Support NeoGAF

[ntropy]

By showing "Screenshots of code", which just broadcasts to the world he has no fucking clue how good/modern software is written?

Throwing "anyone who actually knows how to write software" into the email like a passive aggressive bitch?

Oh and "fly to SF I'll be here until midnight".. on a damn Friday..

lol how out of fucking touch is he and his sycophants like yourself?

There may be layoffs "in tech" but a huge chunk of it are product teams and management.. not actual developers. You'd have to be a real knob slobber to want anything to do with Twitter 2.0.

wow you've discovered Elon's secret hiring methodology! this is how he assembled his Dojo team -- they just sent him ss of great code!
i'm sure he doesn't take anything else into consideration ... (lol)

and, of course, predictably, i must be an Elon fanboy to have a different opinion

 

[Kacho]

Bringing Trump back would be disastrous for Twitter and Elon knows this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[IntentionalPun]

wow you've discovered Elon's secret hiring methodology! this is how he assembled his Dojo team -- they just sent him ss of great code!
i'm sure he doesn't take anything else into consideration ... (lol)

and, of course, predictably, i must be an Elon fanboy to have a different opinion

They literally fired half their workforce practically overnight, firing people based on # of lines of code written... but you think Elon is using good methodology here?

And Elon's "dojo team" has little to do with the technologists Twitter requires...(lol) It's hardcore CS folks that are needed for something like that.. just a totally different world... mostly not even people writing code.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sounds like you've never worked in an industry that requires an education.

Sales people are 100% disposable.. hence why they are set against each other in hardcore environments and treated like shit.

Which isn't a good thing, an admirable thing.. the way it should be.. you are not special because you accepted an environment like that.

Sales people cant be that disposable. Most are hired FT with big bonus structures. Most of the contract work or farmed out services at companies I work at are tech people. And if something doesn't work out they get chopped and the company hires a new tech company to take over with a new contract deal.

Most companies go like this for FT or third party hired guns/contract. Most big companies have this kind of sliding scale:

FT heavy employees
Legal
HR
Finance
Marketing/Sales
IT/tech
Hire third party, outsource to foreign country, contract employee

Nobody likes loud bosses. But tech workers seem the most emotional telling the world what's happening with internal memos or their home life crisis stuff brought to the office. Or telling the world (like all the Activision legal suit stuff) on Reddit and Twitter.

 

[SJRB]

Bringing Trump back would be disastrous for Twitter and Elon knows this.

What do you actually think is going to happen when Trump gets his account back, realistically?

 

[Kacho]

What do you actually think is going to happen when Trump gets his account back, realistically?

The negative press would be astronomical and he only risks losing more advertisers

 

[Rentahamster]

Is it more funny or less funny if Elon misspelled Kathy and Jordan's names on purpose?

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Sounds like you've never worked in an industry that requires an education.

Sales people are 100% disposable.. hence why they are set against each other in hardcore environments and treated like shit.

Which isn't a good thing, an admirable thing.. the way it should be.. you are not special because you accepted an environment like that.

I've never met a sales person I didn't want to punch in the face. Every company I've worked at, the sales team only had a basic understanding the product, based on highlighted to them on a bullet point sheet. As a result they over promise what we can do, and we have to deal with the fallout.

And then they get pissed at us when their commissions get threatened.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Cocaine fuels sales, not talent.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Nah. Not defending musk. Just laughing at how everything you called him could easily be applied to how you conduct yourself on GAF.

You are defending Musk though, indirectly, whether that’s intentional or not. By claiming my statement is projection, it means that what I said about him doesn’t apply.

As for what you said about me: I’m aware that my posts are not the bastion of maturity, but fair enough!

 

[nightmare-slain]

seeing a lot of accounts promote that they are moving to mastodon or back to fb/ig.

it really feels like Twitter is done. i don't want to go back to fb/ig.

 

[Nobody_Important]

So hate speech and other offensive content will be allowed and no longer moderated, but it won't benefit from the Twitter Boost mechanic. On top of that he is still threatening to unban Trump.


I'm sure advertisers will LOVE that. They will come back any day now.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I've never met a sales person I didn't want to punch in the face. Every company I've worked at, the sales team only had a basic understanding the product, based on highlighted to them on a bullet point sheet. As a result they over promise what we can do, and we have to deal with the fallout.

And then they get pissed at us when their commissions get threatened.

To be fair, other departments can be shit too.

