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[StuBurns]

I'd suggest that it's because he believes that technically impressive console games are not *automatically* a good thing for gaming? They *can* be good games if they're, well, good games - and Uncharted is extremely likely to be! - but the way you're phrasing it suggests that the technical impressiveness is the be-all and end-all.

So you're suggesting the Cell is good for producing high end graphics but somehow isn't capable of creating gameplay equal to that on 360? It's an interesting concept, however, I don't believe it's in any way true.

 

[Violater]

Well this went to shit pretty fast, how soon before some blog pics up that Gabe bit as a part of the Quote :lol

 

[UT66]

A lot of -people- here seems to really hate this Gabe guy, he must be awesome :lol

 

[careful]

Between these guys, Guerilla Games, and Insomniac, Sony first/second party is really stepping it up on the tech side.

I wonder which third party games have benefited from the tech sharing with Sony?
Also will be interesting to compare how CryEngine 3 fares against the first party big boys. Crytek is promising to destroy the other big multiplatform engines (UE3, IdTech5) wrt PS3 performance, so I'm curious to see how their tech will compare against the Sony internal engines.

 

[BruceWayneIII]

No. You can skip a cutscene and be taken straight to the next level with no loading.

Okay, let me put this in a different way. If a cutscene is running real-time, memory is loaded with polygons, shaders, textures etc in order to be rendered, right? That space can therefore not be used to hold the next level. By running the movie instead, the next level can immediately be loaded into memory. Yes, you don't have to watch the whole cutscene, but a new level still has to be loaded at a certain point before you can play.

 

[StuBurns]

A lot of -people- here seems to really hate this Gabe guy, he must be awesome :lol

I don't think anyone hates him. Valve are probably the best developers in the world. It's hard to pick fault with their games.

Okay, let me put this in a different way. If a cutscene is running real-time, memory is loaded with polygons, shaders, textures etc in order to be rendered, right? That space can therefore not be used to hold the next level. By running the movie instead, the next level can immediately be loaded into memory. Yes, you don't have to watch the whole cutscene, but a new level still has to be loaded at a certain point before you can play.

Lots of levels of Uncharted had no cutscenes between them at all.

 

[Cheeto]

A lot of -people- here seems to really hate this Gabe guy, he must be awesome :lol

Nah, just a lot of people butthurt over them not supporting their precious

 

[BruceWayneIII]

I don't think anyone hates him. Valve are probably the best developers in the world. It's hard to pick fault with their games.


Lots of levels of Uncharted had no cutscenes between them at all.

I know - and there were also some pauses every now and then (and it wasn't just to piss us off :lol ). If I remember correct, there is a ND quote about the loading/ use of FMV.

 

[mclem]

So you're suggesting the Cell is good for producing high end graphics but somehow isn't capable of creating gameplay equal to that on 360? It's an interesting concept, however, I don't believe it's in any way true.

Nope. Indeed, I explicitly stated that good games can - and do - exist.

You implied that it *couldn't possibly* be a bad thing for gaming because the most technically impressive games appeared on PS3. I'm suggesting that there are other factors which may possibly be more important in its impact on gaming than mere technical impressiveness.

 

[pseudocaesar]

Between these guys, Guerilla Games, and Insomniac, Sony first/second party is really stepping it up on the tech side.

I wonder which third party games have benefited from the tech sharing with Sony?
Also will be interesting to compare how CryEngine 3 fares against the first party big boys. Crytek is promising to destroy the other big multiplatform engines (UE3, IdTech5) wrt PS3 performance, so I'm curious to see how their tech will compare against the Sony internal engines.

In that Cryengine 3 video Cervat mentions that there are 2 engines running on the PS3. I thought that was an odd phrase, but I took it mean third party engines. He then goes on to state that Crytek are doing better than them, I think he only meant Unreal 3 and MT Framework perhaps. Sony have several first party engines, Insomniacs, Naughty Dogs, Guerilla's, Santa Monicas etc. Sure they all share tech, but are in no way the same engine. I don't think any third party engine will truly match what Sony's first party will be able to give us in the future. Im talking Killzone 3, Uncharted 3/PS3 Jak...etc, a few years down the track (about the time we would likely be seeing games releasing for PS3 on CryEngine 3, Dices new engine, MT 2.0 etc). Obviously im talking specifically about consoles, and that while some third party titles might end up eclipsing Killzone 2 or even Uncharted 2 lol ), Sony's first party will always have another title to reclaim the top spot.

