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The Swindle |OT| Spelunky meets cyber-steampunk Thief
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
1. Are you on PS4? PS4 apparently has input issues making the controls imprecise. On the whole my PS4 experience has been good, but I had two moments where the jump button didn't respond and I ran straight into some spikes and died. I've adjusted my skills now, though, and I account for the potential imprecision (which they'll hopefully fix).
2. Your complaints sound very overblown and whiny. I had a few issues, but my skills and strategies - just like in Spelunky/Mark of the Ninja/other modern 2D skill-based games - have increased and far overcome any minor control niggles I had.
3. It's obviously a totally different kind of game (a stealth game rather than straight action platformer), but I think the Spelunky comparisons are valid to some extent. Swindle is a slower game, which is the main difference. You need to sneak rather than just get past everything quickly and safely. But there are other parallels with Spelunky, which come from the procedural generation, punishing death design, long-form strategies and brilliant risk/reward balancing. There are other parallels, too, which in some way are better balanced than Spelunky – for example in Spelunky the ghost comes, sometimes infuriatingly/unfairly, after a couple of minutes. In Swindle, this timer only starts when you raise an alarm - then 30-60 seconds later the police will come, and they function the same way as the ghost or the shopkeepers. You can evade them, but only after a lot of experience. This feels really well balanced in Swindle. When the alarm is raised you can throw caution to the wind and belt through the levels, either to escape or hack a couple of machines before you do. The feeling of completing a whole level without being seen and without triggering the cops is amazing. So satisfying.
Long term strategies play a far larger role in Swindle. In Spelunky you have no option but to improvise your way through levels, with your skill level buffering you, and hoping for the best. You learn grass-roots strategies to help survive and occasional life-saver long-term strategies. But if you die, it's all thrown out the window. Which is great, in Spelunky. But in Swindle you get 100 tries to up your game, get better permanent gear and improve your strategies, to ultimately complete the toughest level in the game. Essentially Spelunky's risk/reward of 'what do I buy?' or 'do I risk jumping into this room?' is stretched out over a long, five-hour period of time rather than two minute rooms. You get more of a safety net – but still not a failproof one. I guess it's like if Spelunky was restructured so that it was set in the Black Market, and you could unlock and travel to any of the five worlds once you buy them. This obviously doesn't make sense at all in Spelunky's context (ie mechanics, style or world design), but it's roughly how the game's could be parallel.
Comparing the mechanical precision of the two games, though, isn't fair. Spelunky is a through-and-through platformer, Swindle isn't.
It's more fair to compare Swindle to Mark of the Ninja. Swindle actually doesn't come out great in that comparison either, in terms of control precision. I think the Swindle devs decided to forgo precision/clear-cut mechanic and level design in order to make more compelling, interesting environments and challenges. Like windows. Windows are an absolute pain in the arse (until you get the upgrade to make them climbable). You'd never get something like this in Spelunky or MotN. But they're realistic and once you figure out how to handle/surpass them, they become an engaging piece of level design. Sometimes the procedurally generated buildings look like real places too, and it can be really immersive.
I'm not sure, but I know you don 't need to get all of the cash, maybe 90%+ or something?
Once you get bugs, just getting to a computer and planting one on it counts as a successful heist to me, if not the game!
This sums up my first six hours of The Swindle too. Once you understand that you aren't quite as responsive as characters in pure platformers, you can plan for it and rely more on patience and your tools instead. That doesn't make my issues with the controls on the edges of spike pits irrelevant, but it does mean they aren't a problem for me any more. The Swindle always offers you at least two ways in, and once you have bombs and can hack doors as well as break windows, you'll find it much easier to turn back from a difficult section with a computer behind it and come in from the other side or the roof instead.
Where it feels the most like Spelunky to me is in learning the tools and enemies and tricks- you are building up your own skills. Once I started being much more aggressive with bombs, using them to take out spikes and mines in annoying places and to make safe indents in shafts for me to wait in if there is a huge pile of trouble at the bottom of it as well as to blow through walls, I started to make much more progress.
This morning I learned:
Failing to hack (entering the wrong command) on a security station automatically calls the police
Bombs can blow up computers (duh!)
If you start setting a bomb on a wall, you'll stay in place until you've finished setting it
When a robot starts hacking your account, his aerial on the roof has a line pointing right to him- you need to take him out and only then can you kill the aerial.
Bugs are way, way too good in comparison to any other upgrade, and give you too much money for zero risk once you've placed it. The fact that the money takes a long time to accumulate means nothing when it's a long game and it carries on past death. I think they should only continue to work while the thief that placed it is alive.
Once you reach the mansions, look for spikes on the ceiling near the doors and windows- they mark security barriers that will come down if the alarm is triggered. I had a great run this morning where I just squeezed out under one as it came down!
