grap3fruitman
Banned
Pretty sure fraud is fraud.
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Twitch Donation Drama: Donator takes back $11,000 in donations
- Thread starter KillerIsJed
- Start date
He shouldn't be streaming, but he/she should go get a job. Gotcha.
serversurfer
Member
Not refunding the money to the griefers in the first place?
How are the griefers even justifying the chargebacks to PayPal in the first place? Hasn't the "product" already been delivered? Can I buy I PS4, and then just call up PayPal two months later and tell them I don't feel like paying for it after all, and that's that?
Linearskillz
Member
Man that's really crappy. What are some better options than PayPal and/or how long should you let the money sit in your PayPal account before spending it? Could you get some kind of insurance or something? There's got to be a way to lessen the impact of this kind of issue.
Some people here are funny... streamers rarely 'ask' for donations it's usually the other way around with viewers asking if there's any way for them to support the streamer. I'm sorry that being an entertainer isn't a 'real' enough job in your mind but it's a very real thing now and Twitch is massive.
Some people here are funny... streamers rarely 'ask' for donations it's usually the other way around with viewers asking if there's any way for them to support the streamer. I'm sorry that being an entertainer isn't a 'real' enough job in your mind but it's a very real thing now and Twitch is massive.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
So when does entertaining thousands of people, some of which like you enough to donate to your cause even if you don't ask them to=not a job? And why shouldn't a 14 year old be streaming? What other rules should streamers follow according to your official rulebook?
The victim blaming is out of control in this thread.
Not really the point though, is it?
Not old enough to stream, old enough to get a fucking job and get off your lawn. Awesome,
Ragingnight
Member
not in Socal.
Also reverse this. Instead of the money coming via streaming and from ebay.
O is this suddenly okay now? Streamers get random hate for no reasons from users on gaf. Its a growing market with millions of dollars being put in to this field. Don't believe me? Just look at TSM, EG, C9 Streams. They get paid on salary to stream + sponsors + donation + CPM.
Its has turned into advertisement. And yet you got idiots that are saying "get a job". There are youtubers that make 6 figures, and streaming is essentially live youtube videos. I don't see why people are bitching for the wrong reasons.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Not in the eye of the Credit Card Issuer or any Bank. They will advise you to seek a police report and make do with your kin for settlement.
SwiftDeath
Member
Chargebacks are a feature on credit cards, not paypal. It seems this individual used a credit card to donate via paypal then had the credit card company chargeback all the expenses, which puts the financial burden on Paypal who in turn retroactively takes it out of the streamers accounts
Paypal is a awful awful company. It's not quite as bad as payday loan companies but it's damn close
i think Paypal needs to not allow donations with CC. it needs to be verified and come out of the balance or bank account directly. This would be much better for the person receiving it.
SwiftDeath
Member
Paypal's point of existence is attempting to make paying for online transactions easy, eliminating one of the most common ways to pay for something online for a specific type of transaction is against the reasons they exist for, not to mention that you make it hell on any person who wants to donate but doesn't want to give paypal all their bank information. You're punishing every other person who donates that wants to pay via CC because of a couple bad eggs.
Likely you would see the amount of overall donations drop quite a bit if you force everyone to link bank accounts to paypal to donate. This would hurt the streamers I would think
whatever works. there are some alts out there but i don't use them.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
On the other hand it would ensure they wouldn't get screwed over I would think. Or at least not as much.
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This entire situation is terrible.
Jesus. For donations that is not acceptable. It's also not acceptable to be issuing notices like that to 14 year olds.
That said I think Paypal gets a bit too much shit sometimes, they are focussed on protecting buyers and sellers often end up fucked because of that, but if people don't feel confident about their rights when purchasing online, they aren't going to buy shit online.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Except there is no product here. These are donations. And you can do that about your PS4 but that will be fraud.
yeah ebay sellers have been dealing with this forever and it's not going to change. those streamers won't get their money back from paypal.
bitcoin is the only way to guarantee you won't get a chargeback. (in b4 monopoly money, pyramid scheme, and didn't the fbi shut down the bitcoin corporation)
bitcoin is the only way to guarantee you won't get a chargeback. (in b4 monopoly money, pyramid scheme, and didn't the fbi shut down the bitcoin corporation)
This is a sucky situation. I'm always been suspicious of the high donations some seem to get on twitch via pay pal. Especially given how pay pal handles things. It's far to easy for some kid to take their parents card and use it. Or for someone to just change their mind or worse purposefully try to screw people over. That you can charge back something from several months ago is crazy though. Anyone getting a high donation should be super suspicious and not touch that money for a very long time just in case.
jadedm17
Member
These weren't small donations, a stranger donating $150 or $720 is a big red flag.
