Support NeoGAF

[shuri]

on the topic of underage kids streaming on their webcam themselves and making money off that.

Did their parents sign any kind of release form ? Or anything at all? how can this be legal? Especially if there is money involved. I don't feel right with grown men 'donating' money to young kids 'because they are entertaining', to be honest.

Are those streaming sites having some sort of form to fill out?

 

[AppleMIX]

That is super shitty. I was thinking twitch should have its own donation system since paypal is kind of a piece of shit.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

That is super shitty. I was thinking twitch should have its own donation system since paypal is kind of a piece of shit.

They would run into the same problem unless they're willing to take a loss whenever they run into a chargeback.

 

[KillerIsJed]

Added an update, posting here as well:

Someone has provided me with a Facebook page that matches the e-mail that was used to donate. It appears that the case is this is indeed a case of a minor using someone's credit card. A question still stands though: Why did PayPal accept up to $11,000 in donations if they knew this person had done the same thing to the tune of $5,000 in the past?

 

[SneakyStephan]

Sucks for the streamers of course but everyone who works with paypal should know it's not wise to spend the money you get on it (be it from some ebay payment or a donation or selling your wow account w/e) if you can't refund it.

Payment scams and forced refunds happen all the time and everyone knows paypal puts the burden of proof on the seller every time.

as for the 14 year old 'only source of income' , what could a 14 year old possibly need a source of income for. jesus
a 14 year old's only responsibilities are attending school and eating his vegetables

 

[Arken2121]

As someone who also streams quite often, and this is just my own opinion, I can't stand the idea of donations. I've never had one on my page nor will I ever. If you have the means to play games while trying to entertain others, good for you. Just don't ask for money, I can't stand that. My whole philosophy is this: If i'm cool/interesting enough for you to come to my channel to watch and chill, that's enough for me.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I love giving away shit. From Games, to gear or whatever. It feels really good. This is just my opinion but I was never a fan of donations.

Edit: I do feel terrible for those who got screwed. I've had some pretty bad experiences with Paypal and I un linked my bank long ago. I hope they get their money back.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I'm sad this happened but yea...dealing with Paypal is like dealing with a loaded gun constantly pointed at you...

 

[G-Fex]

As someone who also streams quite often, and this is just my own opinion, I can't stand the idea of donations. I've never had one on my page nor will I ever. If you have the means to play games while trying to entertain others, good for you. Just don't ask for money, I can't stand that. My whole philosophy is this: If i'm cool/interesting enough for you to come to my channel to watch and chill, that's enough for me.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I love giving away shit. From Games, to gear or whatever. It feels really good. This is just my opinion but I was never a fan of donations.

Same. I understand and agree completely.

 

[Rip]

Dont feel bad for the streamers at all. I have used Paypal for years and you need to keep a large balance to counter act people who do chargebacks. It is just the way it has always been.

 

[komaruR]

let me get this straight.
so this jethyo/or whoever person donates like 500$ (whatever that value is) and 3 month later charge back the same amount. but during the past 3 month, the receiver/streamer used the money and now on negative because they spent the money?
now that streamer spent the money, they are complaining?
is that sound about right? its not like person donate 1$ and charge back 100$ kinda scam?

 

[KillerIsJed]

Dont feel bad for the streamers at all. I have used Paypal for years and you need to keep a large balance to counter act people who do chargebacks. It is just the way it has always been.

I'm sure you started using PayPal at 14 and had people scam you with fake donations, right?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

As someone who also streams quite often, and this is just my own opinion, I can't stand the idea of donations. I've never had one on my page nor will I ever. If you have the means to play games while trying to entertain others, good for you. Just don't ask for money, I can't stand that. My whole philosophy is this: If i'm cool/interesting enough for you to come to my channel to watch and chill, that's enough for me.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I love giving away shit. From Games, to gear or whatever. It feels really good. This is just my opinion but I was never a fan of donations.

Edit: I do feel terrible for those who got screwed. I've had some pretty bad experiences with Paypal and I un linked my bank long ago. I hope they get their money back.

I like kripp's method of not advertising it but having a link to donate if people feel inclined to.

Everyone else constantly advertises every single sub and donations to entice others. It's really annoying and I don't watch those streams.

 

[Arken2121]

Dont feel bad for the streamers at all. I have used Paypal for years and you need to keep a large balance to counter act people who do chargebacks. It is just the way it has always been.

Yeah....no. I'm not saying this hasn't been the standard but that doesn't mean it's right. Especially at a young age where you don't have nearly that amount of money just laying around.

 

[MUnited83]

This is why I love when someone streaming video games from their parent's basement does the whole "Streaming full time is my job!" bit. No, you don't have a job, you play video games all day.

If you can make a living off it and people are willing to pay for the content, yes, it is a job.

 

[rjinaz]

on the topic of underage kids streaming on their webcam themselves and making money off that.

Did their parents sign any kind of release form ? Or anything at all? how can this be legal? Especially if there is money involved. I don't feel right with grown men 'donating' money to young kids 'because they are entertaining', to be honest.

Are those streaming sites having some sort of form to fill out?

