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[mr_nothin]

We care because the pre-rendered videos use a subpar codec that is a disservice to the graphics. The game holds up fine and does not need to be pre-recorded so they can throw in a couple extra effects, artifacting and poor color levels in the cutscenes is irritating.

Well ask for a better codecs/compression methods....
The videos didnt even look that much different from the game. And how can you come to the conclusion that the game doesnt need "pre-recorded videos" when the devs obviously thought that they were needed to achieve what they were going for?

This gen is becoming waaay too technical.

 

[StuBurns]

I have 10/10 and the latter too
I dunno, it didn't strike me at all so I guess it's not that bad.

10/10, that's halve 20/20, the standard.

It's not so bad, but it's worse, which is kind of the point. However, I suspect they'll step up the game in terms of the compression if there are prerendered cutscenes again. They've managed to improve everything else by the looks of it.

To be clear, it is still an incredible looking game, and I have nothing but respect for what ND managed to do, and are doing again. It's nitpicking I admit. But it's kind of the down side to really amazing games, you spot those areas of weakness more clearly, and they tend to have a greater impact than they usually would.

 

[Truespeed]

Yes guys, I'm sure Gabe cares about a b-rate console developer's bitching. You're seriously comparing naughty dog to Valve? Two of the greatest FPSs ever vs. a mediocre adventure dealy? I understand why you'd be excited about dynamic sound, though.

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine? I realize you haven't played Uncharted and you'll probably never play Uncharted 2, but you need to realize that Naughty Dog is a technically superior developer than Valve. I can understand you having an issue with the story, but to call the best PS3 studio B grade is just very ignorant.

 

[lupinko]

Sorry, meant to put b-rate developer's fans'

Armitage
Constantly slobbing some bloke's knob
...Not Groovy
(Today, 12:33 PM)

 

[G_Berry]

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine? I realize you haven't played Uncharted and you'll probably never play Uncharted 2, but you need to realize that Naughty Dog is a technically superior developer than Valve. I can understand you having an issue with the story, but to call the best PS3 studio B grade is just very ignorant.

So much "wow" in this post and this thread. So sad.

 

[Pimpbaa]

We care because the pre-rendered videos use a subpar codec that is a disservice to the graphics. The game holds up fine and does not need to be pre-recorded so they can throw in a couple extra effects, artifacting and poor color levels in the cutscenes is irritating.

The game loads the next goddamn level when pre-rendered cutscenes are being played. So yes, the game does need the pre-rendered cutscenes. Unless you like staring about horribly long loading screens.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine? I realize you haven't played Uncharted and you'll probably never play Uncharted 2, but you need to realize that Naughty Dog is a technically superior developer than Valve. I can understand you having an issue with the story, but to call the best PS3 studio B grade is just very ignorant.

This post basically reads "visuals are everything"

 

[DigiMish]

Holy shit, why is it every time I click on an Uncharted 2 thread, I eventually see Valve? People that bring Valve into this need to find some better things to do, it's getting ridiculous.

Both Naughty Dog and Valve make one of the best games on platforms of their choice, but they're totally different studios and have totally different gameplay goals.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Holy shit, why is it every time I click on an Uncharted 2 thread, I eventually see Valve? People that bring Valve into this need to find some better things to do, it's getting ridiculous.

Both Naughty Dog and Valve make one of the best games on platforms of their choice, but they're totally different studios and have totally different gameplay goals.

PS3 fans have daddy issues with Valve.

 

[Raist]

10/10, that's halve 20/20, the standard.

It's not so bad, but it's worse, which is kind of the point. However, I suspect they'll step up the game in terms of the compression if there are prerendered cutscenes again. They've managed to improve everything else by the looks of it.

To be clear, it is still an incredible looking game, and I have nothing but respect for what ND managed to do, and are doing again. It's nitpicking I admit. But it's kind of the down side to really amazing games, you spot those areas of weakness more clearly, and they tend to have a greater impact than they usually would.

