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[A Link to the Past]

Either you missed sarcasm, which isn't amusing, or you're forgetting that plenty of ignorant people, the kind getting mad at this kid, were and are mad that Eminem is white.

I'm well aware of your sarcasm. I was pointing out that it was stupid sarcasm. And did you verify that the people mad at this kid were mad about Eminem? Or did you just decide that all black people upset about appropriation can be painted with these broad strokes?

I'll ask a very simple question. How can a desegregated society exist if cultures cannot merge? By your logic black women who straighten their hair should be looked down upon. Black men who wear jeans should be looked down upon. Anyone who does anything that was created and made popular by another culture should be looked down upon. So call me ignorant, but how can desegregation actually happen when people carry this attitude toward culture?

So what you're saying is that if black people allow their culture to be appropriated and not have anything left that is theirs in a society that hates them, it will make them loved? No, it will just make them a people hated by millions who have even less than they once did.

Also, consider that your comparison is suggesting an equivalence between "an oppressed minority having its culture homogenized" to "a powerful majority having its culture adopted by other cultures." If you need to be told why the first is worse than the second, I legitimately pity you.

 

[speculawyer]

I wonder if the internet has create a new outrage culture.

You used to have to work to express outrage . . . you had to write to the editor, start a newsletter, create a petition, organize a protest, attend a protest, etc.

Now all you have to do is rant on twitter, create a thread, post an image macro on your facebook, etc.

People bitch about so many non issues these days. Like a fucking hair style. FFS.

 

[And_Gignac]

Okay, whatever, it's black people's fault. I'm done with this topic because we'll go in circles and I'm not going to debate this topic with someone unwilling to understand.

I am not saying that, I said it was racists fault, who do not appreciate black culture until it gets white washed for their consumption. I am just trying to argue in favor of what I think is the very nature of culture: mixing and reinvention.

 

[Rembrandt]

I'll ask a very simple question. How can a desegregated society exist if cultures cannot merge? By your logic black women who straighten their hair should be looked down upon. Black men who wear jeans should be looked down upon. Anyone who does anything that was created and made popular by another culture should be looked down upon. So call me ignorant, but how can desegregation actually happen when people carry this attitude toward culture?

Black women straighten their hair because their natural hair is looked down upon. It's not a matter of homogenized culture, it's a matter of shaming those that look different until they conform to what the other side see as pretty/natural. Yes, you're being ignorant because this has been explained on this page and prior ones.

I am not saying that, I said it was racists fault, who do not appreciate black culture until it gets white washed for their consumption. I am just trying to argue in favor of what I think is the very nature of culture: mixing and reinvention.

My bad, I assumed you were placing blame on the wrong people. But yeah, that's the main issue. People appreciate black culture without appreciating black people.

 

[Trey]

Thanks, I did read your previous comments and hoped for more clarification.

I can understand being defensive because there is a history taking from black culture while actively hiding and/or dismissing its roots. Do you think that this sort of conscious, racist appropriation is as prevalent today? For example, the twerking thing. Do you think people consciously thought that this would be the next big thing for white people and wanted to hide the fact that black people have been doing it for years? Or do you think that ignorance and carelessness is to blame?

Is people liking Macklemore or Iggy Azalea because they're white, despite them putting out the same type of music that blacks have, a conscious effort to keep black culture hidden (honestly don't know because I don't really know who those two are). It seems to me that it's more a subconscious desire to embrace ideas that come from non-threatening/ideal/representative figures AKA white people. That in itself is also a battle to be fought, but I think it's hard to get angry at individuals for this.

No, black folks want credit for things that organically rise from their culture. As would any one or any community. When it's taken and misrepresented is when people get touchy.

The black community by and large has no interest in being hidden.

Thanks for the non retaliatory response. Creating imaginary lines that cannot be crossed by people of another race is a form of segregation.

They're not imaginary, and any lines being created are curated by those in power.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I am not saying that, I said it was racists fault, who do not appreciate black culture until it gets white washed for their consumption. I am just trying to argue in favor of what I think is the very nature of culture: mixing and reinvention.