I do finance. My job relies on good data. If IT/tech dept can t load the data correctly my job gets affected too. I can say the same... how hard can it be to load and churn out data?

The worst part is the dept doesn't even check their work to see if it's correct. Most of the time they only correct it if one of us notices junk data like something is wrong or some reason it's spitting out all zeros. So the dept goes on auto-pilot until someone brings it up.

And then when we tell them there's a problem.... "Can you guys submit a ticket?". Ok fine, here's your IT ticket. Then sometimes they'll respond back saying they fixed it and close the ticket. I check and it's still wrong. So again it shows they didn't even check or do the work.

Then when I say it's still wrong, they'll come back and say can you reissue a new ticket because the old one is closed.

Hey, no skin off my back really. If someone says what's up I just say the system is wrong and I'm waiting for IT to fix it again, taking forever and having me redo a ticket. If it gets bad, we just copy their department director on he email trail.

 

[Toons]

Sales people cant be that disposable. Most are hired FT with big bonus structures.

Maybe twenty years ago this was accurate.

Full sales positions are going out fast, most do an hourly rate plus a smaller percentage bonus for performance. The full sales thing just doesn't work in a lot of places.

They also have started employing a lot more part time workers who are easier to replace if that can't pull numbers, don't have as much benefits and get paid decently but not well enough to be able to walk away from the job easily.

I've worked in these type of environments most of my working career until my preferred thing takes off, and I'm still in it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Maybe twenty years ago this was accurate.

Full sales positions are going out fast, most do an hourly rate plus a smaller percentage bonus for performance. The full sales thing just doesn't work in a lot of places.

They also have started employing a lot more part time workers who are easier to replace if that can't pull numbers, don't have as much benefits and get paid decently but not well enough to be able to walk away from the job easily.

I've worked in these type of environments most of my working career until my preferred thing takes off, and I'm still in it.

Maybe at companies you work at. Every company I have, the account managers are almost all FT internal employees, get paid a minimum of around $80,000 (jr acct manager) with 20% bonuses, car allowance, or fleet car. Sales brokers are used for all the tiny accounts.

I have never worked with one account manager working on an hourly rate in 25 years of working.

 

[Swift_Star]

I wonder what he'll classify as hate speech... And I don't think this will end well.

 

[strange headache]

Finally, we all know Jordan Peterson's ban was bullcrap.

 

[Swift_Star]

God forbid an incredibly successful industry (tech) became a good place for workers to have a good workplace that was at least slightly trying to make your life still enjoyable.

Which they did because... well the talent started to be able to demand it.. oh no, workers have some power! Workers get good pay! Good benefits! SUCH A SHAME. Meanwhile those workers generated trillions of revenue for what became one of the most powerful industries in the world.. that WILL continue to grow, despite these 2022 layoffs happening.. which.. nobody got rid of good software developers lol

I don't understand why some people seem to be against a healthy workplace environment and are championing a billionaire that clearly has no idea of what he's doing. It's work. He's not doing anyone a favor. People are selling their workforce and deserve to be treated with respect.

 

[DeepEnigma]

On top of that he is still threatening to unban Trump.


I'm sure advertisers will LOVE that. They will come back any day now.

Yeah, you're right. Many of them are too busy showing their ethical and moral virtue by advertising in terrorist states rife with hate for the World Cup.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I wonder what he'll classify as hate speech... And I don't think this will end well.

Oh it's a disaster. This literally will not work for the EU. He is required by law there to remove hate speech and other hateful content. He can't just wave his hand and apply blanket approval to everything everyone says. It doesn't work that way. It also won't bring back any advertisers. He basically just said hate speech is fine on Twitter because it won't be boosted. That's not going to fly with them. In fact it will push them FURTHER away.


He is either completely ignorant of the way the world works and thinks he can just smarm/sleeze his way through it all or he really is just a complete moron like people keep saying.

 

[strange headache]

So hate speech and other offensive content will be allowed and no longer moderated, but it won't benefit from the Twitter Boost mechanic. On top of that he is still threatening to unban Trump.


I'm sure advertisers will LOVE that. They will come back any day now.

Yed because public discourse being regulated by advertizers is a good thing...

 

[akimbo009]

Yed because public discourse being regulated by advertizers is a good thing...

It's not a public space....

