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[Ulairi]

Or maybe, I'll keep my deep games for my consoles, and when I want a quick fix I'll go to the phone?

Then don't go into threads for real gaming platforms and smart off. I like playing deep and complex games on my PC, my handhelds and my consoles. I don't want to waste my limited time on shite games.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I'm not asking why the ESRB came to be. I know why it came to be. I'm asking for an example of a mobile phone application that is mis-rated.

I know. And I'm not answering because it's a largely irrelevant and intrinsically subjective question. We're not "there" yet, but it's where we're going.

 

[SeanR1221]

Then don't go into threads for real gaming platforms and smart off. I like playing deep and complex games on my PC, my handhelds and my consoles. I don't want to waste my limited time on shite games.

This comment literally makes no sense.

I follow all gaming news.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I know. And I'm not answering because it's a largely irrelevant and intrinsically subjective question. We're not "there" yet, but it's where we're going.

Apple has rated more games than the ESRB has.

I'll say it again: Apple has rated more games than the ESRB has.

Why are you sure that they're going to fuck it up in the future? The criticism against Apple isn't that they'll under-rate a game, it's that they'll over-rate one or fail it due to content that would have been allowable elsewhere (like that crappy looking seal hunting game which IIRC did not get approved).

 

[jonnybryce]

No. He's not. He's sensible if you really want to play games on your iOS device. But, look at the games he lsited and you can see he's just like the Wii owners trying to justify the Conduit. He's trying to find games to fit his needs because he desperatly wants to feed his Apple boner. If he really wanted quality games then he would admit that when it comes to portable games the PSP and DS offer him much better games.

As a whole, the PSP and DS have more higher quality titles. Is iOS a RPG machine than can kill the PSP? Not at all. But it does have a wide variety of game types - I'm currently playing adventure, music and sports games and I don't feel like I've settled or that it's good for the platform. The games are just good, period.

I like games. I'm not someone who just wants to play shit games to kill time. I have no problem throwing down $40 for a platformer or music game but the point is iOS gaming makes me realize I don't have to. That's the change we're seeing and it can be scary, threatening, annoying, whatever but it's a real change.

 

[entremet]

And you're here to take whatever Father Steve is willing tell you to like. You're willing to lie to yourslf. I'm not.

What if he just enjoys his device? Ever thought of that?

 

[Ulairi]

As a whole, the PSP and DS have more higher quality titles. Is iOS a RPG machine than can kill the PSP? Not at all. But it does have a wide variety of game types - I'm currently playing adventure, music and sports games and I don't feel like I've settled or that it's good for the platform. The games are just good, period.

I like games. I'm not someone who just wants to play shit games to kill time. I have no problem throwing down $40 for a platformer or music game but the point is iOS gaming makes me realize I don't have to. That's the change we're seeing and it can be scary, threatening, annoying, whatever but it's a real change.

The problem is that your rules are:

Game on iOS
RPG


So you find games but are they better than the DS or PSP RPGs? No. But, they are on the iOS. My rule:

Great games

I don't care about the platform.

 

[jonnybryce]

The problem is that your rules are:

Game on iOS
RPG


So you find games but are they better than the DS or PSP RPGs? No. But, they are on the iOS. My rule:

Great games

I don't care about the platform.

You misunderstood my post completely.

 

[SeanR1221]

Also, your conduit analogy makes no sense.

It would be better if like...

All the iOS games were 30.00 or something.

And people said, might as well just buy iOS games since I own a phone!

 

[[Nintex]]

Great games

I don't care about the platform.

There's great games on iOS, hell I've found games I consider good on the wild west Android Market.

 

[Version 3.0]

Jesus, why hasn't this happened yet? Shit, I'd even settle for a wired controller considering how close these devices usually are to the user.

Why hasn't someone made a controller for the iPhone? Because if your game needs one, then it'll only sell to people who have one (and it shouldn't be on the iPhone in the first place). If it doesn't, then...it doesn't.

I do wish they'd make one, though, I'd love to see a guy on a bus hunched over a phone balanced on his knees with a controller in his hands.

 

[hyp]

Ulairi is just having a bad day. someone gift him groove coaster or something.

 

[FoneBone]

Why hasn't someone made a controller for the iPhone? Because if your game needs one, then it'll only sell to people who have one (and it shouldn't be on the iPhone in the first place). If it doesn't, then...it doesn't.