This situation isn't ideal but I've been in similar ones were I refused money knowing bad would come of it.
KojiKnight
Member
I had a similar horror story with paypal from years ago... I'd never do business with them or ebay ever again. Luckily I only ended up 'owing' them around $400... but they never saw a penny of it.
Long and short of my story: Sold a BC PS3 ages ago, was told by the seller it wasn't working, had him send it back in a terrible package (damage box, no padding to keep the console safe), I could hear parts rattling before I opened it, took pictures of the box every step of opening (including me removing the tape). The system was destroyed and parts were missing from inside. He used the post office and not properly packaging as a way to hide behind the theft of parts.
I refused to refund him, sent my pics, etc everything to paypal, their response was "Don't give a shit, refund his money." They then put my account into negative, took what little money I had left out and refunded him....
Long and short of my story: Sold a BC PS3 ages ago, was told by the seller it wasn't working, had him send it back in a terrible package (damage box, no padding to keep the console safe), I could hear parts rattling before I opened it, took pictures of the box every step of opening (including me removing the tape). The system was destroyed and parts were missing from inside. He used the post office and not properly packaging as a way to hide behind the theft of parts.
I refused to refund him, sent my pics, etc everything to paypal, their response was "Don't give a shit, refund his money." They then put my account into negative, took what little money I had left out and refunded him....
This is the reason I stopped using Paypal. They offer no protection for sellers and the person buying something or donating has up to 45 days to dispute something. I got burned by this a few years back for around $300.00 and haven't used it since. The best bet if you take donations is to sit on the money for at least a month before touching it just in case something like this happens. They can contact Paypal but honestly they don't give a shit and won't do anything for you the buyer is always right.
I feel conflicted about this. According to the OP those chargebacks were made because Paypal labeled them as unauthorized payments, it implies the donations were fraud (stolen credit cards or bank account). People that were victims of these frauds have the rights to get their money back (their bank probably refunded them quickly but the bank still need to get the money back).
The 50+ days delay before chargeback is extremely poor though. The investigation and fraud process screening should be more quicker and more thorough, especially for huge donations (and from the same user). It's a huge slap in the face for the streamers that spent the money already. If Paypal or the credit card company's fraud check is the culprit, they should simply cover the cost of the donations and give it back to streamers.
Fraudulent donations happen often outside of paypal/twitch too. I once worked for a Red Cross donation center and often we got in trouble with bank and credit cards companies since we had case of people "donating' with stolen cards.
The 14 years old argument is really embarrassing. If you are jealous that a 14 years old can make hundreds of dollars streaming then stream some games too instead of derailing the thread. If someone want to make a living streaming games it's their choice to do so even if you spew childish hate on forums. It reminds me of the terrible comments section you can find on news websites where people vomits on everyone that doesn't think or live like them.
I'm surprised the thread didn't get locked or some post removed.
The 50+ days delay before chargeback is extremely poor though. The investigation and fraud process screening should be more quicker and more thorough, especially for huge donations (and from the same user). It's a huge slap in the face for the streamers that spent the money already. If Paypal or the credit card company's fraud check is the culprit, they should simply cover the cost of the donations and give it back to streamers.
Fraudulent donations happen often outside of paypal/twitch too. I once worked for a Red Cross donation center and often we got in trouble with bank and credit cards companies since we had case of people "donating' with stolen cards.
The 14 years old argument is really embarrassing. If you are jealous that a 14 years old can make hundreds of dollars streaming then stream some games too instead of derailing the thread. If someone want to make a living streaming games it's their choice to do so even if you spew childish hate on forums. It reminds me of the terrible comments section you can find on news websites where people vomits on everyone that doesn't think or live like them.
I'm surprised the thread didn't get locked or some post removed.
Yeah, that is way too long to take. If they can't investigate in a timely manner, the loss should be on them.
