Support NeoGAF

[Breakfast at Noon]

If it does not sell like Bungies Halo or Epics Gears, Scrap it

 

[Warxard]

I wanted that new IP.

What new IP?

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

If it does not sell like Bungies Halo or Epics Gears, Scrap it

I bet 5 that this why black tusk took on gears instead of the spy game. Wasn't trying to be on that chopping block. MS first party sounds like some hunger games shit.

What new IP?

The spy heist game they were working on before gears.

 

[leeh]

'Phil' shut down Lionhead. Is that better somehow?

Are you surprised after sinking 75m into something that resulted in nothing? Especially when it should of released much earlier than it did.

 

[Matrix XII]

It wouldn't have worked, the premise didn't sound very good at all.

I can see why it was stopped.

 

[GeordieMark]

It also comes from history, of which I've thoroughly enjoyed Lionhead's games (save for the Kinect shite). Given the amount of time that they'd have liked and the budget, I have no doubt it would have been great.

Its more likely it would have taken 6 years, and more money than they originally budgeted for, given the way previous projects went. I'd take this article with a big pinch of salt.

 

[Warxard]

I
The spy heist game they were working on before gears.

You mean the proof of concept thing that materialized into nothing?

Yeah I wish The Samaritan was a game too

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

This Shit looked a lot more interesting than Gears.

 

[xzeldax3]

Sounds like it could have been something great.

 

[LordRaptor]

I'd say that the most succesful marketing campaigns in recent memory have spawned out of actively challenging the existing preconceptions and creating a new "status quo." Hearty breakfast? 100% the result of marketing. Gendered colors for babies? 100% the result of marketing.

These norms only existed because someone decided to begin heavily marketing them. Hell, Budweiser changed the idea that beer should be served at room temperature because of their marketing.

Keeping the status quo means you don't know how to do your job or don't have the freedom to do your job better. The unfortunate reality is that most marketing positions aren't give the vertical freedom to expand a consumer base because it's "good enough" for the shareholders in the immediate reality.

I mean, sure, if your product tastes even more like piss when its served lukewarm than when its icey cold on a hot day, its a good idea to market it that way.
There's also famous examples about what colour salmon should be.

When I say a large part is based on preconceptions though, go ahead and find an alcohol ad that isn't cool dude with hot chicks ready to PAR-TAY because he brought the alcohol literally not giving a fuck about the rapey subtext of 'get girls drunk if you want to fuck them', or cleaning product ads (with basically the sole outlier being Mr Muscle due to the brand name, and thats usually played for laughs) that go straight to the 'mom' figure because its a womans job to clean and wash up.

There might well be good marketers who do things differently, but the majority aren't and don't.

 

[Flipyap]

Fable was a series about communicating through the universal language of farts, "darker and grittier" is the last thing it should become. Fable 3 already moved in that direction and its version of "fucked up London" was absolutely miserable.

 

[Sylas]

I mean, sure, if your product tastes even more like piss when its served lukewarm than when its icey cold on a hot day, its a good idea to market it that way.
There's also famous examples about what colour salmon should be.

When I say a large part is based on preconceptions though, go ahead and find an alcohol ad that isn't cool dude with hot chicks ready to PAR-TAY because he brought the alcohol literally not giving a fuck about the rapey subtext of 'get girls drunk if you want to fuck them', or cleaning product ads (with basically the sole outlier being Mr Muscle due to the brand name, and thats usually played for laughs) that go straight to the 'mom' figure because its a womans job to clean and wash up.

There might well be good marketers who do things differently, but the majority aren't and don't.

Right. All I was saying is that the most successful marketing campaigns have actively challenged the status quo--but people don't have the balls to let anyone do that.

 

[sibarraz]

That pitch sounds super dumbs, is like the stereotype of PRESS A FOR AWESOME that sometimes people criticize

"FLYING MACHINES, WHORES!"

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

You mean the proof of concept thing that materialized into nothing?

Yeah I wish The Samaritan was a game too

No, I could have sworn that cboat and that game Informer interview said that they were working on the game before they canned it and switched to Gears. Some cool stuff from that game was brought into gears (like dynamic animation). Also samartain(or something else that looked quite similar to it) was a game iirc and got cancelled.

 

[shandy706]

This confuses me because the lead in says it's about Fable 2, but Fable 2 released in 2008 and Princess and the Frog was a 2009 movie.

