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Washington Post: What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

Wulfric

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Nov 17, 2014
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So I just want to clarify. Leftists think that doing something illegal in a country should be allowed? This is what happens when you don't respect another country. This is what happens when you break the law. I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.

what the fuck did I just read.
 

pramod

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Oct 24, 2017
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All these threads and no one has any solutions except "Stop doing it". What is the alternative? Jail the kids with the parents? Or simply not enforce the laws at all and continue "catch and release" these people, basically giving them a free pass to the USA?

Or if you feel so badly about these families, why don't u start a Gofundme to build nice comfy detention centers to house all of them while they wait for asylum processing. We only have to house about couple of hundred thousand a year at this rate.
 

chaos789

Banned
Nov 21, 2012
784
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So I just want to clarify. Leftists think that doing something illegal in a country should be allowed? This is what happens when you don't respect another country. This is what happens when you break the law. I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.

Wow, you must be quite the humanitarian. I hope you do not have children of your own.
 

Bill O'Rights

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Dec 5, 2017
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....I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.


I'm tempted to close this thread as it's veered into something completely different to what it was. ickythingz ickythingz I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Some of these immigrants end up here because they are fleeing wars. Wars in which Western countries are allies.


Also when domestic fruit markets or healthcare can be easily affected by a lack of immigrants per year then I'd suggest they do have some value to the local economy and domestic GDP.


I'll let it run longer can we please set a direction and stick to it.
 

rokkerkory

Member
Sep 2, 2013
16,509
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All these threads and no one has any solutions except "Stop doing it". What is the alternative? Jail the kids with the parents? Or simply not enforce the laws at all and continue "catch and release" these people, basically giving them a free pass to the USA?

Or if you feel so badly about these families, why don't u start a Gofundme to build nice comfy detention centers to house all of them while they wait for asylum processing. We only have to house about couple of hundred thousand a year at this rate.

Ok then what’s your solution you’re offering?
 

JKRMA

Banned
Feb 5, 2010
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Unless you are native, this country is not really yours. So when your ancestors came here, pretty sure they were viewed as worthless and that you will be worthless as well. WHO ARE YOU to say who should bem allowed in this country. It's a country built off of immigrants and all of a sudden now immigrants are viewed as "infesting" the country. Sounds like elitism to me. The good old "I got mine therefore fuck you"
 

JordanN

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Unless you are native, this country is not really yours. So when your ancestors came here, pretty sure they were viewed as worthless and that you will be worthless as well. WHO ARE YOU to say who should bem allowed in this country. It's a country built off of immigrants and all of a sudden now immigrants are viewed as "infesting" the country. Sounds like elitism to me. The good old "I got mine therefore fuck you"

Name the country that existed before the USA? What was their laws, borders and infrastructure like?
The USA is a sovereign country built by Americans for Americans. No illegal immigrant can tell them what land is not theirs.

And if you're moving to a country you hate, what does that tell you? America is so evil, yet no one wants to go live in Mexico or Honduras instead?
 
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JKRMA

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The one thing i take away from this post other than you being disengenous is you said the country was made for Americans. So self centred. So by that statement you made, the country was made for South Americans, Central Americans and even Canadians?

If someone can post that these children who are being held hostage have no value, then I can go ahead and say it is you who has no value. You can't even acknowledge your country is essentially stolen land, what happened was not too different than the Nazis goal, and slaves put in more work to make your country than probably your ancestors did.
 
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JordanN

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So displacing a native population is ok if they don't have a government?
The Natives were already at war with each other. When the USA does it, they're the bad guy somehow.
And I asked for a country. I'm pretty sure New York City did not exist without Americans building it.

The one thing i take away from this post other than you being disengenous is you said the country was made for Americans.
Is Japan evil too because they built their country for the Japanese? Why is no one hopping their borders and demanding the Japanese get lost?
Double standards are at play. Don't like the USA, yet you beg for illegal immigrants to move there somehow instead of the other 100 countries on this earth.
 

DKehoe

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Jun 19, 2007
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The Natives were already at war with each other. When the USA does it, they're the bad guy somehow.
And I asked for a country. I'm pretty sure New York City did not exist without Americans building it.