 

[StuBurns]

I know - and there were also some pauses every now and then (and it wasn't just to piss us off :lol ). If I remember correct, there is a ND quote about the loading/ use of FMV.

I don't remember pauses. I haven't played it in a while, but I seem to remember every section being there when I got there. Although you'd tend to get more pop-in if you skipped a cutscene.

It's really interesting what Carmack is doing with virtualizing textures, this whole issue of RAM constraints and pop-in will essentially be gone and replaced with higher res texturing than we've had before.

Nope. Indeed, I explicitly stated that good games can - and do - exist.

You implied that it *couldn't possibly* be a bad thing for gaming because the most technically impressive games appeared on PS3. I'm suggesting that there are other factors which may possibly be more important in its impact on gaming than mere technical impressiveness.

I didn't imply that, or didn't mean to. I asked how it is the case. Why is the Cell a waste of time if it's producing better performing visual games. If it's because game design is negatively effected by the architecture, then fair enough, but I don't believe that to be the case.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

having played through Uncharted a week ago, there is very little loading when you skip cutscenes (occasionally the gold coin might appear and spin once, if that, usually it just fades in to the new scene from black), although there is FAR MORE texture pop-in.

Random comment: but did the textures of the jet-ski repeatedly fail to load during the upstream section for anyone else? It seems to randomly work occasionally, but most of the time I play through that section on a texture-less block. :lol

 

[BruceWayneIII]

I don't remember pauses. I haven't played it in a while, but I seem to remember every section being there when I got there. Although you'd tend to get more pop-in if you skipped a cutscene.

Oh, I as far as I remember, you couldn't skip the cutscenes immediately - you had to wait a moment. But anyway, their streaming solution is wonderful.

 

[evolution]

I also think Sony's studios in Europe are doing some great things too. Those tech demos that leaked a while ago showed some really impressive stuff.

 

[Bearillusion]

Okay, let me put this in a different way. If a cutscene is running real-time, memory is loaded with polygons, shaders, textures etc in order to be rendered, right? That space can therefore not be used to hold the next level. By running the movie instead, the next level can immediately be loaded into memory. Yes, you don't have to watch the whole cutscene, but a new level still has to be loaded at a certain point before you can play.

Yeah I got that after I posted. Sorry.

 

[XanatharDeath]

A lot of -people- here seems to really hate this Gabe guy, he must be awesome :lol

He is awesome. That's why we'd like him yo change his mind, do a stage with Naughty Dog, and learn how to develop for the PS3.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Real Time > FMV/pre-rendered "in engine"

I hope Naughty Dog can impress with almost 100% real time cutscenes this time around.

I don't know why this bothers me so much, but it really does. I sort of feel betrayed when I realise that a game has been using pre-rendered cutscenes, Gears of War and Uncharted being the largest offenders. Halo, Metal Gear, Resident Evil and many others do it the hard way.

 

[StuBurns]

Real Time > FMV/pre-rendered "in engine"

I hope Naughty Dog can impress with almost 100% real time cutscenes this time around.

I don't know why this bothers me so much, but it really does. I sort of feel betrayed when I realise that a game has been using pre-rendered cutscenes, Gears of War and Uncharted being the largest offenders. Halo, Metal Gear, Resident Evil and many others do it the hard way.

MGS4 did it a little.

It annoys me because the quality is garbage. Who cares about added fidelity if you have shitty codec compression over it? Keep it all real-time and have total consistency. Even with FFXIII it's crazy, the CG is amazing, but it's still a slap in the face, a huge waste of cash and a constant distraction.

 

[XanatharDeath]

Real Time > FMV/pre-rendered "in engine"

I hope Naughty Dog can impress with almost 100% real time cutscenes this time around.

I don't know why this bothers me so much, but it really does. I sort of feel betrayed when I realise that a game has been using pre-rendered cutscenes, Gears of War and Uncharted being the largest offenders. Halo, Metal Gear, Resident Evil and many others do it the hard way.

I fond it problematic mainly with RPGs where your characters outfits don't match the one used in-game. But I agree with you on this : cut-scene should always be real-time. I'm ready to trade no-loading time to have real-time cut-scenes.

 

[Forsete]

Gabe praised ND before the PS3 had been released. He said something along the lines of they being the devs that had the best understanding of multicore architecture (on PS2) so they would lead the pack on PS3.

It was a few years ago though, but he was right.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm ready to trade no-loading time to have real-time cut-scenes.

Why? Uncharted uses the same models, textures ect. during cutscenes. Yeah, they improve the lighting and shadowing somewhat, but many games do that even when they're entirely real time. If it does help eliminate load times, then why would you want them to be real time? What benefit would you get from that?

