameplay footage or play it and judge the game yourself.

Witcher 3 got bunch 10/10 scores but it doesn't change about how feel about the game because I know my own taste. A game gets 10/10 doesn't guarantee you will be enjoying the game, heck you may end up loving game that got 6/10 more than a game that got 10/10.
 

THEAP99

Banned
Question about Metacritic, how exactly are unscored reviews weighted or counted?

I notice that some reviews just end up always being "in progress"
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I don't know the point of even including these reviewers on the website if they don't contribute to the overall score.

Is it the same for open-critic?

Do we think TLOU2 will stay at a 96? There's still at least 30 more reviews that ought to come in.. based on death stranding being reviewed by a total of 111 people
 

Woggleman

Member
To be fair Skill Up did a fair and rational review that I will most likely disagree with but at least he respectfully stated his opinion. There was no complaining about forced woke agenda or any of that and he seemd like he was respectful towards those who would think differently than him. That being said it is funny how many people who most likely never heard of him last week are now huge fans.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
He also said that they almost got rid of the puzzles and ladder pushing which to me is a good thing. The fact that most of the gameplay is combat is a plus in my book.
Good, I barely call those "puzzles", I really like the original game's combat system but those so called "puzzles" sections weren't all that interesting.
 

Woggleman

Member
Good, I barely call those "puzzles", I really like the original game's combat system but those so called "puzzles" sections weren't all that interesting.
Skill Up talks about this like it is a negative but to me it is a good thing. I didn't hate them but they didn't really add anything.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Skill Up talks about this like it is a negative but to me it is a good thing. I didn't hate them but they didn't really add anything.
This is why people need to actually read the review instead just looking at scores, someone's negative points maybe positive point for you.
 

Woggleman

Member
He even said on his twitter that if you loved the first game you will most likely love this one so it sounds up my alley. It sounds like they cut out the weakest part of the first game.
 

ZehDon

Member
Skill Up talks about this like it is a negative but to me it is a good thing. I didn't hate them but they didn't really add anything.
Kinda-sorta-but-not-really. I believe he lamented that Naughty Dog didn't bother to attempt to improve on them, or offer up meaningful alternative traversal or environmental puzzles - something to add challenge or discovery into traversing the world. From his perspective, Naughty Dog simply just removed all traversal or environmental puzzles all together. This, apparently, left a hole, with "walk blindly to destination" on one side, and "kill everything at said destination" on the other, with nothing to bridge the gulf, ala Uncharted traversal and exploration. Take from that what you will.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Kinda-sorta-but-not-really. I believe he lamented that Naughty Dog didn't bother to attempt to improve on them, or offer up meaningful alternative traversal or environmental puzzles - something to add challenge or discovery into traversing the world. From his perspective, Naughty Dog simply just removed all traversal or environmental puzzles all together. This, apparently, left a hole, with "walk blindly to destination" on one side, and "kill everything at said destination" on the other, with nothing to bridge the gulf, ala Uncharted traversal and exploration. Take from that what you will.
He had no problem with that type of thing in Doom..
 

Bryank75

Banned
I mean, DOOM isn't TLOU2, so... cool?
I guess what I would like to say is... Uncharted is a different game too and I feel that whimsical puzzles don't really fit the gritty tone of TLOU and distract from the rage that would drive someone to revenge because people that are driven by that are very singular in their thought / purpose.
 
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ZehDon

Member
I guess what I would like to say is... Uncharted is a different game too and I feel that whimsical puzzles don't really fit the gritty tone of TLOU and distract from the rage that would drive someone to revenge because people that are driven by that are very singular in their thought / purpose.
I haven't met anyone who's ever been driven to murder literally hundreds of people like Ellie here, so I won't comment on what feels applicable. But, I wouldn't call the TLOU1's puzzles "whimsical", so there's clearly room for traversal puzzles that don't veer into "whimsical". The reviewer actually lamented that they were removed entirely, rather than improved, so clearly they agree with that too. As for "distract from the rage", we actually call it "pacing", and it's important for ensuring elements have the necessary context to land properly. Your mileage may vary, of course.
 

Bryank75

Banned
I haven't met anyone who's ever been driven to murder literally hundreds of people like Ellie here, so I won't comment on what feels applicable. But, I wouldn't call the TLOU1's puzzles "whimsical", so there's clearly room for traversal puzzles that don't veer into "whimsical". The reviewer actually lamented that they were removed entirely, rather than improved, so clearly they agree with that too. As for "distract from the rage", we actually call it "pacing", and it's important for ensuring elements have the necessary context to land properly. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I disagree... but anyway, you're entitled to your view.
 

