Support NeoGAF

[Peterthumpa]

This is stupid. If the game breaks even by some thousand of bucks (counting here what was spent with marketing and so on), there's no reason why a third game shouldn't be made, that's stupid logic. There's no reason to have millions in profit, you just have to make a good profit.

Or am I wrong? Isn't this kind of logic used like... everywhere else?

 

[improvise5]

I was hesitant that we would even get a sequel to DS1. But 4-5 million? I guess I can just forget about a DS3. I don't see how it sells that much honestly.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Pretty sure the first one sold over 2 million.

Over multiple years... price cut + sales

Not 2 million with-in a short time frame

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Lots of bad decisions made with regards to some of their other divisions. I do hope that they stay afloat, if only because whatever happens or doesn't happen with Darksiders III, it'd be far worse if Vigil had to be sold off and the game got the Dead Space 3 treatment.

That upad thing really daggered them
Whatever it was called, fuck i forgot the name.

 

[shinobi602]

Over multiple years... price cut + sales

Not 2 million with-in a short time frame

Almost a million and a half in the first month.

 

[Derrick01]

Pretty sure the first one sold over 2 million.

If it did it was barely and over years of heavy price cuts and sales. Revenue is more important than an arbitrary units-sold number unless you're using it to lie to your investors. Like "This game sold 5 million copies *coughat$10acopy*cough".

Almost a million and a half in the first month.

How did it do that when the jaunary 2010 NPDs have the 360 version at #10 with less than 200k?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387389

Europe must have looooved that game.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

If it did it was barely and over years of heavy price cuts and sales. Revenue is more important than an arbitrary units-sold number unless you're using it to lie to your investors. Like "This game sold 5 million copies *coughat$10acopy*cough".



How did it do that when the jaunary 2010 NPDs have the 360 version at #10 with less than 200k?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387389

Europe must have looooved that game.

Probably shipped that much.

Anyway, I'll buy a copy. The game looks pretty good.

 

[NHale]

4mil is not totally insane number...

1.5 mil on xbox 360
1.5 mil on ps3
0.5 mil on pc
and who knows how much on Wii U [launch game, the only game of that genre for that console in foreseeable future...]

They will be lucky if the game sells half of that. IRC Darksiders sold around 2M in all 3 platforms.

Last year, Deus Ex:HR launched in a similar time period, got great reviews, known IP and sold less than 3M copies. This year, THQ wants Darksiders 2 to sell 4-5M? Good luck with that.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Does anything sell that high outside of Halo's, Uncharted's and Cod's? I wish them luck.

 

[Ushojax]

F1 Race Stars is not an anticapated title at all. Darksiders is a game people actually know about.

How much did the first game sell? Under 2m? You are not going to get 2m who never played the first game buying the sequel, 4m is an insane number. The first game wasn't good enough to get that kind of buzz going.

 

[Dysun]

Nice knowing you vigil. Nobody but enthusiasts are interested in ds2 it would be lucky to sell half that number

 

[SparkTR]

Almost a million and a half in the first month.

They shipped 1.2 million in that time frame, not sold. Source.

 

[Grisby]

Crazy number.

Wonder if Vigil put in a decent ending. Just in case there isn't a third.

 

[shinobi602]

How did it do that when the jaunary 2010 NPDs have the 360 version at #10 with less than 200k?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387389

Europe must have looooved that game.

I read that it sold 1.2 mil in the first month.

Edit: Guess it was shipped.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Almost a million and a half in the first month.

It shipped 1.2 million

http://www.gamespot.com/news/darksiders-ships-12-million-as-thq-posts-small-profit-6249436

So how on earth did sell 1.5 million... amazing numbers you pulled out of your ass

 

[Kai Dracon]

God, at sales requirements anymore.

I wonder what the budget of Darksiders II is?

Anyone ever find out what Darksider's budget was?

