Garrett 2U
Member
Why are employees of a corporation being subjugated the the rules of a religious organization?
How is this not considered discrimination?
How is this not considered discrimination?
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Trump Guts Requirement That Employer Health Plans Pay For Birth Control
- Thread starter Oersted
- Start date
Mattlikewhoa
Member
It's like they are trying to roll back time...
Bit from NBC News: Trump Just Made It So Employers Can Refuse to Pay for Birth Control
And:
It's cool that religious fundies have a greater influence in legislation than medical professionals. #MAGA
And:
Schumer calls Trump's birth control mandate "outrageous": "This decision drags the country backwards."
Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) Oct 6, 2017
Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) Oct 6, 2017
Reckless Abandon
Member
It's too bad people can't just be smart and responsible about sex and contraception. If they could this wouldn't be an issue.
That being said, insurance should cover it is if a woman has abnormally painful or dangerous periods that can be controlled or mitigated by taking birth control. But other than that the average person should be responsible enough to avoid pregnancy if they aren't trying to have children. Condoms, IUDs, oral/anal...there are other options to enjoy sex without impregnating someone inadvertently that don't give insurance companies reasons to raise premiums for those that pay into healthcare.
edit: Well after reading the post above I can kind of see the point of the outrage. But I still feel like people who choose to engage in intercourse should shoulder the responsibility to pay for their own contraception. If you can't, then don't have intercourse. Just like if you can't pay for a car/gas/insurance/maintenance, don't drive a car.
That being said, insurance should cover it is if a woman has abnormally painful or dangerous periods that can be controlled or mitigated by taking birth control. But other than that the average person should be responsible enough to avoid pregnancy if they aren't trying to have children. Condoms, IUDs, oral/anal...there are other options to enjoy sex without impregnating someone inadvertently that don't give insurance companies reasons to raise premiums for those that pay into healthcare.
edit: Well after reading the post above I can kind of see the point of the outrage. But I still feel like people who choose to engage in intercourse should shoulder the responsibility to pay for their own contraception. If you can't, then don't have intercourse. Just like if you can't pay for a car/gas/insurance/maintenance, don't drive a car.
n00bsauce87
Member
Will not and must not forget, ever
ChrisInCali
Member
100% fuck Trump.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
not that that isn't a thing but i'm pretty sure a substantial chunk of that 53% don't identify as feminists or even approve of feminism. being a woman doesn't exempt you from having regressive-ass views on gender and sexuality.
**** gross. "religious liberty" my ass.
You are right: not all women are feminists.
I think a lot of people--GAF in partucular--undermine not just how fiercely theocrats resist sexual liberalism, but also why.
I'll agree that they're not the majority if these women affected by these actions because they represent the kind of women well beyond childbearing years or they are married and do not have to worry about being a single mother, and similar scenarios.
But they are a majority nevertheless, so the work that has to be done to shift the balance isn't work that men or women of color can do. White women specifically need to get it together
There's no reason to exclude birth control from insurance coverage. The logic you cite above could be used to deny multiple forms of coverage. If you can't afford to have cancer, don't smoke. If you can't afford diabetes medication, you should have had a better diet. If you can't afford a broken bone, you shouldn't have been so active. It says something, that we choose to deny coverage only to women who choose to have sex.
Skellig Gra
Member
That dude probably has no idea how much having a baby costs the medical system. Remember my abortion thread which started cause my co-worker had a premie? His medical bills are at 1.3 million now. Or you know we could just give out free birth control.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Because, apparently, you're "lucky" to have a shitty, low paying job and you deserve to feel the continuous yoke of your benevolent benefactor as they intrude into your personal life.
Because remember, the GOP likes less government in everything, unless it's civil liberties and especially a woman's body.
This is stupid and should be impossible. Birth control medication has very wide use outside of actual birth control.
A large portion of women I know use it for other female health needs. This is absurd.
Will surgery become the only treatment for ovarian cysts now?
Ridiculous. Who the fuck has a problem with birth control....
A large portion of women I know use it for other female health needs. This is absurd.
Will surgery become the only treatment for ovarian cysts now?
Ridiculous. Who the fuck has a problem with birth control....
Paul Ryan talking about Constituional erosion makes my blood boil. Look to our President and his whole camp, you fucking asshole. The erosion is there!
But oh wait, lets sling more shit at Obama because we have no other justifications...
Seriously, these are the worst fucking people in power. And they get more evil by the day.