And that can only happen in a theoretical society, so really, we can only discuss it on a theoretical level. Until then, black people should be able to have rein over the cultures and ideas. Getting upset and outraged is one of the only things they can do to fight erasure.

 

[CapNBritain]

No, black folks want credit for things that organically rise from their culture. As would any one or any community. When it's taken and misrepresented is when people get touchy.

The black community by and large has no interest in being hidden.



They're not imaginary, and any lines being created are curated by those in power.

I get that it would be nice for black people to get recognition. But do people literally want Macklemore to being every performance with "thank you [creators of rap, whose names I don't know]" or something similar? Or is it more about people in general being more informed about history and cultural roots? I mean, it'd be great for people (including myself) to be more educated and ware of history, but don't think it's a realistic thing to ask.

 

[Nostremitus]

So what you're saying is that if black people allow their culture to be appropriated and not have anything left that is theirs in a society that hates them, it will make them loved? No, it will just make them a people hated by millions who have even less than they once did.

Also, consider that your comparison is suggesting an equivalence between "an oppressed minority having its culture homogenized" to "a powerful majority having its culture adopted by other cultures." If you need to be told why the first is worse than the second, I legitimately pity you.

Do you honestly believe an imaginary "white culture" exists? Do you think there is a culture that all white people belong to regardless of where they were born, how they were raised, or what language they speak?

I'm American and was raised in American culture. I'm mixed race. I've never seen this fabled white culture. It's called American culture and the greatest thing about it is the attempt at breaking down cultural walls and fear of diversity.

If you are so blinded to this that you choose to hold on to this "us vs them" mentality over a hairstyle, save your pity. You need it more than I do.

 

[AlucardGV]

she apologized? meh, she should have told everybody to fuck off

 

[Amneziak]

Now that she's apologized she should remove the braids and do dreadlocks.

 

[Akainu]

Looks really good on her, especially the top pic.

It really doesn't but it her hair she can do what ever she wants with it.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Do you honestly believe an imaginary "white culture" exists? Do you think there is a culture that all white people belong to regardless of where they were born, how they were raised, or what language they speak?

I'm American and was raised in American culture. I'm mixed race. I've never seen this fabled white culture. It's called American culture and the greatest thing about it is the attempt at breaking down cultural walls and fear of diversity.

If you are so blinded to this that you choose to hold on to this "us vs them" mentality over a hairstyle, save your pity. You need it more than I do.

.

Edit: Institutional racism still very much exists though, that's a silly thing to say.

I wonder if the internet has create a new outrage culture.

You used to have to work to express outrage . . . you had to write to the editor, start a newsletter, create a petition, organize a protest, attend a protest, etc.

Now all you have to do is rant on twitter, create a thread, post an image macro on your facebook, etc.

People bitch about so many non issues these days. Like a fucking hair style. FFS.

Don't you see? This 12 year-old girl innocently posting a picture of her hair in this manner is a slight against the overall African-American community because of hundreds of years of history and some racist white people looking down upon certain attributes of black culture until it's adapted by other white people and then generally is accepted more by those same white people. She deserves all of the personal frustration and insults from people for her ignorance and it's good that she publicly apologized for being racist. Hopefully she can ask the African-American community as a whole next time before she wants to dress or wear her hair a certain way. Also, no other cultures are present in this vacuum and they don't share and/or merge various cultural things in any way, including food, hairstyles, clothing, language, or anything.

 

[dbztrk]

The outrage is so stupid. Kudo's to the girl for not reacting negatively to their outrage.

I think the box braids looks fine on her.

 

[GYODX]

Members of appropriated cultures, oddly, don't think it's utterly stupid.

So that is every culture that has ever existed. But with the caveat that it's only offensive when marginalized cultures are on the receiving end of the appropriation. And as someone who doesn't live in a place where race relations work as they do in the US, I, too, am expected to observe these arbitrary rules.

