GameplayWhore
Member
There's also the IGN ditty about Wii U mathing out to 5x the performance of the Xbox 360. Ahhh, those were the days!
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There's also the IGN ditty about Wii U mathing out to 5x the performance of the Xbox 360. Ahhh, those were the days!
Controversy: most next-gen ports will run at 540p without the controller screen using 3D graphics. That's how I see things.
Compare a pc with a 6650 to one with a 7850 to get an idea of PS4 vs Wii U. (7870 for Xbox 8)
Didn't Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 used the Super Mario 64 engine?
Wonder if they will create new ones from scratch for those games that require
quite some graphic resources like Metroid, F-Zero, Smash and (if was ever true) that racing game/sim in response to Forza and Gran Turismo we heard about back in April
100% agreed.
I don't care about graphics. If I did then I wouldn't have gotten the Wii. I need some good games and a online system that works great.
Father_Brain
Banned
Iwata has been saying things of that nature, but aside from announcing account-based online (which is important), Nintendo really hasn't shown that much to prove it. Given Nintendo's history, I think skepticism is pretty natural.
There's also the IGN ditty about Wii U mathing out to 5x the performance of the Xbox 360. Ahhh, those were the days!
haha yes they were.
It's been added to my post.
I actually agree with all of this.
My only reason for posting that list of quotes is because I'm tired of people clinging on to one or two quotes to define the Wii U's future or to summarize how a third party feels about Wii U.
Seeing different quotes from different people in the same companies shows people that they can't just look at what one guy says, and assume the entire company believes the same thing.
But I agree that graphics talk needs to go away, and we should move onto talking about games. I know my massive post of quotes sure didn't help so I apologize lol.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Everybody cares about graphics. Just to varying degrees do people put importance on it.
Considering the evolving nature of these systems, along with the fact that it's getting harder and harder to cram faster tech within a typical console-sized casing, it doesn't make sense to go back to the 5-6 year life cycle IMO.
Think how small of a leap we would have gotten if the 720 and PS4 were launched back in 2010 to keep that 5 year life and it's not like node shrinking is getting any easier.
What does that have to do with my post? I never said or indicated in my post that the PS360 was as powerful as the Wii-U and in no way was I bashing the Wii-U.
Do you not agree that it would be a waste of an investment for MS and Sony to spend so much money launching a system that wasn't considerably faster?
TheCongressman1
Member
They probably won't replace it because they build on it for each game, but I would like to see some big changes.
One thing I'd really appreciate is better enemy AI, and procedural enemy placement. It gets really boring knowing exactly where enemies are going to be every time.
Fourth Storm
Member
Has anything really changed? We've always known there would be developers who are expecting more out of next gen and are more happy with what they know of the PS4/Durango specs. And 2x-3x more power than 360 we've always known wouldn't be huge noticeable leaps. But given effort, developers should be able to squeak out relative to Xbox 360:
-true 720p 30fps 2xMSAA
-higher res textures
-somewhat better geometry (or at least on par)
-DX11-level lighting effects
-better tesselation
-possibility of larger areas
-the unique interface
-more disc space to stream in epic fmv backgrounds
Who knows? We heard Nintendo was tinkering with the gpu til the very end. It's possible developers haven't had time to truly utilize the built in lighting hardware and that is going to give games that extra oomph to make us say wow. It could just be one of those things that they add in on top once everything else is in place. I'm still excite. Will it be my go-to system for multiplatform titles, though? Probably not. I might go PC for that. Steam is looking mighty nice next to PS4/Durango. For my taste in games, at least.
-true 720p 30fps 2xMSAA
-higher res textures
-somewhat better geometry (or at least on par)
-DX11-level lighting effects
-better tesselation
-possibility of larger areas
-the unique interface
-more disc space to stream in epic fmv backgrounds
Who knows? We heard Nintendo was tinkering with the gpu til the very end. It's possible developers haven't had time to truly utilize the built in lighting hardware and that is going to give games that extra oomph to make us say wow. It could just be one of those things that they add in on top once everything else is in place. I'm still excite. Will it be my go-to system for multiplatform titles, though? Probably not. I might go PC for that. Steam is looking mighty nice next to PS4/Durango. For my taste in games, at least.
Well I shouldn't have stated that because you're right. I should have said that graphics won't be the main factor in determining whether I'll purchase one. It's the amount of content from third parties and their online system that will.
