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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
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WHOAguitarninja
Member
Somehow I don't think people would be getting on that high horse if they heard Sony doing the same. What's wrong with being aggressive in the promotion of your platform? That's an extremely toxic sounding accusation if I ever saw one. I also genuinely think it's made to sound far worse than it really is. What's this big, mean old Microsoft are going to destroy Sony and the PS4 stuff all about? Sony can handle themselves and have been doing so just fine for many years now. A lot has been said about people attempting to turn Microsoft into a victim that is being unfairly treated, is this now what people want to turn Sony into? Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. People are confident, and have said so, that Sony is making all the right moves and they believe that consumers and gamers will ultimately choose Sony and shun Microsoft and the new Xbox.
Day in and day out you hear about a new Microsoft misstep or fuck up, and everybody is further convinced that the floor is literally coming out from under the new Xbox and there's absolutely no way possible for them to recover from this chain reaction of disasters. If all this is true, and people believe this with every fiber of their being, what reason is there to be concerned that Microsoft even has the ability to destroy Sony and the PS4? If Microsoft couldn't destroy the PS3 with all the mistakes that were made there, do you really think they are capable of doing it now that Sony appears to have all their shit together in a way we haven't seen in years? Sony has literally been pitch perfect, or as close to it as a company can get in the build up to a new machine. Sony will be fine. Business is business. Microsoft has spent incredible amounts of money in different areas for years, and it hasn't produced the result desired. What really is there to fear? Since when has making potential business deals to prop up and give special treatment to your own product over the product of a competitor, been this terrible and disgusting thing? Sony has done this for years, Nintendo is effectively doing it through Sega, we have so many examples of this throughout the years, where games were shown on one platform over the other for one reason or another, and Microsoft are sure as hell no stranger to this practice, but now in an atmosphere where if you have the nerve to say something positive about the Xbox platform or disagree with the pack, you get called a Microsoft plant, the rules change a bit. Even basic business is now treated as the work of monsters out there muscling and extorting people for everything they have. Seriously, yikes. I understand that Microsoft are doing some things people genuinely don't like, but this whole thing has officially been upgraded to full blown crazy.
Did EA's decision to shun the Dreamcast not effectively destroy it as a platform and help further ensure the PS2 would wipe it off the map? I believe they even had a very prominent place at Sony's E3 conference somewhere around that time. Were people angry with Sony for that? It's just business. I mean, I can't understand why people that are already clearly committed to getting a PS4 and are so certain it's the platform for them, would be so bothered by some developers or publishers showing the Xbox One version of the game, when that same exact game is still going to release on the PS4 day and date with the Xbox One version, on top of likely be the superior version of the game. The idea that some third party games will slip through is not a hope that people need to have. It's a guarantee, because some of the biggest third parties have already slipped. Bungie's Destiny, one of the biggest multiplatform titles out there, is at Sony's press conference showing the first ever true gameplay of the next big thing from the creators of Halo. Watch Dogs, a game that I'm excited about and has tons of potential, has already played a prominent role in the PS4 reveal. I have friends that believe Watch Dogs is a PS4 only game... Witcher 3 I believe is only announced for the PS4 thus far.
Geoff Keighley said that based on what he's hearing that both E3 pressers are going to be the best in years. Honestly, people. I think Sony is going to do okay?No amount of money that Microsoft could possibly spend can stop Sony if they have a great product with great services and software, which so far it looks like they do. And for all the crap that MS has been getting about their showing off the OS of their system, Sony showing off what is possible on the PS4 with the recording, saving and then uploading of game content, along with the social features, even friends taking over and helping you through your game, or even watching you as play (without having to own the game, I believe), was a major, major highlight for me at Sony's reveal event. This on top of games, people. Sony has a solid offering that people will pay attention to, and have been paying attention to. It annoys me to no end that people would believe that silly practices that have been around forever would suddenly have any serious impact on what gamers decide to do.