Good thing I decided a long time ago that I didn't care enough to live my life catering to everyone's feelings, and that whatever sanctimonious admonishments of the sort I have the rare (but not unheard of!) displeasure of encountering in my day to day life in Puerto Rico I can just disregard as mere parroting of a narrative from places with heavy US-centrism, coming from people who are too ignorant to correct for that bias.

 

[Trey]

I get that it would be nice for black people to get recognition. But do people literally want Macklemore to being every performance with "thank you [creators of rap, whose names I don't know]" or something similar? Or is it more about people in general being more informed about history and cultural roots? I mean, it'd be great for people (including myself) to be more educated and ware of history, but don't think it's a realistic thing to ask.

The problem is not really with Macklemore per se. If he was actually a dope MC folks wouldn't care much about his skin color. It's that he's decidedly unworthy of note aside from being a white rapper the mainstream "can relate to," so he indulges in the glory of recognition while masterclasses in the art form are marginalized. It appears as if his whiteness is more valuable than his skill, and even he seems aware of this.

All that being said, I'm sure Macklemore is a huge fan of rap and I have no problem with him in particular.

As for your last point, it's absolutely necessary to understand the history and the plight of the oppressed. Just as it is necessary for the debased to understand the power of the oppressive. Understanding is the conduit to empathy, which is the antidote for most if not all the aggravating elements of race relations (among other infractions humans commit upon other humans).

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'll ask a very simple question. How can a desegregated society exist if cultures cannot merge? By your logic black women who straighten their hair should be looked down upon. Black men who wear jeans should be looked down upon. Anyone who does anything that was created and made popular by another culture should be looked down upon. So call me ignorant, but how can desegregation actually happen when people carry this attitude toward culture?

Because it's a response to segregation, disenfranchisement, systematic racism and oppression and not the other way around? If the former wasn't so huge in America, then the latter wouldn't be an issue.

As black people have been saying since the beginning of time. Everyone wants to be black but no one wants to be black. As in America wants all the cool stuff from black people, but don't want the people that come with it.

Thanks for the non retaliatory response. Creating imaginary lines that cannot be crossed by people of another race is a form of segregation.

And that goes both ways.

 

[Rembrandt]

Do you honestly believe an imaginary "white culture" exists? Do you think there is a culture that all white people belong to regardless of where they were born, how they were raised, or what language they speak?

I'm American and was raised in American culture. I'm mixed race. I've never seen this fabled white culture. It's called American culture and the greatest thing about it is the attempt at breaking down cultural walls and fear of diversity.

If you are so blinded to this that you choose to hold on to this "us vs them" mentality over a hairstyle, save your pity. You need it more than I do.

You gonna respond to the rest of his post or just focus on the majority culture bit?

 

[Pegosaurus]

Hairstyle isn't culture

Sorry

 

[Rembrandt]

Hairstyle isn't culture

Sorry

But it is, though? Go to Jamaica and tell the rastafarians that dreads aren't part of their culture/religion.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Hairstyle isn't culture

Sorry

There should be a rule against remedial posts with no substance.

 

[Trey]

Hairstyle isn't culture

Sorry

You are incorrect. It's always fun when the simple wikipedia article suffices.

A hairstyle, hairdo, or haircut refers to the styling of hair, usually on the human scalp. The fashioning of hair can be considered an aspect of personal grooming, fashion, and cosmetics, although practical, cultural, and popular considerations also influence some hairstyles.

Also, please read this excellent post by Angelus Errare on the subject.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I just tried to PM Aisha to get the scoops, but her account is unPMable. I'm done with neogaf.

yikes, what did you weirdos do to make that necessary

 

[CapNBritain]

The problem is not really with Macklemore per se. If he was actually a dope MC folks wouldn't care much about his skin color. It's that he's decidedly unworthy of note aside from being a white rapper the mainstream "can relate to," so he indulges in the glory of recognition while masterclasses in the art form are marginalized. It appears as if his whiteness is more valuable than his skill, and even he seems aware of this.