Well the Zelda demo they showed was built on that engine, sharing some assets and so on. I would imagine they are in the process of updating their engine rather than simply starting from scratch. They essentially treat their engines like Valve treats Source.
Even being pretty pessimistic, i think that at least, ports from durango/PS4 will look better than this gen, for the simple reason that they will have a better technology, and use some of the modern shaders of the next gen. Even if they look bad compared to the actual next gen consoles, they will still look better than actual games. If reports of a pretty powerful machine are true, they may even look good enough than people don't see the difference at first sigh (even with this difference being big in term of resources).
Probably meant "having the best graphics."
-Pyromaniac-
Member
werd up. The longer I can go without buying another console the better things go for Nintendo.
Now I'm a simpleton when it comes to graphics. I did recently purchase a PS3 in January, after being Wii Exclusive from Launch till now, mainly because of the games. I was GC Exclusive and bought a PS2 in 2006 to play Super Robot Wars.
I'll be Satisfied if it just has PS3 Visuals, but the amount of Ram allowing it to run at a smoother rate, and maybe actually allow for real 720/1080p games and not the Upscaled games I end up mainly seeing on some of my games.
I dont see that big of a Power gap between the next Generation though. Sony likes to promote power, but can they afford selling a console at a loss once more if they dont want to repeat another FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS? I highly doubt it Microsoft is really leaning to more of an entertainment device and less on games, you see it more and more. Today at my Best Buy Microsoft set up a new Xbox endcap....in Home Theater. They are really trying to be more multimedia and less games.
I really believe that its going to be more of a performance race (ram wise) than a graphics race. They want multitasking devices. Nintendo's got its own way of doing it with the new controller, but I wouldn't be surprised if microsoft comes out with a windows tablet that is xbox certified, and sony with a Vita Home, that only works by syncing to a PS4 and is only for home use.
So it'll be less of "how many Polys can we dish out" and more of a "How many things can we run at once on this machine without lag?" So I dont see too much of a Quality difference between the Next Gen multiplats if we're just talking games. The only thing I see that casual consumers might not dig about the Wii U is just that it still can't play CD/DVD/Blu Ray formats. And if Developers keep pulling the usual "our games wont sell on Nintendo Platforms" dont release during the launch, the system sells beyond their expectations go "oh snap, we gotta make a quick half assed port for it" it doesnt sell, or pull a "We'll put this one game on the system, depending on how much it sells on the system, we'll continue to support it".
I'll be Satisfied if it just has PS3 Visuals, but the amount of Ram allowing it to run at a smoother rate, and maybe actually allow for real 720/1080p games and not the Upscaled games I end up mainly seeing on some of my games.
I dont see that big of a Power gap between the next Generation though. Sony likes to promote power, but can they afford selling a console at a loss once more if they dont want to repeat another FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS? I highly doubt it Microsoft is really leaning to more of an entertainment device and less on games, you see it more and more. Today at my Best Buy Microsoft set up a new Xbox endcap....in Home Theater. They are really trying to be more multimedia and less games.
I really believe that its going to be more of a performance race (ram wise) than a graphics race. They want multitasking devices. Nintendo's got its own way of doing it with the new controller, but I wouldn't be surprised if microsoft comes out with a windows tablet that is xbox certified, and sony with a Vita Home, that only works by syncing to a PS4 and is only for home use.
So it'll be less of "how many Polys can we dish out" and more of a "How many things can we run at once on this machine without lag?" So I dont see too much of a Quality difference between the Next Gen multiplats if we're just talking games. The only thing I see that casual consumers might not dig about the Wii U is just that it still can't play CD/DVD/Blu Ray formats. And if Developers keep pulling the usual "our games wont sell on Nintendo Platforms" dont release during the launch, the system sells beyond their expectations go "oh snap, we gotta make a quick half assed port for it" it doesnt sell, or pull a "We'll put this one game on the system, depending on how much it sells on the system, we'll continue to support it".
All 3D Mario and Zelda games can be traced back to the SM64 engine... In the same way that UE3 can be traced back to UE1.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Once again, both Sony and MS can release systems that are much stronger than wiiU for a retail price of 399, which is reasonable. And won't be at a loss.
But it won't be a repeat of this gen. That is the bottom line. Because STONE COLD SAID SO.