The lack of understanding in this thread of the required workforce and expertise needed to maintain such a high usage and public used application like Twitter is ASTONISHING. Pretty evident that most people making these comments, have never worked in in the IT Industry, much less in Cyber Security.

Can Twitter survive with a skeleton crew? Maybe...
Will the platform be secure and completely stable? I have a bridge to sell you.

It's amazing... really. And totally resistant to those who actually work in these spaces saying the opposite. I guess everyone's life is well defined by a select tweet or tiktok.

 

[Swift_Star]

Yed because public discourse being regulated by advertizers is a good thing...

Twitter is not a public place and companies are not forced to advertise there.

Yeah, you're right. Many of them are too busy showing their ethical and moral virtue by advertising in terrorist states rife with hate for the World Cup.

This World Cup is a shitshow and I agree that it is disgusting that they're turning a blind eye about that.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yed because public discourse being regulated by advertizers is a good thing...

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's the way the world works. Twitter needs advertisers to make money and it needs A LOT of money to just break even with the level of debt it has.


What Musk has just said basically is "Hate speech is allowed and will not be moderated, but it won't be boosted either so it's fine. That means ads probably won't end up next to hateful tweets, but they might end up next to hateful accounts."


Not only is that not going to work in the EU where content moderation is legally required thats also not going to fly with advertisers. Not even close. They backed out BEFORE he announced hate speech would be allowed. You think will come running after a statement like that? With rules that break the law in the EU? He is out of his mind.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's the way the world works. Twitter needs advertisers to make money and it needs A LOT of money to just break even with the level of debt it has.


What Musk has just said basically is "Hate speech is allowed and will not be moderated, but it won't be boosted either so it's fine. That means ads probably won't end up next to hateful tweets, but they might end up next to hateful accounts."


Not only is that not going to work in the EU where content moderation is legally required thats also not going to fly with advertisers. Not even close. They backed out BEFORE he announced hate speech would be allowed. You think will come running after a statement like that? Withe rules that break the law? He is out of his mind.

Reality is that “hate speech” is just words that personally trigger you. Easy to call things you disagree with “hate speech” and demonize/weaponize the term to silence dissenting opinions.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Twitter is not a public place and companies are not forced to advertise there.

This World Cup is a shitshow and I agree that it is disgusting that they're turning a blind eye about that.

World cup sponsors list. Biggest well known brands there are Adidas, Coke, McDonalds, Budweiser, Kia/Hyundai

FIFA World Cup 2022 Sponsors list

World Cup is a biggest opportunity for every brand to showcase innovative technological achievements... Here is list for the FIFA World Cup 2022 Sponsors list in Qatar.

www.fifaworldcupnews.com

 

[Maiden Voyage]

European Parliament to summon Elon Musk

EP President Roberta Metsola briefed top EU lawmakers Thursday that she will invite Musk soon.

www.politico.eu

EP President Roberta Metsola briefed top EU lawmakers Thursday that she will invite Musk soon.

Twitter boss Elon Musk should check his DMs.

The world’s richest man who recently bought the social media company is set to receive an invitation to come to the European Parliament in Brussels and explain himself, two Parliament officials told POLITICO.

European Parliament President Roberta Metsola briefed top EU lawmakers in a closed-door meeting Thursday that she will invite Musk soon. The move comes at the request of lawmakers from the Liberal group Renew, a spokesperson for the group said.

The self-proclaimed free speech absolutist Musk bought the company and fired half of Twitter’s staff in the past weeks.

“There are sound reasons to suggest that the standards applied by Twitter until now, may be weakened, at a time when the fight against election interference, misinformation and hate speech is more important than ever,” wrote Liberal lawmaker Dita Charanzová (Czech) and Sophie in 't Veld (Dutch) in a letter to Metsola on November 8.

Lawmakers want Musk to show up in Brussels in person to hear about his plans and remind him of European laws governing technology.

Europe has some of the strictest privacy laws in the West. A new law to crack down on illegal content known as the Digital Services Act will also likely apply to Twitter as soon as the summer of 2023. Yet, it remains to be seen how European regulators will be able to hold Musk to account.

The European Parliament president doesn’t have the power to summon a company executive. In the past, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckeberg came to testify in Brussels in 2018 in a hearing that proved disappointing.

The invitation could be sent after November 24 when top European lawmakers will discuss details of the plan in a meeting, added a Parliament official.

 

[akimbo009]

Reality is that “hate speech” is just words that personally trigger you. Easy to call things you disagree with “hate speech” and demonize/weaponize the term to silence dissenting opinions.

