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[stuminus3]

I think the fact that these kinds of comments spark such a debate is somewhat evidence to support the fact that there's life in the old dog yet.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

I found that interesting.

Well this industry has long suffered from parroting syndrome.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

People live in lalaland. DS shipments have declined 1M over one year. 3DS has to increase a ton for the sales to stay anywhere near flat

1m for a system in it's 7th year? Clearly the sky is falling!

It's called generational cycle and transition. You really don't think 3DS can make up that 1 million this year? Let's talk in December...

 

[electroplankton]

People live in lalaland. DS shipments have declined 1M over one year. 3DS has to increase a ton for the sales to stay anywhere near flat

It sold 140 million units in 6 years, higher rhythms than Game Boy and PS2, so it's obvious it declines a bit from the past trend.

 

[Lothars]

If you're referring to the group that still claim phones will overtake handheld gaming then yes I am quite inclined to agree with you. If not then you're deluded.

You are 100% right about that.

 

[kinggroin]

So, you want pay 5 dolars in a 10 million dolars software. its needs sell more than 2 millions of this game to pay their cost.

How many IOS games sell at least a half million?

How many iOS games are made as well?

 

[Pureauthor]

Hey, what date did the DSi and the DSLite get that price drop?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Hey, what date did the DSi and the DSLite get that price drop?

June 5th for the DS Lite. The DSi or DSiXL didn't drop in price.

 

[perryfarrell]

Totally agree with the article. Nintendo & Sony's handheld business is in the process of being murdered by the mobile phone market.

One point that I haven't seen made yet, is that Nintendo and Sony aren't just competing with mobile phones in terms of features (iPhone wins), game pricing (iPhone wins), customer base (iPhone wins), they're also competing for developers.

If you have a team of talented people with the goal of crankin out a third-party game on a mobile platform, what are you going to choose? A traditional, closed, mostly cartridge-based, game market for a mobile console on life support, with fees and slow approval processes? Or the new, open, digital download, mobile phone game market that is vibrant and can only get bigger? Many third parties will obviously choose the second option.

 

[Cromat]

Dedicated gaming handhelds dying is great for gamers, and the sooner the better.

One of the reasons smartphone gaming is 'crappy' (it really isn't but whatever) is that the quality games are mostly made for the dedicated handhelds. Once they are out of the picture, those games would arrive (cheaper) on smartphones that we all already own and carry around with us. That's how mobile gaming should be done.

The whole button issue is exaggerated and accurate at the same time. To be fair, I think that many (if not most) genres that are fitted to handhelds don't really require buttons. For example, Pokemon would work just fine with only touch controls. However, some genres obviously are much better with buttons. The solution is simple: with dedicated handhelds dying, companies like Sony and Nintendo would make their own gaming smartphones that have buttons while also running an established OS like Android. Problem solved.

 

[commish]

I think the fact that these kinds of comments spark such a debate is somewhat evidence to support the fact that there's life in the old dog yet.

Nah. Traditional handhelds are indeed dying. They'll survive because of first party games, but third party support will continue to shrivel up.

 

[Somnid]

Totally agree with the article. Nintendo & Sony's handheld business is in the process of being murdered by the mobile phone market.

One point that I haven't seen made yet, is that Nintendo and Sony aren't just competing with mobile phones in terms of features (iPhone wins), game pricing (iPhone wins), customer base (iPhone wins), they're also competing for developers.

If you have a team of talented people with the goal of crankin out a third-party game on a mobile platform, what are you going to choose? A traditional, closed, mostly cartridge-based, game market for a mobile console on life support, with fees and slow approval processes? Or the new, open, digital download, mobile phone game market that is vibrant and can only get bigger? Many third parties will obviously choose the second option.

It comes back to the quality issue. Only certain type of games are going to be made for iOS and only certain price points have proven to be successful.

 

[Mikor]

People have been gaming on their phones for a very very long time. Yes, its true that we've come a long way from Snake, but during this timeframe the handheld market did grow.

I'm not a financial analyst or anything, but I'm fairly certain the iOS/Android gaming market can exist WITH the dedicated handheld market. The author of this article, like so many other link fishers, are trying to make a comparison where there is none. My wife, my younger relatives, they all game on their iOS/Android devices - but also all have DS and 3DS'.

The dedicated handheld market is not being cannabalized by mobile gaming. The 3DS' poor performance has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with its marketing and presentation. The system looks ugly, the battery life is poor, and the software selection is currently lacking. Please do note that these issues, aside from battery life, are much the same of what was complained about during DS' year 1, and yet here we are.