But oh wait, lets sling more shit at Obama because we have no other justifications...
Seriously, these are the worst fucking people in power. And they get more evil by the day.
So your point in posting is...to remind the white women on Neogaf that it's all up to us to fix this? Well, I'll keep working on that, but without some help from men it doesn't look good and reminding the liberal men on Neogaf that the majority of white women voted for this, probably isn't going to help in any efforts to obtain sympathy and cooperation.
hammysaurusrex
Member
So how are you going to do this? Have a policing unit that investigates if women are using birth control for approved purposes?
This is one of those really weird Republican paradoxes. Enthralled with concept of both limiting government spending and presence, but perfectly willing to introduce inefficiencies into a system solely for the purpose of punishing poor people. See: Welfare drug screening.
It's much simpler to just provide women with women's health care and trust their personal and physician's judgment.
edit: Also, it's fascinating you list IUDs as an alternative. You realize IUDs *the* forms of birth control that started triggered this political battle, right?
ResidentWeevil13
Member
My religion teaches me that 'tho shalt not kill.' As a result I am morally opposed to murder, and as such cannot support anyone who takes another human life.
The fact that I have to pay taxes that support the US military, who continually kill innocent civilians in drone bomb attacks is an infringement on my religious freedom and hinders my ability to live out my faith.
As such, I have decided to stop paying my taxes until such time that the US stops murdering innocent civilians.
Oh, I can't do that? Then why the fuck can a corporation do it.
The fact that I have to pay taxes that support the US military, who continually kill innocent civilians in drone bomb attacks is an infringement on my religious freedom and hinders my ability to live out my faith.
As such, I have decided to stop paying my taxes until such time that the US stops murdering innocent civilians.
Oh, I can't do that? Then why the fuck can a corporation do it.
Confused101
Member
My girlfriend did the exact same thing because she knew it was coming as well.
Fuck these assholes.
ImaLemming
Member
Nah, that's a man's pill, so the GOP does care about it.
Religion...hmm.
...I would be fairly willing to stake my life on the fact that Trump can't name 5 books from the holy bible...fuck, name 3, that aren't "2 Corinthians."
I was raised Roman Catholic. ...Never believed a word of it. However, there are several "Commandments" that I stand by. Not because of a Catholic upbringing, but just because I understand that violating these makes you an immoral person.
Trump....however....
Adultery: Violated
Stealing: Violated (not paying people for their work is stealing)
Coveting thy neighbor's wife: Violated (he wants to fuck Kushner's wife, i.e., his daughter)
Killing: ...Well let's just see what phony war he gets us into.
He is an awful person, and he has the moral fiber of a chocolate eclair.
...I would be fairly willing to stake my life on the fact that Trump can't name 5 books from the holy bible...fuck, name 3, that aren't "2 Corinthians."
I was raised Roman Catholic. ...Never believed a word of it. However, there are several "Commandments" that I stand by. Not because of a Catholic upbringing, but just because I understand that violating these makes you an immoral person.
Trump....however....
Adultery: Violated
Stealing: Violated (not paying people for their work is stealing)
Coveting thy neighbor's wife: Violated (he wants to fuck Kushner's wife, i.e., his daughter)
Killing: ...Well let's just see what phony war he gets us into.
He is an awful person, and he has the moral fiber of a chocolate eclair.
Shameless rip from John Mulaney, but I admitted it and cited it...therefore I didn't steal it.
Trickster
Member
I'll be honest, I have never understood why exactly your workplace should pay for this? I live in Denmark and at the risk of making myself look like a moron, I'm pretty sure this is not something our workplaces cover for either men or women in any way. At least I've never heard about it
No no, the government is rolling back requirements and is getting its nose out of women's bodies by doing so. If private entities tell you how to run your life, that's fine; it's the free-market at work and it is how it should be. In Mammon We Trust.
Does your workplace provide your health insurance? That covers various medical conditions, drugs and such?
Trickster
Member
That stuff happens through our taxes, so no
Reckless Abandon
Member
If you mean me I actually I do have an idea of how much it costs as I have an eight year old son and have paid all of the necessary costs medical and otherwise since before he was born. Though I cannot begin to imagine the hardship your co-worker went/is going through with a premature child I am well aware of the financial responsibility it takes to raise a kid.