I think the most important one is don't let the ticking of the clock in the soundtrack make you hurry. Take it easy and case the joint first, especially after a frustrating death and loss of a haul where you end up just charging in with a new operative and dying over and over again.
At this point, I only have 25 days to go and am just entering the casinos. I don't think I'll pull off the swindle on this run, but everything I learn will make my next run so much better.
I noticed it a little when falling at the start, but otherwise not at all now I'm used to it. I'm about 6 hours in on a Vita.
The issue of jumping occasionally having a problem around spikes is by far the most annoying thing I've found so far (to the point where I use bombs on spikes as a matter of course now that I have loads of them), and that's in all versions.
Re 'Heist Complete', I'm pretty sure it's if you get a substantial amount of money out of it. Probably over 50%, which will be over a grand at least.
Exactly! Of course the control mechanics and interaction mechanics are almost 100% different to Spelunky, but it has a similar ethos in terms of learning enemy behaviours, world behaviours, your move/tool set, and the emergent interactions between all three.
Again, exactly! And also, all your tips above are hugely useful to me. This is seriously like Spelunky or Souls in that knowledge is the ultimate power. Like Minecraft, Souls, Spelunky, etc, it's the sort of game that would actually be just as fun with a Wiki open in parallel to check stuff.
Re the Mansions – watch out for the long caterpillar enemies, too. I found out what they do the hard way. They're easy to kill and as far as I can tell can't harm you directly – but when they're dead, they lie belly-up, and become a spike trap. So make sure you kill them in a position you can walk past their spikes. I killed one in a tight drop before a dead end, so I couldn't escape without falling on its spikes and ruining the heist
Also, I don't have the Bug upgrade. I have bombs - which are total lifesavers - and the Steam Hide/Invisibility, which I always forget about, but I haven't tried Bugs. Do they take long to set up? And do security cameras reveal/cancel them? I hate how every computer at this point has a security camera above it...
Do we know if the Strong Arm upgrade, that lets you do more damage, can break Security Cameras? At this point the only thing I've found that can kill cameras is a bomb from above, destroying their ceiling, but that is not a tenable option in most cases.
Exactly! Of course the control mechanics and interaction mechanics are almost 100% different to Spelunky, but it has a similar ethos in terms of learning enemy behaviours, world behaviours, your move/tool set, and the emergent interactions between all three.
Again, exactly! And also, all your tips above are hugely useful to me. This is seriously like Spelunky or Souls in that knowledge is the ultimate power. Like Minecraft, Souls, Spelunky, etc, it's the sort of game that would actually be just as fun with a Wiki open in parallel to check stuff.
Re the Mansions – watch out for the long caterpillar enemies, too. I found out what they do the hard way. They're easy to kill and as far as I can tell can't harm you directly – but when they're dead, they lie belly-up, and become a spike trap. So make sure you kill them in a position you can walk past their spikes. I killed one in a tight drop before a dead end, so I couldn't escape without falling on its spikes and ruining the heist
Also, I don't have the Bug upgrade. I have bombs - which are total lifesavers - and the Steam Hide/Invisibility, which I always forget about, but I haven't tried Bugs. Do they take long to set up? And do security cameras reveal/cancel them? I hate how every computer at this point has a security camera above it...
Do we know if the Strong Arm upgrade, that lets you do more damage, can break Security Cameras? At this point the only thing I've found that can kill cameras is a bomb from above, destroying their ceiling, but that is not a tenable option in most cases.
They take as long to set up as a bomb, you use them just like setting a bomb near a computer- use the R button to select bugs, then the tool button to set them rather than the hack button which will do a normal hack on the computer instead. Don't do what I did and get bombs and bugs mixed up under pressure
I don't think cameras cancel them, you should have just enough time to get in once a camera sweeps past and set a bug/hack. You can get an upgrade to increase your speed to set bombs, I'm not sure if that increases the bug setup speed too but it's the same animation. Increased movement speed will help too, as will using your steam backpack to make you invisable as it sweeps past, allowing you to then be immediately in place to setup the bug. Also the bug doesn't need to be right on top of the computer- a square away seems to work just fine too.
If you're worried about timing and are a real pro, use a bomb to make an indent in the floor (you need to get used to the bomb radius to make sure you don't blow up the computer), check how the camera passes over it, then hang on the side of the crater and attach the bug there while out of sight
I can't recommend using bombs to change the landscape if a room looks like trouble enough, you'll usually kill a couple of enemies, make fresh hiding places as well as set off mines etc, I've used three in a row to just brute-force my way through a 'nope' room before.