10/10 for both eyes, dammit.

And yeah, I see your point. Some people tend to spot and blow out of proportions minor defaultsin an awesome game. I'm more of the "it's awesome, I can forget a lil bit of aliasing or whatever" kind.

 

[vocab]

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine? I realize you haven't played Uncharted and you'll probably never play Uncharted 2, but you need to realize that Naughty Dog is a technically superior developer than Valve. I can understand you having an issue with the story, but to call the best PS3 studio B grade is just very ignorant.

Valve's source engine was created so more computers can actually handle it. Blizzard does the same thing. They never go for "Look at our fucking tech that your $2000 computer can't run hahahah!".

I don't know why anyone would call ND or Valve b grade developers. They both succeed on the platforms they work with, and do it way better than most developers.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm getting sick and tired of these fucking PS3 thread derails. How many 360 threads turn to shit like this? And all those fence sitters watching from the sidelines know what the hell I'm talking about. This is great news for a AAA developer in Naughty Dog. If you can't handle it and make you want of the text then you're either an irrational idiot or a fucking fanboy who can't stand that a world class developer like Naughty Dog is on PS3 and not 360. The damn GOTS at E3 and this is the treatment ND gets.

As has been stated, this kind of misinterpretation hits many PS3 threads and it gets old. At least we can see the interest in PS3 games by the number of hits they get. Too bad some of the sideline sitters can't own it up and root for both sides and not just support just the 360. I lurk many threads and have interest but this only happens in PS3 threads the majority of the time. Stop it.

 

[G_Berry]

I'm getting sick and tired of these fucking PS3 thread derails. How many 360 threads turn to shit like this? And all those fence sitters watching from the sidelines know what the hell I'm talking about. This is great news for a AAA developer in Naughty Dog. If you can't handle it and make you want of the text then you're either an irrational idiot or a fucking fanboy who can't stand that a world class developer like Naughty Dog is on PS3 and not 360. The damn GOTS at E3 and this is the treatment ND gets.

As has been stated, this kind of misinterpretation hits many PS3 threads and it gets old. At least we can see the interest in PS3 games by the number of hits they get. Too bad some of the sideline sitters can't own it up and root for both sides and not just support just the 360. I lurk many threads and have interest but this only happens in PS3 threads the majority of the time. Stop it.

Valve was brought into this in the OP!!

 

[Traumahound]

10/10 for both eyes, dammit.

Jesus Christ, that's one of the funniest things I've read today.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Valve was brought into this in the OP!!

You mean Gabe? The guy who has been so hesitant to support the PS3 with his awesome games? Yes, clearly that describes Valve as a whole.

 

[Raist]

Jesus Christ, that's one of the funniest things I've read today.

wat?

 

[Traumahound]

wat?

Please tell me that you think 20/20 vision is a combined 10/10 rating for each eye.

 

[Truespeed]

This post basically reads "visuals are everything"

No, the technical wizardry of ND combined with a script penned by Amy Hennig / ND are everything.

 

[Raist]

Please tell me that you think 20/20 vision is a combined 10/10 rating for each eye.

Of course it is!

...


In France, visual acuity is measured this way. Not on a 20 scale.

 

[Stallion Free]

The game loads the next goddamn level when pre-rendered cutscenes are being played. So yes, the game does need the pre-rendered cutscenes. Unless you like staring about horribly long loading screens.

You can skip cutscenes in Uncharted 1 and the most loading you will see is about 3 seconds worth. They aren't hiding long-ass loading screens. A couple people in this thread have confirmed that.

 

[bluescreenoflife]

No, the technical wizardry of ND combined with a script penned by Amy Hennig / ND are everything.

Why are there people like you who feel the need to not only enjoy something that is well made... but to claim it has no rival?

Uncharted and Uncharted 2 are beautiful looking.

Uncharted and Uncharted 2 have a great writer with voice actors that are worthy of and sometimes transcend the writing.

