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[GremlinInTheMachine]

Your second sentence is quite troubling. In the preceding one you simply state that the animation is terrible as if it were an all encomposing effect no matter what type of animation is taking place. Then you go and contradict yourself by saying that Baldur moves naturally one minute (which I assume is a good thing) and like shit the next. Even as you state it here the animation is not terrible in its totality but only in certain instances while in others Baldur is moving natural. Thus your main point (the animation as a whole is terrible) is directly undermined by your attempt to explain why this is so. Doesn't sound like a very solid critique IMO.

The conclusion that the animtion is terrible is a summary judgment obviously. Where did I say every aspect of the animation is terrible? You’re arguing against a silly straw man.

And note that you haven’t challenged any of my examples of bad animation. I don’t think anyone has.

The rest of the paragraph is then blatant hyperbole utilizing moronic metaphor's to 'insult' the game's animation as best you can (when logic fails you, just troll!).

I used the analogy of the pin and the stuffed animal for the sake of brevity. If you’d like to explain in technical terms why that animation is terrible, I’ll be more than happy to do so.

Then you complain about the art direction and only use a few words to elaborate why this is such and again you fail to really post a thoughtful critique. This could have been one but you consciously took the easy way out by simply stating a conclusion with no supporting sentences to back up your venomous judgment.

Venomous? Do you really take all of this that seriously? It’s garish and tacky because it’s combining a martial style of dress with lame and jewel colored accents. It would be akin to the US Marines studding their uniforms with sequins. Really the best example is the Flash Gordon movie from 1980. That movie combines a martial style of dress with disco fashion including the use of gold lame. The difference is that movie is intended to be campy. If Too Human was intended to be campy, or even satirical, I’d likely appreciate the humor. But it isn’t. Silicon Knights is playing it completely straight. They really do think a black vinyl combat suit with gold lame accents is fierce looking. It’s comically bad taste.

And it’s busy because it looks like one of those Nike shoes with lines crisscrossing everywhere to make it look aesthetically complex. But it doesn’t look complex; it looks like a mess with no coherent sense of composition. With aestetics, less is often more.

Further on you claim that the combat is Dynasty Warrirors is sped up. Only this time, in addition to failing to constructively critique it, there is a severe lack discernable tone, that is there is no sense, even if TH plays like DW, whether this is a good or bad thing.

Dynasty Warriors is a button masher where you fight through waves of catatonic enemies. It requires little skill, which makes it highly repetitious and monotonous. Too Human so far looks to be in the same vain except instead of mashing the X Button you’re mashing the Right Stick. It’s important to remember that including a large selection of weapons doesn’t necessarily deepen the combat system. If those weapons play largely similar one another, the differences between them become cosmetic. Too Human could turn out to be deep, but if it is, the trailers don’t do it any justice.

And here’s another key point. I haven’t rendered my final judgment on the game. I’m only critiquing what they show me. And I call it a trainwreck because there is so much to fix but it’s quickly approaching its release window. As such, it’s highly unlikely much will be fixed, and it’s also highly likely that they don’t think many things need to fixed that should be otherwise they would've fixed them by now. That latter reason is why I also call them incompetent.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

And before the next bout of temper tantrums commence, let the record show that Lykathea stated my initial critique wasn't sufficiently detailed and I'm simply providing him with such a critique now.

That said gentlemen, let the wailing begin.

 

[ith3r]

anamations sux dyack is a hack mythology is wacked up fadawdfjhskjlkalsla

.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

finally put the ignore list function to good use.

 

[HocusPocus]

Game looks fun to me. I'll definitely give it a shot. Glad I don't have the time to post a novel about what I don't like about it. If I didn't like it, I'd find a game thread on something I did like.

 

[MCD]

And before the next bout of temper tantrums commence, let the record show that Lykathea stated my initial critique wasn't sufficiently detailed and I'm simply providing him with such a critique now.

That said gentlemen, let the wailing begin.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

If I didn't like it, I'd find a game thread on something I did like.

What! Your logic and rational is clearly not suited for this thread.

 

[Ark-AMN]

Game looks fun to me. I'll definitely give it a shot. Glad I don't have the time to post a novel about what I don't like about it. If I didn't like it, I'd find a game thread on something I did like.

Indeed, it's always funny that this game seems to attract more of these types of people than any other I've seen. There's a highly determined force out there that goes on and on trying to convice people why they should not like this game or why they're dumb for liking it.

 

[SPEA]

QFMFT.

The Necromancer in D2 is the greatest character class ever made by man. For me it wasn't the summoning, it was all about the corpse explosion. So much cool strategy and bad-assery in that character, plus you didn't have to wear out you mouse clicking all the time like the other characters.

Hopefully there is something similar in TH, but it doesn't look like it, though there might be some summoning. Can't win em all.