Sony was getting massacred in terms of image in the early days of the PS3. It's not that different than what MS is doing now. If people here seem to favor sony its because the prevailing sentiment is that Microsoft does not care to really build a system designed for videogames.
MS earned the reputation they are continuing to build. At the end of the original Xbox's lifespan and early in the 360 most people were fairly happy with what MS was doing for the industry. But since then it seems like the the system is designed to funnel you into advertisements and paywalls to a much greater extent than the playstation brand does.
I've been around here since the dreamcast. Platform loyalties are ephemeral. Sony won't always seem like the chosen son. Sooner or later they'll start messing up and people will turn on them. It happens all the time. Right now it just seems to be Microsoft's turn.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Delusibeta
Banned
I would question the effectiveness of such a move, as the format the demos are running on are largely irrelevant. Otherwise, PC versions of multiplats would be outselling pretty much all console versions, and that hasn't happened.
That said, Microsoft being that defensive is plausible. Still, Microsoft having manufacturing difficulties again is by far the bigger story, since at best it'll mean limited stock at launch (and at worst the spec gets permanently nerfed).
Do you mean the downclock? If so I hope it's not true.
Princess Carl
Member
I'm not sure how to interpret your post.
The ESRAM is really the only significant different between the PS4 and bone APU's. If Sony's not having problems with the yields, it's a safe bet that MS doesn't have any yield problems with the rest of the chip except for the ESRAM.
How it could result in lower clocks: ESRAM needs more voltage to work due to low yields, which means reducing the clocks to stay in the same TDP range. Although I'd simply beef up the cooling in that case.
How it could result in lower clocks: ESRAM needs more voltage to work due to low yields, which means reducing the clocks to stay in the same TDP range. Although I'd simply beef up the cooling in that case.
Jeez, that's sleazy as hell. Doesn't it seem a little late to be changing E3 plans though? Or has this been happening for a while?
Manmademan
Member
They can't really afford to delay. Delaying would mean Sony gets a holiday season all to itself (incredibly bad for MS) and third parties with games in the pipeline have to delay those as well, fucking up everyone's profit projections. It's WAY too late to go back to the drawing board and delay the machine unless something dire happens.
more or less. The "defective" chips may be useable, just not at the speeds MS wants them. lower the speeds, you can use the chips.
I think he's a little taken aback by how anyone could agree with a post he disagrees with.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
That's an odd thing to write out of the blue. Hope you're having a good day too. Nice weather here in Huntington Beach.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
No he is talking about microsoft opening their checkbook
But would a developer know? Isn't this the type of decision that would only people high up would know and would spring on the presenting dev with only days and hours to spare?
Alright, so I'm pretty lost when there is talk of clock speeds and whatnot, but I generally "get" what FLOPS mean and are used for. Help me understand this:
I've got an i7-2630QM CPU, 8 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Radeon HD 6970M GPU with a GPU clock at 680 MHz and a memory clock of 900 MHz. Is the Xbox One stronger than this set-up? Also, how much more computing power would I get from overclocking to, say, 800/1050 MHz?
See, I know what my laptop can do when it comes to games, like how it'll run games at 60 fps and 1080p. So I was hoping you guys could help me understand where the Xbox One ranks with this set-up.
I've got an i7-2630QM CPU, 8 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Radeon HD 6970M GPU with a GPU clock at 680 MHz and a memory clock of 900 MHz. Is the Xbox One stronger than this set-up? Also, how much more computing power would I get from overclocking to, say, 800/1050 MHz?
See, I know what my laptop can do when it comes to games, like how it'll run games at 60 fps and 1080p. So I was hoping you guys could help me understand where the Xbox One ranks with this set-up.
I've never understood Microsoft's mentality with press conferences. With so few first party franchise, they always seem to rely largely on multiplatform titles to try to peddle their system. The past couple years I've watched, they've immediately lost my interest by opening with a multiplat title.
