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[gsnyder]

What the hell. I'll bite:

Saw it twice in theatres, just viewed the original and Legacy on Blu Ray. Legacy held up much better on the third viewing, and in some ways I think Legacy is more successful than the original in many regards. Much like the original, I think this one presents a lot of big ideas that it doesn't quite deliver on. That doesn't, however, make it a bad movie by any stretch. It's a much more human story than the original; and while not as obviously pioneering in its use of CG, it lives up to the...*ahem* legacy of its predecessor.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Watching it again at home I think the film was one of the best of last year.

Loved the scene when Clu first appears on the empty grid where all there is is a flat plane and a rudimentry sky just as if a programmer had built only the framework for their project. Then later you see them planning or designing the game grid / stadium and it being represented with a hologram.

Like the original the movie is far more clever than people give credit for and the original is especially amazing given the time period.

There's a huge amount of subtle detail and worldbuilding in the film. Regardless of how basic the overt plot is for this chapter of the story.

Like, for example, here's something that personally blew my mind when I realized it.

In the original film, Dr. Walter Gibbs was told off by Dillinger to the effect he could be put "back in that garage" - the garage Encom started in. This is because Walter Gibbs was one of the founders of Encom, and he started the company almost a decade before from a literal garage - a shipping warehouse he lived in.

In Tron Legacy, pay close attention to the warf front property that Sam is living in. Why would he be living there specifically? Well, it has a nice view of where Encom headquarters is. Sam is clearly living off the money and property get gets from Encom. If one looks carefully, a faded sign above the warehouse says "DUMONT" - Dumont shipping. After pursuing some of the expanded materials and concept art, it seems that this is meant to be the literal warehouse that Walter Gibbs started Encom from. And somewhere down the line, it was probably still owned by the company on some dusty asset sheet.

Dumont also being the name of the program Walter created in the Encom server, it would seem the concept is that is where "Dumont" came from; perhaps Walter's subconscious in whatever way creators in Tron's world influence the electronic world. It also seems very appropriate that Sam, the anarchist, would find this old property and set up shop there after realizing what its significance was.

No matter what anyone thinks of this film, they cannot say is production wasn't lovingly constructed.

And LOL at the hyperbole comparing the effects scenes to 10 year old video game cut scenes. Jesus Christ; it's fuckin' Tron. Of course the electronic world looks like a video game. That's the point. There's damned chip tunes and arcade bleeps in the sound track and ambient sound effects.

 

[Kai Dracon]

What the hell. I'll bite:

Saw it twice in theatres, just viewed the original and Legacy on Blu Ray. Legacy held up much better on the third viewing, and in some ways I think Legacy is more successful than the original in many regards. Much like the original, I think this one presents a lot of big ideas that it doesn't quite deliver on. That doesn't, however, make it a bad movie by any stretch. It's a much more human story than the original; and while not as obviously pioneering in its use of CG, it lives up to the...*ahem* legacy of its predecessor.

In a sense, you encapsulate why I feel this is in the end a great film. While the "A" story doesn't really explore the ideas presented extensively, like Tron the construction of the movie, the ideas underpinning it, and its world give it more meat than it appears at first glance.

In a typical film, ironically, the A plot is all there is. Either it's engaging or it's boring. That's all you have in the film to consider. In a film like Tron (either Tron), there's a lot to think about in its world, and viewing the film over and over just continues to intrigue for the look into that world being presented, if not the overt plot.

The original film, to this day, presents a fascinating, if fantasized, look at the early world of computers going corporate and the birth of the modern hacker and technoanarchist. And of the modern world if IP theft and how profound it was going to be in the highly profitable computer age.

These are films about men being zapped by lasers and going into computers to play video games, yet somehow, they are built upon foundations that are rich with multifaceted ideas.