Well then...

 

[Impeccable]

Cap on RPGs? Feels bad.

 

[Black Mantis]

"And that was going to be Fable 4, and it would be darker and grittier. And because it was R-rated it would have the prostitutes and the humour. I was like, man, this is going to be fucking brilliant, and everybody was really into it."

Not sure why anyone's surprised it got rejected looking at this line. Whilst the games definitely had a risque element to them, R-rated, dark and gritty don't really spring to mind when I think of Fable.

 

[GinoFelino]

Are you surprised after sinking 75m into something that resulted in nothing? Especially when it should of released much earlier than it did.

I am. They should have realised Fable Legends was a terrible idea to force down Lionhead's throat.

Mr. Spencer should have realised that Fable Legends' failure didn't mean Lionhead would be unable to create another succesful game. I think a Fable 4 would have been a huge win for the Xbox One games library.

 

[Sylas]

Well then...

What's more likely--someone accidentally hitting the 2 instead of the 3 or someone lying about corporate interests?

 

[bidguy]

This Shit looked a lot more interesting than Gears.

im so sad that this is gone

 

[bede-x]

Sounds exactly like the kind of Fable game I want. On the other hand Fable Legends or Fable Journey sound exactly like the kind of Fable I do not want.

Sad that it sounds like it'll mostly be about services and Live subscriptions going forward, but I suspected as much.

 

[Darksol]

Jesus. No words at this stupidity.

 

[BleedOrange]

Pitch doesn't sound all that great to me either. Especially set within a Fable universe. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Ghost]

Kinda seemed like some shit was going down with the way they released 3 'in between games' in a row (the journey, the remake and that Fable dolls beat-em-up thing) but yeah to hear them say 'we want games as a service' shows how poorly MS read the market. They basically looked at the top-grossing thing and said 'We want that money', completely ignoring all the massive success that good traditional experiences were still getting.


I do find it strange that the decision with Rare was to say 'right lets get this sorted out and get them back making games again', while with Lionhead it seems to be 'oh fuck, let's shut this down', maybe the cost of getting no product from both it's major UK studios for 4 years while they sort themselves out was just too high to be justified.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

 

[Muppet of a Man]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Bill knew. He wanted off this roller coaster ride of bullshit before most knew there was one.

 

[H3xum]

I knew I shouldn't have read this

Now I am just upset.

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

That pitched game would've been torn apart places like here.

It's everything wrong with AAA.

 

[lazygecko]

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Fable was far from the first game to have gay marriage.

 

[Ehker]

What an awful case of terrible management by MS which caused them to sink money and have their own problems fixed in the mean-time.

If only Phil ran the division at the time.

Are you surprised after sinking 75m into something that resulted in nothing? Especially when it should of released much earlier than it did.

Hold on, Phil was actually in charge of Xbox since March 2014, and in charge of the studio until closing it recently. You can't act like he wasn't given a chance.

 

[harSon]

I don't blame Microsoft for not moving forward with it. The pitch sounds nice on paper, but that's Lionhead in a nutshell. This is the studio whose been on a decline since the release of Fable 2 in 2008. This is the studio whose output for the last 6 years has been an arcade game, an awful kinect game, a remaster and a game that was still in beta 4 years into development. As much as it pains me to say since I'm a huge fan of Bullfrog and Lionhead prior to Fable 3, I wouldn't have had confidence that they could realize that concept into something worthwhile if I were them.

Hold on, Phil was actually in charge of Xbox since March 2014, and in charge of the studio until closing it recently. You can't act like he wasn't given a chance.

To be fair, Fable Legends has been in development since 2012.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Uhhh, is this the same MS that published a Halo 5 where 75%+ of the game is spent playing from a black character's vantage point and women are heavily featured in the story and plot?

What the hell?

Fable =/= Halo sadly so little feedom from "marketing" douchebags.

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Fucking disgusting.

Also Bill Hicks? Yo.

 

[shandy706]

What's more likely--someone accidentally hitting the 2 instead of the 3 or someone lying about corporate interests?

Because I don't know. 50/50

He could be making stuff up by using a movie based on race to help his comments.

Or he could be telling the truth and it's a typo.

Could be either. So I'll avoid joining either bandwagon.

 

[GinoFelino]

That pitched game would've been torn apart places like here.

It's everything wrong with AAA.

This pitch was in 2012 or earlier. It was pre-Order 1886 and AC:Syndicate.