So, if these current immigrants wiped out the current US inhabitants and built even more advanced cities that would be ok? Immigration should only be allowed if you commit genocide?

Is Japan evil too because they built their country for the Japanese? Why is no one hopping their borders and demanding the Japanese get lost?
Double standards are at play. Don't like the USA, yet you beg for illegal immigrants to move there somehow instead of the other 100 countries on this earth.

What's the deal with your obsession with Japan? From what you have said in the thread about race/intelligence thread you don't even seem to know much about there.
 

JKRMA

Banned
Feb 5, 2010
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The Natives were already at war with each other. When the USA does it, they're the bad guy somehow.
And I asked for a country. I'm pretty sure New York City did not exist without Americans building it.



Is Japan evil too because they built their country for the Japanese? Why is no one hopping their borders and demanding the Japanese get lost?
Double standards are at play. Don't like the USA, yet you beg for illegal immigrants to move there somehow instead of the other 100 countries on this earth.

Oh, so if two people are fighting, it is okay to rob them. Got it. Isn't the United States not so United nowadays? I guess that means come on over other countries, it is okay to commit the wordy crimes!

This is not about Japan. Japan has their own issues which we can have a seperate conversation about. This is about the USA.
 
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JordanN

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So, if these current immigrants wiped out the current US inhabitants and built even more advanced cities that would be ok? Immigration should only be allowed if you commit genocide?

Will they? I thought they were asylum seekers/refugees, now they're literally futuristic space engineers? Why come to America then when you got all the tools to improve your own country?
And luckily, America has a 2nd amendment so they don't get wiped out without having a say in it.

DKehoe said:
What's the deal with your obsession with Japan?

Conveniently, every discussion about illegal immigration always seems to ignore countries that do have tight border control. It's completely appropriate to ask why does Japan get a pass, but only America has to be open borders?

JKRMA said:
Oh, so if two people are fighting, it is okay to rob them. Got it. Isn't the United States not so United nowadays? I guess that means come on over other countries, it is okay to commit the wordy crimes!

This is not about Japan. Japan has their own issues which we can have a seperate conversation about. This is about the USA.
It's absolutely bizarre that America is held accountable for conquest when the history of the world has literally shown borders were drawn up after one country invaded the other.
We just live in a time now that several sovereign countries are officially recognized, and thus if you attempt to change it, prepare to be sanctioned or face war.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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Is Japan evil too because they built their country for the Japanese? Why is no one hopping their borders and demanding the Japanese get lost?
Double standards are at play. Don't like the USA, yet you beg for illegal immigrants to move there somehow instead of the other 100 countries on this earth.

Japan is an extremely densely populated homogeneous monolinguistic ethnic and cultural hegemony...island state?

USA is the uhhh other thing, please don't make me type it out lol?

Two standards for two completely different scenarios. How do you hop borders onto an island in the Pacific...? At any rate, Japan is openly racist toward foreigners and foreign ethnicities in general. It's way homogeneous, ~97% ethnic Japanese or so (iirc). You do get spotted immediately and treated like an outsider whether you hopped out of the ocean or were born there of a different background. Far from ideal.

The severe lack of immigration and lack of procreation are gonna RIP the entire country pretty soon at this rate. Generational population size can evaporate real quickly with a low birth rate and no immigration. They had to lower admission requirements across the top universities a while back iirc since there weren't enough applicants who could pass the entrance exams and fill the student bodies properly.
 

JordanN

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Japan is an extremely densely populated homogeneous monolinguistic ethnic and cultural hegemony...island state?

Two standards for two completely different scenarios. How do you hop borders onto an island in the Pacific...? At any rate, Japan is openly racist toward foreigners and foreign ethnicities in general. It's way homogeneous, ~97% ethnic Japanese or so (iirc). You do get spotted immediately and treated like an outsider whether you hopped out of the ocean or were born there of a different background. Far from ideal.
If people from Nigeria can still illegally immigrate all the way to Canada, then there's nothing stopping the people of South America from going to Japan.
Heck, with today's technology, you can already do so with just a plane ticket.

And Japan is homogeneous, but so was the USA. It's only after 1965 did we see the demographics become the way they are today.
 

DKehoe

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Will they? I thought they were asylum seekers/refugees, now they're literally futuristic space engineers? Why come to America then when you got all the tools to improve your own country?
And luckily, America has a 2nd amendment so they don't get wiped out without having a say in it.

