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[Dies Iræ]

I mean, if you think the site sucks, don't come. If you like the site, participate. If you're not sure yet, wait and see. It's a big internet. I didn't visit those spots personally, but to my knowledge KiA had a pretty huge hate hard-on for GAF and it sounded obsessive and unhealthy, so I'm dubious of your description of it and dropping a giant post like this when you say you don't care for this place kind of fits with my understanding of it in relation to GAF. It's a video game message board. Is all the internet drama really necessary? I know GAF itself was a haven for drama, but it's all exhausting and dumb and most of it picked up and went elsewhere anyhow. Let's just move on.

If this is how you respond to a genuine expression of frustration (and, I might point out, cautious hope) by someone who's been reading your site for over a decade, I think you're in trouble...

 

[OrionFalls]

If this is how you respond to a genuine expression of frustration (and, I might point out, cautious hope) by someone who's been reading your site for over a decade, I think you're in trouble...

And yet he’s right. When all the drama over the allegation was going on, so many people were complaining about this forum and that they hate it and are leaving — yet continued to post here. If you don’t like a certain food, don’t eat it. If you don’t like a certain song, skip it. If you don’t like the forum, don’t use it. It’s really quite simple.

 

[Blam]

And yet he’s right. When all the drama over the allegation was going on, so many people were complaining about this forum and that they hate it and are leaving — yet continued to post here. If you don’t like a certain food, don’t eat it. If you don’t like a certain song, skip it. If you don’t like the forum, don’t use it. It’s really quite simple.

Also like the people who continuously messaged can you "ban my account, can you delete my account, im gonna stop posting, bye gaf". It's like if you really wanted to leave you wouldn't have said a word. The insane look at me attention push at the split was stupid to say the least.

 

[prag16]

And yet he’s right. When all the drama over the allegation was going on, so many people were complaining about this forum and that they hate it and are leaving — yet continued to post here. If you don’t like a certain food, don’t eat it. If you don’t like a certain song, skip it. If you don’t like the forum, don’t use it. It’s really quite simple.

Furthermore, the post he was responding to contained multiple thinly veiled personal attacks on Evilore, so I'm not surprised his reply showed some level of irritation. Sure, he probably should have taken steps sooner to try to get things under control. He has admitted as much. I'll cut the guy some slack. He just had his name dragged through the mud on very dubious grounds. He probably took that better than I would have.

 

[Blam]

Furthermore, the post he was responding to contained multiple thinly veiled personal attacks on Evilore, so I'm not surprised his reply showed some level of irritation. Sure, he probably should have taken steps sooner to try to get things under control. He has admitted as much. I'll cut the guy some slack. He just had his name dragged through the mud on very dubious grounds. He probably took that better than I would have.

He took it much better then nearly anyone else who would have been in the same position. He was extremely levelheaded throughout the entire ordeal.

 

[golfham]

And herein lies the problem.

It’s just a post—pixels on a screen. I think you’ll live.

 

[prag16]

And herein lies the problem.

No. Wrong.

You may feel more at home over on the new site.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

If this is how you respond to a genuine expression of frustration (and, I might point out, cautious hope) by someone who's been reading your site for over a decade, I think you're in trouble...

He’s telling you the options.

If you used to love it here, and were pushed out... come back and contribute with the “rebuilding”. If it’s not worth it for you, don’t.

It’s your choice.

You are welcome here. If you don’t want to be here, best of luck and the doors always open to you.

That’s my interpretation

 

[InterMusketeer]

Because people were entering the LGBTQ OT and starting on them. Of course they’re going to defend themselves in a thread that was created specifically for them. Do you not defend yourself against an intruder in your home?

