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[Doytch]

Do you go and talk to them. My group is made up of Indian Chinese, Macedonian, polish and Venezuelan.

Just wondering: Why is the impetus on the white person to go and befriend the asian person? When a group of people don't speak English, hang out with mostly their own race, and join only clubs that start with "Chinese/Asian Association/Society of," you don't exactly feel welcome coming up to them.

I'm graduating UofT this year, and I kind of stopped hanging out with some friends because they were always hanging out with a club of Asian (fine, Viet, Korean and Chinese) people and I would've felt stupid crashing it.

 

[Zzoram]

Just wondering: Why is the impetus on the white person to go and befriend the asian person? When a group of people don't speak English, hang out with mostly their own race, and join only clubs that start with "Chinese/Asian Association/Society of," you don't exactly feel welcome coming up to them.

I'm graduating UofT this year, and I kind of stopped hanging out with some friends because they were always hanging out with a club of Asian (fine, Viet, Korean and Chinese) people and I would've felt stupid crashing it.

It goes both ways for immigrant asians. Their English is often weak and they are unlikely to be athletic so they feel just as intimidated to just go up to white jocks and mingle. Also imagine how hard it is for an immigrant to speak English in a club where you can barely hear each other anyways. Often times English native speakers avoid speaking to people with heavy accents because it's hard to listen to or they can't understand what's being said.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

This definitely occurred at my undergrad school. I think it was mostly Chinese and Korean students.

 

[Lamel]

Ha funny.

My group right now in high school consists of Taiwanese, Russian, Indian, Pakistani, Egyptian, Filipino/British, hispanic/black

So 1.5 white people, 1 black/hispanic, 1 asian, 2 south asian, 1 middle eastern, .5 pacific islander :lol I fall in the south asian category.


EDIT: It is also interesting to mention that we all go to an engineering high school.

 

[Zzoram]

I don't know why asians having mostly asian friends is considered so bad when a lot of white people have mostly white friends, and that goes for every ethnic group, often further down to nationality not just skin colour.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Regarding the foreign asians, an americanized asian friend once told me that they are cliquey because they fear they'll get made fun of for their bad english, or they can't understand rapid fire english conversations so they feel left out. This is why they also don't hang out with americanized asians.

 

[Lunchbox]

Also "Asians" is a pretty broad term. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Phillipino, Cambodians, they're all pretty culturally different and have insanely different languages that mean they can only speak to each other in English.

so....

US:
asian = east
indian = native
indian = indian from asia

british:
asian = indian
oriental = east
whitey = natives

canada:
asian = east
indian = indian from asia
native = native

 

[Unknown One]

I don't know why asians having mostly asian friends is considered so bad when a lot of white people have mostly white friends, and that goes for every ethnic group, often further down to nationality not just skin colour.

It's very similar in Prison it seems. Either that or I watch too many Prison shows. People have the natural tendency to be attracted to what is familiar to them.

 

[Zzoram]

so....

US:
asian = east
indian = native
indian = indian from asia

british:
asian = indian
oriental = east
whitey = natives

canada:
asian = east
indian = indian from asia
native = native/first nations/metis/inuit

Yes. Although as someone else mentioned i think the correct term in Canada is First Nations not native. Metis is for white-mixed first nations and Inuit are the ones who live in the territories up north near the arctic.

 

[TheSeks]

That article is pretty extremely racist, I feel.

"ZOMG THESE SCHOOLS HAVE A REPUTATION FOR STUDY/ACADEMICS AND NOT DRINKING."

That says more about the student/applicants than the school/races, I feel.

 

[Zzoram]

I want news sites and papers to report on this article and how Maclean's pulled it in less than a day. Why did they pull it? I want to hear discussion about the contents of the article from other news sources.

 

[crimzonflame]

What a poorly written article. As someone from Toronto and who went to university I can tell you that article did a poor job differentiating between Asian-Canadians and foreign exchange students. From my experience its the foreign exchange students that stick together and dont really mingle.

 

[jamesinclair]

I don't know why asians having mostly asian friends is considered so bad when a lot of white people have mostly white friends, and that goes for every ethnic group, often further down to nationality not just skin colour.

Clearly youve never been to a party with 150 asians and you're the only non-asian. Shit is awkward.