Uncharted and Uncharted 2 are fun to play.


But to take a shit on Valve and their "B-Grade" engine makes you look like a fucking joke who grew up playing a Playstation and can't expand their mind past it.


Every employee at Valve is the best in the world at what they do, period.

 

[Windom Earle]

Every employee at Valve is the best in the world at what they do, period.

Even the toilet lady?

 

[deepbrown]

Every employee at Valve is the best in the world at what they do, period.

Really? I mean really? Isn't that complete hyper-bole?

 

[Ninja Moomin]

10/10 for both eyes, dammit.

And yeah, I see your point. Some people tend to spot and blow out of proportions minor defaultsin an awesome game. I'm more of the "it's awesome, I can forget a lil bit of aliasing or whatever" kind.

Correct... as long as the frame rate is good, and the games looks great... nit picking over minor details is churlish

these people need to get a life... and i suspect clearly have no real idea of the huge technical hurdles developers cross to make games as good as this.

 

[slider]

Bollocks. Amazon cancelled my pre-order today cos, apparently, U2 isn't shipping anymore. What the hell, you can look at the email in question. I guess all I can do in a situation like this is... :lol

Dear Customer,

Greetings from Amazon.co.uk.

We regret to report that the release of the following item has been cancelled:

"Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3)"

This item has now been cancelled from your order # and we can confirm that you have not been charged for it.

We are no longer able to offer this item for sale. Our supplier has informed us that this item has been discontinued and is no longer available.

Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience caused.

If you took advantage of a promotional offer when placing this order, this cancellation may affect your order's eligibility for that offer. If you discover this to be the case, please contact customer service so that we may investigate. You can send an e-mail to customer service from the following URL:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/contact-us

...

 

[Windom Earle]

Bollocks. Amazon cancelled my pre-order today cos, apparently, U2 isn't shipping anymore. What the hell, you can look at the email in question. I guess all I can do in a situation like this is... :lol

:lol Amazon knew it first!

 

[deepbrown]

Bollocks. Amazon cancelled my pre-order today cos, apparently, U2 isn't shipping anymore. What the hell, you can look at the email in question. I guess all I can do in a situation like this is... :lol

Exclusive with PS3 Slim purchase :O

 

[Cheeto]

Really? I mean really? Isn't that complete hyper-bole?

Yea, the bole is in hyper-mode for sure.

 

[G_Berry]

Even the toilet lady?

Are you trying to diss the toilet lady??? VALVES toilet lady??

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Even the toilet lady?

She can probably code better than ND's Senior tech director. She can also speak 9 languages and remove cancer tumours with sheer suction power from her plunger. I mean, this is Valve, folks.

 

[Ardorx]

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine?

Yeah, God Damn Valve and their engine built in 2004. How dare they keep consistency between their games so people can still enjoy them.

Next up: Damn that Blizzard and their B Grade MMO engine. Guild Wars 2 totally rocks that shit and DESTROYS everything Blizzard has ever done.

 

[Wizman23]

I'm getting sick and tired of these fucking PS3 thread derails. How many 360 threads turn to shit like this? And all those fence sitters watching from the sidelines know what the hell I'm talking about. This is great news for a AAA developer in Naughty Dog. If you can't handle it and make you want of the text then you're either an irrational idiot or a fucking fanboy who can't stand that a world class developer like Naughty Dog is on PS3 and not 360. The damn GOTS at E3 and this is the treatment ND gets.

As has been stated, this kind of misinterpretation hits many PS3 threads and it gets old. At least we can see the interest in PS3 games by the number of hits they get. Too bad some of the sideline sitters can't own it up and root for both sides and not just support just the 360. I lurk many threads and have interest but this only happens in PS3 threads the majority of the time. Stop it.

Oh go cry some more. Every fucking 360 shooter thread has been de railed for the past 2 years just so Sony fanboys can come in and proclaim how Killzone 2 is the greatest game ever ever created and how it will sell 20 million copies and win the console war for Sony....yeah how did that turn out??