I want to tread lightly here because of the example you cited, and I'm still not exactly sure why it went there, but if I'm understanding your reasoning for bringing it up I'll just say that making responsible sexual decisions regarding contraception or alternatives to intercourse would have worked the same as birth control. But no one can know they are having a premature baby at contraception so I'm not sure why that was brought up.
All I'm saying is that sexual responsibility - and the education necessary to foster it - seems to me to be a more cost-effective way for the public as a whole to combat unwanted pregnancies than having insurance companies just provide free birth control to people who could pay for it themselves if they truly feel that it is necessary to have it. Again, unless there is a health-related reason for them to have it.
Most people in America get ALL their health needs covered by employer insurance. This was closing a loophole where something that many people have a medical need for was not being covered. The loophole is now back.
It's because, in the United States, employers subsidize ALL of our health care. There is no universal health care here. Either your employer provides coverage or you don't get it at all and have to pay the full cost yourself (for the majority).
Your workplace doesn't "pay" for it.
It's probably pretty hard to wrap your mind around our system because you have government provided universal healthcare and we don't. People in this country have to get health insurance through their job as a "benefit" of working. So their job works with insurance providers to offer coverage to those that work there.
Now, the insurance companies largely do want to provide contraception, because it's cheaper than the other effects. Companies can now claim though that they're religious and they don't want the insurance companies doing that. So, if you're a woman you now have to pay for it even though your insurance company wants to provide that to you, and you want it, but your fucking boss doesn't want you to have it.
It's a weird system, but realistically this is like your boss saying you can't use your money to buy porn. It's not a decision that should be up to him at all. It's your benefit. And the government mandating that insurance companies have to provide that shouldn't break anyone's religious liberty at all. They're funding contraception just as much as they're funding fucking anything their employee does with their money after they get it. It's a silly idea and I don't know why we as a country even pay it credence.
But yeah back to the original point. Unlike Denmark the way we get healthcare makes no fucking sense. We created some weird system where you basically need a job to get connected with decent insurance. We stick with that system because it means employers have a lot more leverage on their employees.
Skellig Gra
Member
Sexual responsibility is obviously the ideal but it's not realistic. Free Birth control makes great business sense if nothing else. Unwanted pregnancies are a burden on the health care system (example of 1.3 million for one baby). Just like preventative care being free makes lots of sense. It's cheaper to treat something caught immediately versus 10 years too late.
Master Yoshi
Member
God fucking damn it.
People are literally paying the same price as everyone else for less coverage. It's more expensive to offer a custom plan for a religious company than it is for them to be on a generic one. Once again, these are employees paying for the goddamn coverage in the first place. They ARE being responsible.
All of these companies that want to exempt contraception have no issue paying for viagra pills, either.
Being on birth control IS sexual responsibility. You cannot limit access to birth control and hope to increase "sexual responsibility." It's being responsible in the same way it's responsible to take medication to lower your cholesterol, because you chose to eat a ton of fried food your whole life, which, by the way, insurance also covers and no one questions!
Edit: I'm married and in a stable relationship. Birth control is how my husband and I CHOSE when to have our child and it's how we'll avoid having another, unless we're sure we can afford two. This is responsibility.
Queen Vulpix
Member
Ill just repeat my post from the duplicate thread here.
I Would gladly pay for my own birth control if it meant these disgusting crusty old MEN were banned from ever being allowed to pass laws/etc.. limiting women reproductive health care and other issues ever again...
Im so sick of religion being used as a tool to pass laws make people live in the Middle Ages. So much for seperation of church and state...
Sorry for not having a penis -Rolls eyes-
I Would gladly pay for my own birth control if it meant these disgusting crusty old MEN were banned from ever being allowed to pass laws/etc.. limiting women reproductive health care and other issues ever again...
Im so sick of religion being used as a tool to pass laws make people live in the Middle Ages. So much for seperation of church and state...
Sorry for not having a penis -Rolls eyes-
Takamura-San
Member
My ex used BC to be able to control her cycle, and helped with the cramps/pain. There are health reasons outside of not having kids that women is BC. This is all driven by religious oppression, and old men not having a fucking clue about how things work.
WiiredShawn
Member
It never ceases to amaze me, the extent to which Christians in this country get played like fiddles by the rich and powerful. Religion is just another tool for them to enact the oppression that is foundational to America's power structures. This is just another example.
I feel like about 3/4 of the women I dated took BC primarily for effects other than actual birth control.
