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[hydrophilic attack]

Sounds really cool. Shame it never happened.

Also, wow, Xbox leadership sure changed a lot in their approach over their years.

From:

Most of the people interviewed for this feature who worked on Fable credit Microsoft with saving the project. The company did not interfere with the design of the game. Rather, it offered support, resources and production assistance.

"We got proper resources," McCormack remembers. "We went from a team of about 15 in Godalming, to a team of about 90. Lionhead just went, this is the game, and Microsoft went, here's the money, and it just went, boof."

To:

According to three separate sources familiar with Lionhead's relationship with Microsoft in 2012, Xbox executives insisted the studio make a new Fable in the games as a service mould. A single-player focused role-playing game would not be allowed, Lionhead was told. "There's no way anybody's going to be making single-player boxed products any more," sources say Microsoft executives told Lionhead. "I want something that's games as a service."

"You make a service game or you get closed down," was how another source with knowledge of the conversations remembers them. "It was the new big push from Microsoft and I heard that all first party studios got a similar message, however some had more of a push back against it."

Well, not everyone. The pitch was rejected because Lionhead had to switch to making games as a service.

McCormack was incensed by the decision, and says it was one of the reasons he left the company in 2012. "It was like, you've reached your cap of players for RPG on Xbox and you need to find a way to double that, and you're not going to do it with RPG," he says. "I thought, yes we can.

"I said, look, just give us four years, proper finance, give us the chance Mass Effect has, Skyrim has, the games at the time. They're getting four years and a lot of budget. Give us that, and we'll give you something that'll get you your players. Nah, you've had three shots and you've only tripled the money. It's not good enough. Fuck off. That's what I was annoyed about."

It seems Microsoft Game Studios under Spencer was a very different place than during Shane Kim's tenure.

 

[GeordieMark]

Well I beg to differ. What has Microsoft given to its Xbox owners? How many IP's do they have? Fable, though some games aren't the best, is a popular franchise and I know people who bought an Xbox especially for Fable games.

You seriously think you added anything worthwhile to the discussion with that post? Yeah, ok.

Fable is still an MS IP. It just won't be Lionhead making future Fable games.

 

[Daft Punk]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Holy shit. I'm actually getting angry.

 

[leeh]

I disagree.

They had very little experience in the genre. There's no doubt that impacts a studio's ability to meet quality deadlines.

The game being boring in itself related to their inexperience of the genre? I'd definitely agree. Although, development complications I strongly disagree being linked to the genre.

Say, you used a company to design you a content management website a couple of years ago and the finished product was great. After that, you come back a year later and ask them for a blog to be made, but they don't like blogs. After time, they keep asking you for more money due to complications, and when you see the final product, you don't like it. What would you do? Stop paying them and go somewhere else.

 

[Strootman]

First they rejected the vision Insomniac had for Conker

That rumor was fake

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Sounds like they wanted to make a different game and call it Fable. Pretty easy to see why that was shut down.

Pretty much.

I'm sure it could have been a good game.

Also, I'm with MS on the generally knowing how many people are going to buy the game. If anything, it probably would have done worse.

This story just makes me wish there was a Penny Dreadful game.

 

[UrbanRats]

This confuses me because the lead in says it's about Fable 2, but Fable 2 released in 2008 and Princess and the Frog was a 2009 movie.

Maybe they mean the movie was already unpopular before the release? I don't know.
I mean it's easy to believe an exec (from Microsoft or otherwise) from 2008 saying shit like that, but also the article is clearly told from the perspective of Lionhead.

-
Anyway, Fable 2 was really fun, i spent many hours with that game, Fable 1 and 3 were kind shit, both of them.
And even though this pitch doesn't sound as amazing as the guy selling it makes it out to be, it would've been better than what we got: Jack shit.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Sounds like they wanted to make a different game and call it Fable. Pretty easy to see why that was shut down.

As opposed to the games they were forced to actually make?

 

[Heshinsi]

Sounds really cool. Shame it never happened.

Also, wow, Xbox leadership sure changed a lot in their approach over their years.

From:



To:





It seems Microsoft Game Studios under Spencer was a very different place than during Shane Kim's tenure.