I don't know, haven't got it so can't try it. Hacking a security centre (if there is one, they are the sideways-facing red computers with an eye icon above them, and if you have the skill) will also turn off the cameras though.
The RPS review is very unfair in my opinion. The guy wanted Spelunky, it sounds like.
Reviews are so flawed, man. Forcing someone to experience and write about something in depth is a recipe for the person to not enjoy that thing. I've experienced it first hand and sometimes it's so obvious the reviewer is experiencing this when you read reviews like that.
Thanks for all the tips! Not sure whether to get the Bugs. Do you get more money with them than just from hacking normally?
Yes I've noticed the security centres before I need that hack upgrade!!! Cameras are the bane of my life. Everything else is manageable.
Reviews are so flawed, man. Forcing someone to experience and write about something in depth is a recipe for the person to not enjoy that thing. I've experienced it first hand and sometimes it's so obvious the reviewer is experiencing this when you read reviews like that.
Thanks for all the tips! Not sure whether to get the Bugs. Do you get more money with them than just from hacking normally?
Yes I've noticed the security centres before I need that hack upgrade!!! Cameras are the bane of my life. Everything else is manageable.
You get so much more money from bugs it's ridiculous. If, say, you get a one-time payout of £3,000 from a hack, you might get £150 a second for a bug. They last for an indeterminite amount of time (about 5-10 minutes or so), but it often works out as around ten times what you would have got for a simple hack, and sometimes even more. I've set a bug then put the Vita in my bag to change trains, and it's carried on collecting around £20,000 in a short space of time. If you always bug the first computer you find, you can have several in operation at once, and they keep collecting even if you die. Sometimes they need to wait for a computer to refill with money, but they are totally overpowered compared to hacking.
Wow. Fo sho doing that tonight. Shouldn't have bought the 'more money from hacking' upgrade, should have just bought the Bug upgrade D=
What a game though, I'm so glad to be learning all this and I can't wait to deploy the newly learned techniques!
Yeah, I've bought some upgrades that I don't really use too. Once you have two extra jumps, the third feels like it's needed so rarely in comparison to it's cost. Also I bought the console to buy extra days, it costs a huge amount plus £500 for two extra days, then £750 for the next two extra days etc etc. You really don't need to buy it unless you are on day 95+ with a real chance of both finishing the game and running out of time. Also delaying the police response- it's so rare that it's the police that kill me, usually it's the heightened awareness of the robots when the alarm goes off.
Thing is, I now have a real idea of exactly which upgrades to go for, and how to use them, that I can't wait to try my next run- making mistakes is good if you learn from it and the game is enough fun that you want to replay it.
The cheaper upgrades (hacking, hack doors, double jump) are useful all the time so worth having, as are bombs and bugs, but an awful lot of the upgrades are only useful in specific situations that might not even be in the level. Next time I'm going to focus on getting bugs early and using the cash for unlocking the higher security levels as soon as possible. Their high difficulty is slightly mitigated if your only goal is to reach one computer and bug it, rather than the risk of clearing out the whole level.
Icyflamez96
Member
Alright I'll try this out myself.
10 days left and I've only just made enough money to unlock The Swindle! Looks like I'm only going to get one attempt at it as there's no way I can steal £400,000 again. One go, with my one hit point, with failure meaning the failure of my entire campaign. No pressure
Looks like my next few heists are going to be all about securing me as many upgrades as possible, am quite excited about my final run.
I guarantee I'll die in the first few seconds...
Looks like my next few heists are going to be all about securing me as many upgrades as possible, am quite excited about my final run.
I guarantee I'll die in the first few seconds...
Seems like it's definitely not everyone's bag, so as you go in, bear this in mind:
- the game gives you almost no direction. check the pause menu for controls. test all your movements and be careful
- movement isn't super precise, but this gets better as you unlock abilities in the airship. as always, be slow and careful and test moves before you do them
- you can easily lose 40 of your 100 tries just learning the basics, so try to keep yourself alive and make the most out of every level
- buy the computer hacking upgrade as soon as possible. if you don't, the most you can get from early levels is about £100. If you do, you'll be getting £1,000+ most times
- double jump and wall-stick are hugely important
- bugs and bombs are hugely important
- unlocking the next security sector is hugely important. sometimes it's worth doing this rather than buying gadgets/abilities, because it means in one good run you'll make £20,000 instead of £7,000
10 days left and I've only just made enough money to unlock The Swindle! Looks like I'm only going to get one attempt at it as there's no way I can steal £400,000 again. One go, with my one hit point, with failure meaning the failure of my entire campaign. No pressure
Looks like my next few heists are going to be all about securing me as many upgrades as possible, am quite excited about my final run.
I guarantee I'll die in the first few seconds...