But it won't be a repeat of this gen. That is the bottom line. Because STONE COLD SAID SO.
We shall see. But there are many similarities. Smaller, quieter system and a lower price (assumed lower price, of course) with a unique controller and not a strong focus on raw horsepower. The only difference I can see is that Nintendo is trying to make this system more desirable to hardcore gamers by having a online network and having the system HD ready. The real major difference though is that the tech will not be as outdated so ports from MS and Sony's next consoles will not be such a problem as it has been with the Wii this generation. So that's a big plus.
The main reason people are concerned about Wii U power and graphics is because they don't want to see 3rd party support evaporate because the system isn't powerful enough.
I think all the more recent iterations though can be traced back to the Wind Waker engine as a core. I could be wrong though.
I think all the more recent iterations though can be traced back to the Wind Waker engine as a core. I could be wrong though.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
AND THAT'S THE BOTTTOM LINEEEE
Studios obviously want to aspire to PC-tier games on consoles, but it is possible? I don't think it will be the same at all.
And Super Mario 64 was originally a SNES game, so you could argue that Nintendo's Wii U games will based on an engine that's 4 generations old, technically.
After E3 2008, I enter every E3 Conference Stream with a Pessimistic View 'cause Reggie likes to keep me down.
Father_Brain
Banned
AGITΩ;37903203 said:
I'm pretty confident that Nintendo is never, ever going to have a conference that overwhelmingly casual-focused again. They learned their lesson, I think; if what they want is gushing coverage of their casual titles from the mainstream press, there are ways of doing that without antagonizing core/enthusiast gamers so much.
ColdBlooder
Banned
AMEN!
Sure, good graphics are nice to have, BUT what is it worth if the gameplay just sucks?
I started replaying SMG1 and MY GAWD is it goregous. Sure it dosen't look as great as a good xbox360/PS3 game but damn its just so much fun to play this game
Thats what its all about.
Nintendo in 2012 has a "all grown up" fanbase. I am 27 and i am going WiiU only next gen (Well, with a moderate PC...) Those fans grew up with Nintendo will ALWAYS stay with Nintendo. My fondest Videogame memory is my first time playing Super Mario 64. Those controls were so super tight and the leveldesign was a work of genius. It blew my mind so frickin hard, it basically made me an instant Nintendo fan.
Those older Fans, who have already their own family, automatically introduce their offsprings/nieces/nephews to Nintendo and they may also become fans.
This propably ensures that Nintendo is here to stay.
All those who scream now because WiiU is not a hardware beast propably just forgot what playing "Nintendo" meant back in the day. It wasn't all about "LOOK AT THOSE GRAFIXXXXXXX"...
When its all said and done, Nintendo will make a profit from next gen. Wether their on 1st, 2nd or 3rd place dosent matter to Nintendo or its fans. It only matters to the 13 year olds or some hardcore dudebro manchild who needs to compensate for something...
Just wanted to say that I would have if I were home maybe.
Speaking of which, I'm going to try to steer expectations in the right direction when I get home.
end up losing big bucks and byebye
sony simply can't take any risk right now.
situation of Vita is worse than PSP. another $599 console? good luck
-Pyromaniac-
Member
If there is one thing Nintendo has learned, and it's something Iwata keeps repeating, is that perceptions are everything. They feel early perceptions killed the Wii for the core audience. So this E3, I expect it to be very gamer oriented.
Yeah, and the stuff Iwata said at the last investor's conference confirms it.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...cater-to-core-gamers-first-mass-market-second
How do you know?
Yup and viewing the conferences after that one, they spent the majority of their conferences talking about hardcore titles.
Did you just question Stone Cold....?
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, if Wii U becomes such an overwhelming success with the core market that Nintendo feels they can afford to take them for granted, as MS seems to be doing this year, I can see that happening at E3 2014 or 2015. But I don't think that's likely.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
first of all, I don't think you understand the rules of stone cold. It's THE BOTTOM LINE.
Secondly, because, the power gap won't be as large. There won't be something like HD vs NON HD. It was understandable why some developers didn't want to port for the wii, but it shouldn't be too hard to downport a lot of games for the wiiU.
The very fact that it will be HD stops it from being a repeat of last gen. It just can't happen. Now I'm not saying all 3rd parties will support it, that's gonna take some work on Nintendo's side, but it wont be like this go-round was.
