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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One

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Pemalite

Neo Member
TheD, there is so much more to compute performance than how much Gflops you can achieve, integer is a very important part of the equation too for instance.

Also, didn't Microsoft start the production of chips for the Xbox 360 90 days or something before launch?
They have a much larger window this time around, so they should be able to stockpile chips and fix the yield issues far before then for the Xbox One.
 

abic

Banned
Yes he said he was so confident in his source he could be banned if wrong. However, he did ask for mercy from the court if he is wrong, but GAF doesnt really work that way..

An account ban is an account ban, you don't weasel out of it.

He tried to invalidate inside information from some of our most trusted posters and made it seem like the source he had was Microsoft.
 

Colby

Member
No it would not!

The CPU is much faster and the GPU is around the same.

Any difference is not going to be 3x in the xbone's favour!

You both are saying very different things. Considering what I can do on my rig, 3x that power would be wonderful. Does console optimization really account for that much of a difference?
 

phunky420

Banned
Some great down to earth statements there.

The only thing I differ in is that money will help Microsoft win. that and the DLC first for COD.

Make no mistake, in this day and age, advertising seems to work extremely well, especially with the type of gamer that the Xbone seems to be targeted at!

I agree with everyone that you said except the Xbone part. From now on i'm going to refer to the PS4 as Playstationshitty 4....see how that works? I can also add a derogatory term to a platform I don't like.
 

PhatSaqs

Banned
That's nowhere near the same as Activision going to e3 and never talking about a PS4 version of COD.

Actually it was much worse. Ubisoft flat out refused to acknowledge any other version of AC for months even after E3 due to that Sony cash.
Point is, these companies slangin money to put themselves in good light is nothing new.
 

jaypah

Member
So Xbone:

- Doesn't have exclusives
- Will offer much inferior multiplatform games, PS4's GPU was already 50% faster, down clocking further is just sad, very sad.
- Charges for Live
- Doesn't give a shit about their customers forcing whatever policy they want

GG M$, Xbone will lose harder in the next gen consoles war than the original Xbox did to PS2.

I thought they had at least some exclusives? They cancelled all 15 of them? I said "damn".
 

Durante

Member
You both are saying very different things. Considering what I can do on my rig, 3x that power would be wonderful. Does console optimization really account for that much of a difference?
No. Even if you consider the top-end assumption of ~2x better performance utilization due to a closed platform, your CPU is up to par. In terms of GPU, its slightly higher performance on paper than XB1's, but in practice the latter probably performs significantly better. A factor 3 difference is entirely fictional though.
 

astraycat

Member
I agree with everyone that you said except the Xbone part. From now on i'm going to refer to the PS4 as Playstationshitty 4....see how that works? I can also add a derogatory term to a platform I don't like.

Just because you choose to read Xbone as X bone and not Xb one doesn't mean we must!
 

Fi Fo Nye

Banned
If Senjutsu is so content with the Xbox One not being the strongest in performance because nobody will notice the difference, why did he even make a ban bet on the Xbox One's GPU not being downclocked in order to increase yield?
 
I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.

● The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
● Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
● A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
● Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
● Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
● ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
● ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
● ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
● A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
● Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
● Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
● And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
● And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
● On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
● Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
● One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.

Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:

● And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)


DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.


The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.

The proof is in the pudding. Holy goddamn fuck

pic_major_nelson.jpg


Well that's one way to launch a console...
 
My point is that while Nintendo have missed out on a big head start so far the system is far from finished at this point. Their software doesn't just become unattractive the moment Sony and MS release their consoles.

You're missing the point here. The N64 and the GC proved beyond a doubt that nintendo first party titles cannot carry a console on their own. mario, zelda, pikmin, metroid, smash brothers etc were all there, and those systems were obliterated by weaker consoles with better support. Worse, Nintendo is going through growing pains with HD development that everyone else got out of their system years ago and literally cannot crank out games even at the rate they were back then.