Spoiler free impressions when you do so, bub. I'd like to get the vibe of the Swindle, but not details of everything in the level
Best of luck
Toodle pip
Willdo pal, I suspect all you'll hear from me is variations on 'ouch!'Seems like it's definitely not everyone's bag, so as you go in, bear this in mind:
- the game gives you almost no direction. check the pause menu for controls. test all your movements ant be careful
- movement isn't super precise, but this gets better as you unlock abilities in the airship. as always, be slow and careful and test moves before you do them
- you can easily lose 40 of your 100 tries just learning the basics, so try to keep yourself alive and make the most out of every level
- buy the computer hacking upgrade as soon as possible. if you don't, the most you can get from early levels is about £100. If you do, you'll be getting £1,000+ most times
- double jump and wall-stick are hugely important
- bugs and bombs are hugely important
- unlocking the next security sector is hugely important. sometimes it's worth doing this rather than buying gadgets/abilities, because it means in one good run you'll make £20,000 instead of £7,000
Spoiler free impressions when you do so, bub. I'd like to get the vibe of the Swindle, but not details of everything in the level
Best of luck
Toodle pip
Baron_Calamity
Member
Just got this on Steam. Really liking it so far. Reminds me a lot of the old game Impossible Mission. I doubt my first run will be successful. I'm almost down to 40 days and I'm not out of the second area yet.
Don't worry too much- the amount of cash you get increases dramatically, I only spent about five heists in the Casinos before jumping up to bank jobs!
I think it's a game that really rewards you spending time sounding out what all the enemies do. I keep encountering new ones, and there are some you can really exploit- later on there's an explosive homing drone that only reacts to sound, you can sneak around then suddenly make a noise to get it to dive in and attack walls/enemies/spikes etc. The first one killed me, but now I view them as useful tools.
Just wanted to touch on this so folks know. I had the same issues with controls on PC/STEAM version. It's not really that the controls are imprecise or do not register. It's that as you approach the edges of something (pit or otherwise) you start to slip down. It "pulls" you into the pit or down the 'stair' thus negating your chance to jump. This happens way too early in my opinion.
You can see evidence of this also occur when on a ledge and something explodes and the screen tilts and then you slide off and fall.
Hopefully it can be fixed. It's just about my ONLY real complaint with the game.
If it's something minor like that, then I'm certainly buying it. Thanks!
coredecepts
Member
I played for a few hours on Vita. I didn't notice any performance issues, though the load times were slightly inflated compared to PS4. And I was only in the first two areas. Later areas might have more going on that could impact perf.
Load times on the vita are fairly long (especially in comparison with the PS4) but the game itself is a good fit for the system.
I've only got 10 days left and am just getting to the Casino so I don't think I'll be getting the Swindle..... BUT I did learn a lot on this first play through.
I fully intend to unlock Bugs much earlier my next play through!
I've only got 10 days left and am just getting to the Casino so I don't think I'll be getting the Swindle..... BUT I did learn a lot on this first play through.
I fully intend to unlock Bugs much earlier my next play through!
I ended up having enough for three cracks at the final mission, which was worth doing as I know what I'll need next time!
A couple of hints and my most useful upgrades for the final mission (bearing in mind that ultimately I failed gloriously and am now starting again!).
A couple of hints and my most useful upgrades for the final mission (bearing in mind that ultimately I failed gloriously and am now starting again!).
Contrary to what I thought it is randomised, but the premise stays the same- there are a lot of police bots!
The most useful upgrades I found for it where bot.confuse (lots of them have guns, so satisfying!) and having 10 bombs with the blast upgrade as you might need to dig quite a bit.
The most useful upgrades I found for it where bot.confuse (lots of them have guns, so satisfying!) and having 10 bombs with the blast upgrade as you might need to dig quite a bit.
GroundCombo
Member
I also made it to the final mission and failed spectacularly (well, I have enough cash for one more attempt but I'm not expecting much). In general, I have huge problems with the later zones because all the buildings seem to be jam-packed with bots, drones, cameras and everything the game can throw at you. I don't really know how to approach those rooms. EMP and steam purge are occasionally useful and big bombs are practically a necessity; now that I think of it, bot confuse does sound like a good idea. I'll have to give that a shot.
Question:
Answer:
For the record, I also use fully-upgraded steam-invisibility to just run past all the bots in a room (but watch out for mines). This is especially true of rooms that have a security HQ computer at the end.
Also, fully upgraded Remote Detonation is a lifesaver. Use RD on mines or electric traps, and use EMP on the horrible blue block-moving guys from the later levels.
Plus, bombing down to a room from above is the only way to destroy a security camera. Sometimes just doing this will free the room up enough to let you clear it without gadgets.