Every time people would act as if Phil Spencer is this saviour, all I could think is "have they forgotten this guy was in charge of Xbox first party development?"

 

[pastrami]

Good read, and a real shame what happened with Lionhead. The pitch for Fable 4 sounded cool, but at the end, it's just a pitch. Fable Legends development sounded like a nightmare.

Also a shame that the studio couldn't be salvaged/bought out like Evolution was.

 

[GinoFelino]

The game being boring in itself related to their inexperience of the genre? I'd definitely agree. Although, development complications I strongly disagree with is linked to the genre.

Say, you used a company to design you a content management website a couple of years ago and the finished product was great. After that, you come back a year later and ask them for a blog to be made. Same technologies, different purpose. After time, they keep asking you for more money due to complications, and when you see the final product, you don't like it. What would you do? Stop paying them and go somewhere else.

Except you're the one that owns and mis-managed the company, so it's not that simple after all.

 

[Enduin]

Disgusting. Fable was one of my favourite series. Seeing what happened to it and Lionhead makes me ill. Who the hell at MS is in charge of this disaster?

 

[Raide]

After Fable 3, I did not trust them to make a good sequel. Fable Legends was actually a cool new look at the series but certainly not a Fable sequel.

Series needs to reboot to the amazing promises of Fable 1 and expand on that. Gritty farts in Old London town just ain't that.

 

[shoreu]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

welp i'm now 100% against whomever that exec was.

 

[Leflus]

First they rejected the vision Insomniac had for Conker, and now that ... Microsoft, why ?

Lol. That was a fake leak made up by a college student.

MS saying no to Fable IV is pretty damn terrible, though. A new Fable with improved tech and ideas on Xbox One made so much sense to me.

I'm seriously having problems understanding why they would drop a succesful franchise like Fable like a sack of potatoes. It baffles my mind.

 

[leeh]

Except you're the one that owns and mis-managed the company, so it's not that simple after all.

Microsoft is the client/customer in this scenario. They aren't mis-managing them at all. They have their own managers. They're simply paying them to do work for them.

 

[harSon]

Pretty much.

I'm sure it could have been a good game.

Also, I'm with MS on the generally knowing how many people are going to buy the game. If anything, it probably would have done worse.

This story just makes me wish there was a Penny Dreadful game.

I don't blame them for declining the Fable 4 pitch, but in retrospect, it would have been an infinitely better thing than Fable Legends to waste money on. At least you would have been able to sell the product at retail, and recoup costs through traditional sales and bundling - as opposed to some $75 million F2P monstrosity where revenue is reduced to consumer purchase revenue.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Every time people would act as if Phil Spencer is this saviour, all I could think is "have they forgotten this guy was in charge of Xbox first party development?"

And every time people act as if Phil Spencer is responsible for steering the ship straight into the rocks, all I can think is "have they never experienced life in middle management?"

 

[zero86r]

Well shit that sounded fantastic...

 

[Cipherr]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Bruh godDAMN

 

[harSon]

Every time people would act as if Phil Spencer is this saviour, all I could think is "have they forgotten this guy was in charge of Xbox first party development?"

It's almost like people have never worked a day in their life. Businesses tend to take on the direction that their CEO and division leaders set. You're fooling yourself if you don't believe head strong people like Balmer and Mattrick didn't have their finger prints on everything that happened at Xbox.

 

[SOR5]

It seems Microsoft Game Studios under Spencer was a very different place than during Shane Kim's tenure.

I just posted in this thread commenting about the obsession of Spencers involvement but:

Spencer was in charge in 2012? Phil Harrison was in charge of their Interactive Entertainment Business and European Studios as a whole, Mattrick was running the entire show. Ballmer was running the show above him!

I know there seems to be some disdain that makes people scrunch their faces in disgust at the assumption that Phil Spencer wasnt primarily responsible, but he wasnt. "Corporate crimes" are a muddied gang of networks, I know it its fun to play the evil exec game, but its not that simple.

Im sure Spencers got his share of crap decisions under his belt, to my knowledge he even "took responsibility" for the DRM scandal, but this isnt one of them

 

[le.phat]

This Shit looked a lot more interesting than Gears.

That looks about as interesting as your average militairy shooter trailer. Which is to say, .....meeeeeeeeeh...