All that being said, I'm sure Macklemore is a huge fan of rap and I have no problem with him in particular.

As for your last point, it's absolutely necessary to understand the history and the plight of the oppressed. Just as it is necessary for the debased to understand the power of the oppressive. Understanding is the conduit to empathy, which is the antidote for most if not all the aggravating elements of race relations (among other infractions humans commit upon other humans).

You're right, understanding the history and the plight of the oppressed is important. And while something the lack of mainstream knowledge concerning the origins of twerking, rap, or jazz may seem trivial, I can also see how those are just examples of America's overall unwillingness to reflect back upon its history. I do believe that in this day in age, most people are ignorant because of laziness as opposed to outright malicious denial, and that too, is a shame.

Because it's a response to segregation, disenfranchisement, systematic racism and oppression and not the other way around? If the former wasn't so huge in America, then the latter wouldn't be an issue.

As black people have been saying since the beginning of time. Everyone wants to be black but no one wants to be black. As in America wants all the cool stuff from black people, but don't want the people that come with it.

Thanks for the perspective. I've never really known about the "everyone wants to be black but no one wants to be black" thing, so I appreciate these sorts of informative posts.

 

[Rembrandt]

You're right, understanding the history and the plight of the oppressed is important. And while something the lack of mainstream knowledge concerning the origins of twerking, rap, or jazz may seem trivial, I can also see how those are just examples of America's overall unwillingness to reflect back upon its history. I do believe that in this day in age, most people are ignorant because of laziness as opposed to outright malicious denial, and that too, is a shame

You're one of the few people in here actually making an attempt to understand, so there's definitely some outright malicious denial.

 

[Rktk]

I'm well aware of your sarcasm. I was pointing out that it was stupid sarcasm. And did you verify that the people mad at this kid were mad about Eminem? Or did you just decide that all black people upset about appropriation can be painted with these broad strokes?

I'm saying getting mad in either case makes as much sense. You tried to differentiate it by saying Eminem was poor and has his own "style" and so somehow gets a pass? What's the qualification for box braids?

 

[Nostremitus]

You gonna respond to the rest of his post or just focus on the majority culture bit?

What part did I not respond to?

The part where he associated the hate of a vocal minority to the entirety of America?
It's the same "us vs them" mentality and it's feeding off itself being spat back and forth amongst various groups. Its existence isn't an excuse to feed it and make it worse.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

 

[Pegosaurus]

But it is, though? Go to Jamaica and tell the rastafarians that dreads aren't part of their culture/religion.

There should be a rule against remedial posts with no substance.

You are incorrect. It's always fun when the simple wikipedia article suffices.

[/B]

Also, please read this excellent post by Angelus Errare on the subject.

OK fair enough, in retrospect I should have explained my views on the idea of culture before making an ignorant post, but it's hard sometimes for me to organize my thoughts when posting so I like to keep them concise. In this scenario, I feel as though perhaps both parties are at issue. The boxbraid hairstyle is seemingly important for black culture, and I can understand why they wouldn't want this girl to wear them and see it as cultural appropriation, but I also feel that it's not their place to determine who wears their hair as what, regardless of whether or not it's important to them. Is it fair to monopolize something because it "belongs" to another culture. In this regard, I feel as though hairstyle or any aesthetic factors should not be considered culture as it only raises more problems.

However I'm one of those people who thinks that there shouldn't be separate cultures, so take it as you will.

I hope I explained myself well.

 

[jadedm17]

Fourteen year old girl more mature then anyone commenting. Cool girl, I'm a fan.

 

[Rembrandt]

What part did I not respond to?