Crimsonsky
Member
While I'm sympathetic to the kid, the person doing this is also a kid. This is what kids do, they test limits. Is there a way to only take donations from certain people? Namely those above 18. That's probably what I would do going forward.
I've never really had a problem with Paypal. What's with all the hate?
ebullientprism
Member
Uh wut?
Also hilarious that people are telling a 14 year old to get a "real" job. I imagine all those guys are stuck in a dead end job they absolutely hate. Cause I cant imagine any other reason someone would be so bitter.
Rock Hardy
Banned
The donations might have been made without parental consent. There is a reason PayPal has refund policies like that. Sucks for those who lost, but you take that chance with this system.
FrontalMonk
Banned
I mean, here's how I view the whole situation.
kid takes mom and dad's credit card, racks up a huge balance on paypal. parents find out, and say "oh, there was fraud! protect us! we don't know what happened!" and chew the fuck out of little Johnny Donate. paypal hears that they're getting huge charge backs and is like "lol nope" and pulls the money from the streamers. place the blame whereever you'd like, but that's what seems the most likely scenario.
kid takes mom and dad's credit card, racks up a huge balance on paypal. parents find out, and say "oh, there was fraud! protect us! we don't know what happened!" and chew the fuck out of little Johnny Donate. paypal hears that they're getting huge charge backs and is like "lol nope" and pulls the money from the streamers. place the blame whereever you'd like, but that's what seems the most likely scenario.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
What if he stays at an apartment?
He had a job. If he was getting paid doing this, this was a job. Too many people attach a false sense of meaning to what a "job" should be. A job doesn't necessarily have to be "something you hate" and/or "hard physical labor".
Also, lol. Where I lived nobody was trying to hire you at fucking 14. 16? Sure. 14? "Don't your parents give you money?"
KillerIsJed
Member
I think donations are important for people like me that aren't partnered. All of my donations go directly back into the stream. Currently I'm taking donations for 5 copies of Pokemon ORAS and a 3DSXL to giveaway during stream. People donate because they think I do good work and want to see me get that sub button, as well as they know the money is going to help promote the stream.
As far as the ad revenue goes for partnered streamers, I don't know. I do know that out of each of those $5 a month subscriptions, Twitch gets $2.50, $1.25 goes to taxes and only $1.25 goes to the streamer. Or right around that at least.
Also, I work a full time job and then stream 4-5 hours a night minimum, though last Sunday I did 14 hours on my day off from my day job.
ebullientprism
Member
Uh... where are we getting that the donator is a kid?
Unless I am totally misreading the OP.
indeed.
Though it's a scummy thing to do to fake donate, well it'd be worse if it was a donation to something like AGDQ's charity.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
???
I had a job at 14.
Regardless, really unfortunate for the streamers, and especially the 14 year old. Really awful situation.
Sorry to use your post, everyone knows donor is a word, right?
"Real job". SMH.
Pretty much; this is not the first person to do this. This actually is fairly common and has happened for a long time. Not so much in the amounts this kid is doing, but other kid's have gotten hold of their parent's credit cards to donate to youtubers and streamers they enjoy thinking it's okay.
I feel bad for the streamers and such; but that money doesn't belong to them as it wasn't the donator's money to give. If I rob a bank and give my neighbor a couple thousand, that doesn't mean the money belongs to him.
It sucks but I would rather paypal give the money back to who it belongs to, the kid's parents.
I disagree Paypal should be destoryed as a company, what a terrible company they are.
I wish they would just dissapear.
ebullientprism
Member
Yeah its like a shawarma, I think.
RandyBobandy
Banned
It sucks, but donations are optional and by PayPal standards he's allowed to do it. Maybe don't be so dependant on donations if you want to stream
That Wont Fit In There
Member
Crazy. Only time someone's donations to me reversed was because account had some sort of problem but this person contacted me and apologized and is still a subscriber. This must be a horrible feeling.
KillerIsJed
Member
To be fair, MittenKiss and JaccaMacca100's totals are overall from various donations from this person. MittenKiss said it was 3 donations of $50.
That Wont Fit In There
Member
Yeah, this got me too. Doubt he meant it to offend but if he did that's a little offending. I get people like that here and there. >:/
SquiddyCracker
Banned
The chargeback limit for most credit cards is 6 months afaik, so in the future you should probably not touch the donations lying in your paypal until 6 months have passed.