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[hemo memo]

I always point to WoW as a good example. The players are given the freedom to create what they want, and last I checked either at least 40% of the game's population is comprised of female characters. That's not an insignificant chunk of the playerbase.

It's what the market buys because it's what's available to them. Many games starring female characters or POC characters don't sell well because they aren't very good games to begin with. It has little to do with the gender or skin color of the characters at play.

This support your point.
http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8153213/the-games-industry-is-wrong-about-kids-gaming-and-gender

 

[Callibretto]

I like the pitches about moving to industrial age, not sure I like that it take place in real city like London, and definitely no for R rated gritty Fable.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Oh is that who it came from? I thought it would of stemmed from Don at the time.


In all fairness, only because they sank 75 million into a project which everyone was calling boring.

True man, but wasn't it practically finished? Might as well just release it then as well. Legends should have never been greenlit. Not sure if this dark Fable would have worked but at least a normal singleplayer Fable 4 would have been so much better. Let's wait and see what MS has for us during E3 in terms of new IP.

 

[GeordieMark]

The pitch sounded a mess, and not at all in the spirit of Fable so I can understand it being knocked back. Its easy to knock the GAAS idea now in hindsight, but there is nothing inherently wrong with that approach. Lionhead just failed to execute on the vision. Its also tripe to suggest Legends was forced onto them. That isn't the case.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

That looks good on paper, but the reality would be much different.

 

[Eraser_Arcade]

How can it be Microsoft and not Microsoft?

I guess it was something like this:

 

[Robdraggoo]

The pitch sounds great with the exceptions of the dark undertones. Reading it had me thinking miyazakis castle in the sky. I would love a game with that art style.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

But he also said,



How can it be Microsoft and not Microsoft?

Uh he's being metaphorical. I think the message is that marketing should exist to help game devs but this one made game devs work to please marketers. In his eyes.

Or maybe a different marketing company was hired?

 

[Orniletter]

Princess and the Frog is not the most unsuccessful movie Disney has made. Or unsuccessful at all.

They've made outright bombs compared to PatF's moderate success.

What a dumb comment.

 

[soundscream]

Wow, Microsoft dropped then fuckin ball on this. That Fable 4 sounds damn brilliant. Whoever's idea it was to force games as a service on them can go suck a dick.



They probably pay a company to handle their marketing.

Which is why the article should have stated that if so, because people are all ready running with that quote about the cover as if it was an Xbox exec who said it.

 

[SOR5]

Its also tripe to suggest Legends was forced onto them.

There seems to be a narrative pushed when it was cancelled that Lionhead loved Legends and that it was cruelly robbed from them, now theres this perspective that Legends is this disgusting mistake that was forced upon them, wont be surprised to see users trying to push both narratives at the same time for sensationalism.

 

[0coolclimate0]

That sounded like a good pitch but if anything Lionhead is known for is: great pitches.

My first thought as well.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Princess and the Frog is not the most unsuccessful movie Disney has made. Or unsuccessful at all.

They've made outright bombs compared to PatF's moderate success.

Advertisers: Not as much a success as Frozen or Toy Story == Failure.

Needs Profit of 10x original budget to be a "success".

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Let's just hope that MS' way of thinking has changed a little since then. Risks is exactly what you need to take sometimes. Can't keep playing it safe, people will grow tired of the same stuff after a while.

 

[TalonJH]

Don't really care about the R-rated twist (as long as the tone stays similar i'm okay) but everything else sounds really cool.

 

[Monty Mole]

Fable 2 had a 4 year development time and it didn't come close to realising the vision. And whilst this concept for Fable 4 sounds incredible, I just can't see Lionhead would have ever pulled it off successfully. The Fable games were fun but unpolished and seriously ropey around the edges.

 

[GinoFelino]

There seems to be a narrative pushed when it was cancelled that Lionhead loved Legends and that it was cruelly robbed from them, now theres this perspective that Legends is this disgusting mistake that was forced upon them, wont be surprised to see users trying to push both narratives at the same time for sensationalism.

You do realise both options can exist simultaneously?

A project forced upon you that you grew to love because you put your heart and soul into it for years?

 

[SOR5]

Let's just hope that MS' way of thinking has changed a little since then. Risks is exactly what you need to take sometimes.

Their recent investments have been a combination of absolutely playing it safe (Minecraft, Halo, Gears, Forza etc.) and risky (Ori, D4, Sea of Thieves, Cuphead etc.)

You do realise both options can exist simultaneously?

A project forced upon you that you grew to love because you put your heart and soul into it for years?

Being forced to make a project with a gun to your head and having your creativity suppressed cannot exist simultaneously at the same time as a passion project tragically cancelled, people need to choose which sob story they want.Of course the entire situation is bad, but peoples perspectives are wishy-washy beyond belief.

 

[jelly]

In fact;


So being in charge specifically of European studios like Lionhead was his literal direct responsibility until 2014.