This is good to know. I'm the same – it's definitely my only main complaint, too.
I noticed the 'pull' towards edges a couple of times recently. On partially crumbled blocks (ones just beyond your bomb explosions) it's really visibly obvious, for some reason. Your character model gets dragged properly down into the pit your explosion made.
Answer:
For the record, I also use fully-upgraded steam-invisibility to just run past all the bots in a room (but watch out for mines). This is especially true of rooms that have a security HQ computer at the end.
Also, fully upgraded Remote Detonation is a lifesaver. Use RD on mines or electric traps, and use EMP on the horrible blue block-moving guys from the later levels.
Plus, bombing down to a room from above is the only way to destroy a security camera. Sometimes just doing this will free the room up enough to let you clear it without gadgets.
This is good to know. I'm the same – it's definitely my only main complaint, too.
I noticed the 'pull' towards edges a couple of times recently. On partially crumbled blocks (ones just beyond your bomb explosions) it's really visibly obvious, for some reason. Your character model gets dragged properly down into the pit your explosion made.
Baron_Calamity
Member
My first 10 days meet with failure last night. I didn't even get out of the second area. I'm going to take a break and come back to this game later.
My second run has me about to try the final mission with 35 days left on the clock!
My last attempt at it failed because I think you need to
What I learned:
My last attempt at it failed because I think you need to
either hack or destroy all security stations before hacking the Devil's Basilisk- I wasn't able to grab it as it set off the alarm, but I did make it back to the pod.
A) the app that locates all security stations might make the final run much easier
B) once you find the Devils Basilisk, go back and neaten up your escape route- unlock all doors, break windows, use a spare bomb on spikes etc. you could be leaving in a hurry!
B) once you find the Devils Basilisk, go back and neaten up your escape route- unlock all doors, break windows, use a spare bomb on spikes etc. you could be leaving in a hurry!
Don't worry about it- spending the first 30+ days there is fine as you won't make serious money until you unlock bugs anyway. You'll spend far more days in the early areas than the later ones, as you'll probably die more too due to little mistakes dealing with mines etc. later on you have the tools to steal a lot of money and get out more easily.
apieceofstrange
Member
I do like the concept of this game, but I feel like it would be much more appealing to me if there was a re-balanced mode with fewer days (maybe something like 30-50). In Spelunky, the moment to moment gameplay was always exhilarating because you lived or died by your every movement/action. Your entire game was on the line 100% of the time. In this game, a single failed day seems negligible when you essentially have 100 lives to work with. I just don't get the same sense of risk/reward. Doesn't really help that this game seems to have a lot of cheap deaths due to the sluggish controls.
The beauty of Spelunky was that it only took 20-30 minutes to complete the game from start to finish with a satisfying score. Sure, you could spend additional time on ghosting, but that was completely optional. This game forces you to grind, and having to play the same levels over and over for money gets tedious. I can't see myself sitting down and playing 100 levels of this in 1 sitting, and having to break it up across multiple sessions kind of ruins what momentum the game has going. I always feel inclined to just start fresh each time since none of my runs have been particularly memorable.
The beauty of Spelunky was that it only took 20-30 minutes to complete the game from start to finish with a satisfying score. Sure, you could spend additional time on ghosting, but that was completely optional. This game forces you to grind, and having to play the same levels over and over for money gets tedious. I can't see myself sitting down and playing 100 levels of this in 1 sitting, and having to break it up across multiple sessions kind of ruins what momentum the game has going. I always feel inclined to just start fresh each time since none of my runs have been particularly memorable.
To be fair, I'm at the end of my second run with ten days remaining, and every day is precious. I've had four goes at The Swindle and failed each time, so each heist is now me desperately trying to get as much cash as possible for another attempt at the final mission. A couple of failed days could end my entire campaign without another chance at The Swindle at this point.
I'm not really sure how they are 'the same levels over and over' when it's procedurally generated from a tile set just like Spelunky. Do you mean like the same challenges within each area?
Have you bought the upgrades to movement speed and jumping? I don't find the controls sluggish at all, just a bit ropey around spikes, and now that I have the tools to deal with them (I tend to bomb them on principle) I really don't seem to get deaths that aren't entirely my fault at all.
Spelunky's a different game in that you have all the tools at the start, it's beauty in simplicity. The Swindle has you looking at a room full of enemies, with a pile of upgrades and gadgets that you've chosen, and environmental hazards that you can manipulate, and improvising around it, with an eye on a short-term cash needs and a long-term deadline. I love them both.
