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[Terrell]

I don't understand. Either you believe that they were always going to give the money to charity and couldn't say it because of trying to skirt the associated costs (me), or you don't (others). If you don't, you think they're lying in today's statement. That isn't some opinion or something I can misconstrue, either you believe them or you don't.

No, I don't think they were lying, I think that:

a) It's impossible for me or anyone else to know what their intentions were, which is inherently part of the problem,
b) IF it were due to being unable to make a statement about what would occur with a purchase outside of the listed states and countries, it nonetheless created an ambiguity that didn't need to be there and
c) charity law shouldn't be something a consumer is expected to understand when making a purchase being advertised as charity and shouldn't need to consider the moral quandary of platform holders making money from their generous nature.

Ultimately, I think this was a very poorly thought out idea when there was at least one supremely easy alternative.

 

[Phamit]

The plan they had sounds insane.

Sell the dlc in 241 territories and hope no one questions it in 240 territories because they don't know the laws of all of the territories and to answer the Questions of people with concerns could break the law.

 

[OuterLimits]

I wonder how much they will get from a one time donation vs on going royalites?

We probably won't ever know for sure, but I'm guessing it will likely be less. Even when you exclude the 6 states they mentioned in the fine print, I imagine the DLC sales in the 44 states would have been fairly significant.(plus some of the states excluded are smaller population states)

 

[gogosox82]

This what they should've done in the first place.

 

[Ridley327]

The plan sounds insane.

Sell the dlc in 241 territories and hope no one questions it in 240 territories because they don't know the laws of all of the territories and to answer the Questions of people with concerns could break the law.

When it's put out like that, it really does highlight that they did set themselves up for criticism in the first place. It was undoubtedly made with good intentions, but if international charity laws are that restrictive about disclosure, then there was no way for them to win at this. I don't think they quite grasped the scope of what they were attempting here.

 

[Steroyd]

I'm guessing it was the same legal safety checks that got them into this situation in the first place with the fine print. Complicated international charity law and slow legal checks to make sure they aren't violating it.

Then why have the DLC sold internationally? If there was really that much red tape and they had to deal with charity laws why didn't they just sell it in the US only initially and they could've avoided everything, and if this was their intention to sell internationally the whole time why didn't they come out with this statement day one, and to put icing on the cake why the heck was this a pre-order back in August when the game itself isn't available until October, they had at least 3 months to get everything setup proper.

While I genuinely believe their heart was in the right place, the promotion and transparency of this was a major fuck up from head to toe, mis-timed right after the lootboxes debacle leaving a lot of people to fill in blanks.

 

[Plague Doctor]

The plan they had sounds insane.

Sell the dlc in 241 territories and hope no one questions it in 240 territories because they don't know the laws of all of the territories and to answer the Questions of people with concerns could break the law.

Yeah... so they were going to use duplicity to then in turn give all the money to the charity. That's.... that's not how you do charitable donations by owning up to quasi fraudulent marketing practices to skirt international laws. If we take this at face value as truth, I mean the intentions are good but... this is really not the way to do donations.

 

[Deeke[VRZ]]

I knew there was more to the story we didn't know. There always is. More transparency will ensure gamers don't rouse their Pitchfordforks every time Jim Sterling makes a new video.

Remember he doesn't have all the answers either (clearly).

 

[spineduke]

Its pretty obvious what WB had in mind to do with those international sales. Even their twitter marketing people thought it was freaking obvious!

 

[coughlanio]

I wonder what the family is going to do with their $8.

 

[le.phat]

Such a shame that this gesture got tainted by a poor attempt of manufactured goodwill. Now, the gesture feels like a response to save face. This whole situation is a striking example of how corporate greed and dissonance between the provider and the consumer are really crippling this industry

 

[KORNdoggy]

this game can't seem to catch a break lol

controversy surrounding a sexy spider, controversy surrounding utterly pointless micro-transactions in a SP game...and now screwing this up.

i feel like all i've read surrounding this title is apologies and crappy justification for crappy ideas. and then on top of that, it's out soon and there is absolutely no buzz surrounding the game at all.