I do wish they'd make one, though, I'd love to see a guy on a bus hunched over a phone balanced on his knees with a controller in his hands.

I think the thought is more some kind of controller shell, not an actual separate controller per se.

 

[SeanR1221]

I think the thought is more some kind of controller shell, not an actual separate controller per se.

Once Apple comes out with one (if they ever decide to) then you'll see it supported.

If Steve wants to go for the jugular?

Include it with the phone.

 

[staticneuron]

I am not going to contest the "quality" of iOS games, I am just wondering how on earth people feel comfortable playing named titles without buttons and a stick.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd erase the 3DS and have Nintendo iterate on the GameBoy Micro as the DS successor. Give me a small, sleek, and super-portable handheld with a d-pad and buttons that is clearly differentiated from the touchscreen smartphones.

 

[Tobor]

You're totally allowed to enjoy 5 year old DS ports. I'm going to enjoy a 13 year PS1 port soon on my iPhone. I wouldn't even begin to put forward the idea my iPhone can replace a dedicated device due to that though.

I don't see what one has to do with the other. It's not all 5 year old ports, any more than it's all flash games. It's a wide and varied library that offers enough to satisfy some, and not enough for others.

Let's put aside the hyperbolic crusades of the "real gamers". The question is, is it a good enough catalog to send the traditional handhelds into an eventual decline? If so, how far will that decline go?

IMO, traditional handhelds will not be as successful as the past. I don't think they'll disappear, but the heights of the DS will be out of reach. The market is too varied for that type of success to be repeated.

 

[Version 3.0]

I feel ashamed for all of these so called gamers that are so willing to sell out gaming in order to feed their Apple boner. We should be fighting against iOS and fighting for the traditional games that some of love. I don’t want gaming to be like the shit that Android and Apple offer up. I will bow out when that’s the market. Keep your casual flash games to your mom and dad. Deep and complex games are BETTER than your shitty iOS games. And pointing to a 5 year old port as an example that your iOS device is just as good is stupid.

The simple fact is that none of the games I like are able to be developed for for iOS the market doesn’t support them. It supports late ports after I’ve already played and beaten the game but we cannot see a Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Mario, etc. developed and released on iOS. I don’t mean the franchises, I mean the quality of game.

There's no need to "fight". Every segment of the gaming landscape is still viable. Stop feeling threatened when you're not under attack.

 

[Ulairi]

There's great games on iOS, hell I've found games I consider good on the wild west Android Market.

The board game ports to iOS have been fantastic. But, when people start posting about "traditional" games they are playing on their iPhone or iPad, I haven't ever had one that is as good as what I can get on the DS or PSP. Every major hyped game, like Infinity Blade have turned out to be shallow nuggets that only if you're really searching for an iOS game can be that great.

As I have always said if you view handheld gaming to be subordinate to console gaming and something that you just do to waste a few minutes here and there, then the iOS games are fine. But if you want meaty complex games the content on the PSP, DS and soon to be 3DS and Vita are going to be so much better, why waste my time? I view handheld gaming to be on the same level as my PC or console. When I played Dragon Quest IX it wasn't because I wanted something to waste a few minutes on but because Dragon Quest IX is an awesome game and happens to be on the DS. When I picked up Super Mario Brothers 3D Land this Christmas it's because it's going to be an awesome game.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I wouldn't go as far as your last sentence, but this sums it up pretty well.

This part is especially true, and it's the part that bothers me the most:

It's similar when ports of ports (GTA:CW, FFT:WotL) are brought up here. People bring these titles up as if they show that companies can create games of this level of complexity, depth, and visual polish on a mobile platform for $10, ignoring that these releases are possible because these titles have already recouped their costs in their initial release and are now seeking after only secondary income.

If 3rd party publishers are willing to use PSP/Vita/DS/3DS gamers to fork the bill and then port over their games to iOS for cheaper, why would I buy their games? What's the guarantee that SFxTekken is not gonna show up on iPad 3 for 10 bucks in 2013? Or Bioshock Vita? Or KH DDD? CW and FFTWotL are now cheaper on iOS than on DS or PSP. Shouldn't Take 2 and SE at least match those prices on PSN as well?

