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[SeanNoonan]

Sounds like it could have been incredible :-/

True facts; every cancelled game is the best game ever. Quality comes from execution.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Uhhh, is this the same MS that published a Halo 5 where 75%+ of the game is spent playing from a black character's vantage point and women are heavily featured in the story and plot?

What the hell?

Well, it's talking about Fable 2's development (what, more than half a decade ago?), but yeah it doesn't quite scan for me either. You can't actually play *as* a black woman in the Fable games, there's no black female main character in the game (Whisper was in Fable 1), who were they going to stick on the cover?

True facts; every cancelled game is the best game ever. Quality comes from execution.

Yep. The whole "R-rated and gritty will make it awesome!" sentiments he expressed are enough to give me pause. Part of Fable's charm was its humor and its bright, cheeky style.

 

[LordRaptor]

Not strictly true. I think, from a purely business perspective, it doesn't matter if it's white males in charge or not - the main problem is that the people in charge think the audience are mostly white males and that said audience will only identify with other white males.

I think the underlying point - hence the Bill Hicks photo - is that marketers are fucking scum.

 

[A.D. Skinner]

Me, too as shitty as it may sound.

Could have alienated the small as it may be Fable player base, and the IP would probably turn off too many others. It sounds interesting to say the least, but I wouldn't have attached it to that franchise.

Exactly my thought. Rebrand and go, don't just switch it and add a cool little idea and keep going. The above sounds exactly like Fable anyway, so what if it was R.

Fable 1-2-3 are pretty much the same game.

 

[Sayers]

That sounded like a good pitch but if anything Lionhead is known for is: great pitches.

Yeah, can't say I blame MS for not falling for it again

 

[Ehker]

This confuses me because the lead in says it's about Fable 2, but Fable 2 released in 2008 and Princess and the Frog was a 2009 movie.

Uh, wow, yeah... they had a fight about the cover using an example from a movie that came out a year later? WTF?

 

[brawly]

And all of that with the incredible Fable one-button-combat system

Spoiler

/s

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

Official boycotting these fuck niggas. Fuck Microsoft.

 

[MrSpaM]

And yet Microsoft green lit an awful looking tower defence game and piled tens of millions into it's development only to can it two years later

That doesn't really make any sense

 

[YuriLowell]

This is what you get when bean counters run the world.

 

[The_Lump]

Uh, yes, it exactly was?

"And that was going to be Fable 4, and it would be darker and grittier"

Sounds like it to me.

I love Fable because of how light hearted and just silly it is, that sounds like a regression IMO.

"Darker and grittier" doesn't mean it will be "Dark and Gritty". It means it will be darker and grittier than Fable 1, 2 & 3.

The light hearted, humorous and silly nature you expect could still take place (and would actually flourish imo) in the sort of industial, Victorian London setting they are talking about.

 

[ironcreed]

I mean, that is just a hell of a concept. If only Microsoft had the balls.

 

[Figments]

I'm starting to dislike Microsoft again, why the hell is their management of first party studios still shitty? I thought Phil Spencer was supposed to be the "man" or whatever? What happened to him being cool? Halo has been mismanaged to death, Gears looks like well... Gears(although we won't get another halo 4 situation, we aren't getting anything revolutionary either. Something tells me that the collation took on Gears so they could avoid the chopping block of their new IP wasn't the next "halo"), Forza is well.... Forza. These guys really sucks when it comes to their managing their studios and marketing Xbox outside of the US. Ugh.

Why does Gears need a revolution? We got a nudge in that direction with Judgement and look at the community reception for that. Gears is fine as is. It doesn't need to be something it's not.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Even if Peter M. wasn't involved, Fable as a series has been known to under-deliver. Yeah, the pitch sounds great but getting that into a game is the hard part. Looking at what could have been is fun but in the end it was still just a pitch. Maybe MS didn't have faith that they could actually deliver on that proposal, MS were obviously not impressed by Fable Legends so what makes everyone think they could deliver that vision for Fable 4.

Maybe to a segment of fans, but the games have consistently reviewed and sold well.

Fable Legends isn't the game they wanted to make, it's the game that MS wanted them to make, and then fired them for it not living up to some nebulous standard as the flag bearer for Win10 and UE4.

 

[GHG]

Yeah, can't say I blame MS for not falling for it again

Falling for what exactly?

http://www.metacritic.com/company/lionhead-studios

When given time and resources they have delivered great games.

 

[Voost Kain]

I like how the people on here yelling at MS forgot that Lionhead, especially with Fable had mismanged money, half the ideas have been poor, and they almost never actually keep promises, which gives MS a bad rep.