Its pretty obvious what WB had in mind to do with those international sales. Even their twitter marketing people thought it was freaking obvious!

doesn't that show the complete opposite. is seem their "twitter marketing people" assumed non of the money earned from non US DLC purchases would go to the family either.

 

[AusRoachman]

Looks like preorders aren’t looking too hot .

 

[watdaeff4]

Not to get all-conspiracy theorist or anti-corporation but I wonder if this change was due to the consumer backlash or because of the consumer backlash they were worried of a potential legal action if they pushed forward?


I mean......it is WB and they haven't been the most consumer-friendly corporation lately

If every YouTuber and forum poster who got outraged about this donated to the family that would be rad.

Fair point.

 

[hamchan]

If every YouTuber and forum poster who got outraged about this donated to the family that would be rad.

 

[m_dorian]

If every YouTuber and forum poster who got outraged about this donated to the family that would be rad.

Some did.

https://www.youcaring.com/michael-forgey-479259

And still can.

And that is one more good thing that came out from this outrage.

If only the people defending WB did their part too... (see it works both ways).

 

[Yui's Empire]

The end of a saga. I was baffled by the outrage their original intent raised, I understand why it was criticized but regardless it would have made tons of money for the family, and that's the only thing that mattered in the end. I hope that like this they'll still be able to raise similar amounts of money, but I fear that most of the damage has been done already. But that's how the Internet goes, you just have to hope you're not the target of the outrage of the day.

 

[spineduke]

doesn't that show the complete opposite. is seem their "twitter marketing people" assumed non of the money earned from non US DLC purchases would go to the family either.

Thats what I meant - I was referring to the people throwing out how "obvious" it was that WB was going to donate all the proceeds when the fineprint in their marketing, and the messages sent by their PR people indicated the complete contrary.

 

[Lucifon]

Or make the dlc free, then via there website set up a "if you'd like to donate the suggested vaue is $5" with 100% of proceeds being donated. Heck some people might be willing to donate more then however much they wanted to sell this dlc for and make more money off it.

Great idea!

 

[Alienfan]

Internet outrage strikes again, family will receive less money, but hey, we get free DLC. Hopefully the donation WB make is half as good as the donations that the DLC would have brought in

 

[m_dorian]

Internet outrage strikes again, family will receive less money, but hey, we get free DLC. Hopefully the donation WB make is half as good as the donations that the DLC would have brought in

How do you know that family will receive less money?
Have you got any proof of this?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Meh, that's what I expected.

 

[Nev]

I mean that's cool and all, but of all the shitty DLC practices of WB this was the least worthy of outrage imo.

I wish these people complained about the 5€ DLC characters of Netherrealm games or pre-order Darkseid because there's 0% going to charity with these scams.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

how could a small indie like WB afford to donate money to the family now?

 

[BrassDragon]

You know what, in the spirit of positivity I'm going to assume good faith. Forget all the controversy around Shadow of War, this particular move seems like a genuine miscalculation on the part of WB not some crazy greedy scheme.

There are human beings making these decisions and walking this with a public statement and the logistics of refunding is not an easy thing to do. I also appreciate the apology to the family, which seems right.

When all is said and done, actual in-game content with unique art and an impact on the player experience seems like a wonderful memorial for a developer.

RIP Michael Forgey.

 

[Joeku]

I mean that's cool and all, but of all the shitty DLC practices of WB this was the least worthy of outrage imo.

I wish these people complained about the 5€ DLC characters of Netherrealm games or pre-order Darkseid because there's 0% going to charity with these scams.

I too wish people complained about less-publicized DLC practices that were not as heavily advertized "for charity (but questionable based on the fine print)" DLC announcements for the sequel to one of the entire company's best selling games ever.

If only it were so obvious to everyone but us -- what would have been!

