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Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
No, but the people who designed her have choice. Don't think anything isn't intentional in wholly-designed worlds.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Nobody questions the relationship between two straight characters being important to a story, even in a video game. Even simple relationships. When Peach gives Mario a peck on the cheek, people don't say "ugh, sexuality has no place in video games unless there's a Very Good Reason For It."
The moment representation for anyone who isn't straight is mentioned, we immediately see it questioned. If Peach gave another female character a peck on the check as an affectionate reward, past experience suggests people would asking why a character's sex life matters, games are for fun, it wasn't like this in my day.
No relationships, outside casual hook-ups, are just about sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is what leads to people having personal relationships. It should be assumed that a character's sexual orientation will of course be about more than just the bald fact that they're gay, straight, bi, etc. Even if the story is simple such as "Jack rescued his girlfriend Jill, and they went home." People can be expected to assume they're off to do all the stuff people do when they're in a relationship besides just standing around telling everyone "Hello, we're heterosexuals."
When the characters are heterosexual, this assumption is usually granted. We life in a heteronormative society, so people don't even think about it. They've been taught to proceed with such an assumption. It's normal.
chillybright
Banned
... What does super gay mean? Is that a new Super hero?
pinkurocket
Member
Gonna be interesting to see how they incorporate a potential 'lovestory' into this. Growing into an adult within such a post-apocalyptic world full of death and disease, makes me wonder if that's even possible. Surely there's a lot of lust, but for actual 'love' to blossom... If they nail the writing it could be extremely striking. The funny thing is that sexuality would probably be the last thing to worry about in a world like that.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The fact that we get such responses when it comes to just the idea of an LBGT protagonist is why we need more of them. Holy shit, so many heterosexual protagonists yet somehow having someone who's gay is "forcing it," or "it better be well written," or the most grating "I, a straight white male, don't see any issues with representation, as i'm constantly represented THUS there's no reason to even try to be better and represent other people."
KazenY2J
Member
QuantumBro
Banned
Does anyone actually like Nathan Drake though? He's basically white imperialism in human form.
Astral Dog
Member
But just...how much Gay are we talking about? Its Gay, or like Gay Gay?
Im perfectly ok with a little spice of Gay thrown in but im worried i wont relate to the main character and would need to play another game instead.
Im perfectly ok with a little spice of Gay thrown in but im worried i wont relate to the main character and would need to play another game instead.
Of course. He's awesome.
John Kowalski
Banned
Some folks itt are displaying a really worrying degree of indifference and disregard for the gay posters in this very thread. Before you guys write a post about how being gay or a woman doesn't matter, please consider that there are gay and women gaffers that will read your post and muster enough self dignity not to write posts completely dismissing their person.
Hari Seldon
Member
Lol Nathan Drake is an accidental imperialist. Never thought of it that way!
Nathan Drake was awesome in the first game, then it just went to shit.
Gay Cubed
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It could absolutely be argued that that's the main reason people like him so much, dude puts his friends and lover's life in danger, has a choice between two hot women, and never faces any consequences for his actions while killing a bunch of mercenaries with accents? Greatest guy ever.
You shouldn't be shocked at active disregard for marginalized groups... Look at the world we live in.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I don't think it's ND's style to have Ellie wearing a big ole rainbow pin on her shirt or making out with an NPC Fear Effect style - if anything, it'd probably be brought up during her and Joel's travels, depending on what happens in the interim 5 years between TLOU and TLOU:II. Possibly if whomever it was was killed in the attack, or survived for some melodrama (I see this being less likely.
But the level of 'Plz have it be subtle' hand-wringing is something else.
Yep, we've sure had a lot of gay and lesbian leads to 'normalize' things out in the video game sphere....
/s
You can say it shouldn't matter til the cows come home, but out of traditional LGBTQ characters in the AAA scene from the past gen til now, aside from Bioware blank slates (and technically Bethesda as well, I suppose), the only other 'playable' lesbian I can think of off-hand is Athena from Borderlands, and that's about as non-explicit as it gets, being voice-over only.
Representation is fucking important.
I don't think there's a big enough face palm picture for this.
But the level of 'Plz have it be subtle' hand-wringing is something else.
Yep, we've sure had a lot of gay and lesbian leads to 'normalize' things out in the video game sphere....
/s
You can say it shouldn't matter til the cows come home, but out of traditional LGBTQ characters in the AAA scene from the past gen til now, aside from Bioware blank slates (and technically Bethesda as well, I suppose), the only other 'playable' lesbian I can think of off-hand is Athena from Borderlands, and that's about as non-explicit as it gets, being voice-over only.
Representation is fucking important.
I don't think there's a big enough face palm picture for this.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Dunno if there's going to be room for much romance considering the theme of the game is hate.
Of course she's been confirmed gay. She's going to be the main character in a AAA game aimed at men.
If they want to give Ellie another love interest, fine, just have that character be strong willed or whatever and a character in their own right.
I don't need it to be the focus of the game however, someone's sexual identity should not define them, they are who they are just like everybody else.
Elie and Riley worked specifically because they were subtle and didn't need to have a parade around their preferences like typical flamboyantly gay offensive stereotypes in media to show how homosexual relationships were different from hetero ones.
I don't need it to be the focus of the game however, someone's sexual identity should not define them, they are who they are just like everybody else.
Elie and Riley worked specifically because they were subtle and didn't need to have a parade around their preferences like typical flamboyantly gay offensive stereotypes in media to show how homosexual relationships were different from hetero ones.
Indeed. Although there are a few bad examples of how to portray LGBT in media, namely if its so hamfisted it becomes stereotypical. Ever watch Game of Thrones? The character of Loras is just... honestly at a loss for words. Its worsened by the fact that he is actually a genuinely likable character in the books.