Your argument was that it was fine for Europeans to come over and wipe out Native Americans because they then built New York. I'm asking you to apply that same logic to this current situation. Let's say we tweak it slightly, China is due to overtake the US as the most powerful country. If years from now the US and Canada got in a war, would it be ok for China to invade both, wipe them out and settle it for themselves? Then when someone criticises them for it, China could just say "but the white people were already fighting amongst themselves. And we've built cooler shit than they ever could. What's the big deal?"

And Japan is homogeneous, but so was the USA. It's only after 1965 did we see the demographics become the way they are today.

The US was homogeneous? What alternate reality are you living in?
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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And Japan is homogeneous, but so was the USA. It's only after 1965 did we see the demographics become the way they are today.

Pretty sure that's not the year color TV debuted, JordanN. ;b
 

JKRMA

Banned
Feb 5, 2010
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Will they? I thought they were asylum seekers/refugees, now they're literally futuristic space engineers? Why come to America then when you got all the tools to improve your own country?
And luckily, America has a 2nd amendment so they don't get wiped out without having a say in it.



Conveniently, every discussion about illegal immigration always seems to ignore countries that do have tight border control. It's completely appropriate to ask why does Japan get a pass, but only America has to be open borders?


It's absolutely bizarre that America is held accountable for conquest when the history of the world has literally shown borders were drawn up after one country invaded the other.
We just live in a time now that several sovereign countries are officially recognized, and thus if you attempt to change it, prepare to be sanctioned or face war.


One: Your country is not called America. It is part of North America, a continent you share. There is also South America.

Two: Your mindset is what I would like to point out. "Why does only America expect to have open borders." No one is saying that it has to have open Borders, and then being self centred bout the whole, "only America!"
 

JordanN

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Your argument was that it was fine for Europeans to come over and wipe out Native Americans because they then built New York. I'm asking you to apply that same logic to this current situation. Let's say we tweak it slightly, China is due to overtake the US as the most powerful country. If years from now the US and Canada got in a war, would it be ok for China to invade both, wipe them out and settle it for themselves? Then when someone criticises them for it, China could just say "but the white people were already fighting amongst themselves. What's the big deal?"
I don't care what's fine. Demonizing America for doing what every other country did before we had international treaties just looks hypocritical. The land now belongs to the people who conquered it. They're not going to give it up peacefully.
If China wants to colonize America, they better have a solution for all the ICBMs America has stockpiled.

DKehoe said:
The US was homogeneous? What alternate reality are you living in?
1940


One: Your country is not called America.
Are we really doing this?


JKRMA said:
Two: Your mindset is what I would like to point out. "Why does only America expect to have open borders."
Then start asking all the other 100 countries to take the immigrants instead? In fact, why aren't they doing it? America must be really charitable if the rest of the world is ignoring the migration crisis happening in South America.

Where? How? Is this the whites were a majority thing again? They still are.
It has dropped significantly and if they keep illegal immigration, it obviously wont be the majority in the future.
 
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DKehoe

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I don't care what's fine. Demonizing America for doing what every other country did before we had international treaties just looks hypocritical.
If China wants to colonize America, they better have a solution for all the ICBMs America has stockpiled.

Lol I just picked China because they will become more advanced than the US at some point in the near future. I was just using them as a hypothetical example. I didn't expect an "I'd like to see them try it" response.

What do you think homogeneous means?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
The Natives were already at war with each other. When the USA does it, they're the bad guy somehow.
And I asked for a country. I'm pretty sure New York City did not exist without Americans building it.

Even if you don't want to recognize governments and laws that do not cleanly align with the anglo-saxon definitions, then surely you know about the British colonies. They controlled New York for over 100 years and it was a bustling city with government and law. The United States of America only came about through sedition--you know, breaking the law of the land and revolting.
 
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JordanN

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Even if you don't want to recognize governments and laws that do not cleanly align with the anglo-saxon definitions, then surely you know about the British colonies? They controlled New York for over 100 years and it was a bustling city with government and law. The United States of America only came into be through sedition--you know, breaking the law of the land and revolting.
And they succeeded and Britain backed off.
If you're saying illegal immigrants have a right to invade sovereign borders and declare war against the American people, Americans will defend themselves like any other country under threat of losing territory.