To be viable, Nintendo needs either 1.) strong third party support or 2.) to bring in a new audience outside of the core gaming demographic as they did with the Wii.

Unfortunately, they've designed a system that makes 1.) literally impossible, and 2.) is a gamble that did not pay off- Tablet prices have dropped like a rock, Tablets are no longer novel, and nintendo cannot compete with $129 kindle fires for the attention of the casual audience. Naming the WiiU so close to it's predecessor and causing branding confusion is also not helping.

As it is, Nintendo is tracking at numbers worse than the Gamecube when it launched, and THAT system was going up against the strongest home console of all time. The WiiU is the strongest console on the market, and is about the be buried by Microsoft's billion dollar marketing budget for the XBONE- and that's not even counting Sony. Nintendo lost the core gaming audience with the Wii, and has no chance of even gaining the attention of the casual market against the PS4 and XBONE. They have neither the games, nor the hype, nor the marketing budget.

Nintendo dropped the price of 3DS, but that also coincided with the release of key titles shortly after and that's what's been pushing the system ever since. But like you've just said price isn't the problem with WiiU software is, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning the likelihood of a WiiU price drop.

you misunderstood me. Pricing is not the WiiU's problem in the sense that it was for the $599 PS3 or $799 3D0. Those systems had compelling features people were interested in, they were just priced out of viability for most gamers. The Wii's problem is that it's not compelling to core gamers at ANY reasonable price point. Reduce it to $200 and there will still be a lack of interest.

Though on that subject, we have no solid info on what margin Nintendo currently have on WiiU or what it may be by Christmas and as far as I've seen the only Xbox One/PS4 bom has come from Pachter, and the less said about him the better.

There have been more than a few rumors here regarding margin on the wiiU in the monthly sales threads and WiiU panic threads, and at least one GAF poster with reliable numbers on BOM for the PS3 and XBONE.

Again I'm not saying WiiU is currently doing ok. I'm saying that the time to start claiming it's over is if it's still selling poorly after the really compelling software hits.

Has there ever been a console that has recovered from numbers THIS bad? They make 2006 era PS3 numbers look like a runaway success. And what "compelling software" could there possibly be? Another mario, another pikmin, another zelda are not going to save this system since everyone who is aware of nintendo knows these games are coming, and nintendo does not have the marketshare to make it worthwhile for developers to put high profile series (say, resident evil) on the system exclusively.
 
I agree with everyone that you said except the Xbone part. From now on i'm going to refer to the PS4 as Playstationshitty 4....see how that works? I can also add a derogatory term to a platform I don't like.

...... And why would you not like PS4? What? You don't like good games? You buy game consoles for shitty TV programs? Is that it?
 
And? They have months to figure this out....do you really think the engineers won't get this down? Is it possible that they could f this up? (of course..RROD did happen!).

You can be either optimistic (xbox lover) or pessimistic (PS lover).

Are you a hardware engineer who makes multimilliondollar products? If you are then I am willing to listen to your opinion, but otherwise then no...

And your role in this is just to stir up console war shit and take jabs at people? Which role is that?
 

TheD

The Detective
TheD, there is so much more to compute performance than how much Gflops you can achieve, integer is a very important part of the equation too for instance.

Also, didn't Microsoft start the production of chips for the Xbox 360 90 days or something before launch?
They have a much larger window this time around, so they should be able to stockpile chips and fix the yield issues far before then for the Xbox One.

I did not say anything about GFLOPS!

In benchmarks an i3 1.7Ghz (2 core) beats a 4 core 1.5Ghz Jaguar CPU by a wide margin (1.5x to 2x)!
A quad core CPU like the i7 running at min 2Ghz is going to smash an 8 core Jag!
 

Minions

Member
So we have 3 possibilities.

1. The size of the chip is meaning that it is a hard to get one free from defects, changing the clock speed will not help in this case.
2. The heat from a lot of the chips is higher than they thought it would be and thus they need to be run at a lower clock (and likely voltage).
or
3. A lot of the chips just flat out not run at the clockspeed MS was hoping for and thus they need to downclock.