The part where he associated the hate of a vocal minority to the entirety of America?
It's the same "us vs them" mentality and it's feeding off itself being spat back and forth amongst various groups. Its existence isn't an excuse to feed it and make it worse.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

Wait, wait, are you really saying institutional racism doesn't exist anymore? NIGGA PLEASE lmao. You cannot be serious. There will absolutely be debate regarding that because it's 100% wrong and it's really sad you're arguing otherwise.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

I swear someone should start a tumblr that calles out "Cultural Isolation" every time "appropriation" backlash stupidly erupts over shit like this. All its doing is hurting the cause and making a joke of the whole issue.

she apologized? meh, she should have told everybody to fuck off

Seriously.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

You are incorrect. It's always fun when the simple wikipedia article suffices.

[/B]

Also, please read this excellent post by Angelus Errare on the subject.

This thread was posted while I was asleep.

I was originally going to come in and post a giant essayas to why this issue isn't really about the girl in question, and to attempt to educate some of the foolishness that I saw in here, but then Angelus already did it for me.

It needs to be in the OP.

Edit:

Jesus fucking CHRIST.

What part did I not respond to?

The part where he associated the hate of a vocal minority to the entirety of America?
It's the same "us vs them" mentality and it's feeding off itself being spat back and forth amongst various groups. Its existence isn't an excuse to feed it and make it worse.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

What? Fucking what? What? WHAT?!

 

[Sesha]

Eminem came from poverty and has his own style of rapping. But keep going, watching ignorant people run their mouth is amusing.

I think GAF has eaten too much sugar today. It's not acting well.

 

[Angelus Errare]

However I'm one of those people who thinks that there shouldn't be separate cultures, so take it as you will. .

And in an idea/utopia world there wouldn't be. Groups of oppressed people will always fight to preserve what little they have. We see this depicted in movies and books countless times because it's a very true thing. The more you oppress a group the more they rebel and close inward to protect what they have.

People in this thread keep talking about blacks need to assimilate but they fail to realise that blacks aren't the ones stopping said assimilation. Blacks have been trying to assimilate into America since they were brought here. That's all they've ever been trying to do. Despite the slavery, lynching, raping, killing, disenfranchisement, oppression...they still hold their hand out for acceptance. Isn't that sombering as all hell? A group of people have been treated like complete ass for 300+ years and still all they want is acceptance and acknowledgement?

A few members in this thread have brought forth delusional idea that black people are segregating themselves, black people are simply reacting to the centuries of segregation and oppression they've faced.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while.

Holy shit man. This is like denying there was ever a holocaust. Holy fucking shit.

I'm not going to insult you or shit down your throat. But educate yourself for the love of all that is fucking good in this world read this amazing thread that Amir0x created!

OMG, I'm going to go lie down!

OMG

OMG

OMFG

 

[FeenixRising]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

wait a minute.... i need to catch my breath

 

[Rembrandt]

And in an idea/utopia world there wouldn't be. Groups of oppressed people will always fight to preserve what little they have. We see this depicted in movies and books countless times because it's a very true thing. The more you oppress a group the more they rebel and close inward to protect what they have.

People in this thread keep talking about blacks need to assimilate but they fail to realise that blacks aren't the ones stopping said assimilation. Blacks have been trying to assimilate into America since they were brought here. That's all they've ever been trying to do. Despite the slavery, lynching, raping, killing, disenfranchisement, oppression...they still hold their hand out for acceptance. Isn't that sombering as all hell? A group of people have been treated like complete ass for 300+ years and still all they want is acceptance and acknowledgement?

A few members in this thread have brought forth delusional idea that black people are segregating themselves, black people are simply reacting to the centuries of segregation and oppression they've faced.



Holy shit man. This is like denying there was ever a holocaust. Holy fucking shit.

I'm not going to insult you or shit down your throat. But educate yourself for the love of all that is fucking good in this world read this amazing thread that Amir0x created!

OMG, I'm going to go lie down!

OMG

OMG

OMFG

I was hoping nobody linked that so he would have to come back and explain that bullshit, lmao.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

LOL!

LOL!

 

[Cream]

What part did I not respond to?