Ironically, this sets them apart from many fantasy films which have stronger primary storylines or character arcs, but forgettable, generic settings. And perhaps this is why the films are so interesting; they're one of the few attempts at crafting a modern fantasy - even more so than patch jobs to update traditional fantasy, such as taking wizards and placing them in urban environments. This is a fantasy build around the issues and metaphors of this age - computers, technology, communications, constructed worlds, and what people might become or the power they might wield (or be victimized by). And of course, video games.

 

[gsnyder]

In a sense, you encapsulate why I feel this is in the end a great film. While the "A" story doesn't really explore the ideas presented extensively, like Tron the construction of the movie, the ideas underpinning it, and its world give it more meat than it appears at first glance.

Fundamentally agree with you on that.

My thinking on this, and I've heard people mention this before, is that it's because Tron is a Science Fantasy film. Like 'great' Science Fiction, it explores the human condition. At the same time, like 'great' Fantasy Fiction, it's equally about constructing a consistent and believable world. What makes it so challenging is that the world it tries to build, and the aspects of human condition that it speaks to, are both high concept and fairly un-explored insofar as mainstream cinema goes. Tron's closest, most-obvious analogue would be the Matrix. But the Matrix, in retrospect, became mired in it own pseudo philosophy and became a parody of itself.

For some reason, on watching it again, the relationship that was established between Sam and Kevin became more touching on repeat viewings. Maybe Sam wasn't the most developed character in the world, but the synergy between father and son resonated with me much more on the third viewing...which I was surprised by.

 

[Scrow]

Anyone that hated in the theater seen it on Blu-ray? I'm curious if I'll hate it as much on repeat viewings. I can't believe it holds up terribly well.

i've seen it 3 times. once at the theater, twice at home. enjoyed it each time.

 

[JakOfTheShadows]

Anyone have a background quality resolution copy of the picture that is used for the XMB image on the PS3 for the Tron: Legacy disc? It is the image of Rezzler (sp?) on his lightcycle in front of the escape hole blown into the lightcycle game grid.

 

[isny]

Anyone have a background quality resolution copy of the picture that is used for the XMB image on the PS3 for the Tron: Legacy disc? It is the image of Rezzler (sp?) on his lightcycle in front of the escape hole blown into the lightcycle game grid.

Took a quick cap from the DVD for ya.



edit: 1920x1080 file

 

[Slacker]

What scene was Pixar involved in?

Finally got around to seeing it tonight. Thought it was ok, but man the visuals were outstanding, even doing Amazon's video on demand thing (720p to my internet-connected HDTV). Sound was awesome too.

Oddly enough, the computer stuff here may be more realistic than in NBC's THE EV3NT.

 

[JakOfTheShadows]

Took a quick cap from the DVD for ya.



edit: 1920x1080 file

Thanks! I really appreciate that.

 

[srst]

What scene was Pixar involved in?

Just some re-shoots. You wouldn't know unless you worked on it.

 

[Winterblink]

My girlfriend and I finally got to see this on the weekend on bluray. Two words: holy fuck.

Loved the original Tron, so this was a joy all around. The bluray's audio and video really are incredible, showing off the movie's visuals and spectacular soundtrack very well. I'm really interested in where they take the story if they ever do a sequel.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yeah, the fight scene in the club is dreadful.

The movie is definitely kinda bad, I mean it's downright incompetent in many areas, but the overall design aesthetic and music was worth the purchase, especially since it was packed with the original Tron. Maybe the Artbook + OST would have sufficed, but oh well. Shame there isn't an isolated score on the Blu-Ray though.

agree 100%.

design and score make it worth purchasing...and I purchased it on those pretenses. Film holds up fine so long as you don't ask any questions or think too hard. It's basically a laser-light show and a showcase for a good picture and sound system. Just so happens that I have both (my 10.4 sound system + 3 amps laughs are you guys puny 5.1/6.1/7.1 systems!), so watching it last night was fun. Still, it felt like little more than a demo piece.

It's funny: It's great for surround-sound demonstration, though I still prefer the speeder bike portion of Return of the Jedi for those purposes. It's simply awesome for that. But TRON's combination of pretty imagery with great music will give it a place in my "tech demo" collection, along with films like Behind Enemy Lines.