Yeah, I see both DSes and PSPs on the NYC subway pretty frequently. DS skews younger, but I still see plenty of adults on one.

Since I moved here last August I've probably seen 2 PSPs and 4-5 DS on the Washington metro, which I take to and from work every day.

 

[electroplankton]

Or maybe, I'll keep my deep games for my consoles, and when I want a quick fix I'll go to the phone?

One may totally share your opinion, but I think there's still some kind of elitarism concerning handheld devices; there exist a lot of deep games on DS and PSP, in every genre, from jRPG to racing passing through action and platform. There are also quicker experiences though, so they're platforms that can easily conjugate these two kind of gaming experiences.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Apple has rated more games than the ESRB has.

I'll say it again: Apple has rated more games than the ESRB has.

Why are you sure that they're going to fuck it up in the future? The criticism against Apple isn't that they'll under-rate a game, it's that they'll over-rate one or fail it due to content that would have been allowable elsewhere (like that crappy looking seal hunting game which IIRC did not get approved).

Have they? The ESRB rates over a 1000 games a year, and rated over 1600 last year going by their site, and they've been doing this since 1994. How many games (not apps) has Apple rated?

And it's not about "fucking up", it's about iOS platforms getting into younger and younger hands. Platform holders self-regulating was the core issue, that's why the ESRB worked as a solution (industry wide self regulation). Maybe it'll take a singular "Mortal Kombat" moment, maybe it won't, but I think eventually mobile publishers will come under similar pressure to standardize if children are using their devices.

Apple hasn't "fucked up" so they'll never "fuck up"? Is that what you're suggesting?

 

[Grayman]

The problem is that your rules are:

Game on iOS
RPG


So you find games but are they better than the DS or PSP RPGs? No. But, they are on the iOS. My rule:

Great games

I don't care about the platform.

You seem to care far too much about the platform and its perceived inability to provide great games.

 

[electroplankton]

If 3rd party publishers are willing to use PSP/Vita/DS/3DS gamers to fork the bill and then port over their games to iOS for cheaper, why would I buy their games? What's the guarantee that SFxTekken is not gonna show up on iPad 3 for 10 bucks in 2013? Or Bioshock Vita? Or KH DDD? CW and FFTWotL are now cheaper on iOS than on DS or PSP. Shouldn't Take 2 and SE at least match those prices on PSN as well?

Well, considering Chinatown Wars and Final Fantasy Tactics, prices are almost the same now. Anyway, on DS and PSP have better controls in my opinion. The same as The Mercenaries, almost impossible to play on iPhone for me but perfect on 3DS (where it's better anyway).

 

[radioheadrule83]

This discussion has degenerated into somewhat of an amusing argument... I know where I stand on it. IMO the article is garbage and 3DS/Vita are going to murder smartphones in the software stakes over the next few years.

To the guy who mentioned bluetooth gaming controllers - are you seriously advocating a separate controller for your handheld device? What good would that be? Something that slots into a mini-USB or Apple port and becomes one with the phone chassis would be better.

 

[Version 3.0]

I think the thought is more some kind of controller shell, not an actual separate controller per se.

Well, that's not as good for laughs, but it still presents the same problems. But why turn your phone into a handheld? That's as dumb (and frustrating) as handhelds pretending to be consoles, which they've been doing (despite my rage) for years. I say, let the phone be the pick-up-and-play market, let home consoles / PCs take the "big game" market, and let handhelds die a much-deserved, painful, prolonged death.

Too bad indications are that's not happening, though. At least not yet.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I don't see what one has to do with the other. It's not all 5 year old ports, any more than it's all flash games. It's a wide and varied library that offers enough to satisfy some, and not enough for others.

Let's put aside the hyperbolic crusades of the "real gamers". The question is, is it a good enough catalog to send the traditional handhelds into an eventual decline? If so, how far will that decline go?

IMO, traditional handhelds will not be as successful as the past. I don't think they'll disappear, but the heights of the DS will be out of reach. The market is too varied for that type of success to be repeated.

Well, I don't disagree per se. Actually upthread you'll find me talking about the iOS games I consider equal to my favorite DS games and admitting that it's taking a bite out of dedicated handhelds.