What I learned in my latest set of attempts on the final run
I need the upgrade to make noise-sensitive bots notice me less- those swarms of explosive bots are deadly
apieceofstrange
Member
The difference is this game gates off levels behind money and equipment/ability unlocks (which in turn also cost money). It forces you to grind until you have enough money to not only unlock the next level, but also deal with its threats adequately. In Spelunky, you could beat the game with just the clothes on your back, if you are skilled enough. I just feel like the game could benefit from being slightly less grindy.
Fair enough, opinions and all that
One man's grind is another's meat of the game, I suppose. I find that with rpgs, where one player views sidequests as padding the game out and another sees them all as essential 'content'. Same with shooters, I view every wave of enemy reinforcements as padding out the runtime in Uncharted, but the gunplay is the meat of it for others. If you view getting in and out of The Swindle's randomly generated houses to get as much cash as possible to advance and upgrade as grinding, then the game is going to feel like a repetitive slog as that's pretty much the entire game.
I do like games that value skill over grinding though, it's what I've always loved about Monster Hunter, that once you've learned how to fight something you can go out and do it in your pants if you so desire!
Nose Master
Member
Turning a bit on this, but it's still got major flaws. Gating the ability to functionally play the game really holds it back. You literally move at half speed until you buy the normal mobility. That's shit.
The controls are also really bad. It's a ps4 thing I'm told, but fuck. I'm getting used to pressing the jump button extremely early to compensate for the awkward input lag.
I still don't know what designates grabbing onto a ledge for a wall cling that's one square above you. Direction you're holding on the analog, distance from the wall itself, etc; none of that seems to make any difference.
Spelunky this is not, but it's okay once you hit tier 3.
The controls are also really bad. It's a ps4 thing I'm told, but fuck. I'm getting used to pressing the jump button extremely early to compensate for the awkward input lag.
I still don't know what designates grabbing onto a ledge for a wall cling that's one square above you. Direction you're holding on the analog, distance from the wall itself, etc; none of that seems to make any difference.
Spelunky this is not, but it's okay once you hit tier 3.
GroundCombo
Member
Made it with a final rank of C, after about a dozen failed attempts. There's an astronomical number of ways you can die in this game, and some of them are sadly due to bugs or sloppy controls; I still can't be sure what is going to happen and which wall I'm going to grab, or not grab at all, when jumping in tight spaces.
The early game can be downright unfair if you have bad luck, and the progression skyrockets in a slightly weird way after getting the bugs (the good kind of bugs). I didn't really mind that though, because the cash flow and the resulting powertrip is pretty satisfying. Despite all the problems, the game is fun and quite addictive when you start to learn how to use the tools and thin the bot herd before jumping in. It's a few steps short of awesome.
The early game can be downright unfair if you have bad luck, and the progression skyrockets in a slightly weird way after getting the bugs (the good kind of bugs). I didn't really mind that though, because the cash flow and the resulting powertrip is pretty satisfying. Despite all the problems, the game is fun and quite addictive when you start to learn how to use the tools and thin the bot herd before jumping in. It's a few steps short of awesome.
I really like the concept of the game but there are many elements that don't work. The controls are incredibly rough, when your character can die in one hit, it's not acceptable for the controls to be so clumsy. Climbing walls just above your jump height is incredibly inconsistent, unless you're totally clear of a wall you don't really know how the game will react when you jump and even something as simple as slowly walking off a ledge to grab on to the wall below is difficult prior to getting double jumps and even then it can still be a mixed bag when windowsills are involved.
The level generation is unsatisfying. Early on, you'll regularly run into levels where you can do little more than pick up a few stray dollars so early days feel wasted. The best randomly generated games still feel well constructed but with each area you'll probably run into the 5 or so room types on your first heist.
The game doesn't actually do anything interesting with the limited time mechanic. It has more akin to the structure of old life-based games than modern rogue-likes. There's no randomness in the structure or approach to the campaign when you attempt it for your second or third time.
You get the hack ability, you get the double jump, you get some of the other cheaper upgrades, you move on to the next level. Buy more upgrades until you win or lose and repeat.
Where's the uniqueness? Where's the incentive to run through it multiple times? It's a structured platformer without the designed levels. The design decisions just don't mix. It's a shame to because there are elements of the game I do enjoy. It feels great when the controls behave and you can get away with the loot successfully, the style is fantastic and discovering what new enemies do when you reach a new tier is exciting.
The level generation is unsatisfying. Early on, you'll regularly run into levels where you can do little more than pick up a few stray dollars so early days feel wasted. The best randomly generated games still feel well constructed but with each area you'll probably run into the 5 or so room types on your first heist.
The game doesn't actually do anything interesting with the limited time mechanic. It has more akin to the structure of old life-based games than modern rogue-likes. There's no randomness in the structure or approach to the campaign when you attempt it for your second or third time.