 

[commish]

I thought this movie was pretty terrible, mainly because the story/plot was stupid/wasted. I liked the world, though, so I am hoping a sequel delivers where the first fell.

 

[Sqorgar]

Tron's closest, most-obvious analogue would be the Matrix.

I'd say it's Neuromancer and the other cyberpunk books that came out a few years after Tron. Cyberpunk is basically just Tron's computer world in Blade Runner's real world.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Is it my imagination or is the track "Rinzler" from the Tron Soundtrack a remix of the final song from Blade Runner?

and who the hell are these goofballs whining about every stupid little thing in the storyline. "OMG HOW CAN DAFT PUNK BE IN THE GAME GRID THIS MAKES NO SENNSEE!!!"

Go stare at James Cameron's fern gully remake for 3 hours and get bored. I'll keep Tron thanks.

Tron Legacy is like an 80s movie. Behold its awsome glory don't try to nitpick it to death.

 

[Krauser Kat]

oh man i am in awe of this remix album.

 

[Dead]

Fundamentally agree with you on that.

My thinking on this, and I've heard people mention this before, is that it's because Tron is a Science Fantasy film. Like 'great' Science Fiction, it explores the human condition. At the same time, like 'great' Fantasy Fiction, it's equally about constructing a consistent and believable world. What makes it so challenging is that the world it tries to build, and the aspects of human condition that it speaks to, are both high concept and fairly un-explored insofar as mainstream cinema goes. Tron's closest, most-obvious analogue would be the Matrix. But the Matrix, in retrospect, became mired in it own pseudo philosophy and became a parody of itself.

For some reason, on watching it again, the relationship that was established between Sam and Kevin became more touching on repeat viewings. Maybe Sam wasn't the most developed character in the world, but the synergy between father and son resonated with me much more on the third viewing...which I was surprised by.

Yet Tron legacy's closest analogue is...

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions.

Except worse.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Tron Legacy is like an 80s movie. Behold its awsome glory don't try to nitpick it to death.

Eighties movies are a lot better than you're remembering.

 

[demosthenes]

Watched this again over the weekend and I while part of me cringes at its flaws....the rest of the movie just has something that makes me love it.

 

[Warm Machine]

I still don't see the flaws people are seeing in the movie. There is nothing I can see in the acting and the story is pretty tight. There isn't a wasted scene or moment in it and everything sequence feeds the plot and serves a purpose. If you don't like the base concept of programs acting like people this is just not the movie for you.

 

[gsnyder]

I'd say it's Neuromancer and the other cyberpunk books that came out a few years after Tron. Cyberpunk is basically just Tron's computer world in Blade Runner's real world.

Neuromancer is a book. I'm comparing apples to apples here.

Yet Tron legacy's closest analogue is...

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions.

Except worse.

And maybe I should've been clearer for you: When I said 'The Matrix' becomes a parody of itself, I was talking about Reloaded/Revolutions. Those films traded any further examination of the themes set up in the original and went completely off the rails of the concepts and themes established. The sequels took an intelligent premise not really explored in film and cashed it in for a couple of vfx-driven, back-to-back-shot, mindless, style over substance blockbusters.

I know you give full credit to Tron: Legacy's audio/visual design, but how is Tron worse that Reloaded/Revolutions combined? Seriously, no hyperbole.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I am mad my friend is still borrowing this. I had a 9 year old 47" rear projection HDTV and this looked glorious. But I just bought a new 50" plasma this past weekend and REALLY want to watch this again just to drool over the picture.

 

[Dead]

And maybe I should've been clearer for you: When I said 'The Matrix' becomes a parody of itself, I was talking about Reloaded/Revolutions. Those films traded any further examination of the themes set up in the original and went completely off the rails of the concepts and themes established. The sequels took an intelligent premise not really explored in film and cashed it in for a couple of vfx-driven, back-to-back-shot, mindless, style over substance blockbusters.