 

[jem0208]

I'm starting to dislike Microsoft again, why the hell is their management of first party studios still shitty? I thought Phil Spencer was supposed to be the "man" or whatever? What happened to him being cool? Halo has been mismanaged to death, Gears looks like well... Gears(although we won't get another halo 4 situation, we aren't getting anything revolutionary either. Something tells me that the collation took on Gears so they could avoid the chopping block of their new IP wasn't the next "halo"), Forza is well.... Forza. These guys really sucks when it comes to their managing their studios and marketing Xbox outside of the US. Ugh.

Of course Gears looks like Gears and Forza looks like Forza, why is that even a remotely bad thing?

Also Halo 5 is fantastic.

"Darker and grittier" doesn't mean it will be "Dark and Gritty". It means it will be darker and grittier than Fable 1, 2 & 3.

The light hearted, humorous and silly nature you expect could still take place (and would actually flourish imo) in the sort of industial, Victorian London setting they are talking about.

I'm saying making the game darker and grittier would make it worse IMO.

 

[kurahador]

Urghhh...MS back to being daft.

Pitch it to Sony now!! Hopefully they still have some money after throwing it at Kojima.

 

[Lemondish]

Wow, this pitch sounds fantastic.

 

[dark10x]

I'm starting to dislike Microsoft again, why the hell is their management of first party studios still shitty? I thought Phil Spencer was supposed to be the "man" or whatever? What happened to him being cool? Halo has been mismanaged to death, Gears looks like well... Gears(although we won't get another halo 4 situation, we aren't getting anything revolutionary either. Something tells me that the collation took on Gears so they could avoid the chopping block of their new IP wasn't the next "halo"), Forza is well.... Forza. These guys really sucks when it comes to their managing their studios and marketing Xbox outside of the US. Ugh.

There's nothing wrong with Gears looking like Gears. What the hell else do you want? Changing it at this point would be a misstep. You don't just completely change a franchise to the point that it no longer resembles the originals that were popular.

They made enough big changes to Halo 5 (which I love still) and people went nuts.

 

[StMeph]

I don't understand how Fable came to be such a popular franchise. It's babby's first RPG, and Lionhead's MO has always been to over-promise and under-deliver.

 

[derFeef]

Maybe to remind it, that was 2008.
Not that the argument is any better if it were today, but MS and Xbox changed a bit since then. Especially in the last two years.

 

[cyber_ninja]

I'd be all over this, the concept sounds amazing.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I like how the people on here yelling at MS forgot that Lionhead, especially with Fable had mismanged money, half the ideas have been poor, and they almost never actually keep promises, which gives MS a bad rep.

Fable is only unpopular on message boards, sort of like CoD and Assassin's Creed. MS isn't in the business for prestige, or we'd be getting sequels to Lost Odyssey and Phantom Dust.

 

[dragonelite]

True facts; every cancelled game is the best game ever. Quality comes from execution.

This..

But it sounds like a fable i would love to play.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Maybe to a segment of fans, but the games have consistently reviewed and sold well.

Fable Legends isn't the game they wanted to make, it's the game that MS wanted them to make, and then fired them for it not living up to some nebulous standard as the flag bearer for Win10 and UE4.

I think it's more complex than that Nuff. The game they wanted to make was rejected by MS 2012 and Fable Legends was greenlit.

2013 hits, MS is floored by negative reaction to the Xbox One debut and DRM debacle, key management (Harrison, Mattrick, others "leave" or are tossed out)

MS 2016 seems now to be heading in a new direction entirely.

Too many changes in headwinds for a project like this.

 

[Voost Kain]

Official boycotting these fuck niggas. Fuck Microsoft.

If you're dumb enough to believe this story which is full of holes.

 

[Apathy]

A harsh reminder that the art we love is also a business. I hope most developers don't find themselves up against such demanding terms, as some of the best games ever made (ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and many others) were not particularly commercially viable, and were never deliberately designed to be.

Yeah but tripling it's money sounds good. Like not every game needs to make 500x what it cost. That's unrealistic (I'm obviously being hyperbolic to make my point).

The difference here is that other publishers have come around to the idea that sometimes a game won't make the money back and are fine with it of the other releases can cover it. Sony had known it for a long time. Ea recently spoke about it in regards to unravel (and probably knows it will happen with mirrors edge).

 

[PeskyToaster]

I think it would have turned out good. Peter Molyneux was known more for promising pretty insane, technically intense things. I see nothing like those promises in this pitch. I don't know how Microsoft saw more profitability in Fable Legends than this though besides the fact they were jumping on a successful bandwagon. A bandwagon that sees much more failure than success.

It seems like MS killed Lionhead in a whale hunt.

 

[BlackJimmy]

Maybe someone can get the rights to Fable and recruit the team for it? No? Ok...

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Urghhh...MS back to being daft.

Pitch it to Sony now!! Hopefully they still have some money after throwing it at Kojima.

One does not simply throw money at kojima and walk away with their wallets fine.