You get the hack ability, you get the double jump, you get some of the other cheaper upgrades, you move on to the next level. Buy more upgrades until you win or lose and repeat.
Where's the uniqueness? Where's the incentive to run through it multiple times? It's a structured platformer without the designed levels. The design decisions just don't mix. It's a shame to because there are elements of the game I do enjoy. It feels great when the controls behave and you can get away with the loot successfully, the style is fantastic and discovering what new enemies do when you reach a new tier is exciting.
Just completed it with a C-rank and six days left on the clock.
I can recommend, before you pick up the Devil's Basilisk,
. I wouldn't have got out alive if I hadn't!
I can recommend, before you pick up the Devil's Basilisk,
go back and do a dry run of your escape route. Work out the quickest route to the exit and get rid of any enemies/obstacles in the way
Nose Master
Member
Started playing this on Vita at work, the lack of input lag makes it a completely different experience. The loading times are kind of rough, though. 20 seconds to load a new day
EDIT: All right, that was only the initial heist. It's down to 5-10 for doing another day.
EDIT2: Ugh. On Vita, the guards "reset" when they're off screen about half of the time. That wall jump dance you do waiting for someone under you to pass? Most of the time they'll just keep resetting to exactly where they were when you last saw them.
EDITAGAIN: Welp. Occasionally when you press Triangle on the Vita version, you just randomly teleport to a another area of the level. I don't have the teleporter, this is real early game still. By occasionally, I mean 75% of the time there isn't an actual triangle prompt above your head. It'll warp you into walls, into mines, wherever.
EDIT: All right, that was only the initial heist. It's down to 5-10 for doing another day.
EDIT2: Ugh. On Vita, the guards "reset" when they're off screen about half of the time. That wall jump dance you do waiting for someone under you to pass? Most of the time they'll just keep resetting to exactly where they were when you last saw them.
EDITAGAIN: Welp. Occasionally when you press Triangle on the Vita version, you just randomly teleport to a another area of the level. I don't have the teleporter, this is real early game still. By occasionally, I mean 75% of the time there isn't an actual triangle prompt above your head. It'll warp you into walls, into mines, wherever.
The guards resetting is definitely annoying.Started playing this on Vita at work, the lack of input lag makes it a completely different experience. The loading times are kind of rough, though. 20 seconds to load a new day
EDIT: All right, that was only the initial heist. It's down to 5-10 for doing another day.
EDIT2: Ugh. On Vita, the guards "reset" when they're off screen about half of the time. That wall jump dance you do waiting for someone under you to pass? Most of the time they'll just keep resetting to exactly where they were when you last saw them.
EDITAGAIN: Welp. Occasionally when you press Triangle on the Vita version, you just randomly teleport to a another area of the level. I don't have the teleporter, this is real early game still. By occasionally, I mean 75% of the time there isn't an actual triangle prompt above your head. It'll warp you into walls, into mines, wherever.
I haven't encountered your random teleporting in 8 hours on the Vita though, that sounds strange!
I did have an odd bug where I got stuck on a wall halfway through the final mission, but managed to get out of it by placing an actual bug, the animation pushed me free of whatever I was stuck on.
Finally stole the Basilisk. The bugs really do destroy the concept of money in this game. I was coming away with 100k every mission once I reached the third area. It definitely makes the game more enjoyable though, the gadgets are a lot of fun to play with.
My main problem now is that there is zero incentive for me to play the game again. It's not random enough for me to get much out of another playthrough and I will also have to grind out the early equipment again. A playthrough also isn't short enough to be one of those single session run games like Binding of Isaac or FTL.
There is something like that with the PS4 version as well. When you open a door or hack a computer, you will be occasionally be teleported to a door on the other side of the map (usually the first door). I'm guessing it's trying to correct for collision? It's bizarre.
The bugs are way too good- once you unlock them there is no reason to hack a computer rather than bug it (as long as you have bugs remaining). It's also possible to place bugs from further away (including in the room above), and bugging a locked (red) computer without dealing with it's security centre first doesn't set off the alarm in the way that hacking it does either. Maybe they could have balanced it by making bugs riskier somehow, or visable to robots, or overusing them means that the robots hack your account more often too.
Bugs gave me the money to essentially buy everything I wanted long before the end mission, and on my second run I finished with nearly £3m. I might try replaying it without them, and see if that makes for more interesting choices, but ultimately I know which upgrades are useful for the endgame now, so I think I'd still just prioritise them.
Bugs gave me the money to essentially buy everything I wanted long before the end mission, and on my second run I finished with nearly £3m. I might try replaying it without them, and see if that makes for more interesting choices, but ultimately I know which upgrades are useful for the endgame now, so I think I'd still just prioritise them.
coredecepts
Member
Oh hey looks like you can hack computers that you've bugged and the bug will keep ticking. Wish I'd tried that out myself this weekend.