Apologies if these points were already brought up and discussed.

EDIT: Read over the points stated earlier in the page. Looks like I'm in the minority on this one, but I still stand by my points, as stated.

 

[Pureauthor]

Totally agree with the article. Nintendo & Sony's handheld business is in the process of being murdered by the mobile phone market.

One point that I haven't seen made yet, is that Nintendo and Sony aren't just competing with mobile phones in terms of features (iPhone wins), game pricing (iPhone wins), customer base (iPhone wins), they're also competing for developers.

If you have a team of talented people with the goal of crankin out a third-party game on a mobile platform, what are you going to choose? A traditional, closed, mostly cartridge-based, game market for a mobile console on life support, with fees and slow approval processes? Or the new, open, digital download, mobile phone game market that is vibrant and can only get bigger? Many third parties will obviously choose the second option.

Most current 3rd party developers have business models that are entirely incompatible with the current iOS market. They simply don't have the infrastructure in place for making games that recoup far lower revenues than anything seen on dedicated handhelds, which is what the iOS market is all about.

So back to question about which they'll choose...

 

[Princess Skittles]

the battery life is poor

That doesn't seem to be hindering smartphones any.

I played an hour of Deathsmiles iOS this weekend and it took my phone from 100% to 40% and since I need that phone for other things during the day (texts, calls, etc.), that was all I could get out of it until I got back home to plug it back in. And even that left me cutting it close.

 

[stuminus3]

One point that I haven't seen made yet, is that Nintendo and Sony aren't just competing with mobile phones in terms of features (iPhone wins), game pricing (iPhone wins), customer base (iPhone wins), they're also competing for developers.

You can't play Super Mario on an iPhone.

 

[Lothars]

Nah. Traditional handhelds are indeed dying. They'll survive because of first party games, but third party support will continue to shrivel up.

Nah, They are not, mobile gaming is big but it's a different market than traditional handhelds It's not going anywhere anytime soon, if anything third party will make games for both handhelds and mobile which is the same thing that's happening now.

 

[Mikor]

That doesn't seem to be hindering smartphones any.

I played an hour of Deathsmiles iOS this weekend and it took my phone from 100% to 40% and since I need that phone for other things during the day (texts, calls, etc.), that was all I could get out of it until I got back home to plug it back in. And even that left me cutting it close.

Again, as I stated in my previous post, the point is that the mobile market is not cannibalizing the handheld market. The poor battery life I mentioned was in reference to the 3DS, specifically, and cited as a potential reason why people do not purchase. That's not really a statement of opinion, either.

The fact that the smartphone market continues to grow is not indicative of the handheld market declining. Two very different products with very different markets.

To say that smartphone gaming will kill dedicated gaming is like saying smartphone cameras kill dedicated cameras. No, sorry, the photography buffs will still purchase expensive, professional, dedicated equipment. The worst case scenario here is the handheld market contracts to pre-DS numbers - still nothing to sneeze at.

 

[rpmurphy]

You can't play Super Mario on an iPhone.

But even take a company like Capcom. I have a really hard time imagining that the developers look at Monster Hunter Portable and the upcoming mobile one, or look at the 3DS and mobile RE: Mercenaries and think "Yep, the mobile version is the hotter game."

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I tend to agree. Not because I've been whooly disatisfied by my 3DS purchase.

Really, what smart phones and tablets are doing is eating away at the casual audience who used to buy portable gaming platforms because they like games but played them only rarely for whatever reason. All of those people can by and large be made quite content with a brief splash of gaming from their iPod/smartphone/tablet.

It's also important to mention that "smartphone gaming" is no longer confined to the traditional visual cues of Angry Birds and other simple games. Have you guys seen some of the RPG's and FPS games on the iPad?

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dungeon-hunter-2-hd/id402441901?mt=8#

Only $6.99? Sheeeeeyit.

that market is going to grow. Android and iOS will be the most relevant portable gaming platforms because so many have been sold and will be sold in the future. Their futures are assured. New dedicated gaming platforms that don't do anything but gaming really well? Verdict is out, but the 3DS and Vita face an uphill battle for the all-important casuals that only gets more difficult looking into the future. I'm not sure if the core mobile gamer audience by itself is enough to sustain dedicated mobile gaming systems for many more years.

 

[Vinci]

I think it's simply a bit early to be calling this. I get the rationale on some levels, but it's nowhere near a 1:1 comparison between all dedicated handheld games and the smartphone ones - so it's hard to imagine the one completely outstripping the other. They'll probably co-exist for quite a long time and, perhaps, forever.