(For real, though, there has been a massive marketing push behind SoW and this was a weirdly fucked up part of it. It's unavoidable that this would catch noise.)

 

[Gunblade47]

Good.

The sketch and "internet outrage" around this whole thing was their own fault for not being clear on this.

Spoiler

This whole "we were gonna donate it anyway you guys should've just kept hush" sounds revisionist to me personally.
But good on them for doing the right thing

 

[Joeku]

Internet outrage strikes again, family will receive less money, but hey, we get free DLC. Hopefully the donation WB make is half as good as the donations that the DLC would have brought in

If only nobody questioned anything that WB said about this particular DLC ever despite the fucked-up way they rolled it out and just bought it blindly, it would all be OK, because we can of course assume the best of intentions for WB as a publisher, and they certainly couldn't have planned this donation campaign any better than they did (despite everything they've done as a publisher over the last several years). No, it's the outrage culture's fault.

Spoiler

Despite what we all want for the family of the deceased, in WB's case, that sure as shit isn't self-evident in the way they presented it. And it has fuck all to do with getting whatever DLC was presented for free. Their trailers and PR fucked this up. That's all.

Edit: That said, yeah, chances are the donations to the family is going to be less than it would have been if the family had received regular royalties. If only WB hadn't fucked up the method of advertising and delivering royalties to the family and trying to skirt the rules of hundreds of territories while not at all saying they were skirting the rules of hundreds of territories. If only they could be cool about it and give them the prospective amount based on new release sales.

If only.

 

[duckroll]

This is an optics problem. Regardless of whether WB was lying or just trapped in some stupid web of legal speak, the problem should never have happened to begin with.

There are two very clear problems here:
a) trying to mix paid microtransactions with a charity drive
b) the lack of transparency behind a charity product

These are things that land you in hot water in terms of PR very quickly because when people start asking questions, the answers might be uncomfortable. It is irrelevant whether the core intentions are good or malicious, there are strict laws regarding charity for a reason - because people care a lot more when they think they are getting ripped off based on sympathy and good will, than when they are getting ripped off because they have poor money management skills.

If I buy a character DLC because I feel I must have that character and then I feel ripped off after that, I blame myself because I made a bad purchase and no one tricked me into it. If I buy a character DLC because I want to donate to a charitable cause, and I feel ripped off after that because how the money was handled is unclear, that could represent a criminal act in many countries.

Charity is no joke. If WB says that their original plan was to donate anyway, but could not say so because of legalese regarding how charity funds are regulated in various countries, that means there is already a clear lack of transparency in how they approached this exercise. Transparency is paramount in charity when it comes to finances.

So yeah, it's good people made a huge fuss and they backed down on this, because asking for money from people for a good cause isn't so simple as just wanting to do it. People were right to throw up red flags, and this is how regulation works. Even if it inconveniences people wanting to do the right thing, everyone is equally inconvenienced so everyone can show they are accountable for how the money flows. We should not be having it any other way.

 

[Yui's Empire]

I too wish people complained about less-publicized DLC practices that were not as heavily advertized "for charity (but questionable based on the fine print)" DLC announcements for the sequel to one of the entire company's best selling games ever.

If only it were so obvious to everyone but us -- what would have been!

(For real, though, there has been a massive marketing push behind SoW and this was a weirdly fucked up part of it. It's unavoidable that this would catch noise.)

They should have handled it better, but much of the blame falls on YouTubers craving for attention who were desparate to find another reason to pile on this game after the sexy spider and loot boxes. We had people wishing them to lose their jobs or worse over a charity thing that was made to help a dead colleague's family, and yet it got down to "omg WB is the worst they should go out of business boycott this game fuck all this".

YouTube was a mistake.

 

[Skade]

They should have handled it better, but much of the blame falls on YouTubers craving for attention who were desparate to find another reason to pile on this game after the sexy spider and loot boxes. We had people wishing them to lose their jobs or worse over a charity thing that was made to help a dead colleague's family, and yet it got down to "omg WB is the worst they should go out of business boycott this game fuck all this".