I know you give full credit to Tron: Legacy's audio/visual design, but how is Tron worse that Reloaded/Revolutions combined? Seriously, no hyperbole.

I dunno, I can't really think of a single area where Legacy is better than either Matrix sequel. They both have pretty much the same problems, but Legacy is just worse in every single aspect. Worse directing (Kosinski is stylistically inert), worse action (MUCH worse), worse use of Music (yeah, Dafts score is great, but Kosinski has no clue whatsoever how to use it), worse script, etc etc.

Maybe the one area where I'd say they are equally bad is in the pacing

I mean, Matrix sequels definitely failed in terms of how it presented the concepts of its screenplays. The movies were also full of fat and were several polishes away from being ready to film. But at the end of the day, I do think the Matrix sequels, as they are, are movies that could have been turned into better products (or product) with better judgement from the Ws. And also there was a very real conceptual foundation for the story, regardless of the final product.

On the other hand, Legacy is some kind of inert failure down to its very foundation. The script doesn't even feel like a script, but rather a series of flash cards with extremely basic "ideas" strung together. And these ideas and concepts aren't even actual ideas or concepts. Its basically a bunch of nothing masquerading as something . Literally nothing means anything in this film, it never feels like ANYBODY ever sat down to even discuss what the movie was about or how to flesh out these concepts and the Grid. I dunno. The film just, utterly fails, it flounders at even the most basics of storytelling, the narrative is nonexistant, the concepts aren't even concepts. Its just empty. The movie means nothing, accomplishes nothing, and there isn't even a hint in the movie that it was ever anything more than a soulless attempt at reviving a long dead brand. To be honest, it feels like a movie that has no reason to exist at all. I never once felt like this movie was the product of someone who wanted to tell/show anything. Its pure nothing...


Matrix Sequels = The kid that had a lot of potential, but was dropped on the head

Tron Legacy = Stillborn

And yes, a recent re-watch of the film on blu-ray soured my opinion of it even more. I wanted to love this film before it came out, you can see my posts being optimistic about it, so its not like I went in wanting to hate it.

 

[Warm Machine]

I cannot disagree more. Especially the "Kosinski is stylistically inert" part which is unfathomable considering the beautiful photography (and I'm not talking effects) and editing on display.

The story does carry weight, the filmaking and storytelling does serve a purpose toward its narrative. It is about the understanding and redemption of a lost and directionless son who thought his father abandoned him. It is also about the regret of a father chasing after his work life and his own selfishness instead of raising his child.

And you can't say Kosinski doesn't know how to use Daft Punk's music. The music is scored to the movie, not the other way around. It would be Daft Punk not using music to support the film in this case which I don't think is true either way.

How is pacing broken in this? Is this a requirement that the film needs to be full tilt the entire time? This is a movie that knows when to have a dialogue scene to establish character and reinforce its own reality. This isn't like The Matrix Reloaded that literally stops the narrative to abuse the audience with pretentious abstration or throw an action sequence at you that has no bearing or advancement of the plot, or worse yet undoes the rules of the previous film.

 

[Dead]

Tron Legacy literally stops to a grinding halt while the characters literally sit down on a train and wait until they get to the movies "climax"

The utterly lifeless action scenes also don't help the pacing, as the whole movie is basically one boring slog until something that actually resembles some form exciting/involving action (The light jets scene)

Maybe Stylistically inert is too strong, but I maintain that Kosinski displays absolutely nothing resembling directing craft in the film.

 

[Warm Machine]

Tron Legacy literally stops to a grinding halt while the characters literally sit down on a train and wait until they get to the movies "climax"

The utterly lifeless action scenes also don't help the pacing, as the whole movie is basically one boring slog until something that actually resembles some form exciting action (The light jets scene)

How can a film stop when the characters and the very vehicle they are on is actively heading toward the end goal they have to achieve? You are talking about a character moment, and one important to the Quorra character's personal motivation for wanting to leave the Grid on her own accord, being a grinding halt in the narrative.

