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[Vinci]

The revenue generated by the IOS market is laughably and pathetically smaller than that of the DS. I remember during the unveiling of the Ipad2 Steve Jobs pointed that they have been able to pay out $2 billion to devs in like 3+ years

So there's an abundance of devices, an abundance of software, and not a massive amount of revenue is being generated by it. This doesn't strike me as a developer-friendly market.

EDIT: Is it possible that there's not a huge amount of revenue because most people playing games on their iOS devices see them as somewhat similar to Bejeweled? I mean, that game was on all sorts of phones historically, so perhaps that feeds their attitudes towards these new titles and their hesitance to invest seriously in them.

 

[Gamecocks625]

I doubt many people want to play handheld games on their phone or iPod.. I know I don't.

2006 is a pretty cool place to live

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I doubt many people want to play handheld games on their phone or iPod.. I know I don't.

It's about the convenience. For many, an iPhone/Android/iTouch is "good enough" for them to game on. They aren't "serious" about portable gaming and likely wouldn't have purchased a DS/PSP anyway, so why not drop a dollar or two on a few games.

With such low prices on the app store, there's little risk. But it also has its downside. I've seen users get downright FERAL when a game costs five friggin dollars.

I remember when NBA Jam launched on the iPhone. Great game. Controls were actually well laid out and responsive. And yet all I read in the comments section were:

"Five bucks? And with no online play...NOT worth the money"

"5$?!?! Pass!"

"ZOMG 5 dollars? I'll wait for 99c sale, lulz"

At the end of the day production values for many iphone games are limited due to the extremely low price. It's a blessing and a curse. Personally, I have the income for higher quality games...and as an owner of an iphone for the past three years....I can't wait for the 3DS price drop. I'll be buying one that day and enjoying it. Not to mention the entire DS library which I never played....I'm going to LOVE my 3 & 1/2 hour commute every day!

 

[Aaron]

That's only because EA reduces their games to $1 every other month. Anyone who buys an EA game at full price is an idiot, and EA has no one but themselves to blame for any loss of revenue that practice causes.

 

[Tobor]

And how much revenue has been generated via app purchases?

EDIT: I'm trying to determine how much revenue is being generated by the iOS market and how much has been generated in the DS market. If the revenue produced by the iOS market is smaller than the DS market's, or just comparable, then I don't see any reason to fully abandon dedicated portable machines. At least it wouldn't be for handheld developers.

Apple has paid out 2.5 billion to developers at last reporting. That doesn't include the 30% they keep, or the revenue from their own apps, but those aren't games anyway.

That's less than traditional handheld revenue, obviously, but at less cost, and less risk. If prices can support a rise over time, then costs can go up with them.

The question to ask is, are consumers satisfied with the results of decreased development costs, considering they pay far less for the content?

 

[Vinci]

Apple has paid out 2.5 billion to developers at last reporting. That doesn't include the 30% they keep, or the revenue from their own apps, but those aren't games anyway.

Thank you for the further clarification.

That's less than traditional handheld revenue, obviously, but at less cost, and less risk. If prices can support a rise over time, then costs can go up with them.

Historically, has the price of apps on the iPhone gone up or down for this category of products?

The question to ask is, are consumers satisfied with the results of decreased development costs, considering they pay far less for the content?

It's more than possible that they're satisfied with what's already there, which also brings up the issue whether they have any interest in a change to the status quo.

 

[magash]

So there's an abundance of devices, an abundance of software, and not a massive amount of revenue is being generated by it. This doesn't strike me as a developer-friendly market.

EDIT: Is it possible that there's not a huge amount of revenue because most people playing games on their iOS devices see them as somewhat similar to Bejeweled? I mean, that game was on all sorts of phones historically, so perhaps that feeds their attitudes towards these new titles and their hesitance to invest seriously in them.

Of course it isn't developer friendly. It is an OVERSUPPLY situation. Anyone that has a basic understanding of economics knows what I am talking about.

 

[Takao]

2006 is a pretty cool place to live

I saw a PES 2012 trailer running on Xperia Play, and I thought of you, lol.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Well, the bottom line is that until the current "99 cent mobile game" bubble bursts, companies are going to be moving where the profit is.

The real question is, will companies start lower the price on "AAA" titles, or simply stop bothering making any.

There are a lot of companies right now coasting off of the fact that there are a lot of people who will practically pay $1 just for the satisfaction of knowing they can make something happen when they press on their phone.