Meanwhile upthread, I noticed you gleefully comparing Apple to The Terminator. Hyperbolic crusading indeed. :3

 

[Fantastical]

I say this with no Hyperbole: If the portable games market one day ends up being only iOS, you can bet your ass that I'll be a permanent retro handheld gamer.

I will still have an iPhone and play apps, but it won't be the same. I sound like such an old, grumpy man saying this, but I really like my handhelds and I don't really want to game on an iPhone. Sure, I like Tiny Tower and Angry Birds, but in the end I find more meaty experiences (which I know there are some on the iPhone too) you find on the dedicated handhelds. It would be a shame to see that market just disappear.

 

[Dunan]

You know what else is "in permanent decline", Rob?

Oil.

Many of those people driving themselves to work in those gas-guzzling cars are going to start taking the train and the bus. Not all at once, but each time there's a big jump in gas prices, some will, and eventually they'll move to where the jobs are and realize how much more efficient it is to take a 20-30 minute train ride in to work and actually get to enjoy oneself on the train. Once you start doing it, you won't want to ever deal with driving every day again.

That means, for the digital generation, handheld games that actually occupy your attention on a daily basis. In Japan everyone's got a DS or PSP and they're not playing 99¢ throwaway stuff. I see kids, working adults, elderly -- everybody plays handheld games.

I love my DS and PSP and will buy a Vita on day one. They make each day's commute a breeze.

 

[Tobor]

Well, I don't disagree per se. Actually upthread you'll find me talking about the iOS games I consider equal to my favorite DS games and admitting that it's taking a bite out of dedicated handhelds.

Meanwhile upthread, I noticed you gleefully comparing Apple to The Terminator. Hyperbolic crusading indeed. :3

That was a joke, though. I put the "" and everything!

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

That was a joke, though. I put the "" and everything!

I know, but the sentiment is the same.

 

[Tobor]

I know, but the sentiment is the same.

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

 

[Sennorin]

Are smartphones still touchscreen-only? Yes, I thought so.

 

[1-D_FTW]

You know what else is "in permanent decline", Rob?

Oil.

Many of those people driving themselves to work in those gas-guzzling cars are going to start taking the train and the bus. Not all at once, but each time there's a big jump in gas prices, some will, and eventually they'll move to where the jobs are and realize how much more efficient it is to take a 20-30 minute train ride in to work and actually get to enjoy oneself on the train. Once you start doing it, you won't want to ever deal with driving every day again.

That means, for the digital generation, handheld games that actually occupy your attention on a daily basis. In Japan everyone's got a DS or PSP and they're not playing 99¢ throwaway stuff. I see kids, working adults, elderly -- everybody plays handheld games.

I love my DS and PSP and will buy a Vita on day one. They make each day's commute a breeze.

I think everyone knows why they're playing on 3DS and PSP. It doesn't have to be pointed out.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

You know what else is "in permanent decline", Rob?

Oil.

Many of those people driving themselves to work in those gas-guzzling cars are going to start taking the train and the bus. Not all at once, but each time there's a big jump in gas prices, some will, and eventually they'll move to where the jobs are and realize how much more efficient it is to take a 20-30 minute train ride in to work and actually get to enjoy oneself on the train. Once you start doing it, you won't want to ever deal with driving every day again.

That means, for the digital generation, handheld games that actually occupy your attention on a daily basis. In Japan everyone's got a DS or PSP and they're not playing 99¢ throwaway stuff. I see kids, working adults, elderly -- everybody plays handheld games.

I love my DS and PSP and will buy a Vita on day one. They make each day's commute a breeze.

I'd love to be able to take a bus.

But there ain't no busses where I live.

 

[RedSwirl]

I think that at-worst, smartphone gaming will eat away at the casual market that helped build up the DS, and dedicated handheld gaming will recede and sell almost purely to the hardcore market. As long as that core market is there, smartphone gaming will never completely wipe out dedicated handheld gaming.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Have they? The ESRB rates over a 1000 games a year, and rated over 1600 last year going by their site, and they've been doing this since 1994. How many games (not apps) has Apple rated?

There are 73,181 games active in the app store. I don't know how many have been taken down, so I'll just say ~75,000. In other words, significantly more than the ESRB. I wasn't joking.

Apple are significantly more experienced at making sure games are rated appropriately than the ESRB are.