I think it sounds way cooler than AC:Syndicate, at the very least.

 

[bman94]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

What. The. Fuck. That legitimately pisses me off.

 

[nOoblet16]

im so sad that this is gone

Which game was that?

 

[SOR5]

Words cannot stress how much I despise the period between 2011-2013.

Also why do these threads always have a battle over Phil Spencer involvement? People are both desperate to drag MS through shit and defend them valiantly.

 

[GinoFelino]

Hold on, Phil was actually in charge of Xbox since March 2014, and in charge of the studio until closing it recently. You can't act like he wasn't given a chance.

Yeah, but that factual information doesn't match up with the Phil = Xbox Jesus narrative, so let's ignore that for now.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Sounds like it would've been a cool fable game.

I hope MS does go in that direction should they wish to continue with the franchise.

RIP lion head

 

[jelly]

This Shit looked a lot more interesting than Gears.

That was the most exciting thing of the Xbox One era for me. I don't care much for Gears so was sad to see it never come to anything even if it was just a tease of nothing concrete. Espionage, high tech, stealth entry, new IP. My imagination said hell yes.

Gears is Phil's favourite, Black Tusk had safer certainty of success with Gears, I totally get that but still sucks we didn't get something new like that.

 

[Shadowheart]

I don't buy it. This is their third game. They could've gotten their tech and dev flow in check by now.
Maybe it is a case of them biting more than they can chew. Maybe they over promised and couldn't back track or live up to their own expectations. There are a lot of things going on during the development process, but blaming someone else for tour last entry in a series long effort I don't buy.
You had good run. You released multiple games. We all learned a few things. Now it's time to move on elegantly.

 

[Strootman]

This Shit looked a lot more interesting than Gears.

Awesome gameplay here...

 

[LordRaptor]

Hold on, Phil was actually in charge of Xbox since March 2014, and in charge of the studio until closing it recently. You can't act like he wasn't given a chance.

In fact;

Before being named general manager of Microsoft Studios worldwide in 2008, and promoted to corporate vice president in 2009, Spencer served as general manager of Microsoft Game Studios EMEA, working with the European development community.

So being in charge specifically of European studios like Lionhead was his literal direct responsibility until 2014.

 

[Stevey]

Glad they rejected it.
Dark and gritty is the complete opposite of what Fable is

 

[HanzSnubSnub]

That sounds awesome, I can't believe Microsoft didn't greenlight this. They are dying for great exclusives.

 

[soundscream]

What's more likely--someone accidentally hitting the 2 instead of the 3 or someone lying about corporate interests?

But he also said,

John McCormack remembers butting heads with Microsoft's marketing department over Fable.

"The marketing was shit," he says. "It was terrible. They just didn't get it. But it wasn't Microsoft's marketing. Marketing was like its own department.

How can it be Microsoft and not Microsoft?

 

[shiftplusone]

"Jack the Ripper is actually a werewolf" is some Sherlock fanfiction or some shit

so goofy

Hold on, Phil was actually in charge of Xbox since March 2014, and in charge of the studio until closing it recently. You can't act like he wasn't given a chance.

shhhh good guy phil

 

[SOR5]

That sounds awesome, I can't believe Microsoft didn't greenlight this. They are dying for great exclusives.

Another Fable? Any new and good IP they fund is a win

That stretch of literally only having Forza/Gears/Fable/Halo/Kinect (with crap installments) was quite definitely the dark age of Xbox, with E3 2013 as the startling epiphany that their approach was disgusting. Let things like Scalebound or Recore find their feet, not another Fable

How can it be Microsoft and not Microsoft?

Pre-Nadella was fractured to the point it seemed like different companies at war, i'm sure theres a commonly used drawing of corporate structures comparing Google, Apple and MS then

 

[Rymuth]

You mean the proof of concept thing that materialized into nothing?

They worked on that thing for two years.

**Link**

They were up to multiple levels, if I recall Jason Schreier's article correctly. Level 6 or 7 was called Shangheist and the game was called RANGER.

It had gone beyond proof of concept. It was a new IP

 

[JaggedSac]

Wow, Microsoft dropped then fuckin ball on this. That Fable 4 sounds damn brilliant. Whoever's idea it was to force games as a service on them can go suck a dick.

But he also said,



How can it be Microsoft and not Microsoft?

They probably pay a company to handle their marketing.