Not completely true, he was head of Microsoft Studios in Europe until 2008 then became general manager of Microsoft Studios and soon after got promoted to Vice President of Microsoft Studios until he became Xbox head in 2014.

 

[GeordieMark]

Let's just hope that MS' way of thinking has changed a little since then. Risks is exactly what you need to take sometimes. Can't keep playing it safe, people will grow tired of the same stuff after a while.

How was Legends not more of a risk than Fable 4? They did exactly what you are suggesting and took a more ambitious risky approach with something entirely new.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Not trying to discredit the guy, but I'd like to hear MS side of the story, rather than a bitter ex-employee.

The game he pitched in this story doesn't sound like something I'd be any from a Fable game though.

 

[GinoFelino]

Not trying to discredit the guy, but I'd like to hear MS side of the story, rather than a bitter ex-employee.

The game he pitched in this story doesn't sound like something I'd be any from a Fable game though.

You'll never get closer to the truth than you will with this article..

 

[Andodalf]

ehhhhh, This sounds really hard to achieve, and comes from a company known for over promising and under delivering.

 

[samn]

This pitch sounds way too ambitious to be successfully realised by a (sorry to be blunt) crummy little studio like Lionhead. They're not Rockstar, they're not Bethesda, they're not even Ubisoft. They haven't put out a game worth the $60 asking price in god knows how long.

 

[GeordieMark]

You'll never get closer to the truth than you will with this article..

How so? You know this for a fact, or just your opinion?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

ehhhhh, This sounds really hard to achieve, and comes from a company known for over promising and under delivering.

Yeah, I don't see how they could have made this game with the team size they had. Sounds awesome, though.

 

[Pinky]

Ehh, not a fan of that pitch.

 

[leeh]

I am. They should have realised Fable Legends was a terrible idea to force down Lionhead's throat.

Mr. Spencer should have realised that Fable Legends' failure didn't mean Lionhead would be unable to create another succesful game. I think a Fable 4 would have been a huge win for the Xbox One games library.

If a development studio sinks 75mil into a F2P project that is plagued with delays and bad feedback, do you really think they're going to be trusted to develop a game with a way larger scope?

 

[GinoFelino]

How so? You know this for a fact, or just your opinion?

Sorry if that sounded mysterious.

I meant that Microsoft will never release an honest statement about what happened with Fable 4/Lionhead/any of this.

If a development studio sinks 75mil into a F2P project that is plagued with delays and bad feedback, do you really think they're going to be trusted to develop a game with a way larger scope?

If I force FROM Software to make a MOBA and it fails, I'd still trust them to make a good Soulsborne game.

 

[CHC]

I mean, the ideas sound cool but the whole point of a pitch is to sound cool. Lionhead was by no means a bad studio but they didn't exactly have a flawless record for executing, either.

I'm sure it would have been another Fable game, with the good and the bad historically attached to that series.

 

[nOoblet16]

That was the most exciting thing of the Xbox One era for me. I don't care much for Gears so was sad to see it never come to anything even if it was just a tease of nothing concrete. Espionage, high tech, stealth entry, new IP. My imagination said hell yes.

Gears is Phil's favourite, Black Tusk had safer certainty of success with Gears, I totally get that but still sucks we didn't get something new like that.

It was a 30 second teaser half of which was just a guy rappling down with fireworks to make for pretty scenery and the last bit being some mechanism inside a fictional gun. I don't see what was very exciting about it. I'm sure plenty of stelth games would sound amazing if you just talk about the basics like take SC: Blacklist for example spy and espionage, high tech, stealth entry...lol

 

[Plague Doctor]

Damnit. I would have played the fuck out of this game.

 

[qa_engineer]

Fable was one of the few games I cared about on the Xbox platform. Played the shit out of the original on my og Xbox in college. They should just sell the IP and rights, unless they've already done that, in which case fuck yea.

 

[leeh]

If I force FROM Software to make a MOBA and it fails, I'd still trust them to make a good Soulsborne game.

Just because it's a game genre that they're not passionate about, doesn't mean they fail to remember how to correctly budget, plan and estimate.

 

[Complicated]

Would've been funny if they had greenlit it and it came out the same year as The Order and AC: Syndicate. Doesn't sound like what Fable should've become though. They could've done a new IP with that idea, but it just doesn't make sense for Fable.

 

[Admodieus]

And some wonder why/how Microsoft's IP stable has gotten stale for a lot of people.

The XBox leadership post-Kinect until post-XBone launch really just decimated the goodwill and advantage that they had built. Who wouldn't play this game?

 

[LordRaptor]

You do realise both options can exist simultaneously?

A project forced upon you that you grew to love because you put your heart and soul into it for years?

This is sometimes referred to as Stockholm Syndrome

Not completely true, he was head of Microsoft Studios in Europe until 2008 then became general manager of Microsoft Studios and soon after got promoted to Vice President of Microsoft Studios until he became Xbox head in 2014.