 

[Ulairi]

Apple has paid out 2.5 billion to developers at last reporting. That doesn't include the 30% they keep, or the revenue from their own apps, but those aren't games anyway.

That's less than traditional handheld revenue, obviously, but at less cost, and less risk. If prices can support a rise over time, then costs can go up with them.

The question to ask is, are consumers satisfied with the results of decreased development costs, considering they pay far less for the content?

And how much comes from games? And this is the future? I think not.

 

[bigtroyjon]

So there's an abundance of devices, an abundance of software, and not a massive amount of revenue is being generated by it. This doesn't strike me as a developer-friendly market.

EDIT: Is it possible that there's not a huge amount of revenue because most people playing games on their iOS devices see them as somewhat similar to Bejeweled? I mean, that game was on all sorts of phones historically, so perhaps that feeds their attitudes towards these new titles and their hesitance to invest seriously in them.

In 2010 software revenue on dedicated handhelds was twice mobile gaming software. It's not some huge gap and that gap will shrink again this year.

Thread from earlier in the year.

 

[magash]

And how much comes from games? And this is the future? I think not.

That is the big question isn't it? We have so called game experts, analysts, journalist talk about the future of mobile gaming but what I don't see is people backing up their claims with cold hard facts.

Where is the so called money in the IOS sector?

 

[Graphics Horse]

they will be smaller games because I don't believe bigger budgets are sustainable in the mobile game market.

Maybe we should ask when bigger budgets were ever sustainable in the handheld market? I don't think it was in the days of the Game Boy or Game Boy advance. Nintendo and Sony published games will always be around as long as the platforms are, but how many 3rd parties are interested in making big budget handheld games? It seemed very risky last generation, unless you already had a very well established IP.

 

[Ulairi]

Well, the bottom line is that until the current "99 cent mobile game" bubble bursts, companies are going to be moving where the profit is.

The real question is, will companies start lower the price on "AAA" titles, or simply stop bothering making any.

There are a lot of companies right now coasting off of the fact that there are a lot of people who practically pay $1 just for the satisfaction of knowing they can make something happen when they press on their phone.

EA, Square, Nintendo, Ubi Soft, etc etc cannot sustain operations on iOS at all.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

That's only because EA reduces their games to $1 every other month. Anyone who buys an EA game at full price is an idiot, and EA has no one but themselves to blame for any loss of revenue that practice causes.

Damn near every game on the app store drops it's price soon after it launches. Some various holiday sale. Memorial day sale, Christmas sale, Independence day sale, thanksgiving sale, new years sale...etc

It's hardly just EA. Every company does it on the app store. And that's my point...so many gamers want 40 dollar production value for 99c. In reality we get Angry Birds. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

But for my tastes and plenty other gamers....we want more and are willing to pay more.

People act like it's one or the other. Like in order for the 3DS to be successful, iPhone gaming must die. Or vice versa. This isn't highlander....there doesn't have to be "only one". Smartphones have touched into an entirely new userbase that otherwise would never game on a portable device. Just like the wii tapped into a new userbase w the wiimote.

There's room for both. Both systems cater to vastly different markets.

 

[Tobor]

Thank you for the further clarification.



Historically, has the price of apps on the iPhone gone up or down for this category of products?



It's more than possible that they're satisfied with what's already there, which also brings up the issue whether they have any interest in a change to the status quo.

I forgot to add, that doesn't include ad revenue either.

Prices can't go any lower, obviously, so the average price over time will either stay where it is, or rise. I think as the hardware gets better, and the big developers increase their investment, the prices will rise, at least from those big developers.

EA for example stated their fastest growing platform is the iPad. That should generate increased investment in the platform on their part.

 

[Ulairi]

That is the big question isn't it? We have so called game experts, analysts, journalist talk about the future of mobile gaming but what I don't see is people backing up their claims with cold hard facts.

Where is the so called money in the IOS sector?

There is a narrative and when that is repeated over and over it becomes perceived fact. It's like the people who believe in the JFK conspiracy or little green men, it's all based on a narrative. Analysts are wrong more often than they are right but no one says to some analysts "you were wrong x, y, and z times why should we take your note as right now?"

 

[Vinci]

I forgot to add, that doesn't include ad revenue either.

Prices can't go any lower, obviously, so the average price over time will either stay where it is, or rise. I think as the hardware gets better, and the big developers increase their investment, the prices will rise, at least from those big developers.

