*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

Status
Not open for further replies.

spootime

Member
Jul 27, 2007
1,779
0
0
Really? I thought sending him to Dorne was a good change since nothing really important happens in the Riverlands except Lady Stoneheart who despite Lena Headey hinting at seems to be completely cut from the show. The writers don't seem interested at all in the Freys or Tullys anymore.
Jaime going through the riverlands is the last major catalyst in his transformation as a character. You see him transition someone who thinks with his sword (and his dick) first to someone who learns to think things through (and he realizes that hes pretty good at it). Furthermore you see him realize how toxic his relationship is with Cersei, and eventually end it be ignoring her letter. I mean, we already started this off pretty well in previous seasons when he goes back for Brienne and saves her from the bear. Why not continue this storyline? You dont even need LSH! Although shes awesome!

I really love this transformation in the books because it is so well done, and it makes you like a character that pushes children out of windows. Thats the beauty of GRRMs writing, you really want to like a character despite the horrible things that they have done.

I think the issue with this in the show is that there arent any ~shocking moments~ to slap onto the end of an episode. This journey into Dorne has been fucking terrible so far. Its one step under slapstick comedy, especially with the terrible way this last fight with Jaime and Bronn went. At least have Areo Hotah axe a motherfucker or something, jesus christ.
 
Nov 24, 2007
6,602
0
920
What I don't get is that they know that she knows that they killed her mother and brother, yet don't suspect any treachery.
Maybe they do, though. Ugh, I REALLY hope the old "North Remembers" lady isn't a Ramsay plant (though I love the nickname Gramsay Bolton).
 

Mxrz

Member
Apr 23, 2011
5,642
0
490
The Sand Snakes were silly in the books. Arianne being such a strong presence made it a little more believable. It stressed the whole 'things are different in Dorne.' Without that, they look even sillier live-action.

If nothing else, the show has captured that feeling from the books that Westeros has become a miserable, fucked up place. The horrible people win and all that. The show, with the score and smug looks just makes it so much. . .more. This is game of Thrones.

TV Jorah is more likeable than book Jorah. Probably not going to happen now, but him taking his Father's place on the wall would be something. Maybe its a cliche, but Jorah/Tyrion and Jamie/Bronn are turning into the best things this season.

Tommen is fucked. I thought there might be a chance he survives, but letting crazy cultist take your wife is some kicking the puppy level stuff.

Sparrows seem more imposing than I remember from the books. Maybe its meant to balance out the R'hllor stuff. That'd be +1 to the King Stannis crowd.

Bron being poisoned would be annoying. Show desperately needs some sort of likeable character.

Preview for next week looks less dour, but overall this season could be bleak.
 

Ponn

Banned
Mar 10, 2005
22,854
1
0
Florida
I feel like people are projecting too much of what they want Sansa to be in regards to growth development to how much she has actually grown, books or show-wise. She had little baby steps of accepting she was in a shit position and doing what she needed to do to survive but that doesn't at all mean she takes a magic jump to super manipulator on the level of those "playing the game". Being a survivor in an abusive situation she has been in may make her a strong character in that sense but I feel people are widening their definition of strong character for Sansa to something she has not really shown just to justify their outrage. Sansa is no Dany, she took a different path and thats the path people are projecting on to Sansa which isn't really fitting at all. And Dany was on that path before the dragons.
 

RyanDG

Member
Mar 26, 2007
4,030
0
0
Well, both Ramsay marrying a fake Stark and Sansa being in the Vale are boring storylines.
Ramsay marrying a fake Stark has a shit ton of implications for the book, and also contains the Theon chapters of Dance With Dragons which are by far the most redeeming chapters of that book. I don't know how you can really say it's a boring story line if we haven't seen how they are going to play out yet in the books?
 

Lothar

Banned
Aug 31, 2011
8,821
0
0
Maybe they do, though. Ugh, I REALLY hope the old "North Remembers" lady isn't a Ramsay plant (though I love the nickname Gramsay Bolton).
I hope it is a Ramsay plant, just so the rescue has to be entirely Theon on his own.

Whenever it came out that it was a plant, that would be the perfect time for Theon to help her.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Sep 25, 2005
68,178
3
0
32
You know what all this reminds me of? Rob Zombie's Halloween. Specifically the crass, unnecessary beginning where we learn exactly how young Michael became Michael Myers.
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,953
0
0
You know what all this reminds me of? Rob Zombie's Halloween. Specifically the crass, unnecessary beginning where we learn exactly how young Michael became Michael Myers.
I don't understand how you think the books are subtle about this either. ASOIAF is crass and grotesque in ways the show doesn't even approach.
 

Speevy

Banned
Jun 26, 2004
62,864
0
0
Ramsay marrying a fake Stark has a shit ton of implications for the book, and also contains the Theon chapters of Dance With Dragons which are by far the most redeeming chapters of that book. I don't know how you can really say it's a boring story line if we haven't seen how they are going to play out yet in the books?
It does because this is a show with 7 seasons and Ramsay Bolton is a psychopath who will probably die.