I do agree with you that it is creepy, but why do you only mention "grown men"?. If grown women do that, it's ok, but not grown men?

I know I know, I'm probably just being touchy but it seems to me there is a double standard most people embrace that men must be somehow pervy if a kid is involved but women probably aren't.

 

[Arken2121]

I like kripp's method of not advertising it but having a link to donate if people feel inclined to.

Everyone else constantly advertises every single sub and donations to entice others. It's really annoying and I don't watch those streams.

See, even that is too much for me. I think most people that I know do this and while I have nothing against them personally, it's not how I roll. Coming in to chill with me means much more than any monetary gain.

 

[kick51]

I'm sure you started using PayPal at 14 and had people scam you with fake donations, right?

well, it sucks but it's a lesson everybody who uses paypal has to learn at some point...that paypal doesn't have your back.

 

[Valnen]

See, even that is too much for me. I think most people that I know do this and while I have nothing against them personally, it's not how I roll. Coming in to chill with me means much more than any monetary gain.

I would only feel this way if I've never struggled with bills in life. Hanging out with people is awesome, but if I can make money doing something I'm taking the opportunity.

 

[Arken2121]

I would only feel this way if I've never struggled with bills in life. Hanging out with people is awesome, but if I can make money doing something I'm taking the opportunity.

And that's understandable. Everyone's situation is different. I just happen to be fairly lucky with my finances. And if you're like me, you give BACK to the community. Taking boils the shit out of my blood if you are well off.

 

[kick51]

if you're good enough, people will bother you about donating to you. it's not just solicitation, but people pay for entertainment too.

 

[Famassu]

This is why I love when someone streaming video games from their parent's basement does the whole "Streaming full time is my job!" bit. No, you don't have a job, you play video games all day.

You aren't some authority figure who can decide what people can and cannot do to earn their living. Some people RUN 100m as their living. And people do much worse things for money. Stock brokers, for one.

 

[Arken2121]

if you're good enough, people will bother you about donating to you. it's not just solicitation, but people pay for entertainment too.

Honestly, it feels more about luck than anything else. Either you've done something that is of notable worth to the majority(espwats) or something else out of your hands assisted you.

 

[Kinyou]

Sucks for the streamers of course but everyone who works with paypal should know it's not wise to spend the money you get on it (be it from some ebay payment or a donation or selling your wow account w/e) if you can't refund it.

Payment scams and forced refunds happen all the time and everyone knows paypal puts the burden of proof on the seller every time.

Agreed. I guess it sounds a bit harsh but when you're willing to take hundreds of dollars in donations you should also be aware of the risks that come with it.

 

[Suikoguy]

Added an update, posting here as well:

Someone has provided me with a Facebook page that matches the e-mail that was used to donate. It appears that the case is this is indeed a case of a minor using someone's credit card. A question still stands though: Why did PayPal accept up to $11,000 in donations if they knew this person had done the same thing to the tune of $5,000 in the past?

I'm more curious how you can do a charge-back past 30 days.

 

[Servbot24]

I can't believe you can just take your money back so easily. That's pretty ridiculous.

 

[silvermember]

He shouldn't be streaming, but he/she should go get a job. Gotcha.

Yes a real job, then he wouldn't be worry about having to pay back 750 dollars.
Getting a job is the standard way to make money, short of asking mommy and daddy or winning the lottery. A lot of us at fourteen got a job.

Honestly, though, I love how you are attempting to compare the two. One of them gets him money and the other apparently gave him -750 dollars. You can make a living with a job, donating you depend on the mercy of others and apparently that mercy comes with a big fan NEGATIVE dollars sign.

 

[rjinaz]

You aren't some authority figure who can decide what people can and cannot do to earn their living. Some people RUN 100m as their living. And people do much worse things for money. Stock brokers, for one.

No kidding. If you can make money doing something you love and not having to work hard at a job you hate for little pay, more power to you! Just look at PewDiePie. Dude's a multimillionaire streaming videos. But whatever it doesn't matter, "get a real job hippie!"

 

[Servbot24]

Yes a real job, then he wouldn't be worry about having to pay back 750 dollars.

Getting a job is the standard way to make money, short of asking mommy and daddy or winning the lottery. A lot of us at fourteen got a job.

Honestly, though, I love how you are attempting to compare the two. One of them gets him money and the other apparently gave him -750 dollars.

I agree it's a good idea for teens to get jobs but that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Yes a real job, then he wouldn't be worry about having to pay back 750 dollars.

Getting a job is the standard way to make money, short of asking mommy and daddy or winning the lottery. A lot of us at fourteen got a job.

Define real job.

 

[silvermember]

What if he stays at an apartment?



He had a job. If he was getting paid doing this, this was a job. Too many people attach a false sense of meaning to what a "job" should be. A job doesn't necessarily have to be "something you hate" and/or "hard physical labor".

Also, lol. Where I lived nobody was trying to hire you at fucking 14. 16? Sure. 14? "Don't your parents give you money?"

Where well you live isn't everywhere. Fine, Let's assume I am wrong.

I wonder how he is going to find the money to payback, paypal. i am sure you defending his terrible choices should help him out.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'm more curious how you can do a charge-back past 30 days.

