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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One

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Salmonbottle

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Jan 11, 2011
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What if they just release it extremely supply-constrained and push the narrative that it's so hard to find because it's the "must have" gadget of the season. People lining up outside Best Buy every morning seemed like good marketing for the Wii.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Nov 30, 2011
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Wouldn't it be more fitting if the title was:

"RUMOR: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One, downclocking CPU/GPU"

instead of

"RUMOR: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One, downclocking CPU"
 

BRocknRolla

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Feb 7, 2013
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Madison
Thanks for the title change! Much more descriptive now.

Gemüsepizza;61422665 said:
Wouldn't it be more fitting if the title was:

"RUMOR: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One, downclocking CPU/GPU"

instead of

""RUMOR: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One, downclocking CPU"
Is that indeed more accurate? Someone who knows more than me about this architecture should say. My suggestion was just based on the conversation in this thread.


CAN ANY MOD REMOVE "downclocking CPU" from the thread name? CPU has nothing to do with ESRAM, GPU does.
EDIT: Looks like that is what people are saying. So should it say GPU rather than CPU? The point is only to indicate both rumors rather than just the one. Sorry Chubigans, nobody pointed that out to me before now.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Dec 9, 2006
35,046
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CAN ANY MOD REMOVE "downclocking CPU" from the thread name? CPU has nothing to do with ESRAM, GPU does.
 

BigDug13

Member
Dec 20, 2006
20,191
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What's tragic about it? If the thing sells and people like the games, I don't see much in the realm of tragic.
If their anti-consumer practices and non-gaming focus with inferior hardware specs become the recipe for success in this industry, that is absolutely tragic.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Sep 14, 2010
7,511
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1. The costs due to yield issues will be much less compared to cost to restore brand image + exclusivity contracts due to a late launch. MS will make 1-2M consoles for the holiday season at great loss and they'll all sell out, the next batch will come months later, generating demand for the console.

2. Maybe MS can use the harvested dies with a Windows 8 AIO Touchscreen PC and recoup some costs that way? Call it the Surface Desktop. Don't know if this will make financial sense.
 

eXite

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Apr 3, 2013
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What's tragic about it? If the thing sells and people like the games, I don't see much in the realm of tragic.
Well, it's a shame that Microsoft tries to blind us. 5 Million Transistors ... Typical PR-nonsense! It's like 16bit-war and Genesis does, what Nintendon't.

That's what I call
Rocket Science!

Btw: I do notice a difference between 900p and 1080p. Maybe not all gamers do,but I do. Besides it matters what they ( the industry in general) tries to sell us. How many games of this so called HD-era are truly HD? Cod, GTAIV are sub-720p, just to name a few. It's happening again with the nextgen. True HD! Well was the last not "true" ? Hmm?

I guess the consumers should be lucky in the eyes of MS and Sony, if we get native 720p/60fps games.

E3 will be very interesting
 

RayMaker

Banned
Dec 25, 2012
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MS have not even given out the clockspeeds to begin with

So this 800-900gflop rumor is only true if the GPU was originally clocked at 800mhz, for all we know it could of been clocked higher!

Unlike sony we still dont have official clock speeds for the X1
 

DeFiBkIlLeR

Banned
Dec 27, 2010
1,435
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Only wasted if PS4 stands up as superior on more then paper. Still haven't gotten to the all important "games" portion yet.

Next week should answer some of those questions.
Lol...why do people keep clinging to E3, haven't you guys got it?.....this is not a gaming console, it's a set top media box that happens to play games...big difference.

I couldn't care less what games they reveal at E3, it's all the other bullshit that comes with this box that's putting people off.

If the May reveal didn't make that clear to you, nothing will.
 

Drek

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Jun 10, 2004
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Waiting for a respin would be a poor idea, and waiting for magical process improvements is a worse one. Either they take the pain or they downclock. It is, for once, a black and white choice.
Its not perfectly black and white though. What about extended use failure rates? If they're missing yields wouldn't this also strongly imply that the 6 month, 12 month, 18 month, etc. failure rates they've been projecting are likely impacted?