Likely the chips are unstable at higher clock speeds. The same way you can over clock (some) processors. You can buy 20 from a batch of i7 920's and over clock them.8 may only clock to 3.5ghz, 10 may oc to 4ghz and 2 may oc to 4.2.

Some companies (most) release chips that oc to 4ghz for a higher price, then market the lesser chips for less. They may sell the chips with 1 less core (3 instead of 4) like AMD seems to do. Some times you can unseal the locked core and it will still work when run at stock speeds. If you start to OC after unlocking the core it will generally cause issues.
 
Oh...ok I guess. thought it was some cool new Batman game for Vita. Porting off 3DS version means underwhelming use of Vita's power and abilities

still, hope it turns out well 'cause I'd totally buy it
His claim that it would be a 3DS port was proved false by a quote from one of the devs in an earlier post.
 

flash ban

Banned
Just to confirm, Senjutsu Sage made an account ban bet if the GPU is downcycled, right?

I wonder how that will be resolved. We still lack solid info on the wiiU specs, if microsoft is not forthcoming, what then?
Yup, this ^^^

The Wii U had a very successful launch, it did over 80% of the Wii's launch sales which is bloody impressive. The problem that the Wii U has had is with delayed launch window software that should have continued sales momentum from 1st January onwards. We're likely to see NSL U, Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, Wii Fit U, Game & Wario, Wind Waker HD, 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8 before Christmas and, I suspect, a $50 price cut.

I'm positive that we're going to see the Wii U having an installed userbase between 8 and 10m before the end of the year and that next year Nintendo have plenty of ducks in a row for Q1 and Q2 to continue the sales momentum that's going to be reinvigorated later this year. We'll probably see X, Bayonetta 2, Retro's new game, SMT x Fire Emblem, Wii U Play and possibly Wii U Sports.

For some strange reason people seem convinced that the Wii U is going to continue to sell as badly as it has so far this year despite the software that's on the way.
ps4 xbox one
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.

● The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
● Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
● A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
● Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
● Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
● ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
● ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
● ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
● A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
● Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
● Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
● And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
● And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
● On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
● Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
● One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.

Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:

● And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)


DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.


The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.

The proof is in the pudding. Holy goddamn fuck

You know, you're a pretty okay dude, Amirox.
 

Alchemy

Member
I wonder how that will be resolved. We still lack solid info on the wiiU specs, if microsoft is not forthcoming, what then?
ps4 xbox one

Wii U sales will pick up as games come out and after a possible price drop. The 3DS was in a nearly identical position, and sales took off once the thing had games people wanted and was a reasonable price. Wii U likely won't sell near 90 million units, but it won't have to for it to make Nintendo a profit.
 
Yes he said he was so confident in his source he could be banned if wrong. However, he did ask for mercy from the court if he is wrong, but GAF doesnt really work that way..
I don't think it matters whether there are ban-bets. As far as I'm aware, professing to be an insider and presenting ultimately false information will result in a ban; isn't that what happened to Reiko?
Wii U sales will pick up as games come out and after a possible price drop. The 3DS was in a nearly identical position, and sales took off once the thing had games people wanted and was a reasonable price. Wii U likely won't sell near 90 million units, but it won't have to for it to make Nintendo a profit.
It really wasn't.
 

Cidd

Member
Somehow I don't think people would be getting on that high horse if they heard Sony doing the same. What's wrong with being aggressive in the promotion of your platform? That's an extremely toxic sounding accusation if I ever saw one. I also genuinely think it's made to sound far worse than it really is. What's this big, mean old Microsoft are going to destroy Sony and the PS4 stuff all about? Sony can handle themselves and have been doing so just fine for many years now. A lot has been said about people attempting to turn Microsoft into a victim that is being unfairly treated, is this now what people want to turn Sony into? Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. People are confident, and have said so, that Sony is making all the right moves and they believe that consumers and gamers will ultimately choose Sony and shun Microsoft and the new Xbox.