 

[Cave Johnson]

I can see why they would require such a sales requirement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but THQ is the only company I know of that doesn't have an IP that sells to the equivalent of Assassin's Creed, BF3, GTA. All of the major third-party publishers tend to have that one "franchise" that is a guaranteed hit and I'm pretty sure the budget of these games overshadows most-AAA titles this gen. Darksiders is probably "that" IP to have such a potential, but the appeal simply does not expend to the levels of those franchise I just mentioned.

With a bigger sales return, I can definitely see the scope of DS would be day-and-night compared to what they are releasing currently.

 

[Takuan]

Should probably update the OP with Haydn's posts, since people are poor at reading and continue to echo sentiments that have been posted 10 times over. Yes, he knows 4 mil is a stupid number.

 

[shinobi602]

It shipped 1.2 million

http://www.gamespot.com/news/darksiders-ships-12-million-as-thq-posts-small-profit-6249436

So how on earth did sell 1.5 million... amazing numbers you pulled out of your ass

Chill out, I just misread shipped as sold.

 

[Derrick01]

God, at sales requirements anymore.

I wonder what the budget of Darksiders II is?

Anyone ever find out what Darksider's budget was?

No idea but it has to be fairly bigger. Each of 2's areas are supposedly the size of the entirety of 1's and DS1 was a ~15 hour game.

 

[patapuf]

I don't think Darksiders was projected to sell that much but THQ needs to focus on it's best moneymakers right now and Darksiders is way more likely to get a quick sequel if it surprises in the same way Saint's Row 3 did.

at least that's how i understood the comment.

 

[MMaRsu]

So unreasonable omg

 

[NHale]

This is stupid. If the game breaks even by some thousand of bucks (counting here what was spent with marketing and so on), there's no reason why a third game shouldn't be made, that's stupid logic. There's no reason to have millions in profit, you just have to make a good profit.

Or am I wrong? Isn't this kind of logic used like... everywhere else?

Depends on what's your definition of good profit. Is it 5% or 20% of invested money, because you don't make 20-25M investments to make only a 500k of profit, it's not worth the risk because most likely you will end up losing a big bunch of the money invested in the sequel. Just ask THQ about UDraw.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I don't think Darksiders was projected to sell that much but THQ needs to focus on it's best moneymakers right now and Darksiders is way more likely to get a quick sequel if it surprises in the same way Saint's Row 3 did.

at least that's how i understood the comment.

You never put sale milestones and release it to the public at full disclosure, it's asking for trouble

Now everyone will be watching the sales, any inkling of under-performing the doom & gloom starts

 

[Hindle]

I think they will sell 4m tbh, there is a postive buzz about the game so its manageble.

 

[chertipros]

Well i know i'll do my part. I highly doubt thq's ceo would not green light a darksiders 3 even if this is a moderate success though. Darksiders has a good fanbase and is one of the strongest ip's thq still has. I do not see them dropping the series anytime soon

 

[DR2K]

I won't even sell half that.

 

[Hindle]

The game is easily marketable, and they have a tagline that will sell as well.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Well i know i'll do my part. I highly doubt thq's ceo would not green light a darksiders 3 even if this is a moderate success though. Darksiders has a good fanbase and is one of the strongest ip's thq still has. I do not see them dropping the series anytime soon

Jason hated the direction Saint's Row The Third went...

It did do very well, made money for THQ + gave them good PR, but nope it doesn't interest the head of THQ...

When you are asking a 2 million+ seller DS Franchise to double up there sales, with less advertising and the IP hanging in the balance due to certain milestones.... yeah

The game is easily marketable, and they have a tagline that will sell as well.

lolwut?

Tagline sells games now?

"What starts with War, ends with Death", yeah only would matter to those who played the first, to most it would mean a regular saying

Borderlands 2 will go onto sell 10 million copies due to their tagline "Blow @#!% Up!", they censored a curse word!

 

[BlazinAm]

4mil is not totally insane number...

1.5 mil on xbox 360
1.5 mil on ps3
0.5 mil on pc
and who knows how much on Wii U [launch game, the only game of that genre for that console in foreseeable future...]