That's a GAF comment? :s
perhaps you can take solace in the realization that gender is made up and the concepts of hetero, homo, and bisexual are aging relics of the even more outmoded gender binary, and that all attraction is the same regardless of body features
or maybe you can just try to play a lesbian, it won't hurt you
malboroking
Banned
You have 20k posts and you don't known about avatar posting? Also, your sarcastic response isn't any better. The guy posted a low info post that he knew would be imflammatory and deserves ridicule. If you don't like TLOU's game play that's fine, but explain yourself or don't bother posting.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
His daughter was definitely not 8. She was closer Ellie's age.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I don't see it. The main point of the game will be on Joel and Ellie's relationship from what I've come across so far.
AlexFlame116
Member
This. I agree with this. Don't make it a character that can't do anything on their own. Also make sure that it is something that is a part of them but not in a stereotype way. You are who you are.
I hope that sounded right!
You can laugh at me later if I'm wrong, but I kinda doubt ND will push the "sexy lesbians to titillate straight men" angle in their generally serious and brutal post-apocalyptic world.
TLOU wiki says she was 12.
QuantumBro
Banned
By the fourth game, I don't think it can be called accidental. He goes around murdering thousands, destroying ancient civilizations, and keeping all the treasure for himself. I was sad that the game did not end with his death.
John Kowalski
Banned
I hope gaf can become the place where at least those thing don't happen in the obvious presence of those marginalized groups. Saying this stuff behind their back is one thing, saying it to their face?? That's twice as fucked, and no poster who displays such tactlessness should be given the benefit of the doubt.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
12 is closer to 14 than 8.
*edit Maybe you are just giving me the the exact number instead of disagreeing.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I love the idea; but I fear we'll see the same bullshit / homophobic reactions like back then after the Korrasami event.
Cool, thanks. So Joel was probably around 18 when she was born.
HellforLeather
Member
Being gay is pretty normalized; there is a ton of representation in the media these days in shows, movies, music, etc.
They've already established that Ellie is gay or bi in the previous games and she is the focus of the sequel (and arguably the focus of the original as well). So I dont understand the calls for representation that is already there.
Boiling the character down to one aspect is the opposite of creating a good character with depth and would short change the character they've already established.
Also the strange thing with this article is it seems to lean on the lazy stereotype of a lesbian with the denim shirt and guitar line....so being "super gay" would just be Ellie becoming a stereotypical lesbian?
randomlee26
Member
If anyone can write a nuanced, complex character in a video game, it's Neil Druckmann. And since he's clarified that he wrote Ellie as gay, then there isn't much of a question. I thought the way the
was really smart.
And as a gay guy I would like to say it's really cool to see people (no matter their sex or orientation) stepping up in this thread and not trying to devalue the queer experience.
characters' burgeoning sexuality was handled in Left Behind
And as a gay guy I would like to say it's really cool to see people (no matter their sex or orientation) stepping up in this thread and not trying to devalue the queer experience.
Sure, but you're not allowed to talk about your platform, your marketing materials are only allowed to be grey or khaki, and you're not allowed to hold press conferences or rallies.
I also hope that my earlier post didn't come off as unintentionally offensive and everybody got my point.
I don't know if Ellie is bi or a lesbian, and i don't much care. But i do hope that these characters get the story that they deserve to have without their relationships being used as something anything other than purely normal occurrences and not an 'event'
hans_castorp
Member
Representation matters and I hope ND goes full super-gay with Ellie, whatever that means.
But you're living in a bubble if you think hetero/homo/bi denominations are going anywhere anytime soon.
I definitely picked on the queer lady feel the author had felt as well; the clothes, the guitar, even the tattoo. I feel like Naughty Dog has the writing chops to do it well without venturing into the realm of relying on stereotypes but still being able to invoke details that can flesh out her characters sexuality. Really looking forward to see how this shapes up, if not for just being a great game but also because I don't think any major games have really spear headed these kind of topics before.
This is a legitimately great post.
Wow, that's uh, quite the headline.
Them what are you getting upset about? You literally just confirmed what my original post was. Are you sure you're not just overtly defending a critic you seem to favor for some reason? I am talking about her article is speculation. You seem upset because she is a queer film critic whose reviews you have liked, you listen to her podcasts, and have read her previous work etc. None of that negates what I said. She even questions her own premise with "I'm not the only who saw this right" etc. Geez.
per the Washington Post article quoting 2013 NHIS.. about 3.4% of the population identifies as not straight. Gallup has it at 3.8%. Even though LGBTQ are such a small percentage of the population, I think it is cool that a AAA potential GOTG incorporated it. If nothing else it is novel relative the majority of games and offers some fresh story arcs. Naughty Dog general does a good job on things and this should be no different.
There will be idiot brain washed "you're a white male!" SJWs who are like it is "courageous" and "brave" and "finally!, YASS!" and idiot hateful homophobes with their " not in muh game", "slurs I won't go into"... but really it is a change of pace and just is part of the character. no need to judge it positively or negatively. More interested in the Joel and Ellie interplay personally. It can be as gay or a straight as they want.
There will be idiot brain washed "you're a white male!" SJWs who are like it is "courageous" and "brave" and "finally!, YASS!" and idiot hateful homophobes with their " not in muh game", "slurs I won't go into"... but really it is a change of pace and just is part of the character. no need to judge it positively or negatively. More interested in the Joel and Ellie interplay personally. It can be as gay or a straight as they want.
Heh, I was being facetious. I'm not especially pressed about people using binary terms, though I definitely think society (US society, at least) is slowly moving towards a more complicated understanding of gender and queerness, and I think we'll all benefit from it.
edit : lol, of course my tangential reply would be at the top of the page