I think both fulfill different roles and each offers a certain form factor specifically built around those roles, making it hard if not impossible to have one completely outdo the other in what it does specifically well.

 

[stuminus3]

Only $6.99? Sheeeeeyit.

That's because Gameloft specialise in making the most soulless, cheapest, buggiest, dullest by-the-numbers carbon copies this side of China's bootleg market.

I seriously hope the smartphone future isn't a Gameloft future.

But even take a company like Capcom.

But that's not relevant. Nintendo's mantra has been "if you want to play Nintendo, you have to buy Nintendo" for nearly 30 years. They've traditionally backed this up with marketable must-have games. It's the single biggest reason they've not only survived but thrived for so long. It remains to be seen if a smartphone gaming industry in its infancy will be enough to break this long-standing rule of business. It might.

 

[Gamecocks625]

To say that smartphone gaming will kill dedicated gaming is like saying smartphone cameras kill dedicated cameras. No, sorry, the photography buffs will still purchase expensive, professional, dedicated equipment. The worst case scenario here is the handheld market contracts to pre-DS numbers - still nothing to sneeze at.

Smartphones, particularly iPhone, certainly killed the Flip Cam and are in the process of killing traditional point and shoot cameras. Also, numerous stories of people just not carrying their PSP or DS with them because they have their iPhone or iPad in hand are too much to ignore. You're right though...pro users are still going to go with their high tech photography equipment. That's a no-brainer. You will also still have the hardcore gamer types that love to trick out their PCs and rock their Vitas.

HOWEVER, I totally agree with you in that dedicated handhelds are not going to die in the sense that the development community, Nintendo, Sony, etc. completely abandon the platform. PC gaming is certainly not "dead" but the numbers just aren't there anymore IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE. Certainly, Facebook gaming, casual flash games are simply huge and you have the hardcore WOW here and there. It just looks different than it did before. I see the same thing happening with traditional handhelds. They aren't going to simply not exist anymore (but who knows!) but if they are to thrive and grow in an environment where many consumers are opting for iPhones and iPads as their portable device, they need to do something to differentiate the experience.

I agree, I don't see the Vita or 3DS numbers coming close to the PSP or DS market from a few years ago. They'll still sell, though, to those who value that experience. It's just that those numbers aren't what they used to be.

I seriously hope the smartphone future isn't a Gameloft future.

As a big fan of iOS gaming, I totally agree.

 

[Mikor]

I tend to agree. Not because I've been whooly disatisfied by my 3DS purchase.

Really, what smart phones and tablets are doing is eating away at the casual audience who used to buy portable gaming platforms because they like games but played them only rarely for whatever reason. All of those people can by and large be made quite content with a brief splash of gaming from their iPod/smartphone/tablet.

It's also important to mention that "smartphone gaming" is no longer confined to the traditional visual cues of Angry Birds and other simple games. Have you guys seen some of the RPG's and FPS games on the iPad?


http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dungeon-hunter-2-hd/id402441901?mt=8#

Only $6.99? Sheeeeeyit.

that market is going to grow. Android and iOS will be the most relevant portable gaming platforms because so many have been sold and will be sold in the future. Their futures are assured. New dedicated gaming platforms that don't do anything but gaming really well? Verdict is out, but the 3DS and Vita face an uphill battle for the all-important casuals that only gets more difficult looking into the future. I'm not sure if the core mobile gamer audience by itself is enough to sustain dedicated mobile gaming systems for many more years.

Now, all of this being said, have any of you actually tried to have an extended gameplay session rubbing your two thumbs on the glass screen emulating an analog stick? What about, when playing, having to constantly look at the on-screen controls to reference button position and layout? Speaking from personal experience, that's one of the most un-intuitive control mechanisms ever devised (the virtual sticks on touchscreen). SM64x4 on DS proved that much to me, and that still holds up today with modern touchscreen gaming devices.

One of the credits to Angry Birds' success is the simplicity and intuitiveness with which you interact with the game.

 

[m.i.s.]

Where else was $40 handheld games tried in the generation before 3DS and what happened to that handheld software market?

Answers on an e-postcard if you will. )

 

[Kyzer]

How can this be if its inevitable that the ultimate console of the future is handheld?

 

[MoogPaul]

I just came back from a multi-country European trip. People can argue all they want, the fact of the matter is that everywhere I went, 7 out of 10 kids were playing with iDevices and only 3 of 10 had DS's or PSPs. Handhelds have an up hill battle ahead of them.