YouTube was a mistake.

I'm fairly sure the uproar started before TB or Jim said anything. They most probably "escalated" it but that's it.

So... Well... People don't need youtubers to get riled up against something (anything) theses days.

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

Charitable scumbags. This will learn em

 

[Polioliolio]

Thank god for Jim Sterling, my sons.

If every YouTuber and forum poster who got outraged about this donated to the family that would be rad.

Jim will do it.

 

[Yui's Empire]

Jim will do it.

After making an outraged video that discouraged thousands from buying that DLC. A lot of them will not see this update.

 

[atr0cious]

After making an outraged video that discouraged thousands from buying that DLC. A lot of them will not see this update.

Lol people really trying to go to bat for a shady corporation.

 

[Yui's Empire]

Lol people really trying to go to bat for a shady corporation.

Please read my posts before making assumptions, thanks. I am not defending WB, I opened my earlier post with the fact they should done it better. But the whole YouTube outrage was absolutely out of place.

 

[Diprosalic]

We did it Reddit!

 

[atr0cious]

Please read my posts before making assumptions, thanks. I am not defending WB, I opened my earlier post with the fact they should done it better. But the whole YouTube outrage was absolutely out of place.

No, it wasn't, as signaled by the existence of this thread and the results. They outright admitted only money in the Us was going to the family while they would nebulously profit on the rest. Saying it was obvious they were going to be truly benevolent is delusional when we have a thread a month about their shitty practices, especially with the cool loot boxes in shadow of war.

 

[Yui's Empire]

No, it wasn't, as signaled by the existence of this thread and the results. They outright admitted only money on the is was going to the family while they would nebulously profit on the rest. Saying it was obvious they were going to be truly benevolent is delusional when we have a thread a month about their shitty practices, especially with the cool loot boxes in shadow of war.

This is the thing, loot boxes in single player is one thing, a charity mess-up is another. Let's not put the two together because there's nothing in common between them. Posts like these prove that people frequently do this, which was probably one of the main reasons the rage was so massive. Were this done by a more liked company like Nintendo the outrage would have been far less, but it was the hottest trend to shit on WB for this game so it came out perfectly. They messed up, but the tones I've seen regarding it were insane.

 

[eizarus]

Shout out to the internet who, instead of using some basic common sense, got angry about literally giving to charity.

Why is it always the Juniors?

 

[atr0cious]

This is the thing, loot boxes in single player is one thing, a charity mess-up is another. Let's not put the two together because there's nothing in common between them. Posts like these prove that people frequently do this, which was probably one of the main reasons the rage was so massive. Were this done by a more liked company like Nintendo the outrage would have been far less, but it was the hottest trend to shit on WB for this game so it came out perfectly. They messed up, but the tones I've seen regarding it were insane.

So you bring in Nintendo to prove you are delusional? Nintendo gets shit on for getting the same ports the other systems get, but sure, they'd get a pass for openly admitting they would be profiting off a dead man. Just like they told everyone about the flog file on the switch right?

An aggressive money hungry corporation was openly being shady about charity and you're more upset people caught on to it. Just think about that when you say you're not apologizing for corporations.

 

[spineduke]

This is the thing, loot boxes in single player is one thing, a charity mess-up is another. Let's not put the two together because there's nothing in common between them. Posts like these prove that people frequently do this, which was probably one of the main reasons the rage was so massive. Were this done by a more liked company like Nintendo the outrage would have been far less, but it was the hottest trend to shit on WB for this game so it came out perfectly. They messed up, but the tones I've seen regarding it were insane.

This would work in a complete vacuum, but this is Warner Bros we're talking about. The scrutiny and caution is well justified. They are prone to scummy practices and taking that into context is very much a valid line of thinking. The sad reality is that it is not out of the realm of possibility that they pocket some of the DLC cash in what might appear as a technical oversight or mishap at best. I say it genuinely, based on their past. This is the only way to get companies as big as WB to react, you have to threaten their bottom line or nothing.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

One on hand we got a better solution. On the other hand shit tier behavior of some people has been validated. So its kind of a wash.