Day in and day out you hear about a new Microsoft misstep or fuck up, and everybody is further convinced that the floor is literally coming out from under the new Xbox and there's absolutely no way possible for them to recover from this chain reaction of disasters. If all this is true, and people believe this with every fiber of their being, what reason is there to be concerned that Microsoft even has the ability to destroy Sony and the PS4? If Microsoft couldn't destroy the PS3 with all the mistakes that were made there, do you really think they are capable of doing it now that Sony appears to have all their shit together in a way we haven't seen in years? Sony has literally been pitch perfect, or as close to it as a company can get in the build up to a new machine. Sony will be fine. Business is business. Microsoft has spent incredible amounts of money in different areas for years, and it hasn't produced the result desired. What really is there to fear? Since when has making potential business deals to prop up and give special treatment to your own product over the product of a competitor, been this terrible and disgusting thing? Sony has done this for years, Nintendo is effectively doing it through Sega, we have so many examples of this throughout the years, where games were shown on one platform over the other for one reason or another, and Microsoft are sure as hell no stranger to this practice, but now in an atmosphere where if you have the nerve to say something positive about the Xbox platform or disagree with the pack, you get called a Microsoft plant, the rules change a bit. Even basic business is now treated as the work of monsters out there muscling and extorting people for everything they have. Seriously, yikes. I understand that Microsoft are doing some things people genuinely don't like, but this whole thing has officially been upgraded to full blown crazy.

Did EA's decision to shun the Dreamcast not effectively destroy it as a platform and help further ensure the PS2 would wipe it off the map? I believe they even had a very prominent place at Sony's E3 conference somewhere around that time. Were people angry with Sony for that? It's just business. I mean, I can't understand why people that are already clearly committed to getting a PS4 and are so certain it's the platform for them, would be so bothered by some developers or publishers showing the Xbox One version of the game, when that same exact game is still going to release on the PS4 day and date with the Xbox One version, on top of likely be the superior version of the game. The idea that some third party games will slip through is not a hope that people need to have. It's a guarantee, because some of the biggest third parties have already slipped. Bungie's Destiny, one of the biggest multiplatform titles out there, is at Sony's press conference showing the first ever true gameplay of the next big thing from the creators of Halo. Watch Dogs, a game that I'm excited about and has tons of potential, has already played a prominent role in the PS4 reveal. I have friends that believe Watch Dogs is a PS4 only game... Witcher 3 I believe is only announced for the PS4 thus far.

Geoff Keighley said that based on what he's hearing that both E3 pressers are going to be the best in years. Honestly, people. I think Sony is going to do okay? :) No amount of money that Microsoft could possibly spend can stop Sony if they have a great product with great services and software, which so far it looks like they do. And for all the crap that MS has been getting about their showing off the OS of their system, Sony showing off what is possible on the PS4 with the recording, saving and then uploading of game content, along with the social features, even friends taking over and helping you through your game, or even watching you as play (without having to own the game, I believe), was a major, major highlight for me at Sony's reveal event. This on top of games, people. Sony has a solid offering that people will pay attention to, and have been paying attention to. It annoys me to no end that people would believe that silly practices that have been around forever would suddenly have any serious impact on what gamers decide to do.

iH8xjWrnZOMyR.gif


Please tell us how you truly feel, I really hope you're being rewarded for all your hard work, if not It's a shame.
 

phunky420

Banned
...... And why would you not like PS4? What? You don't like good games? You buy game consoles for shitty TV programs? Is that it?

AHA! But I have not decided and I am NOT buying a new console at launch, but I don't appreciate the constant bombs being thrown at Microsoft. There are a lot of unknowns at this point, but it appears that GAF has chosen a side.

You have obviously chosen the console you will buy. You don't care about the features that the xbox will give you and only care about the games that the playstationshitty4 is providing. I can respect that.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
If Senjutsu is so content with the Xbox One not being the strongest in performance because nobody will notice the difference, why did he even make a ban bet on the Xbox One's GPU not being downclocked in order to increase yield?