For whatever damage it did to the Winterfell plot, Sansa being there is infinitely more interesting than a character who isn't in the show already. The longer a show goes on, the less welcome new characters become.

Sansa already stood up for herself once in this episode. Now she's lost her innocence. Next, she'll learn how to outmaneuver these horrible men without anyone's help.

How would she become a better character being shielded by the knights of the Vale in seclusion? What would we gain from seeing Ramsay torture another character.

Wouldn't an easier path to Reek's redemption be through telling Sansa that her brothers are alive, and helping her escape, perhaps even killing Ramsay?

You have to understand that this show goes from point A to point G, from G to R, and R to Z. All the points that are so carefully laid out in the books are sacrificed, and so some stuff makes much less sense. However, I'd much rather them cut out ALL fake outs, resurrections, pretend characters, warging, and other stuff that takes screen time from the best characters. This Dorne storyline should have never been featured, but I don't know if I'd trade it for a bunch of people that show Ramsay would have killed already.
 

Purple Cheeto

Member
Aug 28, 2013
11,724
0
0
But he can actually write.
Are we sure about that?

What the fuck are you going on about?
The first three books consist of the only material he planned, it was supposed to be 1 book and he stretched it to 3. Part of the reason he has taken so long to write anything since the first 3 books is he is a self professed "Gardener" and doesn't plan his story ahead and has no map or outline or real idea where he is going.

And since he really has no incentive to figure out what else to do with the story he simply doesn't.
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,953
0
0
The first three books consist of the only material he planned, it was supposed to be 1 book and he stretched it to 3. Part of the reason he has taken so long to write anything since the first 3 books is he is a self professed "Gardener" and doesn't plan his story ahead and has no map or outline or real idea where he is going.

And since he really has no incentive to figure out what else to do with the story he simply doesn't.
You're wrong about the first three books. He didn't plan and outline those either. GRRM always talks about how he started with that first direwolf scene and discovery wrote from there. He wrote the whole series the same way. It just wasn't until after ASOS that the structure of the story collapsed on him.

A lot of the problems of AFFC/ADWD were actually because of how he ended ASOS.
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,953
0
0
You know, for a book series that already had a bunch of rape, they sure enjoy adding a bunch of rape that isn't needed.

Danny/Drogo (wasn't rape in the book)
Jamie/Cersei (wasn't rape in the book)
and now Sansa/Ramsey (wasn't even in the book)
Uh, this existed in the books, the show just put a different character in and made it a lot tamer.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Sep 25, 2005
68,178
3
0
32
Are we sure about that?



The first three books consist of the only material he planned, it was supposed to be 1 book and he stretched it to 3. Part of the reason he has taken so long to write anything since the first 3 books is he is a self professed "Gardener" and doesn't plan his story ahead and has no map or outline or real idea where he is going.

And since he really has no incentive to figure out what else to do with the story he simply doesn't.
But he did plan, the problem is that his plan - ie the five year gap - didn't work. Which resulted in him showing a variety of stuff he had planned on skipping or revealing in exposition.
 

Intheflorsh

Banned
Oct 31, 2012
11,654
0
0
In the future, I think I'll be able to look back and pinpoint the exact moment I mentally checked out of the series... when Bronn had his sword hand caught Harrison Ford style.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Dec 5, 2008
1,789
0
655
I felt the scene itself was actually well done, it certainly achieved the goal of being shocking and traumatic and fucked up.

The problem of course is the storyline which led to the scene. Yes, it makes sense for a monster like Ramsay to rape his new wife. But how does this make sense in Sansa's arc, exactly?
They presented her progression so far as someone who will no longer be a helpless victim, so having her raped after all that sort of takes us a few miles back.

I certainly agree with the people who suggested they should have made her take control, a bit like Dany in the latter part of S1, or TWOW PREVIEW:
Sansa's approach to dealing with Harry the Heir.
But it seems like they decided it was more important to have Theon be present and moved to help Sansa escape, rather than keep Sansa's development on an upward trajectory.

I'll wait and see what they do with this storyline. But If I had to guess, they'll have Sansa kill Ramsay with the desire for the audience to interpret it as some sort of victory for the victim over the abuser or something along those lines.
 

Speevy

Banned
Jun 26, 2004
62,864
0
0
Drogo raping Dany makes a whole lot more sense, given that she is just an innocent girl betrothed to a freaking barbarian.

That was not a bad choice at all.
 

Ponn

Banned
Mar 10, 2005
22,854
1
0
Florida
Because it wasn't. At least the first time, he kept asking her until she said yes.

(Yes, I am aware in the books she was super underage, but at least he didn't just bend her over crying as seems to be the fetish with the show)
10 No's and a yes make a yes?

I always looked at that scene as rape and i'm surprised by people not seeing it as such. She was groomed by her brother and basically sold off as a bride.
 

Panzon

Member
Aug 10, 2009
2,330
0
0
That was hard to watch...

Gotta love the acting on this show but I would love to see Sansa do something of valor. She's the only character who's barely progressing to be better and not always be the victim. It's kind of annoying
 
Status
Not open for further replies.