But the most interesting part about this discussion is so many posters want to see the destruction of the USA. Why are you forcing people there and not attempting to send them to other countries? It's quite clear this controversy wont end unless America either defends its border properly with a wall, or just give up and allow every person to flood in. This détente can't go on forever, but you only want to agitate the situation instead of working up a solution.

From a humanitarian stand point, open borders will lead to a lot more loss of life instead of America just closing off its borders permanently and only allowing legal migrants inside.
 
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Japan is an extremely densely populated homogeneous monolinguistic ethnic and cultural hegemony...island state?

USA is the uhhh other thing, please don't make me type it out lol?

Two standards for two completely different scenarios. How do you hop borders onto an island in the Pacific...? At any rate, Japan is openly racist toward foreigners and foreign ethnicities in general. It's way homogeneous, ~97% ethnic Japanese or so (iirc). You do get spotted immediately and treated like an outsider whether you hopped out of the ocean or were born there of a different background. Far from ideal.

The severe lack of immigration and lack of procreation are gonna RIP the entire country pretty soon at this rate. Generational population size can evaporate real quickly with a low birth rate and no immigration. They had to lower admission requirements across the top universities a while back iirc since there weren't enough applicants who could pass the entrance exams and fill the student bodies properly.

This is essentially a facsimile of what I said about Japan in the thread about Italy.

Like China's one-child policy serves as a lesson on eugenics for the rest of the world as it doesn't even have enough women in the country for all the single men, and they're now importing (legally and also trafficking) foreign women to make up the difference, so too will we see what happens to a country like Japan that celebrates its homogeneous hegemony while failing to reproduce.
 
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Dev1lXYZ

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My ancestors came to this country lawfully. They filled out the proper documentation, paid their dues and came over and worked hard. The problem at hand is that there are too many people that aren’t doing this. They get in and have no skills, no formal education, and put a drain on our resources. It’s costing us way too much money, crime is going up in areas around the border, and frankly we are sick of it.

No more.
 

DKehoe

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But the most interesting part about this discussion is so many posters want to see the destruction of the USA. Why are you forcing people there and not attempting to send them to other countries? It's quite clear this controversy wont end unless America either defends its border properly with a wall, or just give up and allow every person to flood in. This détente can't go on forever, but you only want to agitate the situation instead of working up a solution.

Do you really think that everyone disagreeing with you in this thread literally wants to see the destruction of the USA?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
And they succeeded and Britain backed off.
If you're saying illegal immigrants have a right to invade sovereign borders and declare war against the American people, Americans will defend themselves like any other country under threat of losing territory.

But the most interesting part about this discussion is so many posters want to see the destruction of the USA. Why are you forcing people there and not attempting to send them to other countries? It's quite clear this controversy wont end unless America either defends its border properly with a wall, or just give up and allow every person to flood in. This detente can't go on forever, but you only want to agitate the situation instead of working up a solution.

"Britain backed off." I only bring this up because you wrote "What was their laws, borders and infrastructure like?" Even if you show such disdain for the native population and think our forefathers were justified in slaughtering them and taking the land on which they lived, surely you would have more sympathy for the law-abiding white people who controlled the country before The United States of America became a thing.

You're delusional if you think any large amount of people (relatively) want to see the destruction of America. Just because they don't agree with heartless policies that obviously favor certain ethnicities and nationalities over others does not mean that they want America do be destroyed. Positive change, as they see it? Sure.

I really don't see what you expect a wall to do. A 2,000 mile wall cannot be maintained without an immense staffing up of permanent guards and maintenance staff. We can barely keep our infrastructure together in other parts of country. What makes you think a wall like this would be a realistic solution to anything and that it would actually stop people from getting in?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
"Britain backed off." I only bring this up because you wrote "What was their laws, borders and infrastructure like?" Even if you show such disdain for the native population and think our forefathers were justified in slaughtering them and taking the land on which they lived, surely you would have more sympathy for the law-abiding white people who controlled the country before The United States of America became a thing.