From what I was reading in the last thread where this all came up, our Gaf sources started to point out the whole yield issues and possible downclock while Senjutsu was defending the XBone Kinect delay gif and all of a sudden tossed a bet in there to try and counter all of the attention our insiders were getting.
 
Gaf shitstorm against One can't be funnier.

In this chapter, over 70 pages about a GPU downclock when nobody knows the target clock and the final clocks. All we can know is that it has been downclocked, so more rant allowed.

Oh, by the way, one thing I am missing is that nobody cared to explain, to those with less technical knowledge, is that a linear change of clocks (or even CU's) doesn't lead to a linear change in performance. Those expecting 50% more performance from one console to another for having 50% more CU's will be bitterly disappointed.

Well, the rumour is One clocks will be lower than target (as usual) but, will One's GPU clocks be higher, equal or lower than PS4? Will clocks reduce the gap or make it bigger?

Please, continue. This train wreck is awesome.
 
So.. why can't Sony just say. "And we have these games coming to PS4" *lists a bunch of shit MS already showed*

Hell.. they need to hit um where it hurts. Tell the "hardcore" how much more power the thing has.
 
I wonder how that will be resolved. We still lack solid info on the wiiU specs, if microsoft is not forthcoming, what then?

MS won't be forthcoming. Even if the specs aren't downclocked, they aren't going to offer specific specs because they aren't favorable in a direct comparison to the PS4. Putting out that information would only bolster Sony's console, so MS has no incentive to offer tech specs, hence MS PR saying things about "transistors" and the "infinite power of the cloud."

The only way this bet gets settled is if devs offer up the information (which wouldn't be for a while if the downclocking decision was made only recently), or if some kind of tech specs get released internally. Either way, nothing will be revealed for a while I bet, not explicitly anyway.
 

Sylonious

Member
Actually it was much worse. Ubisoft flat out refused to acknowledge any other version of AC for months even after E3 due to that Sony cash.
Point is, these companies slangin money to put themselves in good light is nothing new.

IDK, if Sony paid them or not.

I do know that Sony didn't go out an pay off a bunch of publishers to withhold games at e3 to deceptively make it seem as if they had a ton of exclusive games.
 
Wii U sales will pick up as games come out and after a possible price drop. The 3DS was in a nearly identical position, and sales took off once the thing had games people wanted and was a reasonable price. Wii U likely won't sell near 90 million units, but it won't have to for it to make Nintendo a profit.

3ds was in a much superior position to what the wiiu is in
 

Biker19

Banned
Microsoft is a software company. Sony has better engineers and they've had experience creating multiple, and even complicated, pieces of hardware.

Very true.

Yeah yeah, but they deal with hardware now and have been since the original xbox (practically called it xbox1 for fuck sakes). I think its about time they hire a few engineers who know what the fuck their doing.

The only reason why Microsoft has even had beastly consoles in power & graphics with OG Xbox & the Xbox 360 is because they have a lot of money to spend to get better hardware & take many losses from it, unlike Nintendo, to be honest.
 

Colby

Member
No. Even if you consider the top-end assumption of ~2x better performance utilization due to a closed platform, your CPU is up to par. In terms of GPU, its slightly higher performance on paper than XB1's, but in practice the latter probably performs significantly better. A factor 3 difference is entirely fictional though.

Thanks, Durante (and TheD). This definitely helped. Oh, actually, one more thing: are those numbers factoring in an overclock from 680/900 to a stable 800/1050? Does that increase in clock speed matter much?
 

phunky420

Banned
And your role in this is just to stir up console war shit and take jabs at people? Which role is that?

You really think a junior member is stirring the pot? OK....

People making statements like I'm being realistic when NOT having all of the details is still picking a side. I'm just calling people out for the console love that they obviously won't point out explicitly. Also, what thread am I in anyway? the amount of jabs and console war shit that has been going on has been fing crazy....