"White" parties seem to be more mixed. They throw in some latinos, the token black guy, and the 3 asian stoners.

 

[Zzoram]

Clearly youve never been to a party with 150 asians and you're the only non-asian. Shit is awkward.

"White" parties seem to be more mixed. They throw in some latinos, the token black guy, and the 3 asian stoners.

I live in a city that was like 95% white for most of my life. Every everything was 150 whites and an asian kid. I did fine, and only got minimally picked on at school. It helped that teachers had my back for being a good student :lol

I still have mostly white friends, but now that I am in Toronto I've made a few new asian friends. Mostly they appeal to me because they're good students who like nerdy stuff. My white friends would always just want to drink all the time and it got old fast. They're still mostly smart people, but definitely a few of them are the "go to university for liberal arts to party 24/7" types.

 

[firehawk12]

I want news sites and papers to report on this article and how Maclean's pulled it in less than a day. Why did they pull it? I want to hear discussion about the contents of the article from other news sources.

I'm assuming either someone complained or something was incorrect.

The article is pretty hilarious either way. UofT is practically in Chinatown after all - but there was no way the school was "Asian" if you looked at it as a whole. Most of the Asians segregated themselves within the sciences.

Ya probably, but even second and third generation Asians seem to trend more towards valuing education even if they mix in more clubbing.

Maybe, but it's still an important distinction to make - especially when you consider an industry that actively recruits foreign students because they can charge them more.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm assuming either someone complained or something was incorrect.

The article is pretty hilarious either way. UofT is practically in Chinatown after all - but there was no way the school was "Asian" if you looked at it as a whole. Most of the Asians segregated themselves within the sciences.



Maybe, but it's still an important distinction to make - especially when you consider an industry that actively recruits foreign students because they can charge them more.

Ya foreign students pay like triple tuition and are ineligible for the vast majority of scholarships. They're a no brainer to recruit, you get to pick the best of the best and brain drain another country, charge them way more money, and they produce a bunch of quality research while they're here.

Some foreign students do get partial or full ride scholarships though. My dad's youngest cousin (huge age gap of like 30 years) got a full ride scholarship to a Master's of Public Health at Tulane University in New Orleans in the US but only after 3 tries. He had top marks at his university, impressively good English, a good GRE, research work experience, volunteer experience, teaching experience, and a publication. After finishing his first 2 semesters, during the 3 weeks before starting his summer work placement, he went to a conference to give a presentation, won an award, and did a quick tour of Canada and visited my dad. That guy couldn't deserve to be on a full ride academic scholarship any more. To think that kids like him could be rejected to let in some binge drinking coaster just to keep some schools white enough disgusts me.

 

[TheSeks]

Okay, that's what I get for snap-replying to an article halfway through it. I agree with you, OP that it's more about "how do we get white kids to want to study."

That said:

To quell the influx of Jewish students, Ivy League schools abandoned their meritocratic admissions processes in favour of one that focused on the details of an applicant’s private life—questions about race, religion, even about the maiden name of an applicant’s mother. Schools also began looking at such intangibles as character, personality and leadership potential.

WTF is this shit. It's a good thing I have had an extremely dislike toward Ivy Leagues (mostly because of the "snooty" background behind them), to where I'm not really surprised if this happens.

I still say the admission/college choices of the student applying is more their choice than the schools. A school based/reported to be hardworking and more educated focused is going to get people that want to be there for that instead of partying/drinking 24/7. I don't think race has anything to do with it except with the way parents treat their kids. I know an Asian/White couple that has a child that is in Kindergarten right now. They had them learning ASL at the age of three and have them learning the violin (WTF is with people and the violin?) at the age of 3 I think.

They're both very liberal and very education minded. Race/"Being Asian" has nothing to do with valuing education and getting the child into the love of learning.

The thing is, you don't want to drill "valuing education" into the kids heads like some Asian parents do. The child should be able to mix play and education and find a nice balance that works for them.

Um... so, what I'm trying to say is that Asian parents need to lay off on their kids a bit.

As far as the "the races keep themselves to themselves" bit talk here, it's partially true. But that's due to a variety of issues: kids feel awkward and not sure they have anything in common with other races. Or there is language issues with foreign kids.The only way to break this is to teach kids to "be nice to each other" (I guess you could say), that there is differences among all of us, but there is a common ground among us as well.