Besides, the I think we are all in the clear so lets wait it out and see until something messes with our plan is pretty basic storytelling. Like Episode IV in the Falcon heading to Alderan and finding it has been destroyed sort of basic.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I don't get the slog comment.

The movie is basically all action except for like three 10 minute scenes that only serve to further the story along.

I don't get the pacing issues either. The movie moved fast when it needed to, and a little slower when it needed to, and all wrapped up quite nicely. It's like saying the first Matrix film had pacing problems because of all the real world and Construct stuff.

 

[Dead]

How can a film stop when the characters and the very vehicle they are on is actively heading toward the end goal they have to achieve? You are talking about a character moment, and one important to the Quorra character's personal motivation for wanting to leave the Grid on her own accord, being a grinding halt in the narrative.

Besides, the I think we are all in the clear so lets wait it out and see until something messes with our plan is pretty basic storytelling. Like Episode IV in the Falcon heading to Alderan and finding it has been destroyed sort of basic.

The scene in Legacy is basically a placeholder pile of nothing stitched together to tie the movie together. Its laziness of the worst kind.

It sticks out in the worst way possible as opposed to the Star Wars scene you mentioned which felt organic to the narrative, there was purpose in the actual travel, through it, the characters are privy to the true evils of the empire

In Legacy the characters are just sitting down waiting for the next bus stop.

But anyways, whatever. That whole scene barely registers in comparison to the movies other failures.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I remember there being quite a few scenes in the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars...

 

[Dead]

Im sure there were.

I haven't watched Star Wars in a while. But what I do know is no scene ever stuck out as being lazily incorporated in order to trasnport characters from point A to point B. It was a whole and proper narrative.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I don't see a difference, I thought the scene fit very well. Maybe it's because the same thing happened at the end of the first Tron.

 

[Dead]

Legacy should have been able to modernize Tron beyond simply the visuals.

With the original Tron, the awkwardness and silliness of the whole thing that we now perceive was at least contextualized through the time of its release. Its still charming.

Legacy doesn't have an excuse for its stupidity. People actually worked to make this thing as wholely empty as it is. Its not like there is an excuse akin to "oh well there was a writers strike" or something.

Man even Pixar did a pass on a part of the script, and even that scene was a complete void.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

There is no stupidity or stillness, don't know where you're getting that from.

 

[Warm Machine]

There is no stupidity or stillness, don't know where you're getting that from.

Yeah I don't get it either. The scene in question is actually hitting the nail on the head and making way for an obvious metaphor at the ending that symbolizes a new dawn. Every scene in the film serves a purpose and pushes the story forward. I can't think of a scene in the film that exists simply to exist. Like good action films, every action sequence has a resolution or event or two within it that moves the plot forward or introduces a new idea.

On the original iI find that it is very well written and performed and holds up incredibly well on the storytelling front. I'd say it has more meat and complication to its story than Legacy does. With both movies, you either buy into people getting pulled into a visualized digital computer world or you don't.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I watched the original right before I went and saw Legacy and I thought it was dated and stilted, and dragged at some parts, but the story was OK. I couldn't really discern any themes, not like Legacy's father/son thing.

 

[DrForester]

Watched Blu-Ray.

One question, and I don't think the movie suffers much for not explaining it, but was there any side story explaining what exactly happened to

Spoiler

Tron, and how he became Rinzler. Did CLU simply reprogram him or did some side project tot he movie go into more detail.

 

[isny]

Watched Blu-Ray.

One question, and I don't think the movie suffers much for not explaining it, but was there any side story explaining what exactly happened to

Spoiler

Tron, and how he became Rinzler. Did CLU simply reprogram him or did some side project tot he movie go into more detail.