Trickster
Member
To my knowledge, contraceptives are not something you can get through the normal healthcare system here in Denmark. If it is, I've literally never heard about it. I just did some quick googling, and the best I could find was that some districts (dunno english word) offered it. But to my knowledge, it's normally something people have to buy themselves.
So for me, the whole issue seems pretty weird. Here the mindset is pretty much that if you wanna have sex and not get pregnant, you gotta buy the contraceptives. That's always made sense and seemed quite logical to me
Well, that sounds pretty dumb and I would have expected more from Denmark. At least in Denmark, I assume prenatal care is covered? The birth of the child is covered? Is there access to abortion? Is there subsidized day care? Is maternity leave covered and paid?
I think it makes sense and is better for everyone if birth control is covered and easily accessible, but I'd gladly trade paying for my own birth control in exchange for all the above, for all women (and men in the case of paid paternity leave).
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
What did the bible say about ED treatment? Because for some reason that seems to be covered always.
Aside from the fact that I'm sure a lot of shit is covered differently in Denmark and so it's a hard comparison to make when talking about a country like the US where having a baby can possibly nearly bankrupt you here....
Birth control pills aren't just used for birth control.
Seriously, I think women and men who know this need to keep repeating it over and over again. Birth control pills ARE NOT just used for birth control. They are a needed part of life for a lot of women. I've met women that would probably not be able to hold down a job because they'd be practically incapacitated for a few days every month, their periods are that bad. Birth control keeps that in check. Some women use them for hormones. There are a lot of reasons between a woman and her doctor on why they should use birth control and literally none of those should be dictated by some bullshit religion of their boss.
Trickster
Member
Yeah of course everything else is covered excellently. I think you get like 9 or 12 months of paid maternity leave along with everything else
But yeah this one thing with contraceptives is to my knowledge not covered on a national level
Edit - RDeamers post makes it lot clearer why this is bad.
And just to clarify, stuff like that I would assume is easily grounds for going to your doctor and have them prescribe whatever is needed
Reckless Abandon
Member
I just kind of figured it would be easy to verify via a prescription from a licensed doctor that it was used for a health-related reason.
Not sure how what I suggested would punish poor people, and I'm not trying to advance some Republican agenda by doing so...at all.
After reading yours and Duo's post I do agree with the simplicity factor and that what I was suggesting (education/responsibility vs. the free pill) is most likely unobtainable. People are going to keep doing what they are doing anyways, so the costs saved by providing free birth control as opposed to dealing with expensive unplanned pregnancies makes sense.
I didn't know that about IUDs. I know two women who have them and they both paid out of pocket for them, so I didn't know they were a part of this particular topic.
I do see your point here now. Well stated. If my overall goal is to keep healthcare costs down then providing free birth control is probably less expensive than hoping people will get educated and start being responsible for their own contraception, and then when they don't, having to pay for unplanned pregnancies.
edit: I certainly wasn't trying to rile anyone up with this. I was just thinking with my admittedly simple mind. The thought was simply this: If I and my SO want to have unprotected sex without the risk of an unplanned pregnancy, then the cost of our contraceptive (pills, condoms, etc.) should be on us, not Joe Taxpayer (or Joe Healthcare-premium-payer). I wouldn't expect someone else to pay for our bc pills just because we want to have that good feelin' condom-less sex without the risk of pregnancy.
Lol the need to cite the joke amuses me to no end.
They don't want less abortions, they want to punish people for having sex, or at least their base does.
innervision961
Member
Are we marching on Washington yet?
lyrick
Member
No time, we have to start applying for second (or third ) jobs to get ahead of the future personal costs of unplanned pregnancies.
Yeah, the context in the United States is a lot different. To summarize Trump's actions so far:
- Appointed a pro-life Supreme Court Justice.
- Proposed removing the classification of maternity care as "essential," which would permit health insurers to remove this coverage from regular plans;
- Signed legislation which permits states to withhold federal funding to women's health services that also provide abortions (i.e. Planned Parenthood);
- Proposed a 20 week ban on abortion which would prevent women from aborting fetuses which are no longer viable or suffer from severe birth defects; and
- Removed the requirement for health plans to pay for birth control.
So, it's really a massive push to limit access to maternity care, access to abortion and now access to birth control. (Also, there is no mandatory paid maternity or paternity leave in the U.S.).
Haha I give credit where it's due, man...and John Mulaney is funny as hell, so he deserves the cred. I am not creative enough to come up with that.
Thank you, Keri, for saying what I wanted to say to this post, without a myriad of expletives.