 

[dark10x]

Bet it fits on a DVD9 if the cut-scenes were actually real-time instead of FMVs.

Well, that isn't always true. MGS4 was a surprisingly large game and used only a couple FMVs with 95% of the cutscenes being realtime. Of course, I somehow doubt KojiPro effectively managed the size of their data based on the loading performance of the game.

Uncharted 2 seems very optimized in that regard.

 

[deepbrown]

I really wish they wouldn't say things like this - it just taints them and the game. Just show how great your game is.

 

[XanatharDeath]

Why? Uncharted uses the same models, textures ect. during cutscenes. Yeah, they improve the lighting and shadowing somewhat, but many games do that even when they're entirely real time. If it does help eliminate load times, then why would you want them to be real time? What benefit would you get from that?

Consistency, mainly. When I swear Naughty Dog t-shirt, I want to see it in the cut-scenes. I also want Drake to hold the weapon I was using prior to the cut-scene, and so on.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Uncharted 2 is without a doubt my most anticipated title of the year. And this tech talk is making the wait worse.

On a different note, I really, really wish the F1 license was still with Sony. I can only dream now of how incredible an F1 game would look, play , and sound with Uncharted 2's tech.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Gabe praised ND before the PS3 had been released. He said something along the lines of they being the devs that had the best understanding of multicore architecture (on PS2) so they would lead the pack on PS3.

It was a few years ago though, but he was right.

Wow thats cool. Didn't know that...

 

[Igo]

ND sure do have that technical fetish required for PS3 development that Valve were talking about. Much props to them.

Uncharted is the only game i've replayed this gen. U2 should be incredible.

 

[proposition]

Are you guys really still butthurt that Gabe said the PS3 wasn't worth his time?

 

[XanatharDeath]

Are you guys really still butthurt that Gabe said the PS3 wasn't worth his time?

We just find it sad : Gabe makes great games and we have to play it on our PCs instead of our PS3s.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Are you guys really still butthurt that Gabe said the PS3 wasn't worth his time?

Can't a joke just be a joke without it devolving into 'LOLUMAD at Gabz' and 'OMG GABE DEFENCE FORCE'. People need to chill out.

 

[h3ro]

this whole full BR capacity has me worried, so is the English voice/sound track included in every version of Uncharted 2 or are we expecting Sony pulling another inFamous fiasco (English language not included for some countries) ??

confirmation? pretty please?

I just had a brain meltdown... Follow me GAF:

When I played Prince of Persia and now Shadow Complex, all I could think was "hey, I'm playing Drake does Arabia and Nathan Drake is Splinter Cell!" but if I play Uncharted in a language other than English... am I still Nathan Drake?!?

I mean, he looks like him, but if he doesn't sound like him, how is he him?

 

[proposition]

Can't a joke just be a joke without it devolving into 'LOLUMAD at Gabz' and 'OMG GABE DEFENCE FORCE'. People need to chill out.

Fair cop.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

How can you say it's crap for gaming where the most technically impressive console games are on the PS3?

Like what? uncharted 2? that's called naughty dog being an utterly stellar developer with superb coders and artists rather than the cell being a super processor.[/QUOTE]

 

[VNZ]

Let's not forget that ND were helped by other Sony teams to remove tearing. Good stuff all round.

Obviously ND chose to disable vsync in Uncharted as a measure to increase the perceived fluidity of the game, since they couldn't get the framerate quite up to 30fps a bit to often.

This time around they have a better optimized engine, and more importantly better optimized assets, and as a result most of the frames render within the 30fps time limits = vsync can be enabled. The point is that removing tearing is not a drop-in feature comparable to say, a nice looking water shader.

 

[TheExecutive]

Nope. Uncharted 1 contained so many extras it was downright crazy. They already said they are doubling the extras on the disc.

That is the best fucking news I have heard all day. God I can't wait for among thieves

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I really wish there was a collector's edition for this game. I want to give ND more money just to say thank you.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Obviously ND chose to disable vsync in Uncharted as a measure to increase the perceived fluidity of the game, since they couldn't get the framerate quite up to 30fps a bit to often.

This time around they have a better optimized engine, and more importantly better optimized assets, and as a result most of the frames render within the 30fps time limits = vsync can be enabled. The point is that removing tearing is not a drop-in feature comparable to say, a nice looking water shader.

Hm, I thought it was triple buffering and not v-sync. Are you sure that they are using v-sync and not triple buffering?