 

[Dark Cloud]

True facts; every cancelled game is the best game ever. Quality comes from execution.

Yep. It's just like a sports game. Players can sound great on paper, but that doesn't mean they can execute well and produce a great product on the floor/field.

 

[Voost Kain]

Fable is only unpopular on message boards, sort of like CoD and Assassin's Creed. MS isn't in the business for prestige, or we'd be getting sequels to Lost Odyssey and Phantom Dust.

Fable sales were on a downward decline after two. WHat are you talking about? Not only that, I'm not sure what your comment does to address the points I made.

 

[AstroNut325]

Kind of explains this:

 

[Quonny]

I don't understand how Fable came to be such a popular franchise. It's babby's first RPG, and Lionhead's MO has always been to over-promise and under-deliver.

Because they're fun.

 

[The_Lump]

I'm saying making the game darker and grittier would make it worse IMO.

Fair enough. I read "Dark & Gritty" in your post and that's just not the impression I got from the description of the world they were describing. imo anyway.

 

[leeh]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507717

I might be a bit wrong, I'm not exactly sure if he's just parroting Mattrick's ideologies or if he himself was the one pushing this ideology for the European studios that Microsoft owned.

What a shame. Gave them their own noose.

 

[Saty]

A pitch of a game that makes it sound great? Why i never! That being said, it would have probably been better to pitch it as a new IP targeting the XB1's launch\first year.

 

[makingmusic476]

True facts; every cancelled game is the best game ever. Quality comes from execution.

It wasn't cancelled. It wasn't even greenlit.

 

[The Jackdog]

2012 microsoft is a bad microsoft

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I'm starting to dislike Microsoft again, why the hell is their management of first party studios still shitty? I thought Phil Spencer was supposed to be the "man" or whatever? What happened to him being cool? Halo has been mismanaged to death, Gears looks like well... Gears(although we won't get another halo 4 situation, we aren't getting anything revolutionary either. Something tells me that the collation took on Gears so they could avoid the chopping block of their new IP wasn't the next "halo"), Forza is well.... Forza. These guys really sucks when it comes to their managing their studios and marketing Xbox outside of the US. Ugh.

The Coalition is trying to regain the old school MP Gears audience that felt the series was straying too far from it's roots. The first Gears established a generation of pro players that kept the series alive for years and Judgement tried to experiment too much with the formula and almost destroyed the series, even though I thought Judgement was alright. Keep in mind the story mode is suppose to do some innovative stuff that's not in the MP.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

2012 microsoft is a bad microsoft

Damn near killed their own console

 

[DannyDanger]

"They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's fucking it. Stop the arguing. I was like, fuck you! That was a huge fight.

"They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like fuck you, man. I hated it.

"I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"

wow thats pretty messed up

 

[Xav]

R-Rated Fable game?

Sounds awful.

 

[LordRaptor]

Fair enough. I read "Dark & Gritty" in your post and that's just not the impression I got from the description of the world they were describing. imo anyway.

"And that was going to be Fable 4, and it would be darker and grittier.

.

 

[hemo memo]

the funniest part is $75million on fable legends...thats some waste of cash.

the article is really good though, really highlights the ridiculousness in corporations "these games only gave us 3 times returns" we want more.

As Jim Sterling says about AAA publishers, they don't want money..they want ALL the money

When you invest 70, 80 million ofcource you want a big return, the problem is why we reached those numbers? It's ridiculous.

 

[Branniganz Love]

And yet Microsoft green lit an awful looking tower defence game and piled tens of millions into it's development only to can it two years later

That doesn't really make any sense

I think they are trying to avoid the sunk cost fallacy here, they already put 75 million(?) into the game and were obviously not impressed with the results they saw. So instead of having to continuously support a F2P game for years with new content/servers/micro-transactions (which they would be obligated to continue support for even if the game bombed) they decided to scrap the whole project before it launched. It sucks for fans of the series, it sucks especially for the people who worked at Lionhead and it sucks for MS since they invested a big chunk of money and got zero return. There is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[LordBaztion]

I am so angry right now.
Fuck you Phil

 

[The_Lump]

I think the underlying point - hence the Bill Hicks photo - is that marketers are fucking scum.

Yep and I agree. But I wasn't replying to 8bit's post with the Hicks photo; I was replying to:

Originally Posted by DedValve
Actually thats what happens when the majority of people in power are white males who only care about catering to other white males

I don't think it's down the people in charge being white, I think it's down to the people in charge assuming white males (ie the majority audience in their eyes) can only relate to other white males. Which is bullshit of course. Sure that may be the case for many, but it will only change if you challenge it. These people in question evidently didn't have the guts to challenge it.

 

[HighResTomato]

I am so angry right now.
Fuck you Phil

Which Phil?