Why would they send out PPC devkits for x86 hardware? That makes no sense.antonz said:Its entirely possible for a 360 like Processor being used in devkits right now. Trinity wont be hitting the market until like First half 2012.
Why would they send out PPC devkits for x86 hardware? That makes no sense.antonz said:Its entirely possible for a 360 like Processor being used in devkits right now. Trinity wont be hitting the market until like First half 2012.
nintendo ninja said:hay guys i would like a pm too
I was more referring to a Tri Core etc then a specific model of chip. I really don't put much stock in the French discussion right now because outside of the controller stuff everything else is admittedly speculation.Yoshiya said:Why would you send out PPC devkits for x86 hardware? That makes no sense.
antonz said:I was more referring to a Tri Core etc then a specific model of chip. I really don't put much stock in the French discussion right now because outside of the controller stuff everything else is admittedly speculation.
EatChildren said:I thought they said that while they were speculating on the GPU and RAM, they were adamant that the CPU was a PowerPC?
TruePrime makes another good point; Trinity wont launch until next year, which would put the Wii 2 as housing absolutely cutting edge technology.
It just seems a bit too far fetched. This, to me, all screams "expensive cutting edge technology", and I really cannot see Nintendo doing that.
EatChildren said:I thought they said that while they were speculating on the GPU and RAM, they were adamant that the CPU was a PowerPC?
TruePrime makes another good point; Trinity wont launch until next year, which would put the Wii 2 as housing absolutely cutting edge technology.
It just seems a bit too far fetched. This, to me, all screams "expensive cutting edge technology", and I really cannot see Nintendo doing that.
Trinity is going to be part of AMD's budget/mainstream CPU line though. It's basically 1 or 2 Bulldozer modules and a mid-tier graphics core. It'll be cheap as fuck.EatChildren said:I thought they said that while they were speculating on the GPU and RAM, they were adamant that the CPU was a PowerPC?
TruePrime makes another good point; Trinity wont launch until next year, which would put the Wii 2 as housing absolutely cutting edge technology.
It just seems a bit too far fetched. This, to me, all screams "expensive cutting edge technology", and I really cannot see Nintendo doing that.
I'm sure they can scale the number of cores and SP up or down depending on what Nintendo want.Mr. Pointy said:Trinity is going to be part of AMD's budget/mainstream CPU line though. It's basically 1 or 2 Bulldozer modules and a mid-tier graphics core. It'll be cheap as fuck.
Mr_Brit said:Trinity is far from cutting edge, the Bulldozer cores its using are coming out around June this year so by Early 2012 will have been out for 6+months. Just because its scheduled for 2012 doesn't mean its cutting edge
Yeah right now AMD is reporting Trinity will be a 2-4 Core Chip+GPU. The GPU reports conflict people have said it will be 5000 series but Wikipedia reports it will be a midrange 6000 series.Mr_Brit said:I'm sure they can scale the number of cores and SP up or down depending on what Nintendo want.
ZiggyRoXx said:But your forgetting Nintendo's business plan.....dress up mature (cheap) tech in a shiny new case with some gimmicky USP and sell with huge profit margin.
The 3DS is the latest example of it....
It's dull, boring and conservative, but that's Nintendo for you, the days of looking to Nintendo to push forward console tech are long gone.
antonz said:Summary:
AMD is working on a CPU that will be used for a Console launching late 2012.
Likely candidate is the AMD Chip Codenamed Trinity.
Trinity is a 2-4 Core Chip based on the new Bulldozer Core technology that also has a GPU which is most likely around the 5770 in performance built in.
As of right now only 1 Game console is scheduled for a reported Fall 2012 Launch so unless something drastic changes the information would seemingly lead to the fact it has to be the Wii 2
Link? I refuse to believe this is going to be a huge leap in power over the PS3/360 beiing that IGN are the ones who said that and they've been all over the place with rumors. The French site that leaked the NGP specs are the ones saying it's a 3 core PPC cpu.antonz said:I was more referring to a Tri Core etc then a specific model of chip. I really don't put much stock in the French discussion right now because outside of the controller stuff everything else is admittedly speculation.
As far back as 2009 actually it was reported Nintendo was talking with AMD about using their Fusion APU technology for 2011/2012
I agree with you that it hasn't been Nintendo's style to go cutting edge for awhile, but they have in the past and they were the first on the market with the glasses-less screen for 3DS. It isn't out of the realm of possibility, but I think it's unlikely.EatChildren said:I thought they said that while they were speculating on the GPU and RAM, they were adamant that the CPU was a PowerPC?
TruePrime makes another good point; Trinity wont launch until next year, which would put the Wii 2 as housing absolutely cutting edge technology.
It just seems a bit too far fetched. This, to me, all screams "expensive cutting edge technology", and I really cannot see Nintendo doing that.