PanzerAzel

Member
...
Kinda-sorta-but-not-really. I believe he lamented that Naughty Dog didn't bother to attempt to improve on them, or offer up meaningful alternative traversal or environmental puzzles - something to add challenge or discovery into traversing the world. From his perspective, Naughty Dog simply just removed all traversal or environmental puzzles all together. This, apparently, left a hole, with "walk blindly to destination" on one side, and "kill everything at said destination" on the other, with nothing to bridge the gulf, ala Uncharted traversal and exploration. Take from that what you will.
TLoU has always been very grounded in this respect. The ladders and planks always stuck out to me as a sore thumb in the first, an overall very gamey element in an otherwise extremely plausible universe that the experience would’ve lost nothing by their exclusion. Every time I replay the original I’m left wondering what was the reason for their inclusion at all. They added absolutely nothing except needless busywork. I can somewhat understand the plank as it was relevant to Ellie’s character development, but I think ND has made the right choice in trimming off the needless fat here.

The pleasure for me in traversing TLoU’s world has always been in taking my time to witness its condition and to appreciate ND’s phenomenal eye for detail, presentation and world building. Simply walking around in the world is interesting, and it’s to its credit it doesn’t need to focus on traversal mechanics to make it so.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
One last question on preloads: Will I have to make sure I'm online for it to launch or will it be available as soon as the counter hits 0?
 

MagnesG

Banned
Skill Up:
"In my very personal view - very personal, very subjective view, the problem with TLOU2, is that there is no commitment whatsoever to the story and and characters that so many people fell in love with (TLOU?).
This a petty revenge plot, full of shitty unlikable people, and where most of the main characters could be swapped out for any other and it wouldn't make a difference.
Ellie's story in the first game was so unique, only she could have had that journey. Here, this story is just one of what is probably thousands of revenge stories unfolding in this broken world, it feels dime a dozen and utterly inconsequential."


Some things to add: The gameplay is serviceable based on him, but going through these clunky stupid, slow, zip-line AI shooting fest for about 20-30h story motion is not great.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Skill Up:
"In my very personal view - very personal, very subjective view, the problem with TLOU2, is that there is no commitment whatsoever to the story and and characters that so many people fell in love with (TLOU?).
This a petty revenge plot, full of shitty unlikable people, and where most of the main characters could be swapped out for any other and it wouldn't make a difference.
Ellie's story in the first game was so unique, only she could have had that journey. Here, this story is just one of what is probably thousands of revenge stories unfolding in this broken world, it feels dime a dozen and utterly inconsequential."


Some things to add: The gameplay is serviceable based on him, but going through these clunky stupid, slow, zip-line AI shooting fest for about 20-30h story motion is not great.
He didn't like the first one either... his voice is an outlier and people who enjoyed the first one will enjoy the sequel. His points are really poor for the most part... any number of stories could substitute their characters, so what?
Factions, the multiplayer in TLOU was incredibly popular based on its gameplay, so it's just not to his taste.
There are a lot of reasons bringing people to hate on this game... politics, console fanboyism and following trends just to fit in.... yet despite all of it the game stands above all the crap and shit slinging as a masterpiece.
 

Woggleman

Member
At the end of the day somebody who didn't like the first one would not be a good judge of the second one. It would be like me reviewing Death Stranding 2. If they ever do make a sequel to that game I hope they cater to the people who loved it even though I wasn't big on it.
 

Geki-D

Banned

Yeah, it's becoming really obvious that everyone with a bone to pick with the game is hiding behind this review. It's a shame for Skillup, because I'm sure he was just giving his opinion. Unfortunately he's become a pawn in the anti SJW's "culture war" against Druckmann.

At this point though, anyone just pointing out his review and ignoring the rest is clearly just only interested in satisfying their confirmation bias and hates this game no matter what.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Personally I find it very unfair that the reviewers can't talk about large parts of the game and can't show them in video reviews. It's definitely not the same as not being allowed to reveal key plot twists or character deaths (which would be completely understandable).
 
Skill Up:
"In my very personal view - very personal, very subjective view, the problem with TLOU2, is that there is no commitment whatsoever to the story and and characters that so many people fell in love with (TLOU?).
This a petty revenge plot, full of shitty unlikable people, and where most of the main characters could be swapped out for any other and it wouldn't make a difference.
Ellie's story in the first game was so unique, only she could have had that journey. Here, this story is just one of what is probably thousands of revenge stories unfolding in this broken world, it feels dime a dozen and utterly inconsequential."