 

[GinoFelino]

Microsoft is the client/customer in this scenario. They aren't mis-managing them at all. They have their own managers. You're simply paying them to do work for you.

I understand your point, but it's an oversimplification.

Studios generally stick to a single genre for a reason.

 

[GeordieMark]

Lol. That was a fake leak made up by a college student.

MS saying no to Fable IV is pretty damn terrible, though. A new Fable with improved tech and ideas on Xbox One made so much sense to me.

I'm seriously having problems understanding why they would drop a succesful franchise like Fable like a sack of potatoes. It baffles my mind.

They haven't dropped Fable, just Fable Legends. They have retained the Fable IP so its not quite dead yet.

 

[LiK]

MS screwed it up. Nice job.

 

[scitek]

In fact;


So being in charge specifically of European studios like Lionhead was his literal direct responsibility until 2014.

Sounds like the $75m disaster was under his watch.

EDIT: Or he had little involvement. Whichever lol

 

[pastrami]

Microsoft is the client/customer in this scenario. They aren't mis-managing them at all. They have their own managers. You're simply paying them to do work for you.

Did you read the article? I mean, it's from Lionhead's perspective, but it looks like Microsoft kept asking Lionhead to add things. Like Windows 10 support, cross platform play (anti cheat measures needed), and on top of that, being a DX12 showcase with global illumination and all that jazz.

Reminds me of the Phantom Dust rumors where Microsoft kept changing the scope of the game.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The idea of a steampunk Jules Verne-esque London sounds really awesome, and it would be nice continuity to see Bowerstone grow and become more important as the games progress. However, I don't like the idea of an R-rated Fable with swearing and prostitutes - that's a bit too seedy and not the kind of thing I'd be looking for in a Fable game.

What an awful case of terrible management by MS which caused them to sink money and have their own problems fixed in the mean-time.

If only Phil ran the division at the time.

Hey Leeh, guess who was the head of Microsoft Game Studios before he was made head of Xbox?! I'll give you three guesses.

 

[enzo_gt]

You are aware they green-lit Fable Legends?

Which is also much, much, much closer to the brand image than what is proposed in OP.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

You mean the proof of concept thing that materialized into nothing?

Yeah I wish The Samaritan was a game too

In the Game Informer coverage of Gears 4 one of the head guys at the studio literally said they were working on it for 2 years before it got scrapped in favour of Gears.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

If you're dumb enough to believe this story which is full of holes.

 

[Plinko]

So they just wanted to turn it into an older version of GTA?

 

[_Ryo_]

Sounds very steampunk. It probably would have sold really well.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What a disappointment. I don't personally like the harder edged themes for the proposed Fable IV concept, but the move toward a Victorian era technology and massive city might have been pretty cool if I wasn't already tired of bloated metropolises of the Rockstar and Ubisoft variety. I just wish we could have gotten a real take on Project Ego as a more dynamic, player-driven experience. The original Fable, as much as it pared back its ambitions for whatever reasons, got a lot right in its overall direction. MS still desperately needs a full-blooded adventure fantasy franchise...their Zelda...that isn't hijacked by trendy experiments and Fable could still be it. After a decade and a half of Xbox, outside of Playground and maybe Rare right now, MS doesn't seem to know how to manage their game development resources for the long term outside of the core in NA. They need more visionary game people running the show because Halo and Gears can't and won't last as sales drivers and just start to feel a bit played out in a shifting evolution of tastes for gaming.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Fable sales were on a downward decline after two. WHat are you talking about? Not only that, I'm not sure what your comment does to address the points I made.

I think Fable III sold better than II.

 

[SOR5]

Hey Leeh, guess who was the head of Microsoft Game Studios before he was made head of Xbox?! I'll give you three guesses.

Guess which role has substantially less of a footprint compared to head of the entire division...?

Again, what is this obsession of overblowing Spencers involvement?, if he's in charge of MGS, he's in charge of everything, if he's in charge of Xbox, he's in charge of everything.
Phil Harrison doesn't matter, Yusuf Mehdi doesn't matter, Steve Ballmer doesn't matter, Don Mattrick doesn't matter.