 

[Lince]

I really wish there was a collector's edition for this game. I want to give ND more money just to say thank you.

Spanish CE

http://www.game.es/ficha/ficha.aspx?SKU=062176

still waiting for confirmation on the English track available for this edition... come on guys!

 

[StuBurns]

Like what? uncharted 2? that's called naughty dog being an utterly stellar developer with superb coders and artists rather than the cell being a super processor.

Like Uncharted 2, GT5, KZ2, it's not like Naughty Dog can make something out of nothing. And that's not an insult, they're amazing of course.

My very basic understanding of Gabe's point is that it's a waste of time having to deal with the architecture, because it's possible to have just one massive core that has equal power, and a developer would therefore not have to worry about parallel processing etc. With GPUs it doesn't really matter because it's very easy to split that work load up, but with the CPU it's much hard to manage the game design over the Cell, and that's true. Just having huge centralized power is obviously preferable, they're in the business of making games, the less time spent managing resources the better. However, having all the Cell's power in a single core would have cost an obscene amount. The way processors are currently built means they can't just get more powerful forever, they will be equally powerful and there'll just be more of them. I'm sure it'll continue to piss designers off, but it's not really avoidable currently.

If the PS4 has a Cell based architecture developers won't have the seven year tools restart and they'll already have a good foothold of how to work with it. Despite being out the gate a bit of a fuck up, we're already seeing great use of the PS3, and it's possible in the long run it will be a better idea than using a more general PC style design. Then again, they might have fucked up so bad they're out of the business next time.

 

[JB1981]

So excited for this game. Can't wait!!

 

[Huevos de Oro]

Nice. Can't wait to play this game. The first one was an unforgettable experience, especially because I had no prior experience with ND games. I still hug the case every now and then.

 

[Windom Earle]

Hm, I thought it was triple buffering and not v-sync. Are you sure that they are using v-sync and not triple buffering?

Yep, I think it's good ol' triple buffer.

Like what? uncharted 2? that's called naughty dog being an utterly stellar developer with superb coders and artists rather than the cell being a super processor.

[/QUOTE]

Nice! More stealthy than the guy on the first page.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

That is the best fucking news I have heard all day. God I can't wait for among thieves

Regarding possible bonus features packed into the 25gbs of data.

I'm with this poster. ND just pretty much said, "We put a load of extra content in this game for you to enjoy Ploid. Oh and the commentary, and voice actor behind the scene footage that you demanded is in there too + some things you might not expect. You're welcome bro, no collectors edition needed." I stinking love game extras and in game unlocks, if they are attached to trophies (ND and Insomniac has been doing the skill points with meaning since ps2) I'll be quite the busy bee with this game.

Trophies with no loot sucks. Levels and points are empty rewards.

 

[Mastperf]

An Uncharted 2 thread that is half full of posts talking about Valve. Fanboys can fuck up anything.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I read the full article and found nothing about Gabe Newell or Valve. It is a shame that this thread is mostly about them and not about the game and the efforts of ND.

 

[fortified_concept]

Like what? uncharted 2? that's called naughty dog being an utterly stellar developer with superb coders and artists rather than the cell being a super processor.

Damn, Sony must have secured the most stellar developers of the industry. Because it's not just Uncharted 2 it was also Killzone 2 earlier this year and it'll be Gran Turismo 5 and God of War 3 the next year. Good for them.

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

i hate bullshit like this. Just make a good game, and shut the hell up. ok? who cares about the fking 360. In a few years im going to be able to play your "impossible game" at 650fps and real full 1080p with my low end pc with 257 intel cores. and you are going to look super dumb.

My time machine is in the shop, can I borrow yours?

 

[andycapps]

We just find it sad : Gabe makes great games and we have to play it on our PCs instead of our PS3s.

It's for the best. Valve games are best played on PC's anyway. Free content, patches released quicker, better looking, more accurate controls, etc. So yeah, isn't a big deal to me and I can understand why a mainly PC developer could care less about the PS3. I still have quite a few PS3 games to keep me busy, while my PC can be used for Valve's games.

And OT, good news I guess? Glad they're ready for submission, just get the game out so I can play it already!

 

[dark10x]

Hm, I thought it was triple buffering and not v-sync. Are you sure that they are using v-sync and not triple buffering?

Those two go hand in hand. I don't believe you can use triple buffering without vertical sync.

 

[Septimus]

Like what? uncharted 2? that's called naughty dog being an utterly stellar developer with superb coders and artists rather than the cell being a super processor.

:lol :lol :lol