Some things to add: The gameplay is serviceable based on him, but going through these clunky stupid, slow, zip-line AI shooting fest for about 20-30h story motion is not great.

😆😆😆

Give it up, this is too sad.

Hype levels to play this Game of the generation contender are through the roof, bring on the 19th !
 

Bryank75

Banned
This is not true of course, he liked the first game, just didn't like its gameplay much, but loved the story and therefore the game on the whole as well.

Funnily enough his two brothers like TLOU2 lot more than him, but also aren't completely blown away.
Yeah, that's great... it has absolutely no bearing on my enjoyment. I'll decide myself and I don't really get this push to highlight the one negative review in the world.
He got his views and attention though.... hope it's worth it for him.
 
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Personally I find it very unfair that the reviewers can't talk about large parts of the game and can't show them in video reviews. It's definitely not the same as not being allowed to reveal key plot twists or character deaths (which would be completely understandable).
Still they can review it based on their experience. They just aren't allowed to spoil it. But that doesnt change their take on the game and their review score.
 
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MagnesG

Banned
He didn't like the first one either... his voice is an outlier and people who enjoyed the first one will enjoy the sequel. His points are really poor for the most part... any number of stories could substitute their characters, so what?
Factions, the multiplayer in TLOU was incredibly popular based on its gameplay, so it's just not to his taste.

There are a lot of reasons bringing people to hate on this game... politics, console fanboyism and following trends just to fit in.... yet despite all of it the game stands above all the crap and shit slinging as a masterpiece.
He explained a whole lot more than that and I think excerpting the whole part of the no spoiler story review is a bit overkill. I don't know, wouldn't work either if I just paste off a single line of words.
What he mentions is all about the single player gameplay, not about factions, not multiplayer etc. Maybe if the AI works, or at least functioning like people then maybe he'll like it? Maybe it's just his taste....

“Clunky, stupid, slow, zip-line AI shooting fest”? What is this even supposed to mean?
The AIs follows a linear zipline waiting to be killed in queue, in one of the examples in his video. It's what I experienced in the first game too.
I'd like to add that this is my words not him.

😆😆😆

Give it up, this is too sad.

Hype levels to play this Game of the generation contender are through the roof, bring on the 19th !
Give it up as in not playing it? This is a review thread, all positives and negatives in one place, even hype thread can't always be sunshine either.
Relax. I'm still not sure I can finish off this game if the gameplay is the same - which he conform, I mean without going through YT. And I'm definitely not alone in this.
 
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rofif

Banned
Skill Up:
"In my very personal view - very personal, very subjective view, the problem with TLOU2, is that there is no commitment whatsoever to the story and and characters that so many people fell in love with (TLOU?).
This a petty revenge plot, full of shitty unlikable people, and where most of the main characters could be swapped out for any other and it wouldn't make a difference.
Ellie's story in the first game was so unique, only she could have had that journey. Here, this story is just one of what is probably thousands of revenge stories unfolding in this broken world, it feels dime a dozen and utterly inconsequential."


Some things to add: The gameplay is serviceable based on him, but going through these clunky stupid, slow, zip-line AI shooting fest for about 20-30h story motion is not great.
I could sorta understand that. If everyone is not likeable then we have no one to root for and attach to.
And if they removed puzzles and extended the game to 25 hours... Then it sounds like 25 hours of just sneaking game? And sneaking works for me only as additional mechanic and not main gameplay bit. There must be something else otherwise everyone would get bored out of their minds. I thought 1 was perfect length for a sneaking game but it worked because of story, characters, set pieces and graphics (at the time). It's hard for a non rpg game to reach 10-12 hours without getting some fluff, let alone 25h.
 
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Playing through the first one again - how long is it total? Also I have a feeling - even though I’m hyped - that this game will be receiving a major backlash
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Still they can review it based on their experience. They just aren't allowed to spoil it. But that doesnt change their take on the game and their review score.
But that's just the problem, you end up having to believe the reviewer without getting enough proof that they were justified to give it a 9-10/10 score (or any other score for that matter). The reviews shouldn't spoil the key moments in the game, but it's just not right when they have to ignore talking about roughly half of the game.
 