The OP dug his own grave with his obvious agenda against Valve.

 

[deepbrown]

Oh go cry some more. Every fucking 360 shooter thread has been de railed for the past 2 years just so Sony fanboys can come in and proclaim how Killzone 2 is the greatest game ever ever created and how it will sell 20 million copies and win the console war for Sony....yeah how did that turn out??

The OP dug his own grave with his obvious agenda against Valve.

Yay! Sales=game quality arguments are here!

 

[Ardorx]

Yay! Sales=game quality arguments are here!

He's using that as an example.

Instead of this thread being about the impressive work Naughty Dog has done it has been used as a platform to take jabs at Valve(a very influential developer, mind you) starting right at the OP.

This is no different then people trolling 360 threads with Killzone.gifs and sales-age or lol no games on wii.

It's fucking stupid and the hypocrisy all around is phenomenal sometimes.

 

[Windom Earle]

He's using that as an example.

Instead of this thread being about the impressive work Naughty Dog has done it has been used as a platform to take jabs at Valve(a very influential developer, mind you) starting right at the OP.

This is no different then people trolling 360 threads with Killzone.gifs and sales-age or lol no games on wii.

It's fucking stupid and the hypocrisy all around is phenomenal sometimes.

Read the OP carefully again. Did he really attack valve and their work? Or did he just take a playful jab at Gabe Newell concerning this questionable statements about the PS3?

I agree that it was unnecessary and derailing [edit: for GAF] though...

Oh go cry some more. Every fucking 360 shooter thread has been de railed for the past 2 years just so Sony fanboys can come in and proclaim how Killzone 2 is the greatest game ever ever created and how it will sell 20 million copies and win the console war for Sony....yeah how did that turn out??

The OP dug his own grave with his obvious agenda against Valve.

You're part of the problem...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I can barely breath over the smell of the testosterone in this thread, gross

 

[TheRagnCajun]

He's using that as an example.

Instead of this thread being about the impressive work Naughty Dog has done it has been used as a platform to take jabs at Valve(a very influential developer, mind you) starting right at the OP.

This is no different then people trolling 360 threads with Killzone.gifs and sales-age or lol no games on wii.

It's fucking stupid and the hypocrisy all around is phenomenal sometimes.

I would argue the OP just made a harmless joke, and its srs GAF's fault for getting butt-hurt about it and derailing the thread. Just because Gabe is the gaming industry's Steve Jobs doesn't mean he isn't accountable for what he says, nor is off-limits for a joke.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I can barely breath over the smell of the testosterone in this thread, gross

oestrogen mate...oestrogen

 

[proposition]

What does the phrase 'they made much more better games than them' mean and what does it have to do with this thread? Unless you were talking purely on a technical level I interpret that statement as entirely subjective and it has no relevance to the comment in the OP. Clearly Gabe Newell and Valve have had problems with the Cell BBE, and they'd tell you that themselves (they've said it enough in interviews as it is). He has simply tried to dismiss the thing altogether, saying that they would be wasting time trying to learn the architecture and that the technology itself is irrelevant. This says something about them objectively - particularly the latter, because quite frankly his head must be up his arse if he can't see that this is the direction the entire industry (computer science, not merely consoles/gaming) is moving towards. They will have to get to grips with it at some point, like everyone else is doing/has done and they will be that much behind the later they leave it. As far as I know the frustration was majorly down to working with something unfamiliar rather than lack of software support as in inferior toolsets - there's certainly nothing overly complex with the processor itself. Naughty Dog have managed to design ICE (1st party) and EDGE (3rd party) for developers to work with. If I were 'Armitage' I'd rethink branding them B-rate while cock-sucking Gabe Newell.

Read Gabe's quote again. He's not talking about multicore in general or saying that Cell is crap or not up to the job. He's saying that it's not worth time or money investing in learning to use the Cell architecture properly because it can't help you to do anything but use the Cell architecture properly. He's talking about the heterogeneous, idiosyncratic architecture of Cell, not simply the fact that it's multicore.