Tron Uprising (The Cartoon) will explain this I'd assume. (As it's set in between Tron and Tron Legacy and features Tron as a main character)

 

[Lerozz]

Was not explained in the game "Tron Evolution". One could only "witness" the same fight as seen in the movie.

Would also like to know more about it as Tron is quite the badass program.

 

[KoolKing]

For any of the other hardcore Tron geeks here, just thought you might be interested to know that the Disney Second Screen app for the iPad has tons of high quality images of props, storyboards, early CGI renders, behind the scenes shots, etc. You can just download the app and use WinRAR or equivalent to uncompress it. It seems to store some videos or 360 degree shots in individual images as there are almost 19,000 files in there.

Space Paranoids poster
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/TheKoolKing/IS_2420_02.jpg

1555x768 movie poster that's great for a widescreen wallpaper
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/TheKoolKing/IS_1050_01.jpg

 

[JdFoX187]

Watched Blu-Ray.

One question, and I don't think the movie suffers much for not explaining it, but was there any side story explaining what exactly happened to

Spoiler

Tron, and how he became Rinzler. Did CLU simply reprogram him or did some side project tot he movie go into more detail.

Spoiler

It's hinted heavily that CLU just reprogrammed him in a similar way that Flynn reprogrammed the sentry when he stole the light jet. Flynn said in the movie something along the lines of "CLU can't create new programs, he can just repurpose them or destroy them. That's how he was building his army, and how he changed TRON.

 

[Nick Laslett]

I have just had my 2nd viewing of Tron Legacy after seeing it at the cinema and now watched on blu-ray. I'm liking it more with each viewing and hope Tron Returns actually gets made.

I was lucky enough to see the original at the cinema when it was first released and my 10 year old friends and I were sure that it was better than Star Wars. Lego was the perfect material for crafting the Recogniser and the hopscotch squares in the school playground were configured so that we could play discs of tron using a football. In the arcades I preferred the Discs of Tron cabinet over the complilation collection of the main game.

My 10 year old love of Tron did not translate into a life long love of the franchise, I don't recall seeing the film again, although I must have seen the video or on TV. The PC game passed me by and even the news of the sequel didn't reach me until posters appeared at the cinema.

I was quite taken aback by how much I enjoyed the new film, especially with the critical bashing it received in the lead up to release. I am a huge fan of Lost and the fact that Legacy comes from one of the writing teams, meant that I gave the film more thought than I might. I like the back story and feel like a lot of Legacy was necessary to set-up Tron Returns, it is perverse that the titular character should have so little presence, but I hope the gamble was worth it. Another nice consequence of enjoying Tron Legacy was the introduction to Daft Punk and their magnificent soundtrack for the film.

There are so many empty headed mindless films out there that it is a shame when something like Tron Legacy receives so many mean spirited reviews. The film has many flaws, in design and execution, but it is about something, it has ideas and it displays some imagination

 

[Ovid]

Wow, the original Tron is being played on cable today. Showtime Extreme to be exact. Can't remember the last time that happened...and it's in HD!!!

Always wanted to see the original.

 

[Ermac]

uhh. yeah. The whole thing's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUb2mAUggW4

 

[Dreams-Visions]

uhh. yeah. The whole thing's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUb2mAUggW4

LOL, WTF

 

[ThatObviousUser]

uhh. yeah. The whole thing's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUb2mAUggW4

ContentID fail.

Or maybe they're totally cool with it. Who knows.

 

[layzie1989]

not enough lol smilies in the world

 

[isny]

ContentID fail.

Or maybe they're totally cool with it. Who knows.

Disney? I don't think so. It's probably just someone failing horribly at their job, lol

 

[Ermac]

The Lion King was up for the past few days too, had like 100k views. I think it's gone though.

 

[Miggytronz]

The Lion King was up for the past few days too, had like 100k views. I think it's gone though.

damn i would of watched that.

 

[metsallica]

ContentID fail.

Or maybe they're totally cool with it. Who knows.

If by they're cool with it you mean their lawyers haven't woken up yet, then agreed.