Even while the releases of apps remains frantic? I'm not sure about that. It's quite possible oversupply is in effect, as magash said and I suggested, in which case the price should either drop (which as you said, it can't) or become almost entirely ad-based. In either case, I don't see huge publishers putting out much different content from what already exists on the market.

EA for example stated their fastest growing platform is the iPad. That should generate increased investment in the platform on their part.

Define 'fastest growing platform.' What was EA referring to?

 

[Minsc]

Historically, has the price of apps on the iPhone gone up or down for this category of products?

Prices can't go any lower, obviously, so the average price over time will either stay where it is, or rise.

That's what I thought too, but:

F2P seems to be causing prices to go lower to compete, I'm not sure. But I guess they really don't have too much room to get lower, you're right.

It is amusing when you have SE releasing games on iOS for 60-90% more than on handhelds though (with FFT, $16 iOS vs $10 PSN/UMD).

 

[magash]

There is a narrative and when that is repeated over and over it becomes perceived fact. It's like the people who believe in the JFK conspiracy or little green men, it's all based on a narrative. Analysts are wrong more often than they are right but no one says to some analysts "you were wrong x, y, and z times why should we take your note as right now?"

If this industry crashes we all know who to blame.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

why not just get the Xperia Play? that's what I got

Depends on the situation, doesn't it? I was just at Comic Con for work. Took the train from Los Angeles to San Diego wishing all the while that I could play Batman Arkham Asylum through OnLive and a controller. The iPad slides comfortably in my laptop bag, and fits comfortably on my lap or tray table for ease of gaming. When i want to do more serious net surfing, music, movies, or light word processing, the tablet and touch screen is perfect. In that sense, the multipurpose of that tablet trumps having to bring another portable device.

However, not to sound like an apple tool, I can easily see the scenario going another way:

I now own a laptop. I initially purchased the iPad to avoid having an expensive laptop. Now, the iPad seems redundant. While i LOVE many of the gaming experiences that I enjoy on the device, the possibility of getting something like PSP Vita with VERY high-end gaming, the ability to do basic net browsing and utilitarian functions like email and movies, makes this a REVERSE iPAD situation at an affordable price. The only stalling point, i.e., the pricing of games and the delivery infrastructure, is the only thing stopping me giving the iPad to my wife and using the laptop/Vita combo in the future.

My earlier argument was NEVER death of handhelds. Rather, it was VALIDATION of the iDevice/Android as a legitimate gaming platform for real gamers. I've always advocated for the traditional platform holders to rethink their approach to pricing, development, and delivery. I'm the biggest cheerleader for tiers in new gaming prices, i.e., 60.00 for AAA games, 40 bucks for mid games, new at retail.

Just being clear.

 

[Aaron]

EA, Square, Nintendo, Ubi Soft, etc etc cannot sustain operations on iOS at all.

They can't sustain on dedicated handhelds either. What's your point?

Damn near every game on the app store drops it's price soon after it launches. Some various holiday sale. Memorial day sale, Christmas sale, Independence day sale, thanksgiving sale, new years sale...etc

It's hardly just EA. Every company does it on the app store.

Not all of them, but a lot do. Final Fantasy III will probably drop a bit from $17 when FFT comes out, but it's not going down to a dollar. I think Square has only done that with their old mobile ports so far. Though I think that's the nature of the ios market as it is right not, but not how it'll necessarily be in the future. Both the devs and Apple can easily change that.

That doesn't mean they're going to port Dragon Quest IX to it either. But maybe they will in a year. Hard to tell.

 

[Pureauthor]

They can't sustain on dedicated handhelds either. What's your point?

Eh, SE sure as heck can, given that for the current generation 90% of their games were on handhelds.

Edit: Also, Nintendo definitely can sustain themselves on handhelds alone too. What on earth are you talking about.

 

[Vinci]

They can't sustain on dedicated handhelds either. What's your point?

What leads you to suggest this?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

http://www.androidcentral.com/using-ps3-controller-motorola-xoom

boom

Neat. My PSP Go does that too.

Except I don't need to do it because it has ACTUAL BUTTONS

But you can play it on Android
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-a1ygZVZGs

Because that's certainly legal.

 

[Tobor]

Even while the releases of apps remains frantic? I'm not sure about that. It's quite possible oversupply is in effect, as magash said and I suggested, in which case the price should either drop (which as you said, it can't) or become almost entirely ad-based. In either case, I don't see huge publishers putting out much different content from what already exists on the market.