Wow, I didh't even think to try that!
Yep, so in The Banks, you can bug a computer, get £250 from it every second, then hack it for £40k
I haven't finished the game yet, but I'm at Day 30, with enough money to do The Swindle five times, and more ticking in every second
Whenever I run a bit low I just do a Bank and come out with enough for more Swindle
They really need to add an option to do a Hard run where you start with 50 days or so, so you get maybe two really good cracks at the Swindle.
It's a great little game as it is but the balancing is a tad broken
I haven't finished the game yet, but I'm at Day 30, with enough money to do The Swindle five times, and more ticking in every second
Whenever I run a bit low I just do a Bank and come out with enough for more Swindle
They really need to add an option to do a Hard run where you start with 50 days or so, so you get maybe two really good cracks at the Swindle.
It's a great little game as it is but the balancing is a tad broken
What I always do is make sure I have three or four bugs running before attempting the Swindle. It's a long mission that you are going to have to be very cautious in, yet it's unlikely you'll do it on your first attempt (it took me 8 or so) so it makes sense to use the time to capitalise on the cash rolling in every second, bankrolling your next attempt!
Game has been getting heavily patched, at least on Steam. Reworked some of the early economy stuff, so it's a bit easier to get off your feet and not be totally screwed.
Like cash bundles on the first 2 or 3 days are like 20 bucks instead of 8, so you should be able to afford Hacking after the first day instead of after 2.
Like cash bundles on the first 2 or 3 days are like 20 bucks instead of 8, so you should be able to afford Hacking after the first day instead of after 2.
Wow only 3 pages?! That's depressing.
I picked this up over the weekend for vita and PS4 and I've already developed a love/hate relationship with The Swindle.
I'm bad at it. Like really bad. I've died more times from trying to wall jump, then fluffing the last one causing me to fall to my death than any other way.
I am struggling with the economy, since if I get a run of either failed runs, or impossible runs, I panic spend money and buy upgrades that aren't quite as useful as others.
I've had to reset after I had like 20 failed runs in a row. But I'm really loving this game, it's a shame the vita controls aren't fantastic. Had a lot of deaths because of what felt like delayed responses or low frame rate.
I picked this up over the weekend for vita and PS4 and I've already developed a love/hate relationship with The Swindle.
I'm bad at it. Like really bad. I've died more times from trying to wall jump, then fluffing the last one causing me to fall to my death than any other way.
I am struggling with the economy, since if I get a run of either failed runs, or impossible runs, I panic spend money and buy upgrades that aren't quite as useful as others.
I've had to reset after I had like 20 failed runs in a row. But I'm really loving this game, it's a shame the vita controls aren't fantastic. Had a lot of deaths because of what felt like delayed responses or low frame rate.
I found it worth continuing even if a campaign is doomed- use it to test out the upgrades and settle on the ones you want, learn what the later enemies do, that kind of thing! My first run failed miserably at the final mission, my second campaign took a good 8 cracks at The Swindle to finally complete it, and even then it was touch-and-go. Felt really rewarding though, like I had mastered it, getting through the final mission with your one hit point!
If you are struggling for cash, get the upgrade that marks the location of all computers on the stage, move over the roof to see if you can find an entry point close to one, and try to reach at least one of them each time. Do that until you can buy bombs (buy bombs before the hacking upgrade as bombs will get you through locked doors too), then repeat until you can buy bugs. After that cash won't be so much of an issue, and the difficulty of reaching a terminal slightly mitigated by being able to place a bug a few squares away or even on the floor above.
The remote detonator is a must too, as is the bot.confuse app later on. The agility upgrades are cool, but it's the tools that really mitigate the difficulty by allowing you to turn the enemy traps against themselves.
GroundCombo
Member
I went back and ran through the game again, this time with an A rank and 30-something days to spare. It's really fun once you get to grips with... everything. I've been starting with hack -> double jump -> bombs and lv2 hack -> open second area -> grind 25k for bug, which doesn't take many missions if you have a good multiplier going and have a bit of luck. Then a few necessities such as wall sticking, lv3 hacking and such and the world is yours.
* Play safe. When a situation looks even a little bit iffy, steam purge before going in.
* If a spike pit is in a spot that is even a little bit annoying, bomb the %#%& out of it. Get ten bombs and the blast upgrade soonish.
* Remote detonator with the range upgrade is godlike.
* Play safe. When a situation looks even a little bit iffy, steam purge before going in.
* If a spike pit is in a spot that is even a little bit annoying, bomb the %#%& out of it. Get ten bombs and the blast upgrade soonish.
* Remote detonator with the range upgrade is godlike.