If they want to pay developers a ridiculous sum of money to show their multiplat games exclusively during the Xbox conference that's fine by me. I tune in every year for multiplats. That type of marketing isn't going to sell me on the One.
Sony won't suffer for it. They've got more than enough first party titles to display. That's why I've always been an adamant Sony fan. That's the mentality Microsoft should be adopting if they want to impress me.
Unless they're going to pay Sony to show off their arsenal of first party brilliance, I just don't care.
If they want to pay developers a ridiculous sum of money to show their multiplat games exclusively during the Xbox conference that's fine by me. I tune in every year for multiplats. That type of marketing isn't going to sell me on the One.
Sony won't suffer for it. They've got more than enough first party titles to display. That's why I've always been an adamant Sony fan. That's the mentality Microsoft should be adopting if they want to impress me.
Unless they're going to pay Sony to show off their arsenal of first party brilliance, I just don't care.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Indeed.
Don't worry about it. I was typing out loud.
I haven't posted any disagreement. Chill stretch-o.
no.
has nothing to do with how the chips will perform once they are in machine...
it is a Production term... meaning will they be able to MAKE enough good parts to fill their machines to sell that run at the full speed spec they want or will they need to use ALL the parts they make (that work) at a lower speed so those all run flawlessly in the machine but they would have more parts to use to build more machines...
which is why people are saying delay because they could delay and eventually have plenty of good chips to use at full speed.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
This is a strange question, but I also think it's a silly test of something.. so i'll play ball. Microsoft's leadership has appeared beyond idiotic throughout this entire build up to the reveal and ever since the reveal. Mattrick especially looks like he's completely out of his fucking depth. I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw him waiting for people to applaud after he said things, instead of getting on with the damn point at the reveal event. For one, Microsoft effectively had an opportunity with all this building negativity about their unannounced platform, regarding persistent online, used games etc for their own, ready made positive press machine that would just keep trucking along virtually untouched. They wouldn't need to try to massage public opinion, public opinion and all these other websites would have taken care of itself. All they had to do at their reveal was go into that event, go on stage, take the used games and persistent online stuff head on in that very reveal and say the words "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. We have no such intentions, yada, yada yada." and they completely fucked up by not mentioning it. Again, I'm not going to get on their ass for saying "things aren't finalized yet," but to not even challenge the biggest pieces of negative info about your platform leading up to the reveal was silly beyond question, and incredibly stupid. It showcases that Mattrick is really not the right man for that job that such a gigantic oversight could be made. That was free marketing waiting to happen. Even if it was true, they could have lied and changed it. That's easily within their capability.
I say all this as someone who isn't even pissed at the idea of controls on used games, kinect or some online requirement. I also won't crap on Microsoft for the console hardware or getting beat by Sony in that regard, because I really don't think it's all that important. The console, to me, is capable enough as it is. Just give me the damn games. I'll happily enjoy my superior multi games on the PS4 along with the exclusives that interest me, but that doesn't exactly mean I'll ignore an xbox One with fantastic games that catch my interest. So, in conclusion, has their leadership on Xbox One been a failure? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe this is so for all the same exact reasons as everybody else? No, I don't.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Didn't Sony have exclusive rights to showcase the first Assassin's Creed in E3? I've always thought that they paid for that one.
Oh you mean the bribery allegation. Thanks.
This doesn't make any sense. Why would Microsoft pay 3rd party developers to omit Playstation 4 versions of their games from e3? I can understand paying a developer to push your console as the platform of choice within advertisements considering it's a move aimed at deceiving the uninformed, but e3 is a show catering towards the hardcore, and I doubt the audience that would A) stay tuned to e3 coverage or B) actually attend the show are going to be tricked in this way. It's honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, unless someone misinterpreted "Microsoft has partnership with publisher to showcase X Game at their respective press conference" which is extremely common within the industry.
So we have 3 possibilities.
1. The size of the chip is meaning that it is a hard to get one free from defects, changing the clock speed will not help in this case.