The argument of "Spencer did it" is equally as wrong as "Spencer would have stopped it" within that corporate structure, MS was a mess.

MS screwed it up. Nice job.

Name one thing they didn't back then and i'll applaud you

 

[Justified]

This confuses me because the lead in says it's about Fable 2, but Fable 2 released in 2008 and Princess and the Frog was a 2009 movie.

The Princess and the Frog was announced in 2006 (As The Frog Princess, name change happen in 2007),

It was a big controversy starting in 2006 because of the Black lead (from both sides for different reasons)

I can see someone thinking about the media news it created, and making that statment

 

[Leflus]

They haven't dropped Fable, just Fable Legends. They have retained the Fable IP so its not quite dead yet.

Maybe I should have been more clear with my post.

I was talking about how they dropped the RPG series in favor of the GaaS nonsense. They dropped a well recieved and popular series (numbered Fable games) in favor of something unknown and unwanted (Fable Legends).

 

[H3xum]

So is there a chance that Microsoft could pump out another Fable, just with a different team?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So is there a chance that Microsoft could pump out another Fable, just with a different team?

That they refused to sell the IP along with Lionhead before shuttering the whole operation says that's the plan.

 

[H3xum]

That they refused to sell the IP along with Lionhead before shuttering the whole operation says that's the plan.

Well, I guess I have that to carefully look forward to

 

[hemo memo]

Ehh, not a fan of that pitch.

The choice of words. I mean "We wanted to hit the late Victorian proper far out Jules Verne shit,"
"this kind of weird fucked up London environment".
"I was like, man, this is going to be fucking brilliant, and everybody was really into it."
"Nah, you've had three shots and you've only tripled the money. It's not good enough. Fuck off. That's what I was annoyed about." !!

 

[SOR5]

So is there a chance that Microsoft could pump out another Fable, just with a different team?

If they did, they'll hire an external team or Rare.

 

[GinoFelino]

Which is also much, much, much closer to the brand image than what is proposed in OP.

Fable 1-3 had dark, british humour and grim segments.

What do you believe the brand image is to think a F2P asynchronously MP game wouldn't disappoint fans of the series on concept alone?

A big steampunk/magic RPG with dark humour set in Victorian London/Albion? I don't see how that couldn't at all work.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The choice of words. I mean "We wanted to hit the late Victorian proper far out Jules Verne shit,"
"this kind of weird fucked up London environment".
"I was like, man, this is going to be fucking brilliant, and everybody was really into it."
"Nah, you've had three shots and you've only tripled the money. It's not good enough. Fuck off. That's what I was annoyed about." !!

Yeah, can't have any passion for the projects you want to work on. No profit in that.

 

[LordRaptor]

Again, what is this obsession of overblowing Spencers involvement?, if he's in charge of MGS, he's in charge of everything, if he's in charge of Xbox, he's in charge of everything.

Uhhh... yeah, when specifically referring to Microsoft Game Studios EMEA up to 2008 and Microsoft Game Studios World Wide up to 2014, that was literally Phil spencers job.
As in, their output, overall management and direction was his responsibility, and he had direct oversight over that.

 

[DOWN]

They always under delivered on good plans tho

 

[Dabanton]

Fable for me has always been a uniquely british view of RPG's

With a lighter tone than usually seen in western RPG's, having prostitutes and jack the ripper? Just sounds like a different thing all together.

 

[SOR5]

Uhhh... yeah, when specifically referring to Microsoft Game Studios EMEA up to 2008 and Microsoft Game Studios World Wide up to 2014, that was literally Phil spencers job.
As in, their output, overall management and direction was his responsibility, and he had direct oversight over that.

And the output of the entire divisions work and goals? Who was that?

And the output of what their European studios were working on? Who was that?

And the output of what their entire corporate culture was dedicated towards? Who was that?

And the output of what marketing priorities they had? Who was that?

Im not trying to protect Spencer, if somebody goes "Phil Spencers decision was to cancel Fable Legends" , thats him, and thats his responsibility, But the entire direction of the Xbox division of the already chaotic structure combined with outsourced marketing companies? Yeah, I doubt thats just Spencer

Its correct to blame a company, but this homing in on one executive figure no matter how relevant is bizaare.