The part where he associated the hate of a vocal minority to the entirety of America?
It's the same "us vs them" mentality and it's feeding off itself being spat back and forth amongst various groups. Its existence isn't an excuse to feed it and make it worse.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

Jesus Christ fuck me

 

[Pegosaurus]

And in an idea/utopia world there wouldn't be. Groups of oppressed people will always fight to preserve what little they have. We see this depicted in movies and books countless times because it's a very true thing. The more you oppress a group the more they rebel and close inward to protect what they have.

People in this thread keep talking about blacks need to assimilate but they fail to realise that blacks aren't the ones stopping said assimilation. Blacks have been trying to assimilate into America since they were brought here. That's all they've ever been trying to do. Despite the slavery, lynching, raping, killing, disenfranchisement, oppression...they still hold their hand out for acceptance. Isn't that sombering as all hell? A group of people have been treated like complete ass for 300+ years and still all they want is acceptance and acknowledgement?

A few members in this thread have brought forth delusional idea that black people are segregating themselves, black people are simply reacting to the centuries of segregation and oppression they've faced.



Holy shit man. This is like denying there was ever a holocaust. Holy fucking shit.

I'm not going to insult you or shit down your throat. But educate yourself for the love of all that is fucking good in this world read this amazing thread that Amir0x created!

OMG, I'm going to go lie down!

OMG

OMG

OMFG

I agree, I think it's through no fault of their own, and I can only imagine how hard it must be to be part of a culture that is repeatedly rejected by the society that they want to belong to. Hopefully at some point in the future, everything will be assimilated. It will be sad for many to see their respective individual cultures disappear, but I think it's a necessary step humanity has to take.

Also, I think your previous post was very informative, regardless of personal views that I hold.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I think she looks good, she should have kept them honestly, I mean white people don't keep black people out of opera theaters....do they?

 

[Floridian]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

 

[A Link to the Past]

LOL!

LOL!

OMG thank you. Whenever I wanted to discuss the racial disparity w/ drugs, all I could get was this one police report from Alabama or something.

 

[Fenderputty]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

This is just about where I stop thinking any future posts of your are worth reading. Curious how you respond to the multitude of evidence that's coming your way. We had an entire thread dedicated to the concept here.

 

[dralla]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

 

[Malyse]

What part did I not respond to?

The part where he associated the hate of a vocal minority to the entirety of America?
It's the same "us vs them" mentality and it's feeding off itself being spat back and forth amongst various groups. Its existence isn't an excuse to feed it and make it worse.

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

You are a fucking idiot.

 

[DJ Crimson]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=148315988#post148315988

 

[sir_kevith]

People in this thread keep talking about blacks need to assimilate but they fail to realise that blacks aren't the ones stopping said assimilation. Blacks have been trying to assimilate into America since they were brought here. That's all they've ever been trying to do. Despite the slavery, lynching, raping, killing, disenfranchisement, oppression...they still hold their hand out for acceptance. Isn't that sombering as all hell? A group of people have been treated like complete ass for 300+ years and still all they want is acceptance and acknowledgement?

I wish people actually saw it this way. I was thinking about this while taking a bath the other day: America has issues with black people celebrating black things in America saying all kinds of stuff like they're "segregating themselves". We don't give the Irish (just an example of a non-black culture) shit for celebrating Irish stuff.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I almost feel like that post is ban bait.

Like, someone flies too close to the sun in an attempt to deal with it and ends up taking a vacation.

I'm trying to figure out what I can compare that level of ignorance to, and I've got nothing. It's as if that person has literally lived in a cave by himself, with only Fox News and Stormfront for media purposes.

 

[Moze]

Such a weird reaction. She seems like a nice person from that apology and her hair looks great.

EDIT: She is 14? Why are people bullying a 14 year old?

 

[bishoptl]

It's not the 50's any more. Institutional racism hasn't existed for a while. Unless there are some people in here who equate affirmative action to racism, there shouldn't be any dispute regarding this.

Internet access in mom's basement is a double-edged sword, methinks.

 

[FeenixRising]

Internet access in mom's basement is a double-edged sword, methinks.

got damn