It is WW3 here....
 

Durante

Member
Thanks, Durante (and TheD). This definitely helped. Oh, actually, one more thing: are those numbers factoring in an overclock from 680/900 to a stable 800/1050? Does that increase in clock speed matter much?
Well, it's ~14%. It doesn't really change the overall picture much.

People making statements like I'm being realistic when NOT having all of the details is still picking a side.
You can be totally realistic without knowing all (or even any) details. You just have to dispassionately evaluate the available public information and rumors and go from there. Of course, you can't be 100% sure on anything you estimate.

The important point is that there are different degrees of uncertainty. For example, not being an insider, I have no way of knowing that XB1's GPU performance is lower than PS4's. However, at this point, assuming that to be the case seems like the most realistic choice.
 
That's uhh...a very particular narrative you've woven there.

Well, they see the same threat presented by the likes of Apple and Google, the desktop PC is becoming obsolete as a general computing device, OS is their bread and butter, not the console landscape, somehow they need to have control over the user and they are trying to accomplish that using the xbone by attempting to consolidate what you do in terms of activities through the xbone (TV, gaming, social media), it's not a narrative, it's a real threat to MS's business model.
 

phunky420

Banned
This. The only reason why Microsoft has even had beastly consoles in power & graphics with OG Xbox & the Xbox 360 is because they have a lot of money to spend to get better hardware & take many losses from it, unlike with Nintendo.

Strange...You act like money doesn't buy talent. Do you think a large salary doesn't purchase a person who knows how to build a "computer"? At this point these consoles are just computers and especially this generation. It appears that both companies have decided not to do anything that special.
 
I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.

● The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
● Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
● A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
● Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
● Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
● ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
● ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
● ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
● A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
● Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
● Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
● And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
● And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
● On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
● Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
● One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.

Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:

● And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)


DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.


The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.

The proof is in the pudding. Holy goddamn fuck

The Major Nelson Yahoo Chat where he was literally just doing a copy and paste of pre-scripted PR responses.
 
Oh, by the way, one thing I am missing is that nobody cared to explain, to those with less technical knowledge, is that a linear change of clocks (or even CU's) doesn't lead to a linear change in performance. Those expecting 50% more performance from one console to another for having 50% more CU's will be bitterly disappointed.

You're right... Having 50% more CU's doesn't mean 50% better performance... but coupled that with the competition's much much faster ram and reports of a lowered clock rate and it does look very worrying.

Adding onto that the only game we've seen real in game footage for, unexpectedly, just looks like an upscaled 360 game (collar duty) and suddenly things start to look really shakey... especially when we've seen Killzone in action for comparison.
 
You're actually wrong here. famousmortimer said many many things prior to the Xbox One reveal, and many of them turned out to be true already. Of course, he is not the only source on this one.

Unlike others I don't like just quoting the neoGAF sources because I don't want any of them to get in trouble and stop sharing info, so unless they give me permission I'll let them share again on their own if they see this.

Oh ok, I was just going off his post.
 
You really think a junior member is stirring the pot? OK....

People making statements like I'm being realistic when NOT having all of the details is still picking a side. I'm just calling people out for the console love that they obviously won't point out explicitly. Also, what thread am I in anyway? the amount of jabs and console war shit that has been going on has been fing crazy....

It is WW3 here....

If you've never seen a junior stir the pot, or a junior get banned for doing just that, then you haven't been here very long.

Your suggestion that you're either pro-xbone or pro-ps4 just because you choose to believe a rumor or not choose to believe does not make sense. Are there plenty of people with preconceived notions that are more than willing to shut down or believe a rumor based on some ridiculous brand allegience? Sure, but that's not everybody. Some people, maybe even the "realistic" people, are trusting sources that have proven reliable in the past. Doesn't make then fanboys.

Feel free to attack people though. Plenty of people throwing around jabs, as you say, so why should you act any different?
 
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