Are you intentionally trolling at this point? Cause I think you must be - especially given that Hate Speech is a legally defined term by a wide range of countries and enforceable for grievances. It interpretive, but unless you actively moderate and attempt to curtail on your platform you yourself will become complicit. Same goes for displaying offensive images like underage activity - don't delete or moderate that off your platform and you yourself will be fined or otherwise prosecuted.

Twitter is legally obligated here.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Reality is that “hate speech” is just words that personally trigger you. Easy to call things you disagree with “hate speech” and demonize/weaponize the term to silence dissenting opinions.

You rationalize it all you want. It does nothing to change the reality of how advertisers will behave. And Twitter needs advertisers.


Musk can have unfettered free speech or he can have a profitable platform that stays in business.


He cannot have both.

 

[SJRB]

seeing a lot of accounts promote that they are moving to mastodon or back to fb/ig.

it really feels like Twitter is done. i don't want to go back to fb/ig.

Just like everyone was going to move to another country after Trump won the presidency.

I wouldn't worry about Twitter dying just yet.

 

[reksveks]

What Musk has just said basically is "Hate speech is allowed and will not be moderated, but it won't be boosted either so it's fine. That means ads probably won't end up next to hateful tweets, but they might end up next to hateful accounts."

Yeah, that won't be good enough for advertisers and imo shouldn't be.

P.s. to others yes, advertisers shouldn't be sponsoring the sports washing bullshit of this years world cup but one shit action doesn't justify another shit action.

I suspect twitter will survive with a shit tonne of downtime but don't know how he is going to turn it profitable

 

[strange headache]

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's the way the world works. Twitter needs advertisers to make money...

So rather than supporting those who challenge the status quo, we now defend shitty corporate advertizing ruling over civic discourse.

The only reason why you suck up to advertizers now is because you are of the illusion that they work in your favour. They don't.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Are you intentionally trolling at this point? Cause I think you must be - especially given that Hate Speech is a legally defined term by a wide range of countries and enforceable for grievances. It interpretive, but unless you actively moderate and attempt to curtail on your platform you yourself will become complicit. Same goes for displaying offensive images like underage activity - don't delete or moderate that off your platform and you yourself will be fined or otherwise prosecuted.

Twitter is legally obligated here.

No, but I do question if you have had your head in the sand for the past decade. “Hate speech” has been made such a broad term to silence any dissenting opinion and is constantly weaponized to do just that. You called someone fat? That is hate speech. You dared suggest that People are born male and female? That is hate speech. You dared make a joke on national woman’s day? That is hate speech and you will lose your job.

Actual hate speech, things Like racist terms - that I agree with should be banned. And are. These aren’t acceptable and never were on twitter. Claiming it is suddenly “OK” to say these things is ignorant. It isn’t, never was, and never will be. But that isn’t what people are crying about.

Just like everyone was going to move to another country after Trump won the presidency.

I wouldn't worry about Twitter dying just yet.

Yep. Just performative actions that won’t be followed through because these spineless weasels will always come crawling back to where they can get the most attention.

 

[Swift_Star]

Reality is that “hate speech” is just words that personally trigger you. Easy to call things you disagree with “hate speech” and demonize/weaponize the term to silence dissenting opinions.

That's not gonna fly here, buddy.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

That's not gonna fly here, buddy.

 

[Swift_Star]

So rather than supporting those who challenge the status quo, we now defend shitty corporate advertizing ruling over civic discourse.

The only reason why you suck up to advertizers now is because you are of the illusion that they work in your favour. They don't.

Twitter is a private company, so are the advertisers.
They're free to not advertise if they don't think it fits them.
If it demonetizes a platform, that's not their problem.
This is just how the world works.

 

[Nobody_Important]

So rather than supporting those who challenge the status quo, we now defend shitty corporate advertizing ruling over civic discourse.

The only reason why you suck up to advertizers now is because you are of the illusion that they work in your favour. They don't.

I'm not "sucking up to them". I'm stating facts.

Acknowledging reality is not the same as saying it's perfect.

 

[Swift_Star]

What does that mean? Do you have a counterpoint?

 

[Clear]

"The fight against election interference"... now they care!

Fucking bullshit.