Denis did say that classes available for DLC are planned after release. So there is a possibility.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Indeed, it's always funny that this game seems to attract more of these types of people than any other I've seen. There's a highly determined force out there that goes on and on trying to convice people why they should not like this game or why they're dumb for liking it.

You know what's funny? I may be wrong but that grimlin guy is using a P.N. 03 avatar, vanessa is the main character.

And that game was utter shit.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Game looks fun to me. I'll definitely give it a shot. Glad I don't have the time to post a novel about what I don't like about it. If I didn't like it, I'd find a game thread on something I did like.

1. My per day post count is roughly half of yours.

2. 400 words constitutes a novel? Comicbook-only reader?

3. I like debating. I think it's useful and fun.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Indeed, it's always funny that this game seems to attract more of these types of people than any other I've seen. There's a highly determined force out there that goes on and on trying to convice people why they should not like this game or why they're dumb for liking it.

I've simply defended my opinions and motives when challenged. I realize you don't want me to do that because you don't like my opinion, and therefore you're trying to portray it as if I'm proselytizing, but that just makes you look incapable of rationally defending the game and petty.

 

[Lykathea]

I didn't say that there was an average shot length of 10 seconds, just that there are few shots longer than that. Is a 10 second average shot length "very high"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_take

Films known for "long takes" have an average shot length of 30 seconds or more, in this Wikipedia entry. The shots in TH may be slightly longer than a spastic Hong Kong action movie, but you would be hard-pressed to find one take that is 30 seconds (much less any number of longer takes that would contribute to a high average).

80 cuts in 9 minutes pans out to 1 cut every 6.75 seconds (the average jacks up even further if you disregard the 1 legitimate long take in the sea of quick cuts). I guess we'll see how the final version pans out, but as-is it really doesn't look or feel any different than what's already out there. Maybe running the numbers would yield a slightly higher ASL, but it's nothing that really seems to stick out.

I don't understand why you are contesting this? My point all along has been that TH utilizes longer takes than is the norm (by norm I mean contemporary Hollywood), not that it rarely cuts like Tati's Playtime or other such masterpieces that are comprised nigh exclusively of extremely long takes. There are numerous shots that one can pull out of the footage that we have seen thus far that stand out as long shots and since SK actively acknowledges the Bazinian influence I don't see what there is to argue about. The aesthetic heritage of Bazin is clearly present and that is all there is to it. It may not be a radical implementation of many of Bazin's naive realist theories but the influence is actively there.

Regarding ASL, I don't see the point contesting this as ASL really tells us nothing about the types of shots utilized. My assumption about a 10 second ASL was merely a guesstimation to illustrate the fact that TH makes use of far less editing, close-ups and short shots than the 36th Chamber of Shaolin. Now I realize it is not a HW film, but it is a dated HK film in which its aesthetic has largely been adopted by Hollywood as the decades have rolled on. Moreover, the scene in particular from that film is not an action scene which is why I tried to emphasize it as a comparative example that would hopefully bring to light (to you at least, others seem to be grasping and understanding what I am saying)the relatively longer shot lengths utilized by SK. That is all, I agree it is not a radical use of the realist aesthetic but in fairness I never argued that it was; just that it was noticeably atypical from the cut happy Hollywood, though that influence is clearly embodied in TH as well.

 

[stotch]

Why aren't more people dissing Diablo 2 in this thread? Just go for it ...

 

[Bildi]

Haha, I love Hannar's summation of everything thus far:

Heh, that's pretty much it.

The slide thing is fine when everything's moving fast. It's when it slows down that it looks a bit odd. In one of the movies I thought I saw Baldur do a sort of long jump rather than slide and it looked good. But I suspect it was something different.

I thought I read somewhere that only some classes did the sliding thing but I don't really remember.

Denis did say that classes available for DLC are planned after release. So there is a possibility.

That'd be great.

 

[Atomspike]

HAHAHA this is still going , damn Gremlin damn!

I agree with every point you have made , i have never seen such veneration and worshiping of mediocrity here in Gaf , but man! just give it a rest . all this rambling is certainly not worth the ban hammer, just ask me , i have made the same criticism in an earlier Too Human thread then BAM! banned for two weeks , you know sometimes , it is just right to capitulate in the face of fascism .

 

[Lykathea]

I'll attempt to keep this brief for the sake of the quality of this thread which has been surprisingly good.

The conclusion that the animtion is terrible is a summary judgment obviously. Where did I say every aspect of the animation is terrible? You’re arguing against a silly straw man.

And note that you haven’t challenged any of my examples of bad animation. I don’t think anyone has.

The fact that you did not clearly indicate that a sentence like "the animation is worthless" (not your exact words I know) only applied to some of the footage we have seen is not the reader's fault, the onus for clarity is fundamentally on the writer. Thus I interpreted your first post as best I could with the (lack of) tools you gave me.