If they thought (hypothetically) that 25% of the silicon would fail on the factory floor and another 5% after extended use, but now find that 40% are failing on the factory floor what does that say about the extended use modelling?

Not downclocking sounds like it has potential to ship out a bunch of time bombs waiting to overheat.
 

commedieu

Banned
Jan 10, 2009
27,382
1
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What if they just release it extremely supply-constrained and push the narrative that it's just the "must have" gadget of the season. People lining up outside Best Buy every morning seemed like good marketing for the Wii.
it's going to work for the handful of white knights on gaf, in north america, that watches live tv. I think we all know ms can sell this to americans, they sold kinect. however it's sad how they treat the demographic that solidified their game division.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Dec 9, 2012
3,998
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420
so if rare released a new banjo on xbone, i would look worse than the n64 ones?...
EDIT: i was not serious...
 

Drek

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Jun 10, 2004
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CAN ANY MOD REMOVE "downclocking CPU" from the thread name? CPU has nothing to do with ESRAM, GPU does.
Its a single APU. If the problem is heat related they might find a voltage reduction as the simplest method and that would reduce performance for all aspects of the APU.
 
Sep 15, 2011
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MS have not even given out the clockspeeds to begin with

So this 800-900gflop rumor is only true if the GPU was originally clocked at 800mhz, for all we know it could of been clocked higher!

Unlike sony we still dont have official clock speeds for the X1
Which lends credence to this entire thread.
 

1-D_FTW

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Jun 14, 2006
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1. The costs due to yield issues will be much less compared to cost to restore brand image + exclusivity contracts due to a late launch. MS will make 1-2M consoles for the holiday season at great loss and they'll all sell out, the next batch will come months later, generating demand for the console.

2. Maybe MS can use the harvested dies with a Windows 8 AIO Touchscreen PC and recoup some costs that way? Call it the Surface Desktop. Don't know if this will make financial sense.
100 watts just for the silicon would seem really high. Unless they really undervolted it (which has limits), not sure how you'd cool it with that form factor.

I have a question? Do companies like MS and Sony have finalization's of the console done by now and are starting reproduction? Im not very knowledgeable. Just curious. Thanks
Specs are kind of a made up concept. You design a piece of silicon and hardware yields dictate clock speeds. The better the design/yield, the higher you can clock things. If the design doesn't live up to expectations, you have to lower voltage/clock speeds to get yields into an acceptable range. Yield quality is ultimately what determines what a card is clocked at.
 

crazy buttocks on a train

quite possibly the greatest username
Oct 21, 2004
126
164
955
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
16,946
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so if rare released a new banjo on xbone, i would look worse than the n64 ones?...
If "does not look worse than on its predecessor" is your only requirement for a new gaming console, then you are quite easly satisfiable.
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Dec 17, 2007
2,280
178
1,035
Its not perfectly black and white though. What about extended use failure rates? If they're missing yields wouldn't this also strongly imply that the 6 month, 12 month, 18 month, etc. failure rates they've been projecting are likely impacted?

If they thought (hypothetically) that 25% of the silicon would fail on the factory floor and another 5% after extended use, but now find that 40% are failing on the factory floor what does that say about the extended use modelling?

Not downclocking sounds like it has potential to ship out a bunch of time bombs waiting to overheat.
Low yield won't affect the heat given off by the chips that do meet spec.
 
Jan 20, 2010
16,696
27
765
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
CBOAT in the house.

Guess it's confirmed then
 

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Jan 21, 2011
14,540
6
0
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
:O
 

badcrumble

Member
May 12, 2006
26,793
5
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ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
!
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Aug 1, 2012
9,142
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510
Yeah, no one really noticed the Skyrim issues on PS3 outside of GAF!
To be honest, I'm not sure how well versed the general public is.

I'd expect the average forum goer to be much more well informed compared to the public joe, who probably doesn't have any idea what framerates, resolution, AA and the such mean.
 