Those are some high sales targets. i would say that PC could probably do 100,000 units and that is being very generous. Given sales of game this year i would cut your console numbers in half just to be safe(This depends entirely on word of mouth and good marketing). As for the wii u port around 50,000... because lets be real who is going to buy that game when it out on other more establish platforms.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Depends on what's your definition of good profit. Is it 5% or 20% of invested money, because you don't make 20-25M investments to make only a 500k of profit, it's not worth the risk because most likely you will end up losing a big bunch of the money invested in the sequel. Just ask THQ about UDraw.

Yeah, I know. But I suppose that, although a bigger game in scope, the budget for Darksiders II wasn't so much bigger than DS1 since (I presume) a lot of assets and work in general were reused.

Also, let's do the math... 2 million copies x US$ 50 = US$ 100.000.000. Isn't that profitable enough?

(and here I'm presuming that the game costs US$ 50 for all platforms AND that it sells half of what they're aiming).

 

[ironcreed]

Anyone who yearns for an old school single player game the likes of Zelda or Soul Reaver design-wise owes it to themselves to buy this. Only this is that sort of design on steroids because of how much more is added to it. Classic POP style platforming, RPG elements that offers tons of loot and customization, skill trees, a huge open world, side quests, etc. I know I don't want developers to get disenchanted with making games like this, does anyone else?

Launch trailer for those who have not yet seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xetMI-J_9Q&feature=g-user-u

 

[Dascu]

I would be perfectly fine with a new entry to the franchise that is smaller in scope. Perhaps some kind of merging of roguelike gameplay with a the concept of one, big dungeon that gradually opens up?

 

[shinobi602]

I think you guys saying it won't even sell half that are going a little too far. The first sold nicely for a brand new IP among dozens of other AAA games at the time. This time around, the marketing is ramped up to the max, it has excellent mind-share among gamers now, it has established itself, and is a known name now. Not even selling 2 mil across 4 platforms?

Comeonson.gif

 

[Hindle]

I'd be fine with them slimming it down but having levels with different paths and ways. Darksiders is a franchise that borrows, so for future games have a look at Deus Ex.

 

[BlazinAm]

Yeah, I know. But I suppose that, although a bigger game in scope, the budget for Darksiders II wasn't so much bigger than DS1 since (I presume) a lot of assets and work in general were reused.

Also, let's do the math... 2 million copies x US$ 50 = US$ 100.000.000. Isn't that profitable enough?

(and here I'm presuming that the game costs US$ 50 for all platforms AND that it sells half of what they're aiming).

Publisher/ developers get about half of the sticker price. Lets use the $60 selling price and they are going to get about $30 per copy shipped/sold so 4mil x 30= $120 million. THQ is probably looking to fund a sequel, another game, and cover operation costs with this game, so the sales expectation is really high.

 

[NHale]

Also, let's do the math... 2 million copies x US$ 50 = US$ 100.000.000. Isn't that profitable enough?

(and here I'm presuming that the game costs US$ 50 for all platforms AND that it sells half of what they're aiming).

Publisher doesn't get $50 or $60 for each game sold. There is a retailer margin, royalty, tax.

 

[DieH@rd]

OK, now we know that Vigil is not under pressure to sell 4-5 million copies of the game.That number was pulled out form HDN-s ass as an example, and THQ would be happy if they even break even or earn a little.

Its a shame that majority of the GAF will enter into this thread and ignore his comments. :-/

Those are some high sales targets. i would say that PC could probably do 100,000 units and that is being very generous. Given sales of game this year i would cut your console numbers in half just to be safe(This depends entirely on word of mouth and good marketing). As for the wii u port around 50,000... because lets be real who is going to buy that game when it out on other more establish platforms.

At least now we have a way to somewhat measure game's success on the PC. We will see 2 big spikes in the DS2 player base on Steam, once for NA and once EU release window.

 

[NHale]

OK, now we know that Vigil is not under pressure to sell 4-5 million copies of the game.That number was pulled out form HDN-s ass as an example, and THQ would be happy if they even break even or earn a little.