Oh also they rate applications as well using the exact same scale so if you really want to get technical they've reviewed significantly more than just those 75,000 games.

I'm getting the impression you don't have a lot of experience with the app store. That's okay. But you probably shouldn't be making claims about what will/won't happen if you don't understand how the system works.

And it's not about "fucking up", it's about iOS platforms getting into younger and younger hands. Platform holders self-regulating was the core issue, that's why the ESRB worked as a solution (industry wide self regulation). Maybe it'll take a singular "Mortal Kombat" moment, maybe it won't, but I think eventually mobile publishers will come under similar pressure to standardize if children are using their devices.

Again, you're not actually making a point, you're just saying that it's inevitable. Because of Mortal Kombat. Because Mortal Kombat caught the industry off guard. Nothing is, has, or will caught Apple off-guard in this respect. They've already dealt with violence both cartoon and real, sexuality both cartoon and real, foul language, racist, bigoted, or intolerant content, etc. They're already dealt with drug stuff, tobacco, religious content. I'm not sure what kind of content that's out there that Apple hasn't dealt with. So how is a game going to blindside them with its content in a way that they can't predict or react to?

Oh, also, Apple's process is immune to the Hot Coffee / Oblivion "cut content" mis-rating issue, since they review the actual game package including assets inside the game that are not accessible. The ESRB by contrast uses a video reel.

100% of all games are rated and reviewed by an actual Apple employee.

Apple hasn't "fucked up" so they'll never "fuck up"? Is that what you're suggesting?

No, it's that Apple does things to structurally avoid the problem you're talking about, even at the expense of causing the opposite problem. There's stuff that's 17+ on the app store that would be T in the ESRB. Opera (the web browser) was 17+ on the app store for a while. In addition, unlike the ESRB which has the option of an AO, Apple actually rejects content outright that don't meet its guidelines, and I've already given you an example of that.

 

[The Bookerman]

I'm not a big fan of iOs games or Android games. Limited input : touch and gyros make most of the games "Throw away" games, and I mean by that, games I will likely not revisit 2 to 5 years later.

It's a huge market right now, but that doesn't mean it's gonna make handheld irrelevant. I bet that this huge bubble of Ios gaming's gonna burst, unless Apple does something about. You can do so many Fruit ninja/Angry birds/cut the rope iterations.

I simply don't think nintendo will sell a shit ton of 3ds' unless it has a killer app that you can't find anywhere else. It also needs to revist it's online strategy. Sell nintendo points everywhere would be a good start: kinda like itunes.

Guess I took shots at both sides here, huh?

 

[bigtroyjon]

As I said, do the same for home consoles and see what it looks like. The game console business is cyclical, and you're looking at the end of a cycle. Again, the DS was the best-selling game system in 2010. Being #1 isn't normally indicative of obsolescence.

You might also note that this generation of handhelds - or even the DS alone - has had sales that dwarf all previous generations. When you have that kind of aberration, you might question whether sales were abnormally high, and whether they're returning to normal rather than displaying an unhealthy decline.

The business isn't only hardware. The software has declined at pretty much the same rate as hardware. Doesn't matter how many devices they have sold in the past if nobody is buying software now.

We don't have the same data for total home console software sales but Nintendo home console software hasn't had anywhere close to the same drop. Hardware is down 40% from the peak two years ago but software is only down 15%.

 

[Mato]

I think there IS an ongoing decline, which partly has to do with the declining state of western economies. Many people simply can't afford the traditional model of gaming (anymore), and cheap games on phones do the job. Nintendo (and others) need to rethink their strategy and philosophy. It's clear that they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. At this age of steep competition, it's ridiculous Nintendo can't even set up a decent online platform while their president resorts to embarassing public introspective analysis. Sony is such a fat mess, they are beyond dinasaur.

Personally I think Japanese developers need to form some kind of a Japanese game developer consortium and create cheap universal japanese mobile platform and offer hordes of simple, fun, innovative cheap nano-software with heavy super-streamlined online functionality. That could have a real chance against the current western juggernaut.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Well, considering Chinatown Wars and Final Fantasy Tactics, prices are almost the same now. Anyway, on DS and PSP have better controls in my opinion. The same as The Mercenaries, almost impossible to play on iPhone for me but perfect on 3DS (where it's better anyway).