 

[commish]

Now, all of this being said, have any of you actually tried to have an extended gameplay session rubbing your two thumbs on the glass screen emulating an analog stick? What about, when playing, having to constantly look at the on-screen controls to reference button position and layout? Speaking from personal experience, that's one of the most un-intuitive control mechanisms ever devised (the virtual sticks on touchscreen). SM64x4 on DS proved that much to me, and that still holds up today with modern touchscreen gaming devices.

One of the credits to Angry Birds' success is the simplicity and intuitiveness with which you interact with the game.

I hate touch controls for some types of games, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. If faced with the choice of spending $40 on a game and requiring a totally separate device vs. spending $7 on a game that I can play on a device I will always have with me, but with "lesser" controls, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm going to pick... at least for most game types

 

[AbsoluteZero]

That's a textbook example of why you should take a traditional game and force it onto a system that doesn't have a single button.

 

[Mikor]

I hate touch controls for some types of games, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. If faced with the choice of spending $40 on a game and requiring a totally separate device vs. spending $7 on a game that I can play on a device I will always have with me, but with "lesser" controls, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm going to pick... at least for most game types

Then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. Once again, we're arguing the merits of a mini-PC in your pocket against a dedicated device. This is, really, an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[Vinci]

I just came back from a multi-country European trip. People can argue all they want, the fact of the matter is that everywhere I went, 7 out of 10 kids were playing with iDevices and only 3 of 10 had DS's or PSPs. Handhelds have an up hill battle ahead of them.

Oh, anecdotal evidence: Every time I go into the supermarket to pick up groceries, I see probably on average at least three to four kids playing DSs (and even one with a 3DS). I've never seen one under the age of thirteen playing on an iOS device in that context, though I've seen plenty of teenagers texting on their phones.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I just came back from a multi-country European trip. People can argue all they want, the fact of the matter is that everywhere I went, 7 out of 10 kids were playing with iDevices and only 3 of 10 had DS's or PSPs. Handhelds have an up hill battle ahead of them.

How many of those iDevices were "Mom I'm bored can I play with your iPhone?" devices and how many of them were iDevices that are for the kid specifically?

 

[Famassu]

I certainly wouldn't mind traditional handheld gaming dying if I could play Peace Walker, Monster Hunter, Dissidia, Tales series, Birth By Sleep, Crisis Core, Def Jam and some more of my fav PSP games just as well as the PSP, it would be awesome if they were to be priced just like cheap IOS games.

You do understand that those kinds of games would never be made if all they could do is price them in the 5-9$ range? Sure, there are games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Ghost Trick available for ipHone, but I seriously doubt games like those would've been made if they had budgeted the projects for iPhone levels.

A clear example of this is that Square Enix JRPG exclusive to iPhone. Yeah, it's somewhat successful, but it isn't even comparable to something like Dragon Quest IX or The World Ends With You or Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep when it comes to how big & filled with content the game is.

 

[Lance Bone Path]

How many of those iDevices were "Mom I'm bored can I play with your iPhone?" devices and how many of them were iDevices that are for the kid specifically?

I've seen families that have bought their kids iphones or ipod touches due to two different factors:
1. It's what the the other kids have or want.
2. Software is cheap

 

[commish]

You do understand that those kinds of games would never be made if all they could do is price them in the 5-9$ range? Sure, there are games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Ghost Trick available for ipHone, but I seriously doubt games like those would've been made if they had budgeted the projects for iPhone levels.

A clear example of this is that Square Enix JRPG exclusive to iPhone. Yeah, it's somewhat successful, but it isn't even comparable to something like Dragon Quest IX or The World Ends With You or Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep when it comes to how big & filled with content the game is.

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

 

[Pureauthor]

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

If by 'easily done' you mean made, then... well, you're still wrong because TWEWY could not be made on any other system than the DS.

But that's beside the point, which is that the current iOS market cannot financially support the creation of such games.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

You can't play Super Mario on an iPhone.

But you can play it on Android
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-a1ygZVZGs

 

[Princess Skittles]

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

The World Ends With You and Kingdom Hearts would never work with a touch-only interface.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

Not for a $10-20 pricepoint. Which is sort of the point.

iOS advocates shouldn't want the platform killing dedicated gaming handhelds. iOS benefits directly from cheaper ports from these machines (like FF3 or CivRev), which as ground up iOS projects just wouldn't have happened due to the finances involved.

 

[Ulairi]

I tend to agree. Not because I've been whooly disatisfied by my 3DS purchase.