Regarding the animation in TH itself here is my opinion: the combat animation is good (not great, but better than par) with all the major flaws of it stemming from the still awkward looking slide maneuver. If SK were to improve the animation preceding and following the slide tactic it would go a long way to allowing the animation fetishists to be more content with the game. That being said, the animation in the real-time cutscenes is superb, especially the facial animations. I can see why Shane (from 1up) argued that the facial animation of the characters in TH has only be bested by the likes of Heavenly Sword.

I used the analogy of the pin and the stuffed animal for the sake of brevity. If you’d like to explain in technical terms why that animation is terrible, I’ll be more than happy to do so.

Again the onus is on you to explain what you mean as a writer and a holder of a specific opinion. Now I don't want any exhaustive reasons why you think its garbage but I also don't want two word metaphors clearly designed to stir the proverbial shit. If you could find some middle ground and clarify this point I would welcome it.

Venomous? Do you really take all of this that seriously? It’s garish and tacky because it’s combining a martial style of dress with lame and jewel colored accents. It would be akin to the US Marines studding their uniforms with sequins. Really the best example is the Flash Gordon movie from 1980. That movie combines a martial style of dress with disco fashion including the use of gold lame. The difference is that movie is intended to be campy. If Too Human was intended to be campy, or even satirical, I’d likely appreciate the humor. But it isn’t. Silicon Knights is playing it completely straight. They really do think a black vinyl combat suit with gold lame accents is fierce looking. It’s comically bad taste.

And it’s busy because it looks like one of those Nike shoes with lines crisscrossing everywhere to make it look aesthetically complex. But it doesn’t look complex; it looks like a mess with no coherent sense of composition. With aestetics, less is often more.

Thank you for clarifying your perspective beyond trolling hyperbole. I still disagree with you, but at least now others can understand where you are coming from without you coming off like a troll.

Dynasty Warriors is a button masher where you fight through waves of catatonic enemies. It requires little skill, which makes it highly repetitious and monotonous. Too Human so far looks to be in the same vain except instead of mashing the X Button you’re mashing the Right Stick. It’s important to remember that including a large selection of weapons doesn’t necessarily deepen the combat system. If those weapons play largely similar one another, the differences between them become cosmetic. Too Human could turn out to be deep, but if it is, the trailers don’t do it any justice.

Impressions from 1up back in October contradict your assumption here of depthless combat. Specifically in the video preview at that time they stated that different weapons have different 'feels'. But again, thank you for clarifying.

And here’s another key point. I haven’t rendered my final judgment on the game. I’m only critiquing what they show me. And I call it a trainwreck because there is so much to fix but it’s quickly approaching its release window. As such, it’s highly unlikely much will be fixed, and it’s also highly likely that they don’t think many things need to fixed that should be otherwise they would've fixed them by now. That latter reason is why I also call them incompetent.

Again thanks for clarifying but this all could have been avoided if you choose not to write a post that was full of flame bait (i.e. 'trainwreck'). The fact remains that the intention behind your initial post was to stir the shit, and NOT to critique the game. However, now it finally seems you have shifted to the later for which I appreciate the effort though I may still disagree with the majority of your points.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

HAHAHA this is still going , damn Gremlin damn!

I agree with every point you have made , i have never seen such veneration and worshiping of mediocrity here in Gaf , but man! just give it a rest . all this rambling is certainly not worth the ban hammer, just ask me , i have made the same criticism in an earlier Too Human thread then BAM! banned for two weeks , you know sometimes , it is just right to capitulate in the face of fascism .

:lol Why are you guys so determined to try and convince people the game looks like crap?

Haven't you realized that no matter what you say or do you aren't going to change the opinions of people that like what they see and are anticipating the game? If you guys are so displeased with what you are looking then I humbly ask what are you guys still doing in this thread?

Wouldn't it make more sense to go comment in threads for games you guys actually give a damn about and stop trying to drum up trouble in a thread for a game you seem to care nothing about? Where is the sense in continuing to push your agenda? If you feel we are worshiping mediocrity then isn't that out our business? Why exactly do you care so much about what we like? Will the fact that people like myself intend to pick up this game day one make your day less pleasant?

If you think the game is mediocre and looks like crap then please move on. Otherwise I'm not sure what your continued presence in this thread accomplishes.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Lmao at this thread, kinda sad.

 

[funkmasterb]

Indeed, it's always funny that this game seems to attract more of these types of people than any other I've seen. There's a highly determined force out there that goes on and on trying to convice people why they should not like this game or why they're dumb for liking it.

It's also funny it tends to attract the opposite. A highly determined force our there that goes on and on about the biased nature of anyone who critiques the game as part of some sort of 'team'. LOL.

 

[sprsk]

Ugh.