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Jun 7, 2010
19,181
0
0
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
He has spoken.

I was able to parse most of that except this part:

"tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW."

Anyone?
 

Nikodemos

Member
May 25, 2013
8,349
89
510
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
"Dat 8 GB GDDR5."



It's probably one of the few instances when saying it actually makes sense.
 

AgentP

Member
Jun 5, 2011
7,071
1,035
775
MS have not even given out the clockspeeds to begin with

So this 800-900gflop rumor is only true if the GPU was originally clocked at 800mhz, for all we know it could of been clocked higher!

Unlike sony we still dont have official clock speeds for the X1
The clock rates were from the leaks. So you would have to believe they published their target specs, raised them in secret and then lowered them again in secret.

Sony did not release clock rates, they released the total FLOPS, which then lets you calculate the clock rate given the architecture.
 

FlutterPuffs

Member
Apr 6, 2011
11,017
0
640
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
Buttocks has spoken.

Seriously though man, are you alright? Genuinely concerned here.
 

Donnie

Member
Mar 24, 2005
2,858
18
1,265
CAN ANY MOD REMOVE "downclocking CPU" from the thread name? CPU has nothing to do with ESRAM, GPU does.
Well both the CPU and GPU are on the same APU so downclocking that APU can effect the speed of both parts. My understanding is the APU runs at 800Mhz with the GPU on a 1x multiplier and the CPU a 2x multiplier (1.6Ghz). Down clocking the APU to 600Mhz would in turn drop the CPU to 1.2Ghz, or down clocking to 700Mhz would give you a 1.4Ghz CPU speed. There could be the option of changing the CPU's multiplier, but I don't see a multiplier that could counter act the frequency reduction without effectively overclocking the CPU past its intended 1.6Ghz.

But yeah the title still shouldn't say CPU, but APU instead.
 

Pug

Member
Jun 8, 2004
2,168
63
1,495
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MS have not even given out the clockspeeds to begin with

So this 800-900gflop rumor is only true if the GPU was originally clocked at 800mhz, for all we know it could of been clocked higher!

Unlike sony we still dont have official clock speeds for the X1
so if the click speed was 800, never confirmed by MS. What will the clock speed be if the flop rating be if its a rather vague 800-900 flops? First up MS wont release clock speeds so unless a developer wants to break an NDA, this will be forever a rumour. As was is the rumour that the clock on the PS3 was dropped from 550 to 500, before launch.
 

spuit*11

Banned
Dec 5, 2008
563
0
0
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
Boom, there it is.
 

USC-fan

Banned
Oct 9, 2005
7,115
1
1,235
ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
Wow! just fucking EPIC!

yoda has spoken. xbone is wiiu 2.0
 

Neo C.

Member
Mar 2, 2007
7,878
0
0
That really bad if true... the cost for the Xbone's APU will be a lot expensive compared to the PS4's APU.

Xbone's APU = complex / big
PS4's APU = simple / small

How can the scenario changed so much from the last gen? MS created the new Cell.
What gamers often misunderstand is the fact that consoles aren't made with cutting edge tech but with an affordable price point in mind. It's all about compromises and tough choices for both engineers and CEOs. Sometimes they do a good job and are lucky with the outcome, sometimes things don't turn out as expected and they get louder, hotter, bigger, more complicated, pricier or all at once.

All three companies made some hardware bets, and this time it looks like MS has drawn the loser. It happens.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I have a question? Do companies like MS and Sony have finalization's of the console done by now and are starting reproduction? Im not very knowledgeable. Just curious. Thanks
Sony appears to be production ready. The HW and case are finalized and small batch preproduction is reported to be going on with no issues. Full scale production will likely follow in July. The fact that they were able to guarantee a 2013 release in Europe after not doing that in Feb shows they are confident in their positioning on manufacture. In theory they might be able to launch in the US as early as Sep. In practice that's not going to happen because the games won't be ready.
 

dragonelite

Member
Mar 9, 2010
12,132
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ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.
So speaks the crazy buttocks..
 
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