2. The heat from a lot of the chips is higher than they thought it would be and thus they need to be run at a lower clock (and likely voltage).
or
3. A lot of the chips just flat out not run at the clockspeed MS was hoping for and thus they need to downclock.
1. The size of the chip is meaning that it is a hard to get one free from defects, changing the clock speed will not help in this case.
2. The heat from a lot of the chips is higher than they thought it would be and thus they need to be run at a lower clock (and likely voltage).
or
3. A lot of the chips just flat out not run at the clockspeed MS was hoping for and thus they need to downclock.
dream431ca
Banned
Ok, thanks for correcting me. I'll let the thread get back on topic and stop posting about yields.
Proelite
Member
Xbox would trounce your setup by a factor of 3 when it comes to gaming.
Randolph Freelander
Member
So you're saying there's math involved.
SRTtoZ
Member
There's a reason why they only showed Ghosts. Hint*, it has something to do with being 6 months behind in game production.
SMH, I find it hard to believe that any developer would agree to do something deceptive like this.
It'd more than likely be the publisher doing this, and they've done deceptive things like this forever. The main difference here seems to be the scale of the endeavor, if it's true.
Like I said, I don't know one way or another. I saw two posts on neoGAF from people who have been right more often than wrong, and I commented on the rumour from there. I hope it's wrong
Yup, this ^^^
The Wii U had a very successful launch, it did over 80% of the Wii's launch sales which is bloody impressive. The problem that the Wii U has had is with delayed launch window software that should have continued sales momentum from 1st January onwards. We're likely to see NSL U, Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, Wii Fit U, Game & Wario, Wind Waker HD, 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8 before Christmas and, I suspect, a $50 price cut.
I'm positive that we're going to see the Wii U having an installed userbase between 8 and 10m before the end of the year and that next year Nintendo have plenty of ducks in a row for Q1 and Q2 to continue the sales momentum that's going to be reinvigorated later this year. We'll probably see X, Bayonetta 2, Retro's new game, SMT x Fire Emblem, Wii U Play and possibly Wii U Sports.
For some strange reason people seem convinced that the Wii U is going to continue to sell as badly as it has so far this year despite the software that's on the way.
It went officially unannounced for a LONG ass time, especially considering it was announced first on the 360 as Project Assassin.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
In the almost twenty years Sony has been in the video game business, the only major screwup for them were the first couple years of the PS3. The PS1 secured them a spot in the industry, PS2 went on to be the best-selling console of all time, PSP is the best-selling handheld not from Nintendo, and we have yet to see the true potential of the Vita.
SenjutsuSage brings up a very point in asking how could Microsoft dethrone the PS4 at E3. Microsoft couldn't kick that $599 machine with no games and shoddy online service off the market in 2007, how on Earth could they eclipse the PS4? Company hatred is short-term on these boards, just a few months ago Nintendo was being shit on left and right.
The difference between these three companies is, Microsoft actually deserves the backlash from the public. You do a complete 180 degree reversal on your target market, enforce anti-consumer policies (to which NONE of them have concrete answers to), and now want to make your main competitor (Sony) look bad at E3 because you couldn't start work on proper games when the time was right and not ride on the success of an eight year old console, expecting it to continue to sell gangbusters when its headline titles for this year are a heavily under marketed entry in the GoW franchise and a HD remake of Fable.
Microsoft never has the balls to blame themselves for whatever they fuck up. Sony got its knees when the PSN was attacked. Kaz released a video online explaining the situation and Jack Tretton left a heartfelt statement with us at the E3 that followed shortly after the network went back up. We even got games for free! Of our choice! When LIVE was being spotty during December 2007 and January 2008, what did we get? Undertow. We didn't get to choose, Microsoft said "Take it or leave it". Yeah, spend $60 ($50 then) a year and you're still being force fed on what you get.