You're delusional if you think any large amount of people (relatively) want to see the destruction of America. Just because they don't agree with heartless policies that obviously favor certain ethnicities and nationalities over others does not mean that they want America do be destroyed. Positive change, as they see it? Sure.

I really don't see what you expect a wall to do. A 2,000 mile wall cannot be maintained without an immense staffing up of permanent guards and maintenance staff. We can barely keep our infrastructure together in other parts of country. What makes you think a wall like this would be a realistic solution to anything and that it would actually stop people from getting in?

My ancestors came to this country lawfully. They filled out the proper documentation, paid their dues and came over and worked hard. The problem at hand is that there are too many people that aren’t doing this. They get in and have no skills, no formal education, and put a drain on our resources. It’s costing us way too much money, crime is going up in areas around the border, and frankly we are sick of it.

No more.

I'd imagine most of them work a hell of a lot harder than the typical welfare-receiving opioid addict "citizens" that are increasing in number every day. Not that we should ignore the opioid addiction problem and focus on supporting illegal immigrants, but if you want to talk about "no skills, no education, and being a drain on resources," then you don't have to look very far inside our own country.
 

Max Legroom

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My ancestors came to this country lawfully. They filled out the proper documentation, paid their dues and came over and worked hard. The problem at hand is that there are too many people that aren’t doing this. They get in and have no skills, no formal education, and put a drain on our resources. It’s costing us way too much money, crime is going up in areas around the border, and frankly we are sick of it.

No more.

This seems unlikely. Prior to the 1900s, unless you were Chinese, you could basically just show up, they might change your name to something less "ethnic," and off you'd go. Most immigrants had little to no skills and no education either.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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What makes you think a wall like this would be a realistic solution to anything and that it would actually stop people from getting in?


Walls have worked throughout history. Mexico even has one at their southern border. China’s is world renown. America needs one or two. We need to be able to see it from space. The Great Wall of The United States. It has a nice ring to it.
 

JordanN

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Do you really think that everyone disagreeing with you in this thread literally wants to see the destruction of the USA?
"America has no land! It all belongs to the Natives! Look what happen to the Natives! America is a big meanie!"

If that's not calling for the U.S destruction by saying the people who created it are now illegitimate, then what is?
There are more than 10 million illegal immigrants and that number is only going to keep increasing unless they finally seal off the border and start deporting people. It's absolutely fair for America to not want its resources drained away by people who are not even suppose to be there in the first place.

"Britain backed off." I only bring this up because you wrote "What was their laws, borders and infrastructure like?" Even if you show such disdain for the native population and think our forefathers were justified in slaughtering them and taking the land on which they lived, surely you would have more sympathy for the law-abiding white people who controlled the country before The United States of America became a thing.

The British fought a war and lost. I don't really care about them since the U.S demanded Independence and it's own government, and it got just that.

Zefah said:
You're delusional if you think any large amount of people (relatively) want to see the destruction of America. Just because they don't agree with heartless policies that obviously favor certain ethnicities and nationalities over others does not mean that they want America do be destroyed. Positive change, as they see it? Sure.

It's more heartless to bring people from a completely different culture into a country they have no connection to. And that's the kicker. America is not Brazil or Mexico. They don't speak the same language and they have a completely different culture. You have to force the destruction of the USA in order to make this country look like where they came from.

Plenty of latin American countries that have more similarities to one another. The USA is not one of them.

Zefah said:
I really don't see what you expect a wall to do. A 2,000 mile wall cannot be maintained without an immense staffing up of permanent guards and maintenance staff. We can barely keep our infrastructure together in other parts of country. What makes you think a wall like this would be a realistic solution to anything and that it would actually stop people from getting in?
Doesn't matter. You have a door to your house, you know when someone tries to break inside instead of just leaving it open.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Walls have worked throughout history. Mexico even has one at their southern border. China’s is world renown. America needs one or two. We need to be able to see it from space. The Great Wall of The United States. It has a nice ring to it.

You really just brought up the Great Wall of China in the context of modern times? It wasn't even that effective in ancient times.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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This seems unlikely. Prior to the 1900s, unless you were Chinese, you could basically just show up, they might change your name to something less "ethnic," and off you'd go. Most immigrants had little to no skills and no education either.