Its a shame that majority of the GAF will enter into this thread and ignore his comments. :-/

Or now he fully realized that sales expectations are confidential and it's backtracking because he shouldn't have said it publicly. There is no way to know what is true, but I do find it strange that he especifically said 4-5M sold and even what would be a possible design for a sequel.

 

[BlazinAm]

OK, now we know that Vigil is not under pressure to sell 4-5 million copies of the game.That number was pulled out form HDN-s ass as an example, and THQ would be happy if they even break even or earn a little.

Its a shame that majority of the GAF will enter into this thread and ignore his comments. :-/

That's a good point, I would really like to know what the sales have to be for Vigil to stay open. I am assuming that it can't be that far off. If THQ ends up not continuing the Darksiders' name I wonder what is the point of keeping Vigil? To finish up the Warhammer product?

 

[ironcreed]

I think you guys saying it won't even sell half that are going a little too far. The first sold nicely for a brand new IP among dozens of other AAA games at the time. This time around, the marketing is ramped up to the max, it has excellent mind-share among gamers now, it has established itself, and is a known name now. Not even selling 2 mil across 4 platforms?

Comeonson.gif

Given that, plus how much more grand this is looking than the first one, it should be expected to do much, much better. Still not convinced it can do 4-5 million, but I will stretch my estimate to 3 million max out of hope. Which under nomal circumstances would be considered fantastic. Still realistically expecting no more than 2 million, though. Which is still damn good.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Let me just make this clear, Jason or THQ, have not set a ridiculous high target of 4-5 million units to sell..because, well, that's just insane. Our goal as developers is to make the most fun games. Publishers have to make money with commercially viable product. It's not rocket science. If Darksiders II comes out, more than covers it's costs and is considered a great success by the Publishers, it makes a very compelling reason to do something else with that franchise.

Simple as that.

H

Yeah, quoting this here again to ease everyone's feelings. Thanks HDN.
And my part is done, pre-ordered =)

Question, if possible to answer, and kinda offtopic... I heard on the official forums that DS2 won't support 3D Vision... is there a reason for that? Isn't the engine the same as DS1? DS1 was amazing in 3D.

 

[wrowa]

I wouldn't be surprised if in terms of sold copies the PC version of DS1 actually outsold the PS3 and 360 versions.

 

[BlazinAm]

OK, now we know that Vigil is not under pressure to sell 4-5 million copies of the game.That number was pulled out form HDN-s ass as an example, and THQ would be happy if they even break even or earn a little.

Its a shame that majority of the GAF will enter into this thread and ignore his comments. :-/



At least now we have a way to somewhat measure game's success on the PC. We will see 2 big spikes in the DS2 player base on Steam, once for NA and once EU release window.

Big spikes on the PC market are associated with major price drops/sales, dropping the price is hard for a company with their situation.

 

[DieH@rd]

Big spikes on the PC market are associated with major price drops/sales, dropping the price is hard for a company with their situation.

But we will have average number of active PLAYERS and peak daily numbers, not number of buyers who react on pricedrops.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?snr=1_4_4__110

 

[Neuromancer]

In Vigil I trust.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yeah, quoting this here again to ease everyone's feelings. Thanks HDN.
And my part is done, pre-ordered =)

Question, if possible to answer, and kinda offtopic... I heard on the official forums that DS2 won't support 3D Vision... is there a reason for that? Isn't the engine the same as DS1? DS1 was amazing in 3D.

PC version of Darksiders 1 was a part of "AMD - Future is Fusion" program. I belive that it will have good 3D, same as 1st one. I never had a chance to play anything in 3D, except in few 2min test sessions at my neighbor.

 

[BlazinAm]

But we will have average number of active PLAYERS and peak daily numbers, not number of buyers who react on pricedrops.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?snr=1_4_4__110

Oh sorry I was referring to sales rate not active players.

 

[JumpingTheGun]

They'll be lucky to sell a million at 59.99. Let's be serious here.

And Sleeping Dogs won't affect its sales because that game is not going to sell much either.

 

[DieH@rd]

They'll be lucky to sell a million at 59.99. Let's be serious here.

They did that with the 1st game.