Don't think I'm a Sony fanboy, because Miyamoto and Iwata certainly have balls of their own. Wii U is moving slowly, but who would have guessed the 3DS would be where it is today? Cut the price by $80, offer your loyal customers 20 free games to play, and launch your two biggest titles that holiday season. What do loyal Xbox LIVE customers get on their birthday? 20 Microsoft Points. That's right, a total of $.25, on their BIRTHDAY! I don't many people who had a birthday on August 12th.
If Microsoft actually wants a chance this generation, they need to stop acting like kids on the playground and work for themselves. Don't hide the true answers to your shitty policies from the public, don't overhype decade old franchises like Call of Duty and promise more timed exclusive DLC for it, people eventually move onto bigger and better franchises. Don't confuse the fuck out of your potential customers by not stating what market you are chasing or what to even consider your device. Is it a game console? Is it a cable box? To be honest, it does not excel in either spectrum at the moment.
Microsoft, open your ears and listen to the fan base you still have. If you continue your current practices and go with whatever you feel, no one will be willing to open their wallets come November.
So you think that (1) a complicated chip with yield issues that (2) causes very plausible risks to clock rate, (3) a pre-packaged Kinect 2.0 to (4) increase cost of overall unit, 3GBs of memory dedicated to (5) OS and (6) TV functions when TV viewership is down by half over a decade, and (7) a six-month lag in game development (corroborated by developer reports of an inferior developer environment) are all runaway leadership successes, then?
It'd more than likely be the publisher doing this, and they've done deceptive things like this forever. The main difference here seems to be the scale of the endeavor, if it's true.
Like I said, I don't know one way or another. I saw two posts on neoGAF from people who have been right more often than wrong, and I commented on the rumour from there. I hope it's wrong
This kind of thing has happened all the time and it doesn't affect anything, really. The respective versions will sell just as well. Besides, if they aren't showing the PS4 version they'll probably just show the PC version so it won't be more in the XBO's favor anyway.
No it would not!
The CPU is much faster and the GPU is around the same.
Any difference is not going to be 3x in the xbone's favour!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
3rdamention
Member
Yes he said he was so confident in his source he could be banned if wrong. However, he did ask for mercy from the court if he is wrong, but GAF doesnt really work that way..
civilstrife
Member
How about realistic? What does that make me?
It'd more than likely be the publisher doing this, and they've done deceptive things like this forever. The main difference here seems to be the scale of the endeavor, if it's true.
Like I said, I don't know one way or another. I saw two posts on neoGAF from people who have been right more often than wrong, and I commented on the rumour from there. I hope it's wrong
Not that I'm trying to call you out directly. I'm just commenting on the rumor itself. I would be shocked if any Publisher did something like that with a multi-platform game.
That's nowhere near the same as Activision going to e3 and never talking about a PS4 version of COD.
Impeccable
Member
PSLover, apparently.
I'm a Nintendo optimist as well, but I don't see them selling 8-10 million by the end of the year unless they already have 5-6 million sold. And are you talking worldwide?
The Wii U will sell better. How much better is up in the air.
MGS MetallicA
Banned
So Xbone:
- Doesn't have exclusives
- Will offer much inferior multiplatform games, PS4's GPU was already 50% faster, down clocking further is just sad, very sad.
- Charges for Live
- Doesn't give a shit about their customers forcing whatever policy they want
GG M$, Xbone will lose harder in the next gen consoles war than the original Xbox did to PS2.
- Doesn't have exclusives
- Will offer much inferior multiplatform games, PS4's GPU was already 50% faster, down clocking further is just sad, very sad.
- Charges for Live
- Doesn't give a shit about their customers forcing whatever policy they want
GG M$, Xbone will lose harder in the next gen consoles war than the original Xbox did to PS2.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Well, E3 and what they have at launch or close to launch will be the ultimate judge of that.
No lol. It may lose to the PS4, but that ain't happening, simply because of things like COD, GTA, and a lot of other big third parties, and Microsoft, love em or hate em, has a reliable set of first party go to titles. I don't necessarily like them all, just some (Halo in my veins), but you get the idea.
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