Games shouldn't cost any more than they do now, base assets are created at much higher quality than you get in game so devs can easily scale their assets up or down depending on platform. Combine that with the fact that Nintendo will probably make 1080p 'mandatory'(in the sense that 720p is the defacto resolution for the 360/PS3) which means that devs don't need to work as hard on graphics as such a high resolution will limit what they can do compared to working at 720p so you shouldn't see any production cost increases.Eteric Rice said:And what kind of technology would we be talking, here? How much of a performance boost from what we have now?
I'm concerned about dev costs. For me, graphics have reached a point where it's kind of hard to make a shitty looking game. Will this raise costs much?
MadOdorMachine said:Link? I refuse to believe this is going to be a huge leap in power over the PS3/360 beiing that IGN are the ones who said that and they've been all over the place with rumors. The French site that leaked the NGP specs are the ones saying it's a 3 core PPC cpu.
I agree with you that it hasn't been Nintendo's style to go cutting edge for awhile, but they have in the past and they were the first on the market with the glasses-less screen for 3DS. It isn't out of the realm of possibility, but I think it's unlikely.
antonz said:The 3DS is about the most powerful hardware you could fit possible in the form factor they are using and still have more than 5 minutes of battery life. Hell the NGP fairs just as bad having only identical battery life to the 3DS yet the battery in the NGP is probably the size of the 3DS as a whole.
Handheld technology will always be hampered by the power source technology. Nintendo could have obviously made a NGP size device and upped the specs but thats not the design decisions Nintendo set out on. The NGP will require man purses to be carried around practically.
Reminds me of people saying the NVidia Tegra would power the 3DS. Either way, just don't see Nintendo going this bleeding edge. I would love for them to, but it's a little hard to swallow.antonz said:The French site that leaked the NGP specs didn't dick around and guess on parts for the NGP. They bullet pointed every single feature and spec including model numbers of parts etc.
Thats the problem now because they got access to the devkits of the NGP anything they say is accepted as truth. Hell they say we have no clue what ram the Wii 2 has. Suddenly half the internet is reporting French site says X is confirmed.
At this point the French sites speculation doesn't even add up to their speculated power. The R700 line shits all over the 360/PS3.
meh, if they use 32nm like I think they will then they won't have any supply problems as by late 2012, 32nm will be widely available and have massive supply capability.[Nintex] said:I don't think Nintendo will go with Trinity or Bulldozer. Not because of that it's cutting edge but because I doubt that they'll bet their entire console launch on the availability of a single part. The GameCube hardware was finished in 2000 or so and they changed some clockspeeds etc. up untill the 2001 launch but the overall chip design was finished a year earlier. If AMD runs into production problems with the Trinity/Bulldozer(low yields for example) and that is very likely to happen with those new chips than Nintendo can't launch their console. If they want to ship enough units for a holiday 2012 launch production would have to be well underway during the summer or perhaps even spring. So to me it seems impossible that Nintendo will pick a chip design that isn't ready for use untill the end of 2012 given AMD's history with delays. it already takes months to move from a finished AMD/Nvidia GPU to the first shipment of a graphics card which are often called 'paper launches' for a reason.
I go with whatever source makes Nintendo look the best. That's my rule.Eteric Rice said:Why are we listening to IGN anyway? Didn't they totally fudge the 3DS specs?
I doubt they'd go for either the Trinity or the Bulldozer. If I look at AMD's Fusion line-up I'd say a modified LIano is a much more likely candidate. 32nm too and they just shipped the laptop line the desktop versions will arrive in July.Mr_Brit said:meh, if they use 32nm like I think they will then they won't have any supply problems as by late 2012, 32nm will be widely available and have massive supply capability.
the gamecube standard should be how computer processing power is measured from now on.Pie Lord said:So in other words... four Gamecubes?
Isn't the Fusion tech suited for desktop browsing instead of gaming?[Nintex] said:I doubt they'd go for either the Trinity or the Bulldozer. If I look at AMD's Fusion line-up I'd say a modified LIano is a much more likely candidate. 32nm too and they just shipped the laptop line the desktop versions will arrive in July.
Llano yields by 2012 should be nearly 100% it would be a mistake to shut a core off.Mr. Pointy said:Llano (AMD K10.5 cores) would still shit on the current in-order PPC chips the 360/PS3, CELL is a bit different of course. It would also be easier to manufacture as well; say it's a 3-core CPU as an example, they could essentially manufacture them all as 4-cores and shut one down to increase yields. A Trinity APU would require 2 working Bulldozer modules out of the box.
It would need a boost in the GPU department though.
Fusion is best suited for laptops(Llano) and netbooks(Bobcat).Wazzim said:Isn't the Fusion tech suited for desktop browsing instead of gaming?
StuBurns said:If Nintendo are pricing themselves into the PS480 bracket, and launch a year early, their tech will be weaker sooner right?
Gahiggidy said:I'm betting that the cost of the cpu/gpu combo costs no more than $150. Probably closer to $100. What kind of performance can you get from that range by 2012? My reasoning is that I bet Nintendo is aiming for $299 launch price. They've never sold anything, that I know of, over $300 bucks.