Unless you've work firsthand with Cell, and know for yourself whether those skills are transferable to working with other CPUs, you're basically in no position to refute him. And seeing as how he's the head of one of the leading videogame companies, unless you've got that first-hand experience his word kinda means a little more than your armchair analysis would.

This whole thing is such an inane storm in a teacup.

 

[andycapps]

How can they be great FPS's when they're running on a B grade engine? I realize you haven't played Uncharted and you'll probably never play Uncharted 2, but you need to realize that Naughty Dog is a technically superior developer than Valve. I can understand you having an issue with the story, but to call the best PS3 studio B grade is just very ignorant.

Have you even played Half Life 2, Left 4 Dead, or Team Fortress 2 on a PC? Go check out the current thread for GAF replaying through Half Life 2, which is a 5 years old game. The game has aged very well and still looks very, very good. You can't say that for a lot of the same games at the time. Say what you want about the Source engine, but it's very scaleable and looks pretty good. Play through Half Life 2 and tell me that isn't epic, or that Left 4 Dead or Team Fortress 2 aren't extremely finely tuned games. I've put more hours into those two games than any console game. On second thought, nevermind, why am I falling for this bait? :lol

Naughty Dog is good at what they do, maximizing the results on the only platform they work on, PS3. Uncharted is a phenomenal looking game, as are Valve's games. Sucks that the OP had to bring Valve into this as they don't relate to the original article AT ALL. Who cares if Valve games can't be played on PS3 as long as you've got a halfway decent PC? Again, Valve's games are first and foremost designed for PC, so even if you have a 360, I'd still recommend them moreso on a PC anyway.

This thread is the perfect example of why PC gamers hate console gamers and vice versa. And it's also the perfect example of GAF.

 

[PuMa]

Wow, this thread sucks.

 

[Doytch]

Wow, this thread sucks.

Pretty much. I decided to wander in here wondering why this was still on the front page.

 

[TheExecutive]

I see everyone is still shitting up this thread quite nicely. Bravo GAF, bravo.

 

[Ardorx]

Read the OP carefully again. Did he really attack valve and their work? Or did he just take a playful jab at Gabe Newell concerning this questionable statements about the PS3?

As a forum notoriously known for going apeshit over a playful jab, OP should have known better.

 

[jcm]

Read Gabe's quote again. He's not talking about multicore in general or saying that Cell is crap or not up to the job. He's saying that it's not worth time or money investing in learning to use the Cell architecture properly because it can't help you to do anything but use the Cell architecture properly. He's talking about the heterogeneous, idiosyncratic architecture of Cell, not simply the fact that it's multicore.

Unless you've work firsthand with Cell, and know for yourself whether those skills are transferable to working with other CPUs, you're basically in no position to refute him. And seeing as how he's the head of one of the leading videogame companies, unless you've got that first-hand experience his word kinda means a little more than your armchair analysis would.

This whole thing is such an inane storm in a teacup.

Have you seen this presentation made by DICE at SIGGRAPH? They're using job-based parallelism in their new engine, and claim it works well in DX11 on PC, as well as on PS3 and 360.

Don't get me wrong, Gabe's a smart guy, and his comments deserve respect, but it's important to remember that he's a guy who has invested millions in a really good game engine that doesn't work well on PS3. Surely that colors his opinion somewhat.

 

[jmdajr]

If Gabe is not interested, then he's not interested. That's all there is to it.

 

[andycapps]

Don't get me wrong, Gabe's a smart guy, and his comments deserve respect, but it's important to remember that he's a guy who has invested millions in a really good game engine that doesn't work well on PS3. Surely that colors his opinion somewhat.