Yes, so his actual job description entailed direct oversight of Lionhead for the unspecified period covering the OG Xboxs lifespan, and included the entire duration of the 360s life span.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

Xbox, #NOT4thePlayers, only #4thePayers.

 

[GeordieMark]

Xbox, #NOT4thePlayers, only #4thePayers.

Grow up mate. This is an awful post.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Their recent investments have been a combination of absolutely playing it safe (Minecraft, Halo, Gears, Forza etc.) and risky (Ori, D4, Sea of Thieves, Cuphead etc.)



Being forced to make a project with a gun to your head and having your creativity suppressed cannot exist simultaneously at the same time as a passion project tragically cancelled, people need to choose which sob story they want.Of course the entire situation is bad, but peoples perspectives are wishy-washy beyond belief.

Quantum Break was a bit risky as well. Do you think that Microsoft from 2012 would have greenlit QB? I doubt that. It makes me wonder what the MS of today will do when it comes to Alan Wake 2 for example, since the first one sold nicely, but not incredibly great, did it?

How was Legends not more of a risk than Fable 4? They did exactly what you are suggesting and took a more ambitious risky approach with something entirely new.

Ah yes, i stand corrected on that. I guess it was indeed more of a risk, just such a shame it didn't result in something great.

 

[GinoFelino]

Just because it's a game genre that they're not passionate about, doesn't mean they fail to remember how to correctly budget, plan and estimate.

I disagree.

They had very little experience in the genre. There's no doubt that impacts a studio's ability to meet quality deadlines.

 

[SOR5]

They could've done a new IP with that idea.

Knowing the horrible mismanagement from Microsoft around that time, that wouldve made it even less likelier to pass verification.

Anytime "New IP" was brought up it seemed to be met with "How will it use Kinect?" "Can we put Master Chief in there?" "Will it go well with beer pong?"

Thank fuck there's been some new IP's recently, I loath the thought of anything Kinect and that entire era

 

[Vince DiCola]

The way Microsoft seem to approach AAA development and treat their own studio is kinda strange from the outside.

They have a handful of great or promising IPs, they have a few really talented studios and the means to finance almost any project they want but instead they cancel projects, close studios and moneyhat Tomb Raider FFS

Look at Sony, while they aren't perfect they gave Naughty Dog time to do Uncharted justice, let them do a risky (at the time) new IP with Last of Us and they've flourished. Compare that to Rare.. PDZ anyone? Banjo Nuts n Bolts? Fuck it, make Kinect games.

I know Sony close studios too but cmon, I'm an Xbox guy at heart. My friends list and the controller are all that's keeping me on side these days.
Halo has been a bummer this gen (IMO, 5's campaign was a mess, multi-player was good tho, MCC was a disaster), achievement score doesn't matter, avatars went nowhere (they had real potential to be something), the exclusives are drying up (Halo, Gears, Forza are they only 1st party games I can think of) and I'm wondering why I stick with Xbox.

I miss out on Destiny content, I can't play SFV, Shenmue 3 and FF7 remake are gonna be PS4 first or exclusive and worst of all, Bloodborne.

 

[Tntnico]

First they rejected the vision Insomniac had for Conker, and now that ... Microsoft, why ?

 

[Dabanton]

Which is why the article should have stated that if so, because people are all ready running with that quote about the cover as if it was an Xbox exec who said it.

Yeah I've seen it quoted multiple times. Who is that quote attributed to?

 

[BlizzKrut]

That was a very interesting article to read, feel sad that Lionhead was shut down.

I also don't know if I'd survive working on the same IP for 12 years if I was in the games industry (which I'd like to be on).

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

Grow up mate. This is an awful post.

Well I beg to differ. What has Microsoft given to its Xbox owners? How many IP's do they have? Fable, though some games aren't the best, is a popular franchise and I know people who bought an Xbox especially for Fable games.

But now? Halo, Gears and Forza is becoming something like Mario, Mario Kart & Zelda on the Nintendo side.

 

[SOR5]

Look at Sony, while they aren't perfect they gave Naughty Dog time to do Uncharted justice, let them do a risky (at the time) new IP with Last of Us and they've flourished. Compare that to Rare.. PDZ anyone? Banjo Nuts n Bolts? Fuck it, make Kinect games.

Kameo, Viva Pinata and SoT exist.

But yeah as a whole, the argument that Sony lets their first parties experiment a little is true.

What has Microsoft given to its Xbox owners? How many IP's do they have?

Are you a listwar plant?

 

[enzo_gt]

Sounds like they wanted to make a different game and call it Fable. Pretty easy to see why that was shut down.

 

[GinoFelino]

Sounds like they wanted to make a different game and call it Fable. Pretty easy to see why that was shut down.

You are aware they green-lit Fable Legends?