Just checked, GTA CW on PSN = 19.99, GTA CW on appstore = 9.99. Couldn't find FFT on the appstore. If 3rd party publishers want to do this (release a game first on PSN/3DS for U$30-U$40 and then release it a year later for U$10 bucks on iOS, then they need to match the price on PSN/3DS) otherwise it's pretty much a slap on the face and I, for one, won't support this business practice.

 

[Version 3.0]

The business isn't only hardware. The software has declined at pretty much the same rate as hardware. Doesn't matter how many devices they have sold in the past if nobody is buying software now.

We don't have the same data for total home console software sales but Nintendo home console software hasn't had anywhere close to the same drop. Hardware is down 40% from the peak two years ago but software is only down 15%.

Obviously "nobody is buying software" is not a remotely accurate description of the situation. And nobody buys a handheld without buying, at the very least, one game.

Your comparison there isn't very telling. You're now comparing 1st-party Wii software - Nintendo's strength - vs total portable software, during a time when the PSP died off with nothing to replace it.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

What a mess.

Personally, I've tried to enjoy smartphone gaming but the lack of real, ergonomic controls absolutely kills the fun-factor for me. Some genres do great on touchscreens but those are generally the ones I don't care for. I'm glad so many people like it, tho. I don't begrudge them their enjoyment. I basically just use my phone for non-games now and stick to the dedicated handhelds for any gaming. If I'm waiting in line or what have you I will check my e-mail, or browse the web before I play a game on my phone. I dislike it that much.

The real truth for me is that, as an adult that has to drive to work, I rarely play handheld games outside the house, except on vacation or trips. So why do I have them? Exclusive software. If it weren't for compelling, exclusive software, people wouldn't have a lot of the devices they have in their homes. If every game ever made was legally available for PC then I wouldn't have any consoles or handhelds. BUT they aren't, and therefore I have every console, etc. There are just too many great games to skip them, and I don't lie to myself and convince myself I'm not really missing anything by not having them.

So that being said, all it really takes for me is good software. A killer game. When those games finally come for 3DS and Vita, will there be enough people like me or not? I don't know.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Obviously "nobody is buying software" is not a remotely accurate description of the situation. And nobody buys a handheld without buying, at the very least, one game.

Your comparison there isn't very telling. You're now comparing 1st-party Wii software - Nintendo's strength - vs total portable software, during a time when the PSP died off with nothing to replace it.

First of all, of course new users buy software. That's exactly what I said, the existing userbase isn't buying software as it's fallen along with hardware.

I'm not comparing first party software, I'm talking about total software on the Wii. And something has replaced the PSP, which is what the entire conversation is about.

 

[Version 3.0]

First of all, of course new users buy software. That's exactly what I said, the existing userbase isn't buying software as it's fallen along with hardware.

I'm not comparing first party software, I'm talking about total software on the Wii. And something has replaced the PSP, which is what the entire conversation is about.

What you have here is speculation, inconsistent data and zero analysis to back up what you've determined in advance to be true. I'm not saying it isn't true. I'm saying you can't yet prove it. And you haven't shown a single data point that doesn't have as good or better an explanation than "smartphones are taking over".

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

There are 73,181 games active in the app store. I don't know how many have been taken down, so I'll just say ~75,000. In other words, significantly more than the ESRB. I wasn't joking.

Apple are significantly more experienced at making sure games are rated appropriately than the ESRB are.

Oh also they rate applications as well using the exact same scale so if you really want to get technical they've reviewed significantly more than just those 75,000 games.

I'm getting the impression you don't have a lot of experience with the app store. That's okay. But you probably shouldn't be making claims about what will/won't happen if you don't understand how the system works.

Again, you're not actually making a point, you're just saying that it's inevitable. Because of Mortal Kombat. Because Mortal Kombat caught the industry off guard. Nothing is, has, or will caught Apple off-guard in this respect. They've already dealt with violence both cartoon and real, sexuality both cartoon and real, foul language, racist, bigoted, or intolerant content, etc. They're already dealt with drug stuff, tobacco, religious content. I'm not sure what kind of content that's out there that Apple hasn't dealt with. So how is a game going to blindside them with its content in a way that they can't predict or react to?

Oh, also, Apple's process is immune to the Hot Coffee / Oblivion "cut content" mis-rating issue, since they review the actual game package including assets inside the game that are not accessible. The ESRB by contrast uses a video reel.