I probably shouldn't feed into this too much, but I'll give it a shot. Valve doesn't need to put games on the PS3. They are making millions and millions off their games and their Steam service. They get buyout offers weekly, and turn them all down because they like being independent and running things their way. Valve has been a traditionally PC developer and they're making a lot of money on the PC. They're not a tremendously huge company so they have finite resources. Plus, they're working on Left 4 Dead 2, most likely Portal 2, probably Half Life 2: Episode 3, as well as updates to Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead. So what they have to weigh is the cost of adapting the Source engine to the Cell processor that requires a lot of optimization to get processes to run smoothly and efficiently. They have to weigh the cost and manpower necessary to port their games to PS3 (given that the PC is their main focus, 360 is just easy to port over due to it's architecture) versus the amount that they can expect to sell on the platform.

For them it's just not worth it. It's not that they couldn't do it, it's just that they don't need to and don't want to. They're independent and can do what they want. If you really want to play their games, get a bunch of 3-4 year old PC parts and put yourself together a PC for a couple hundred bucks, or if you have about $500, put together a decent modern gaming rig that would run them at high settings (check the GAF threads for part info). So yeah, I'm tired of hearing people say that Valve is imcompetent or somehow inferior to Naughty Dog, Guerilla, or Insomniac. Each studio has their focus, and Valve's is PC. It's not like Newell is the first to criticize the PS3's architecture anyway, it's just that he's very outspoken about it and has made their stance well known.

And yes, this thread sucks.

 

[StuBurns]

All that is kind of side stepped by the fact that the Orange Box is on PS3. The engine is ported, and is actually better in certain aspects, the image quality is better, it has AA. The performance isn't locked at 30 on either consoles, but the PS3 takes a hit more often.

However, it's Valve's call. They don't owe PS3 gamers anything, and have said they're interested in doing games for PS3 but they don't have the resources.

As for the quality of the thread, for every post that's off topic but still discussing something, there are five pointless complaints about the thread. That's far worse.

 

[mckmas8808]

Valve is ok with multi-core development, what they don't like are heterogeneous architectures like CELL.

Hey you're back!!! Can you tell us what game you're working on now?

 

[jcm]

I probably shouldn't feed into this too much, but I'll give it a shot. Valve doesn't need to put games on the PS3. They are making millions and millions off their games and their Steam service. They get buyout offers weekly, and turn them all down because they like being independent and running things their way. Valve has been a traditionally PC developer and they're making a lot of money on the PC. They're not a tremendously huge company so they have finite resources. Plus, they're working on Left 4 Dead 2, most likely Portal 2, probably Half Life 2: Episode 3, as well as updates to Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead. So what they have to weigh is the cost of adapting the Source engine to the Cell processor that requires a lot of optimization to get processes to run smoothly and efficiently. They have to weigh the cost and manpower necessary to port their games to PS3 (given that the PC is their main focus, 360 is just easy to port over due to it's architecture) versus the amount that they can expect to sell on the platform.

For them it's just not worth it. It's not that they couldn't do it, it's just that they don't need to and don't want to. They're independent and can do what they want. If you really want to play their games, get a bunch of 3-4 year old PC parts and put yourself together a PC for a couple hundred bucks, or if you have about $500, put together a decent modern gaming rig that would run them at high settings (check the GAF threads for part info). So yeah, I'm tired of hearing people say that Valve is imcompetent or somehow inferior to Naughty Dog, Guerilla, or Insomniac. Each studio has their focus, and Valve's is PC. It's not like Newell is the first to criticize the PS3's architecture anyway, it's just that he's very outspoken about it and has made their stance well known.

And yes, this thread sucks.

I absolutely agree. Valve is quite successful, they have an engine that runs well on PC and 360, and they don't need the PS3.

My point is, when Gabe makes comments about the utility of investing in Cell-friendly algorithms, he's not some sort of oracle whose statements should be taken as gospel truth for the entire industry. He's a businessman. He's talking about what makes sense for him and his company. That doesn't make Valve incompetent or inferior, and I certainly don't mean to imply that they are.