 

[Yui's Empire]

So you bring in Nintendo to prove you are delusional? Nintendo gets shit on for getting the same ports the other systems get, but sure, they'd get a pass for openly admitting they would be profiting off a dead man. Just like they told everyone about the flog file on the switch right?

An aggressive money hungry corporation was openly being shady about charity and you're more upset people caught on to it. Just think about that when you say you're not apologizing for corporations.

You intentionally skipped the 90% of my post to jump on the Nintendo comparison, dodging the whole point I made up until that point. Loot box outrage is one thing, the charity fuck up is unrelated to that. Is it really so hard to grasp this? People were calling this charity move the most disgusting thing in videogame history and openly hoping the game would flop, likely causing massive layoffs. I mean, for fuck's sake, that was too damn much. This is not corporate defense, this is the reality. I criticize corporations when I feel like they deserve it, and I OPENED WITH THAT. The fact this whole shit was taken to underline how shitty company this is like "see? this is the same company that does loot boxes" was idiotic. Did they deserve to be scrutinized? Yes. Were the billion fake outrage YouTubers destroying the devs for this when most of them lacked the facts (the first video literally didn't know about Steam's 30% cut for example) necessary? No.

 

[funkystudent]

WB PR really must such when they whiff something such a slam dunk as donating money to cancer / family of cancer victim.


This controversy was 100% on them. There was a obvious omission of where money outside the US would go. People rightfully questioned it


Their heart was in the right place. It sucks some suit writing the press release had to fuck it up

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

The best thing they could have done as an answer to this mess

 

[atr0cious]

You intentionally skipped the 90% of my post to jump on the Nintendo comparison, dodging the whole point I made up until that point. Loot box outrage is one thing, the charity fuck up is unrelated to that. Is it really so hard to grasp this? People were calling this charity move the most disgusting thing in videogame history and openly hoping the game would flop, likely causing massive layoffs. I mean, for fuck's sake, that was too damn much. This is not corporate defense, this is the reality. I criticize corporations when I feel like they deserve it, and I OPENED WITH THAT. The fact this whole shit was taken to underline how shitty company this is like "see? this is the same company that does loot boxes" was idiotic. Did they deserve to be scrutinized? Yes. Were the billion fake outrage YouTubers destroying the devs for this when most of them lacked the facts (the first video literally didn't know about Steam's 30% cut for example) necessary? No.

You keep forgetting that this doesn't happen in a vacuum. People were responding to a company continuing to do shitty things, and now seemingly profiting off a dead former employee. The outrage should've renewed your faith in humanity after many of the same YouTubers were shrugging off white supremacy. And the devs got paid already, so don't worry about them.

"90%" of your post is about wb just trying to make money, but you're not a corporate apologist, ok.

 

[Yui's Empire]

You keep forgetting that this doesn't happen in a vacuum. People were responding to a company continuing to do shitty things, and now seemingly profiting off a dead former employee. The outrage should've renewed your faith in humanity after many of the same YouTubers were shrugging off white supremacy. And the devs got paid already, so don't worry about them.

Well at least I'll agree on the fact that the outrage served for some YouTuber not to be spewing nazi shit for a change. And it did WB do the right thing after all, so it was useful I suppose. We'll agree to disagree on the tones.

 

[atr0cious]

Well at least I'll agree on the fact that the outrage served for some YouTuber not to be spewing nazi shit for a change. And it did WB do the right thing after all, so it was useful I suppose. We'll agree to disagree on the tones.

You really think this would've happened, this course correction, if the outrage wasn't vitriolic? They made an ad to promote this, which means spending money on materials, but you think this was always going to be the plan, despite WBs own words?

 

[Falchion]

I feel like that's a much better approach.