I don't really get this kind of language. Can we not just say graphics aren't everything and leave it at that without implying HD twin games just can't get gameplay right?
Totally agree!
I never said you were bashing it. Just that the pessimism has hit an all time high in this thread (including the post I responded to). I simply stated that it's a machine that, for all intents and purposes, is 2-3x this gen *on paper* as far as we know. (i.e. better OoO CPU, 2-3x GPU, 3xEDRam/Cache, 3xram, etc) crammed into a pretty small box.
Even with tablet usage, you should be able to expect a cleaner 720p image. Less SubHD, screen tearing, and all the stuff that's found its way into current gen HD titles.
In regards to MS and Sony, however - I think next gen will be more about software/services/user interaction than it will be power. There is no doubt that they will launch with more powerful hardware by at least 5x current gen, and I think Microsoft may even succumb to Epic's requests in some fashion and become the Xbox OG of next gen... but consoles were never about being bleeding edge until MS and Sony went batshit this generation. PCs have always been the home of those who wanted bleeding edge.
RPG_Fanatic said:
The hardware is perfectly capable of receiving ports. The same way that top tier high-spec PC titles were ported to the aging consoles we have now (Crysis, Witcher 2, BF3, etc) the Wii U will be able to receive ports from next gen higher-spec consoles. However the onus is not on the hardware this time around, like for Wii. The onus is on publishers/developers. And I would start tempering your expectations a little more when it comes to those guys.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Where did i say that the hd twins didn't get gameplay right?
I just said that if you have awesome graphics on whatever system/pc what is it worth when the gameplay sucks?
That was meant in general and wasn't directly related to the hd twins!
RPG_Fanatic
Member
I'm perfectly fine with this as long as there are Durango/PS4 ports. I don't want a Wii 2.0 where Nintendo gets screwed over in terms of Third Party support again and the Wii U sales collapse after a few years.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
That's what I've been saying in response to a lot of the Nintendoomed articles that say "Nintendo admit that they were wrong to ignore the hardcore market."
They admitted nothing of the sort. They said that the Wii was "perceived" to be a casual machine. That's very different.
Well when Nintendo gets into a "We're winning" mentality, like the Microsoft, they start pulling out the charts. Microsoft does this almost every conference now, Nintendo stopped doing it recently, but if they pull it off again, I think that still makes them score negative in gamers eyes. We want games, not sales figures. I'm setting expectations a little low this E3 simply because of the 3DS. I love my 3DS, we know its doing gangbusters in Japan, its doing good in the US but not as strong as they would like, but I fear this will cause the return of CHARTS this E3.
I never understood the logic of "What's the point of good graphics if the gameplay sucks".
Good gameplay is expected in all video games. Just like a cell phone is expected to make phone calls. Or apple pie is expected to tastes like apples.
No, not every game is good. But you don't expect developers to make games that aren't fun. And developers don't purposely try to create games with bad gameplay.
Amazing graphics are not always expected (cell phone games) . Just like not every phone or gadget has the same type or number of features.
But amazing graphics are a nice addition and make the overall package feel more quality.
Good gameplay is expected in all video games. Just like a cell phone is expected to make phone calls. Or apple pie is expected to tastes like apples.
No, not every game is good. But you don't expect developers to make games that aren't fun. And developers don't purposely try to create games with bad gameplay.
Amazing graphics are not always expected (cell phone games) . Just like not every phone or gadget has the same type or number of features.
But amazing graphics are a nice addition and make the overall package feel more quality.
Sorry for looking too deeply into that then, just used to hearing that rhetoric levied at them everywhere else.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I don't think graphics are SUPER important but I do think they are a big deal. 99% of the appeal of the wiiU is seeing/playing Nintendo games in HD. The more power we have, the more fully realized the worlds become of the games we love playing, which is something we all want to see.
So I think they are important.
So I think they are important.
Father_Brain
Banned
AGITΩ;37903704 said:
Again, Microsoft has enough of a current-gen lead that they can afford to take the core market for granted... unless Nintendo makes an unexpectedly aggressive play for those gamers, that is. Nintendo doesn't have that luxury, and probably won't at any point during Wii U's lifespan.
ColdBlooder
Banned
why focus development on graphics instead of gameplay?
focus on both or gameplay only, Whats the point of only focusing on the graphics?
EDIT: Of course always depending on what the HW is capable of.
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