100% of all games are rated and reviewed by an actual Apple employee.

No, it's that Apple does things to structurally avoid the problem you're talking about, even at the expense of causing the opposite problem. There's stuff that's 17+ on the app store that would be T in the ESRB. Opera (the web browser) was 17+ on the app store for a while. In addition, unlike the ESRB which has the option of an AO, Apple actually rejects content outright that don't meet its guidelines, and I've already given you an example of that.

I looked it up, the number of games on the US store as of August 01, 2011 is 66,972 currently. I'll freely admit, my experience with the App Store is almost entirely first hand, so maybe that speaks to something.

However, I don't feel my suitability to open discourse should necessarily hinge on specific knowledge of Apple's inner workings, since that's a bit beside my point. It's not about their process, it's that they have a purely internal process not subject to external review. This standard hasn't worked in any widespread modern media that targets children, and the argument that Apple's overly cautious, that they don't make mistakes or they never will, doesn't strike me as a compelling one indicating they'll be the lone exception forever and ever. Nintendo didn't screw up either.

You're also greatly (intentionally?) downplaying esrb review, which is also done "by an employee" and generally with review materials more involved than only watching a film reel. They're also working on a simplified automated process (targeted at digital games), but as far as I'm aware it has yet to launch.

 

[bigtroyjon]

What you have here is speculation, inconsistent data and zero analysis to back up what you've determined in advance to be true. I'm not saying it isn't true. I'm saying you can't yet prove it. And you haven't shown a single data point that doesn't have as good or better an explanation than "smartphones are taking over".

The handheld market is about half of what it was 4 years ago, both in terms of hardware sold and software sold. The attach rates have been dramatically cut down even though the userbase has gotten older. It's entirely possible that people are just playing the same games over and over and still using the same devices but I think the more reasonable explanation is that something else has occupied that mobile gaming time.

The hardware might be blamed on typical cycles but home consoles never have had a "cycle" where software sales fell off a cliff. Home software has been steady or risen for over a decade now. All 3 current consoles have seen attach rates consistently rise, even when hardware sales cooled. The software fall off is the big sign that the market has shifted elsewhere.

We will know a lot 9 months from now, if Nintendo is able to meet their forecasts then we will see an uptick in the sales for the year. That would be a great sign that maybe we have hit the floor and things are not as bad as some of us think. If they don't meet forecasts and the market keeps shrinking then there might not be a floor.

 

[matmanx1]

When they make a sub $300 phone that has graphics as good as the Vita and control options that are as good or better than the Vita with the software options that the Vita will have (PSN + new original content) then I will have no more need for a dedicated handheld. Until then I will continue to love my dedicated handheld gaming devices.

I can see from this thread that I'm not alone in this opinion.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'm not a market analyst so I'll just speak for myself and my own experiences.

I can definitely see the mainstream appeal of gaming on an iPhone or android device. The user isn't buying it specifically to game with, but it does play games. And Apple has made it so easy to buy them. The price point is very approachable. I mean...let's be real...40 dollars versus 99 cents? Which do you think your average casual gamer is going to go for?

They're not taking the time to learn the intricacies of advanced wars. They're tossing birds....with a control scheme that's natural to them.

I enjoy having an iPhone and it does casual games very well....but I'm tired of waiting for "big budget" titles. We get Final Fantasy Tactics this week. Yay. Yet for every FFT, theres 100 99 cent popcorn games trying to be the next angry birds.

I want a dedicated portable games console. And I have no problem spending more money for a better experience. The price drop of the 3DS appeals to gamers like me that are lookin for something "more" out of their portable gaming experience.

All this talk that the 3DS is doomed to the mobile market is analytical chest thumping. Nothing more. Even the naysayers are conceding that the 3DS is performing around the same numbers as the DS did at the same point in it's life cycle.

Nintendo has to adapt...and they will. This is only the beginning.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Well, I always did say portables and their games are way too expensive for what they offer tech-wise. That's the primary reason why I never really got into them unfortunately. Hopefully, prices will come down in the future due to all of the competition. Sort of off topic, but I will never understand why so many people have a problem with $15 or even some $10 PSN/XBox Live games, but have no problem with $25-$50 portable games.