But eh, I don't think the world is every going to crack the "we keep to ourselves" and stereotypes and blah blah blah easy. :/

As far as admissions, I don't know how to solve that other than the schools goals (focused on education, focused on a mix of education/socializing) and a balance of all kids to at least not get the school pegged as one or the other. Having secret quotas and "racial profiles" and shit is really skeezy. What happened to ones own merits?

 

[Dresden]

I'm sorry for doing well in school.

I'm also a terrible driver.

 

[Zzoram]

The irony about schools in the US descriminating against Asians and quota limiting them is that it's forcing them to work harder, get better grades, and round out their resumes with extracurriculars. Asians are fighting descrimination by just bettering themselves. I have always found it interesting how in North America there is still a lot of descrimination towards Asians (especially in media) but there is almost no protesting about it. Asians seem to just suck it up and try to overcome the descrimination. I wonder why that is, and I wonder if that's why it's more socially tolerant to descriminate against Asians, they don't protest it.

 

[Zaptruder]

Meritocracy is fine. it's great.

But considerations of merit need to be broadened to properly reflect desirable traits and attributes.

Asians will adapt to the new status quo; that's what they do. If it means they spend more time diversifying their skill sets, then that's what they'll do to succeed.

 

[Zzoram]

Meritocracy is fine. it's great.

But considerations of merit need to be broadened to properly reflect desirable traits and attributes.

Asians will adapt to the new status quo; that's what they do. If it means they spend more time diversifying their skill sets, then that's what they'll do to succeed.

And they are.

However, it's still wrong that admissions criteria changed basically to make it easier to justify descrimination and to keep the standard of education in America low enough for the typical American that refuses to rise to the occasion.

 

[TheSeks]

I dunno about discrimination against Asians (I haven't noticed it. ), but yeah: Schools should pick students based on their merits. If the admission/child is a 2.5GPA, and you're an "education focused school," that kid probably isn't a good pick unless they work their asses off to improve themselves.

"Affirmative Action" is nice in theory as it "blocks racism/racial choices," but then you get reverse racism/these colleges having secret quotas which just breaks the point of the law in the first place. :/

 

[Darkatomz]

Dear God, Asians don't party? Since when? Considering that most of us Asians are missing a certain enzyme in our liver, we actually get drunk faster than most. :lol

You sure it lets you get drunk faster? I know the missing enzyme causes the Glow, but I'm not so sure about being more susceptible to alcohol. And yes, I am Asian.


I thought the article was pretty interesting if you ask me, mostly because a lot of what was reflected doesn't really apply to me. I'm 100% Asian, but I'm pretty much as white as you can be. 90% of my friends are white, I speak better English than Chinese, don't play the violin/piano, etc. Although I do know and understand that Asians tend to stick together pretty tightly, but this could be said about other culture groups as well.

But I'm not sure that the story covers discrimination in the right light. They need to look at it from a different perspective of a different culture and see that it's not really that different.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I find it funny that the people interviewed in the article say that they're going to Queens and Western to get away from the Asian population. Really? I haven't been out of the post secondary system for more than 4 years, and from what I hear and see, it's not that far different. Depending on the faculty, it's just as populated with Asians.

Back when I was in Waterloo a few years ago, yes some of the segergation among the first generation immigration students, but there are others who actively go out and do other stuff too, so I really don't see this representation is exactly fair.

I, for one, started the gaming club with a bunch of people, and there's no way in he'll you can say that's an academic thing. Fine, a bit geeky and not exactly clubbing/parties, but not the "Don't talk to anyone outside my race" thing that the article suggests most Asians do.

 

[Zaptruder]

And they are.

However, it's still wrong that admissions criteria changed basically to make it easier to justify descrimination and to keep the standard of education in America low enough for the typical American that refuses to rise to the occasion.

That's one way to look at it.

And maybe that's the way it is. But the point holds firm; past a certain point of academic achievement, other factors and skills become more important in determining a persons success in later life. Those factors and abilities need to be considered and measured as well.

 

[Thagomizer]

My experience at my University is that everyone is really welcoming, except for the first/second generation Korean students. Introducing yourself to an already-established group is always pretty awkward for everyone involved, but most people at least try to make an effort. Every time I've tried to introduce myself to the group of Korean students, however, they will actively try to get me to leave. I once said "Hi" to be friendly when they were just hanging around talking in the common room, and they actually got up and moved to the other side of the room.