Define 'fastest growing platform.' What was EA referring to?

Consoles used to be 80% of the industry as recently as 2000. Consoles today are 40% of the game industry, so what do we really have? We have a new hardware platform and we're putting out software every 90 days. Our fastest growing platform is the iPad right now and that didn't exist 18 months ago.

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/27/ea-our-fastest-growing-platform-is-the-ipad/

@Minsc, great point about freemium.

 

[Vinci]

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/27/ea-our-fastest-growing-platform-is-the-ipad/

@Minsc, great point about freemium.

He's talking about the full gaming market, but in what respect? Revenue? Titles? Profit? I don't understand what he's referring to specifically.

 

[Tobor]

He's talking about the full gaming market, but in what respect? Revenue? Titles? Profit? I don't understand what he's referring to specifically.

Given the 80% - 40% console numbers he's talking about, I assume he's talking about revenue.

 

[magash]

He's talking about the full gaming market, but in what respect? Revenue? Titles? Profit? I don't understand what he's referring to specifically.

Yeah it isn't that clear but if i was to guess i think it will be the total number of hardware sold. The IOS devices have sold something like 200 million if i am not mistaken.

 

[Vinci]

Given the 80% - 40% console numbers he's talking about, I assume he's talking about revenue.

I highly doubt it's revenue. Consoles still pull a huge amount of it. They couldn't possibly have dropped that far given the amount of revenue from iOS.

Yeah it isn't that clear but if i was to guess i think it will be the total number of hardware sold. The IOS devices have sold something like 200 million if i am not mistaken.

This is more likely. But that's a ridiculously stupid metric to use for determining software strategy.

 

[magash]

This is more likely. But that's a ridiculously stupid metric to use for determining software strategy.

Never underestimate the sheer stupidity and incompetence of the retards running the various video gaming companies.

 

[Tobor]

I highly doubt it's revenue. Consoles still pull a huge amount of it. They couldn't possibly have dropped that far given the amount of revenue from iOS.



This is more likely. But that's a ridiculously stupid metric to use for determining software strategy.

I wasn't inferring that the iPad is the cause of the 40% drop. That's not even possible.

He's talking about Facebook, mobile, MMO's, the whole enchilada. Combine all that and you could see the revenue drop he's referring to.

EDIT: revenue drop isn't the right way to phrase it, more like a drop in revenue share, since the industry overall grew over the last 10 years.

 

[Rubicon]

Are you speaking exclusively from a handheld perspective?

Sort of yes and no. I don't play many console games anyway because although they're fantastically well made, how many fps's do you really need?

I've always been a couch gamer and have had pretty much one of everything over the years. I do occasionally miss the lack of proper controls on iPad 2 tbh, but not enough to make me spend 10x the price for the games anymore. I guess my advancing years might also have something to do with it!

 

[Vinci]

I wasn't inferring that the iPad is the cause of the 40% drop. That's not even possible.

He's talking about Facebook, mobile, MMO's, the whole enchilada. Combine all that and you could see the revenue drop he's referring to.

EDIT: revenue drop isn't the right way to phrase it, more like a drop in revenue share, since the industry overall grew over the last 10 years.

Well that's the question, isn't it? Whether the revenue has dropped or whether the enchilada has gotten larger. If it's simply gotten larger, investing in other areas is of course very intelligent - particularly if EA feels it can bring something desirable to the space. What it doesn't mean is that one platform for revenue is displacing another platform, especially when the existing platform still generates a large amount of revenue.

 

[Mikor]

Well that's the question, isn't it? Whether the revenue has dropped or whether the enchilada has gotten larger. If it's simply gotten larger, investing in other areas is of course very intelligent - particularly if EA feels it can bring something desirable to the space. What it doesn't mean is that one platform for revenue is displacing another platform, especially when the existing platform still generates a large amount of revenue.

Bingo. Mobile gaming has simply expanded the market. Sure, you're going to have former dedicated device users migrated to mobile platforms exclusively, but the same goes the other way. EA and other larger publishers will continue to make large pushes in the mobile space, but not at the expense of dedicated devices. The worst case scenario for pubs is a large portion of gamers who wouldn't have even paid their games a second look now potentially looking into purchasing a dedicated platform and moving into the enthusiast market.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Yep

For as long as there are people like me who want something more than $1 efforts there will always be a market for traditional handhelds, big or small.

iOS can suck my titties

Amen, fuck iOS. I don't want $1 games to satisfy my handheld needs.