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rofif

Banned
But that's just the problem, you end up having to believe the reviewer without getting enough proof that they were justified to give it a 9-10/10 score (or any other score for that matter). The reviews shouldn't spoil the key moments in the game, but it's just not right when they have to ignore talking about roughly half of the game.
Exactly. Imagine if reviewers were not allowed to show more than first level of the game. You would not know there is much more variety in later levels. Or imagine if they were not allowed to show platforming or talk about it. They would say "there is one new mechanic in doom eternal which is controversial but I liked it 10/10".
Again - the only thing I worry about with tlou2 is lack of likeable protagonist and 25hours of just sneaking... It might be boring by the sound of just it but no review was allowed to show anything else than sneaking in a snowy forest or just forest.
I think everyone wanted to just play as old Joel :(
 
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bender

What time is it?
Listening to the skill-up review now and it's interesting as I'm comparing it to my mental notes of the TLOU Grounded play through I just wrapped up. I haven't touched the game since the remaster launched on PS4 so I'm going in somewhat fresh and as someone who has fond memories of playing it on both PS3/PS4.
-I agree with him that the original feels dated mechanically. Its' environmental puzzles always felt antiquated but so does the stealth, combat puzzles and enemy AI. I do still really like how visceral your arsenal feels.
-He mentions playing on normal and I'm not one to harp about difficulty, but I really don't think that's the way the game should be played. Grounded can be overly frustrating (having a lot to do with prolonged stealth take down animations), but getting rid of Batman detective vision and making crafting resources and ammunition incredibly limited ratchets up the tension of combat encounters. Besides the final combat rooms in the hospital, I don't think I ever had more than 10 rounds of ammunition at my disposal. That makes you use everything available to you to clear out areas.
-He mentions how well paced the story in the original is and I disagree. The overall theme is great as are a lot of the characters and performances, but it does feel like the opening chapters drag on and even then, the relationship of Tess and Joel isn't fully realized and the impact of her death suffers because of it. I also think Joel's arc and affection for Ellie feel under baked and undeserved.

What does that have to do with the sequel? I'm worried about the story, especially if it isn't propped up again by a great cast of main players. I'm also kind of dreading the game play if it hasn't evolved to more modern standards of stealth.

edit: Also, 25 hours seems crazy long.

edit 2: One complaint from the skill-up review mentions that the sequel feels more grounded than original with less Uncharted DNA related to bombastic set pieces. That's actually something I appreciated about the original when compared to Uncharted. Uncharted was a little dull. Uncharted 2 felt like the sweet spot for pulp fiction adventure theatrics. Uncharted 3 felt exhausting and like it was always trying to one-up Uncharted 2. It's actually comforting to hear that TLOU2 isn't following that trend, especially considering the world it's trying to build.
 
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Reminds me of:


have you played the game?...


I heard several reviews from youtubers. They all seemed pretty honest, even when not singing praises to the game. You should say: I'll stick with this dude because it conforms to what I think it is. And that's ok, but don't sell it as being the most honest, because it's not.
I've agreed with a majority of his reviews and they seem to reflect my feelings on those games so.. that's the point of trusted reviewers.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Exactly. Imagine if reviewers were not allowed to show more than first level of the game. You would not know there is much more variety in later levels. Or imagine if they were not allowed to show platforming or talk about it. They would say "there is one new mechanic in doom eternal which is controversial but I liked it 10/10".

The reviewer could still describe what they did not like and why. We have seen less than glowing reviews, it is possible and you do not get blocked if you do not give the game a 10/10.

This is generally a quite conspiratorial thinking often meant to justify why we should not trust the reviews of Sony games, Sony games always get a pass, Sony reviews are all paid for, Sony exclusives are overrated, etc...
 

rofif

Banned
The reviewer could still describe what they did not like and why. We have seen less than glowing reviews, it is possible and you do not get blocked if you do not give the game a 10/10.

This is generally a quite conspiratorial thinking often meant to justify why we should not trust the reviews of Sony games, Sony games always get a pass, Sony reviews are all paid for, Sony exclusives are overrated, etc...
It's not about Sony games. These are some of my fav games(god of war, uc4, last guardian, DS, bloodborne etc). I have just not heard a single review depicting properly why they gave it a 10 our of 10. 25 hours of sneaking and not likeable characters does not sound good and the supporting gameplay footage did not showed anything new. Everyone just says it's bleak and violent and that's ok but how is that a 10? Explain to me dear reviewer. Maybe I've watched bad reviews
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
It's not about Sony games. These are some of my fav games(god of war, uc4, last guardian, DS, bloodborne etc). I have just not heard a single review depicting properly why they gave it a 10 our of 10. 25 hours of sneaking and not likeable characters does not sound good and the supporting gameplay footage did not showed anything new. Everyone just says it's bleak and violent and that's ok but how is that a 10? Explain to me dear reviewer. Maybe I've watched bad reviews

The non likeable characters but is extremely subjective though. There is no way they could convince you one way or the other unless they did a long play.
At most they could comment a bit on the plot and the character evolution, but not sure how they could deliver that without spoiling the game away.
 
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