Americans encouraged relatively free and open immigration during the 18th and early 19th centuries, and rarely questioned that policy until the late 1800s. After certain states passed immigration laws following the Civil War, the Supreme Court in 1875 declared regulation of immigration a federal responsibility. Thus, as the number of immigrants rose in the 1880s and economic conditions in some areas worsened, Congress began to pass immigration legislation

https://www.uscis.gov/history-and-g...y-history/early-american-immigration-policies

Hmmm. Worsening econic conditions gave rise to federal immigration laws in 1875. Isn’t it telling how free immigration gave rise to this?
 

JKRMA

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"America has no land! It all belongs to the Natives! Look what happen to the Natives! America is a big meanie!"

If that's not calling for the U.S destruction by saying the people who created it are now illegitimate, then what is?
There are more than 10 million illegal immigrants and that number is only going to keep increasing unless they finally seal off the border and start deporting people. It's absolutely fair for America to not want its resources drained away by people who are not even suppose to be there in the first place.



The British fought a war and lost. I don't really care about them since the U.S demanded Independence and it's own government, and it got just that.



It's more heartless to bring people from a completely different culture into a country they have no connection to. And that's the kicker. America is not Brazil or Mexico. They don't speak the same language and they have a completely different culture. You have to force the destruction of the USA in order to make this country look like where they came from.

Plenty of latin American countries that have more similarities to one another. The USA is not one of them.


Doesn't matter. You have a door to your house, you know when someone tries to break inside instead of just leaving it open.

What is this USA(not so US) culture that must be protected you speak of? You realize people immigrate/emigrate to other countries all the time and those countries are just fine? You are a hypocrite anyways as the US is an immigrant based country. I was recently in Venice who have a relatively large Indian population. Still seemed and felt like Venice to me just as one example.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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You really just brought up the Great Wall of China in the context of modern times? It wasn't even that effective in ancient times.

In short, the Great Wall was very effective because
- it limited the point of attack to (relatively) few gates instead anywhere along the Chinese northern border
- it gave infantry dominated Chinese garrison a fighting chance against mostly cavalry-based nomadic invaders.
- it in effect eliminated small scale raid inside the wall because Chinese garrison could seal off the gate and deal with invaders in Chinese's own turf. My limited knowledge in Chinese history, I have not recall any recorded raid inside the wall with less than 10,000 men.
- The wall is not non-permeable. This perhaps is the one of major misconception that the Great Wall was not effective. The wall itself couldn't stop large-scale invasion. But even with large army, invading force either need to spare forces to keep the gate open (something nomads are not as good at doing so), or need to preserve enough strength to fight its way back. Thus makes laying a siege to a city inside the wall relatively difficult. There are numerous Mongols and Manchus' failed siege as examples.


It was very effective for the day. Just like ours will be.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
"America has no land! It all belongs to the Natives! Look what happen to the Natives! America is a big meanie!"

If that's not calling for the U.S destruction by saying the people who created it are now illegitimate, then what is?

Nothing wrong with recognizing the sins of our forefathers and saying we probably shouldn't do anything like that as a moral society going forward.

The British fought a war and lost. I don't really care about them since the U.S demanded Independence and it's own government, and it got just that.

Might makes right, then?

It's more heartless to bring people from a completely different culture into a country they have no connection to.

You mean like most people who immigrated to America throughout its history?

And that's the kicker. America is not Brazil or Mexico. They don't speak the same language and they have a completely different culture. You have to force the destruction of the USA in order to make this country look like where they came from.

Brazil and Mexico do not speak the same language or share the same culture. This is ridiculous.

Plenty of latin American countries that have more similarities to one another. The USA is not one of them.

There are plenty of parts of the US that have deeply ingrained Latin American culture. Whether you like it or not, those parts are American and help define what the country is.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

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It was very effective for the day. Just like ours will be.

No, it really wasn't considering the time and resources it took to build. It prevented very few invaders from entering. You can read up on it if you like, but I won't hold my breath.
 