For comparison, iSuppli did a detailed cost breakdown on the Xbox 360 when it launched and found the cpu/gpu combo to cost Microsoft $247:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20051123214405.html
Something like trinity won't cost more than $100 by late 2012. In fact, all of the rumoured hardware wouldn't cost more than $150 by 2012 so no matter what Nintendo go for, they'll be profitable from launch.EatChildren said:Yeah, people do need to factor in that whatever hardware Nintendo will go for, they will want to sell at a profit straight out of the gate, unlike Microsoft and Sony who were quite happy to sell at a loss in favour of beefier hardware.
Stephen Colbert said:The only info in the PM is the original source. The actual relevent information, that the Wii 2 is likely using AMD's Fusion APU is in the OP and is what should be discussed.
The speculated GPU in the op is a single integrated CPU/GPU chip (or APU), its built from the ground up to maximise efficiencey.toasty_T said:I find it odd that the speculated GPU is a dual powered energy hog. If anything wouldn't devs be using the 6 series AMD cards since they provide great/er performance with the a smaller energy usage profile?
brain_stew said:The speculated GPU in the op is a single integrated CPU/GPU chip (or APU), its built from the ground up to maximise efficiencey.
As for how this matches up with the French rumour of PowerPC cores, well it could be the same same design from the internal GPU to cache structures, to memory controllers yet simply integrate PowerPC cores instead of x86 cores. Choosing which off the shelf CPU core to use in a design like this isn't the hard part, all the fine grained integration and on-chip communication is. AMD and IBM have already collaborated on a project just like this with the latest iteration of the Xbox 360's silicon, which has an AMD GPU and PowerPc cores integrated on the same die.
If its derived from Trinity then its either a 640sp or 800sp GPU which will absolutely decimate the 360 in graphics assuming its supplied with enough memory bandwidth.
Log4Girlz said:How many did the 360 have, 48 right?
The bottom line is pure processing power - Xenos has 240GFLOPs, Radeon 5770 has 1360GFLOPs. 6 times as powerful and it's a cheap old GPU by now. Hardware manufacturers have no excuse not to beef up hardware significantly above 360/PS3 levels.brain_stew said:Its 192 by AMD's current naming scheme but those are first generation unified shaders, they're not directly comparable (read: much worse) to AMD's 4th/5th generation unified shader tech.
I really can't see Nintendo using something like a 4870/5770, although relative to other GPUs it's low power/heat, Nintendo will want something much cheaper/lower power/cooler so I think they'll use a 56XX instead of 57XX+ part which will be able to run better than 360 titles at 1080p.szaromir said:The bottom line is pure processing power - Xenos has 240GFLOPs, Radeon 5770 has 1360GFLOPs. 6 times as powerful and it's a cheap old GPU by now. Hardware manufacturers have no excuse not to beef up hardware significantly above 360/PS3 levels.
Its Nintendoszaromir said:The bottom line is pure processing power - Xenos has 240GFLOPs, Radeon 5770 has 1360GFLOPs. 6 times as powerful and it's a cheap old GPU by now. Hardware manufacturers have no excuse not to beef up hardware significantly above 360/PS3 levels.
I don't think they'll use 2009 processors at all. I'm just saying about the orders of magnitude, what's currently possible (and expected to scale even further in future).Mr_Brit said:I really can't see Nintendo using something like a 4870/5770, although relative to other GPUs it's low power/heat, Nintendo will want something much cheaper/lower power/cooler so I think they'll use a 56XX instead of 57XX+ part which will be able to run better than 360 titles at 1080p.
Whatever series of GPU(5000/6000/maybe even 7000) Nintendo will probably go for something that has equal power draw/heat to the 56XX line of GPUs.szaromir said:I don't think they'll use 2009 processors at all. I'm just saying about the orders of magnitude, what's currently possible (and expected to scale even further in future).
Yeah, but even 56xx is at 40nm(?), I think 28nm will be common manufacturing process in late 2012. IMO going below 1TFLOPs GPU would be laughing the customer in the faceMr_Brit said:Whatever series of GPU(5000/6000/maybe even 7000) Nintendo will probably go for something that has equal power draw/heat to the 56XX line of GPUs.
I don't think you've met Nintendo have you?szaromir said:Yeah, but even 56xx is at 40nm(?), I think 28nm will be common manufacturing process in late 2012. IMO going below 1TFLOPs GPU would be laughing the customer in the face
I have. I just don't think they won't to repeat the situation where all the blockbusters are either completely missing from their platform (Assassin's Creed etc) or can't be played properly (COD, FIFA etc.), they have to make sure their hardware scales well with competition, even if there won't be parity at all.Mr_Brit said:I don't think you've met Nintendo have you?
There's really nothing in the PM that says anything we don't know. It's just a bit more detailed.freddy said:So if I was a rep from AMD and wanted to know who the source was all I'd have to do was ask on here for a pm and the guy would be fired anyway?
Fafalada said:When sticking whatever speculated-hw inside a box, what do people actually expect in terms of form-factor/heat/noise from a Wii sucessor?
Something big-ass as 360 or PS3 or 2xDVD size box with little or no active cooling?