 

[Zzoram]

That's one way to look at it.

And maybe that's the way it is. But the point holds firm; past a certain point of academic achievement, other factors and skills become more important in determining a persons success in later life. Those factors and abilities need to be considered and measured as well.

I guess I'm just upset that nobody seems to care about raising the bar in education anymore. Everyone wants "good enough" not "better". Is it so bad that there are kids who actually want to know everything they're supposed to learn? Apparently, since the push has actually been towards lowering standards.

 

[Pterion]

My experience at my University is that everyone is really welcoming, except for the first/second generation Korean students. Introducing yourself to an already-established group is always pretty awkward for everyone involved, but most people at least try to make an effort. Every time I've tried to introduce myself to the group of Korean students, however, they will actively try to get me to leave. I once said "Hi" to be friendly when they were just hanging around talking in the common room, and they actually got up and moved to the other side of the room.

Ice cold. :lol

 

[Thagomizer]

Ice cold. :lol

Yeah. Even the other people in the room gave me a "wtf was that?" look.

 

[TransTrender]

They're definitely right that the groups don't mingle.

Tons of Chinese students here and they don't talk to anybody but people in their own group.

Other groups don't mingle.
Shock of the century to ignorant GAF.

 

[numble]

I guess I'm just upset that nobody seems to care about raising the bar in education anymore. Everyone wants "good enough" not "better". Is it so bad that there are kids who actually want to know everything they're supposed to learn? Apparently, since the push has actually been towards lowering standards.

Explain how standards are being lowered.

 

[Subitai]

Kids complaining they can't have enough fun...

Unbelievable.

I'd say things aren't "Asian" enough.


As far not mixing enough socially, that is certainly a problem. However, I think it is a separate issue from the real problem college students feeling entitled to enjoy themselves.

 

[gutter_trash]

this is sad because once you get onto the workforce... everyone has to get to work with other people that are not your own

I blame colleges for promoting stupid self-segregating clubs and political groups on campus.

colleges should help students step into the real world... not get into Dungeon & Dragon groups or Republicans who hate Climate Change groups and stuff

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Another factor that doesn't seemed to be mentioned: due to the location of the UoT campus, many Chinese students can just live at home in the suburbs, removing even more possibility to mingle in general.

 

[numble]

WTF is this shit. It's a good thing I have had an extremely dislike toward Ivy Leagues (mostly because of the "snooty" background behind them), to where I'm not really surprised if this happens.

If you read the article more carefully, they were talking about the 1900s-1950s, and that anti-Jewish sentiment in higher education (and America in general) is already pretty well documented. There are a couple of Jewish presidents of Ivy League universities nowadays.

 

[Dresden]

Yeah. Even the other people in the room gave me a "wtf was that?" look.

I'm a Korean and I'm not considered Korean-enough to be worth talking to, so don't feel too bad.

 

[Deku]

failure of multiculturalism.

The balkanization also extends to high schools. I graduated from a high school where all the Hong Kong people stuck together, the Persians, Filipinos and non-mainland Chinese.

 

[jtb]

I think this whole "Too Asian" thing is just blown completely out of proportion. I went to a University that people were telling me for months was going to be completely segregated (racially, social class, etc.) In reality, just about everyone was really friendly and though it was a very competitive atmosphere, it was never hostile. I'm just going to assume that somewhere along the line all the arrogant self-righteous pricks got weeded out in the college application process. Or something :lol

 

[BigJonsson]

I went to the University of Waterloo for Grad School

You see the Asians around campus during frosh week.........and then I really didn't see them again except inside the engineering and math buildings

And I know lots of people that refused to consider U of Waterloo because it as too asian


I have lots of asian friends though, they don't seem to care who they hang out with

The real issue should be racial segregation by choice at universities, school is where people of dfiferent backgrounds should be coming together, not putting up walls



Edit - I lived at the grad student/international student res and most of the parties had lots of exchange type students, but not Asian ones.....mostly Germans

 

[crimzonflame]

Something tells me that the brother and sister in the article wouldnt want to go to UofT even if it had Asians who party all the time.

 

[firehawk12]

Explain how standards are being lowered.