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404Ender

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In short, the Great Wall was very effective because
- it limited the point of attack to (relatively) few gates instead anywhere along the Chinese northern border
- it gave infantry dominated Chinese garrison a fighting chance against mostly cavalry-based nomadic invaders.
- it in effect eliminated small scale raid inside the wall because Chinese garrison could seal off the gate and deal with invaders in Chinese's own turf. My limited knowledge in Chinese history, I have not recall any recorded raid inside the wall with less than 10,000 men.
- The wall is not non-permeable. This perhaps is the one of major misconception that the Great Wall was not effective. The wall itself couldn't stop large-scale invasion. But even with large army, invading force either need to spare forces to keep the gate open (something nomads are not as good at doing so), or need to preserve enough strength to fight its way back. Thus makes laying a siege to a city inside the wall relatively difficult. There are numerous Mongols and Manchus' failed siege as examples.


It was very effective for the day. Just like ours will be.

You really love copy/pasting wholesale without attributing, lol. At least it's not rumormillnews.com or abovetopsecret this time.

https://www.quora.com/How-effective-was-the-Great-Wall-of-China
 

JordanN

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What is this USA(not so US) culture that must be protected you speak of? You realize people immigrate/emigrate to other countries all the time and those countries are just fine? You are a hypocrite anyways as the US is an immigrant based country. I was recently in Venice who have a relatively large Indian population. Still seemed and felt like Venice to me just as one example.
America has its own constitution, its own laws, its own ways of doing things.

Zefah said:
Nothing wrong with recognizing the sins of our forefathers and saying we probably shouldn't do anything like that as a moral society going forward.
America is nearly 250 years old. What happened in the past has no bearing on how a sovereign country defends itself.

Zefah said:
You mean like most people who immigrated to America throughout its history?
No. America was founded by Europeans. They have more in common with them than Mexico.

Zefah said:
Brazil and Mexico do not speak the same language or share the same culture. This is ridiculous.
Ohhhh, so now having a different language and culture matters? Why is that? Why not force the two countries to give up their culture and just become one?

Zefah said:
There are plenty of parts of the US that have deeply ingrained Latin American culture. Whether you like it or not, those parts are American and help define what the country is.
The US was never Latin American.
 
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Max Legroom

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Americans encouraged relatively free and open immigration during the 18th and early 19th centuries, and rarely questioned that policy until the late 1800s. After certain states passed immigration laws following the Civil War, the Supreme Court in 1875 declared regulation of immigration a federal responsibility. Thus, as the number of immigrants rose in the 1880s and economic conditions in some areas worsened, Congress began to pass immigration legislation

https://www.uscis.gov/history-and-g...y-history/early-american-immigration-policies

Hmmm. Worsening econic conditions gave rise to federal immigration laws in 1875. Isn’t it telling how free immigration gave rise to this?

What? No, you have it backward. Worsening economic conditions caused the government to restrict immigration. Immigration didn't cause the depression of 1882-1885. Same as always, when the economy gets bad, the know-nothings get louder and more numerous.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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What? No, you have it backward. Worsening economic conditions caused the government to restrict immigration. Immigration didn't cause the depression of 1882-1885. Same as always, when the economy gets bad, the know-nothings get louder and more numerous.

We are still recovering from the worst economic depression in my lifetime. The country is still trillions in debt. We simply don’t have the resources to buy the world a coke.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
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America is nearly 250 years old. What happened in the past has no bearing on how a sovereign country defends itself..

This is so naive is its hilarious. Yes everyone lives in the here and now and nothing in the past has any bearing on current day affairs, let alone how a country defends itself.
 
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Max Legroom

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We are still recovering from the worst economic depression in my lifetime. The country is still trillions in debt. We simply don’t have the resources to buy the world a coke.

Ok? Is this supposed to have something to do with immigration?
 

JordanN

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This is so naive is its hilarious. Yes everyone lives in the here and now and nothing in the past has any bearing on current day affairs.
What is the point in bringing up dead people who have no influence on where America is today?
If America is guilty for partaking in conquest, then literally every other country that went to war in the past is too.
In which case, it's equal.
 
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Dev1lXYZ

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HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
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What is the point in bringing up dead people who have no influence on where America is today?
If America is guilty for partaking in conquest, then literally every other country that went to war in the past is too.
In which case, it's equal.

For someone who keeps going on about the laws, the US constitution and many other elements of this country based on the actions and thoughts of long dead people I find it a bit rich you keep riding this point. If your case was correct then the US wouldn't have been dealing with the fallout from how the Civil War and reconstruction were handled a hundred years later.