Under federal and state laws, you have up to one year from the date of the statement (far longer than the 60 day limit for asserting "billing errors") to notify your bank in writing of "claims and defenses."

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit_card_chargeback_rights

This was mostly done within the 60 days limit most credit card companies impose for "billing errors"

 

[Suikoguy]

Where well you live isn't everywhere. Fine, Let's assume I am wrong.

I wonder how he is going to find the money to payback, paypal. i am sure you defending his terrible choices should help him out.

"His terrible choices"?

You are a real piece of work.

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit_card_chargeback_rights

That's shit, and needs to change.

 

[DedValve]

This is why I love when someone streaming video games from their parent's basement does the whole "Streaming full time is my job!" bit. No, you don't have a job, you play video games all day.

I really hate 14 year olds that don't pull their weight.

 

[silvermember]

Define real job.

A place where you show up, do a few chores and are almost nearly guaranteed (nearly because some places can screw you over) money every 2 weeks by law if you worked the hours.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

"His terrible choices"?

You are a real piece of work.



That's shit, and needs to change.

... because of streamers?
It is good that you can protect yourself from credit card and bank information theft & misuse, that should not be changed.

 

[Arken2121]

"His terrible choices"?

You are a real piece of work.



That's shit, and needs to change.

Yeah, that's pretty fucked up.

 

[BennyBlanco]

This is shitty, but man, OP's twitch page is completely shameless. Amazon wishlist link on a twitch page. Yikes.

 

[SwiftDeath]

That's shit, and needs to change.

Chargebacks for credit cards are one of the most pro-consumer laws in existence. Simply because some ass abused the system doesn't mean that we should preclude the whole thing for everyone else.

 

[G-Fex]

This is shitty, but man, OP's twitch page is completely shameless. Amazon wishlist link on a twitch page. Yikes.

wow.

Just wow.

 

[spwolf]

PayPal is one of the worst companies on the planet that doesn't abuse animals or torture human beings. They're awfully close to that, though.

Sorry that you got burned. If I were you, I'd direct my hatred at PayPal. Maybe buy a boxing bag and put a PayPal logo on it?

i have no idea what do you and others think that Paypal can actually do here?

If Paypal didnt do a refund, then cc owner could have easily filed for chargeback and would gotten it, easily... which means $20 extra charge to the "vendor", per charge... imagine if this user donated 50 times, it would be extra $1000 in charges alone.

This way they did not actually lose any money, they had to give back what they received but nothing more.

Paypal is not at fault at all.

 

[dokish]

People who depend on donations are a joke. Sorry but I feel nothing for that 14 year old getting charged back. This is like first world problems.

Stream your games if you wish and get a job.

But streaming video games and talking to the camera is a job!

 

[Paches]

Somehow in this thread the 14 year old kid making some scratch on Twitch has turned in to the asshole that needs to get a real job/life.

What the fuck is going on here.

 

[Crossing Eden]

A place where you show up, do a few chores and are almost nearly guaranteed (nearly because some places can screw you over) money every 2 weeks by law if you worked the hours.

Soo...jobs can only be chores? There is no such thing as a job that is would not be classified as a chore.

 

[Haunted]

Uh wut?

Which part of my post was unclear?

Uh... where are we getting that the donator is a kid?

Unless I am totally misreading the OP.

You are, OP states that the donator apparently turned 15 this month, so he was 14 when he made all those donations.

Clearly not with his own money, and - if not a prank - possibly an easy way for him to make friends online (OP says he was looking for contact to the streamers he donated to via Skype - if you just want to donate, you donate and leave a message and that's it).

 

[Arken2121]

Somehow in this thread the 14 year old kid making some scratch on Twitch has turned in to the asshole that needs to get a real job/life.

What the fuck is going on here.

Agreed, the kid had a run with bad luck. That's all there is too it. Lets just hope it gets resolved.

 

[Suikoguy]

Chargebacks for credit cards are one of the most pro-consumer laws in existence. Simply because some ass abused the system doesn't mean that we should preclude the whole thing for everyone else.

No, charge backs are fine, doing so after 50 days is bullshit.

30 days max.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Define real job.

One that doesn't rely on donations, probably

You need a steady income, otherwise it's just a charity

 

[Kinyou]

This is shitty, but man, OP's twitch page is completely shameless. Amazon wishlist link on a twitch page. Yikes.

I think I've seen camgirls do that.

Errr, I mean a friend told me that cam girls do that

 

[rjinaz]

This is shitty, but man, OP's twitch page is completely shameless. Amazon wishlist link on a twitch page. Yikes.

When individuals advertize they are demonized, but when corporations do it, spending millions to do it likely, it's viewed as acceptable and a part of business. People tune in for ads during the super bowl, and all it is, is a company trying to get your money.

With one, a person is just trying to get by, with another, the one percent are becoming richer (obviously not always the case, but still).

I have no problem with it. If one doesn't like it, they can watch somebody else.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

No, charge backs are fine, doing so after 50 days is bullshit.

30 days max.

Why would you be for making the laws less consumer friendly?

If you wish to make a living from twitch streaming, then treat it as a job and make sure you don't touch any money until a year has passed.