Anecdotally, I know that my department is accepting many more undergraduate students because they can increase their funding.

 

[Big-E]

I am white living all my life on the Eastside of Vancouver so I have only a handful of white friends. In Vancouver you kind of have to mingle between groups if you are white from the area. UBC is the same sort of deal, it is just a reflection of Vancouver itself. Didn't realize that the stat was 43% for Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. If you add Indian to that mix the total would likely climb to over 70 percent.

 

[Neki]

It's not really much different here in Alberta at the University of Alberta. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more Asians here than at the U of T. Asians completely dominate the Engineering and Science departments.

My Econ class at the U of A is composed of 80% asians, it's a scary thought to be honest. :lol

 

[BigJonsson]

Whoever wrote that article should also go to the Guvernment in Toronto..........that place is FILLED with Asians clubbing all night long

 

[firehawk12]

My Econ class at the U of A is composed of 80% asians, it's a scary thought to be honest. :lol

Yeah, but I bet the history/arts/english/humanities classes have 1% Asians. :lol

 

[hamchan]

Hooray for being Asian. I was in a good high school and now i'm a good Uni, both are Asian dominated. Fact is though everyone I've met has worked hard and deserves their place.

Here in Australia the current affair shows often run "news" reports with parents complaining about Asian parents sending their kids to coaching colleges and this is unfair. They consider the Asian kids to be stealing the spots at top schools. To them I say boo hoo, these kids work hard to get their spot.

 

[Salazar]

Yeah, but I bet the history/arts/english/humanities classes have 1% Asians. :lol

This is overwhelmingly true at my (Australian) university, as far as I can tell.

Hamchan, you know better than to watch that trash.

 

[numble]

Anecdotally, I know that my department is accepting many more undergraduate students because they can increase their funding.

This is a different issue from the implication that they are trying to "keep Asian kids out by lowering standards," exemplified in this quote:

To think that kids like him could be rejected to let in some binge drinking coaster just to keep some schools white enough disgusts me.

...which doesn't even make as much sense since he's talking about foreign students at public universities, which are often required by law to accept higher amounts of local students since the locals pay the taxes that fund the universities. Are they really rejecting qualified Asians and letting in "binge drinking coasters" to this school's Master's Program in Public Health so that they can keep their school "white enough"?

 

[PflargBlarg]

From my experience the article seems partly right...I'm white and a minority in my city (woo Richmond), so obviously most of my friends from the area are asian. I think the disparity in university population has a lot to do with the parents. Many many asian parents will pressure their kids into going into the 'prestige' jobs like doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. while more white parents are ok with letting their kids do whatever in school.
My mom is an office administrator/admissions officer for a private elementary school and so deals with a ton of asian parents. This school is consistently ranked in the top 3 in the city. She's dealt with attempted bribes, falsifying admissions information, etc. They will do all kinds of crazy shit to get their kids in there.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. In any case, the article is mostly wrong for this area. Of course a lot of asian kids only hang out with other asian kids, but I'd put that down to the massive immigrant population. It's like 60% 1st generation immigrants or something.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's pretty obvious why: Confucius stressed pleasing one's elders, as well as the merits of examination systems to determine placement in the government. That lead to a culture where studying hard to be successful was everything. The Imperial Chinese dynasties promoted Confucian ideas heavily over the centuries (the Emperor being the ultimate elder to whom one must defer), and these ideas were exported to most of the countries of Asia, which were once Chinese tributaries: Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc. These ideas formed the core of Asian thinking, and while few would consciously think of themselves as "Confucian" anymore, it nonetheless is embedded in the thinking of their cultures. (Christian-based thinking is the counterpart in Western thought, with even atheists thinking in concepts that could only be borne of monotheist theology: natural human rights, etc.)

But personally I think non-Asians should adopt the mantra: if you can't beat em, join em. Personally my parents are the ultimate care-nothing liberal white parents. It was through the ideas of my Asian friends that I realized that maybe studying hard matters. Don't whine: catch up to them. They don't dominate the school because they're Asian, they dominate because they study fucking hard.

And I don't take seriously that "Asians only stick to their own kind" stuff. There is a grain of truth to it.. but few of them are actually exclusionary... they're just in their comfort zone of people who come from a similar background. If you engage them in communication, as I have, you will be welcomed.