Really, what smart phones and tablets are doing is eating away at the casual audience who used to buy portable gaming platforms because they like games but played them only rarely for whatever reason. All of those people can by and large be made quite content with a brief splash of gaming from their iPod/smartphone/tablet.

It's also important to mention that "smartphone gaming" is no longer confined to the traditional visual cues of Angry Birds and other simple games. Have you guys seen some of the RPG's and FPS games on the iPad?

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dungeon-hunter-2-hd/id402441901?mt=8#

Only $6.99? Sheeeeeyit.

that market is going to grow. Android and iOS will be the most relevant portable gaming platforms because so many have been sold and will be sold in the future. Their futures are assured. New dedicated gaming platforms that don't do anything but gaming really well? Verdict is out, but the 3DS and Vita face an uphill battle for the all-important casuals that only gets more difficult looking into the future. I'm not sure if the core mobile gamer audience by itself is enough to sustain dedicated mobile gaming systems for many more years.

You know my point about people desperately wanting to justify their mobile device as a gaming platform? That game is a great example of this.

 

[commish]

If by 'easily done' you mean made, then... well, you're still wrong because TWEWY could not be made on any other system than the DS.

But that's beside the point, which is that the current iOS market cannot financially support the creation of such games.

So, what was the budget for The World Ends With You? I worship that game (as everyone does), but I don't see what was so "big budget" about it moreso than some iOS games I've played. As for the controls, I think it could be done for the most part, but that is beside the point, as you said.

 

[Ulairi]

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

You wish. Those would play terrible without buttons. Dragon Quest IX would the easier but any action RPG on iOS has been pretty awful without buttons. Touch screen buttons < Physical buttons.

 

[orioto]

With the market evolving so much and the war between apple and consoles so intensive, i wonder...
I know that Apple won't ever release a new iphone with buttons, but but but, could they release a "gamer" sku of the iphone ala xperia ? That would probably sell gigatons and wouldn't hurt the casual customers.

 

[Burai]

If by 'easily done' you mean made, then... well, you're still wrong because TWEWY could not be made on any other system than the DS.

But that's beside the point, which is that the current iOS market cannot financially support the creation of such games.

To be fair, the DS market couldn't support TWEWY either.

 

[Princess Skittles]

To be fair, the DS market couldn't support TWEWY either.

What's this supposed to mean?

 

[Mikor]

To be fair, the DS market couldn't support TWEWY either.

Issue with marketing and presentation, not the DS market itself.

 

[Famassu]

Those 3 games are easily done on an iOS device.

Uhh... Not a chance in hell. Maybe smartphones could RUN them, but 1) that wasn't the point and 2) all of them are too big budget-wise for the kind of prices iPhone games are sold for and 3) especially Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep & The World Ends With You would NEVER work gameplay-wise without the control options PSP & DS offer. The point was that a game with a massive budget (for a handheld) like Birth By Sleep would never get green-lit as it is now, on PSP, if it was made ONLY for iOS (sure, some games like these might get ports, but those are AFTER they've made all the money and probably/possibly profited with the more expensive versions). They'd have to cut the amount of content they make (or worse, release it episodically) and drop the production values significantly for such a game to ever be made for smartphones.

To be fair, the DS market couldn't support TWEWY either.

That is wrong (it sold decently well) and besides, even if we assumed DS couldn't support the game with 4-8x the price of iPhone games, what makes you think the iPhone market would've? They would've had to sell 4-8x the amount of games just to get similar profits to the DS sales, not to even mention having to sell way more to bring in significantly bigger profits.

 

[rpmurphy]

To be fair, the DS market couldn't support TWEWY either.

LTD sales in Japan were ~200K.

 

[M3d10n]

So, what was the budget for The World Ends With You? I worship that game (as everyone does), but I don't see what was so "big budget" about it moreso than some iOS games I've played. As for the controls, I think it could be done for the most part, but that is beside the point, as you said.

I don't know about TWEWY, but there is an interview with the GTA Chinatow Wars devs which state that the iOS port revenue wasn't enough to fund an iOS-exclusive game with the same budget as the original.

Moreover, the "casual" iOS public is shunning away from paid games altogether. It's all F2P now.

 

[SonicX_Zero]

I just came back from a multi-country European trip. People can argue all they want, the fact of the matter is that everywhere I went, 7 out of 10 kids were playing with iDevices and only 3 of 10 had DS's or PSPs. Handhelds have an up hill battle ahead of them.

Agreed, the sample size and experience speaks for itself that dedicated handhelds are indeed dying.