 

[akimbo009]

the

I hate blocking people, cause I like to hear all opinions, but you're basically adding no value to this discourse - and not even arguing anything relevant to Twitters decline/circus show. You're arguing a meta-point about hate speech and why you think society should be more permissible. That's fine, but that's really not relevant. Musk has made this about free speech too, but his very first post about this was his open letter to ADVERTISERS so he clearly gives a shit - but is regressing on that promise.... So at this point I don't even know what you're arguing about or for, except to troll.

I wanted to reach out personally to share my motivation in acquiring Twitter. There has been much speculation about why I bought Twitter and what I think about advertising. Most of it has been wrong.

The reason I acquired Twitter is because it is important to the future of civilization to have a common digital town square, where a wide range of beliefs can be debated in a healthy manner, without resorting to violence. There is currently great danger that social media will splinter into far right wing and far left wing echo chambers that generate more hate and divide our society.

In the relentless pursuit of clicks, much of traditional media has fueled and catered to those polarized extremes, as they believe that is what brings in the money, but, in doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is lost.

 

[Moneal]

That's not gonna fly here, buddy.

Is calling Republicans nazis hate speech?

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

I hate blocking people, cause I like to hear all opinions, but you're basically adding no value to this discourse - and not even arguing anything relevant to Twitters decline/circus show. You're arguing a meta-point about hate speech and why you think society should be more permissible. That's fine, but that's really not relevant. Musk has made this about free speech too, but his very first post about this was his open letter to ADVERTISERS so he clearly gives a shit - but is regressing on that promise.... So at this point I don't even know what you're arguing about or for, except to troll.

The irony of this statement. “No value” meaning I am countering points that were brought up by people you personally agree with, but have no actual counter point so you cry that I am just trolling. Why is it you cry about *my* posts, but not the ones that had brought this up in the first place? We both know why, so cut the shit, akimbo009.

 

[dr_octagon]

As an employee of NeoGaf Industries, should I be worried about my contribution?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I've never met a sales person I didn't want to punch in the face. Every company I've worked at, the sales team only had a basic understanding the product, based on highlighted to them on a bullet point sheet. As a result they over promise what we can do, and we have to deal with the fallout.

And then they get pissed at us when their commissions get threatened.

The company I work at is currently being sued because sales put on black and white that we'd do in 6 months what we normally do in 12.

As you can imagine, the relationship between sales and production is, right now, strained.

 

[akimbo009]

The irony of this statement. “No value” meaning I am countering points that were brought up by people you personally agree with, but have no actual counter point so you cry that I am just trolling. Why is it you cry about *my* posts, but not the ones that had brought this up in the first place? We both know why, so cut the shit, akimbo009.

No... do tell me why?

I clarified my point being that you're no longer debating anything about Twitter, and have let this decline into a partisan argument about hate speech definitions and other grievances. It's off-topic, but it's also not helped by your planting gifs and other uninformative posts which allude intent to other posters - including myself.

 

[Swift_Star]

No... do tell me why?

I clarified my point being that you're no longer debating anything about Twitter, and have let this decline into a partisan argument about hate speech definitions and other grievances. It's off-topic, but it's also not helped by your planting gifs and other uninformative posts which allude intent to other posters - including myself.

Not only it's off-topic, it's not allowed in GAF.

 

[reksveks]

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-t...-content-moderation-law-digital-services-act/

Going to be an interesting couple of months/years

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

No... do tell me why?

I clarified my point being that you're no longer debating anything about Twitter, and have let this decline into a partisan argument about hate speech definitions and other grievances. It's off-topic, but it's also not helped by your planting gifs and other uninformative posts which allude intent to other posters - including myself.

I have never mentioned anything “partisan” about this. Just that it happens, you are the one attaching tribalistic viewpoints onto it. Again, this was brought up by others and it is a very fine conversation to have in this thread. It is *literally* about how Twitter used to conduct business and the false claims folks are bringing up regarding the supposed free rein of “hate speech”. But you are only harping on my points because you disagree and refuse to engage properly, because you are unable.

Yes, I use gifs as a shorthand to dismiss blatant trolls who, themselves, push “uninformative posts” that allude intent to other posters - yet you again aren’t harping on them. Your hypocrisy is astounding and the ignorance at which you are trying to display would be admirable if it wasn’t so obvious.

 

[Nobody_Important]

More good news for Musk.

EU privacy enforcer puts Elon Musk on notice as Twitter melts down

Irish Data Protection Commissioner Helen Dixon is worried about verification and job losses

www.politico.eu