I don't have any experience with the OT. What I described was an attitude I encountered often times in Off-Topic and on the Gaming side too. I'm not even specifically talking about trans folks. It could be a thread about police violence or women and games, and there'd be people complaining they had such hard lives, because of sexism or racism, and that they couldn't even get a break from it all when they went online. And then they'd sit there in that thread going: "If I have to read argument X again, I think I'm going to kill myself." In those cases, yeah, my advice would be to not enter those controversial threads.

So just let the hot takes and ignorance run rampant with no one to say anything against? Nah a lot of those people went in there because they cared and knew full well what kind of things they'd hear and wanted to push back against that stuff.

Then they shouldn't complain that they 'have to' repeat the same thing. You can't realistically expect everyone to read 50+ pages, so some arguments may return. If you can't take that, don't read the thread.

 

[golfham]

I do find it funny when people complain about group think and how biased old GAF was but drop "feminazis" or "SJW" without a second thought or hint of irony.



So just let the hot takes and ignorance run rampant with no one to say anything against? Nah a lot of those people went in there because they cared and knew full well what kind of things they'd hear and wanted to push back against that stuff.

Your parotting of phrases like “hot takes” makes me assume that your post is satirical.

 

[OrionFalls]

No. Wrong.

You may feel more at home over on the new site.

Why’s that?

 

[HStallion]

I tried to explain why this here happens:


Both sides are using the same smear tactics nothing else. And I am not such a person I do not think in a group but social media does. And the us vs: them the black or white talk does not make it possible to have actual discussions for most of the time. Even though I think it is changing at least here.

It is just one extreme vs another extreme

Ahh the both sides argument. The classic.

Then they shouldn't complain that they 'have to' repeat the same thing. You can't realistically expect everyone to read 50+ pages, so some arguments may return. If you can't take that, don't read the thread.

Why shouldn't people complain about it? Having to repeat yourself over and over and over again about why you deserve the same respect as anyone else because who you are attracted to or what gender you identify as or anything else along those lines depressing and degrading. They have every right to complain because its often an intimate part of who they are much the same as people who agree and want to look out for them. Its totally fine if they want to complain because its bull shit of the smelliest kind to have to defend who you are time and time again.

Your parotting of phrases like “hot takes” makes me assume that your post is satirical.

No its very much serious. Call them what you like but how many threads devolved into the same couple of shitty opinions repeated time and time again. Its like having to explain what GamerGate was years after the fact when there hundreds or articles, wikipedia entries and dozens of threads on this very site talking all about that "movement".

 

[InterMusketeer]

Why shouldn't people complain about it? Having to repeat yourself over and over and over again about why you deserve the same respect as anyone else because who you are attracted to or what gender you identify as or anything else along those lines depressing and degrading. They have every right to complain because its often an intimate part of who they are much the same as people who agree and want to look out for them. Its totally fine if they want to complain because its bull shit of the smelliest kind to have to defend who you are time and time again.

They don't have to repeat themselves. They chose to. They don't have to respond to every argument anyone makes on the internet. They don't have to stick around in a thread if people want to discuss things or share opinions they don't like. They don't have to defend themselves on the internet. If one decides to do all those things anyway, to the point where they start acting like assholes, that's all on them, and no one needs to put up with that.

 

[HStallion]

They don't have to repeat themselves. They chose to. They don't have to respond to every argument anyone makes on the internet. They don't have to stick around in a thread if people want to discuss things or share opinions they don't like. They don't have to defend themselves on the internet. If one decides to do all those things anyway, to the point where they start acting like assholes, that's all on them, and no one needs to put up with that.

You could take your own advice and ignore the complainers, literally or figuratively or avoid those topics much like you say they should and so on and so forth. You're not any more special than they are and acting like its all on them to ignore bull shit and just take it in silence is rich.

 

[InterMusketeer]

You could take your own advice and ignore the complainers, literally or figuratively or avoid those topics much like you say they should and so on and so forth. You're not any more special than they are and acting like its all on them to ignore bull shit and just take it in silence is rich.

Well, it seems there's a group of members who were annoyed by the type of people I talked about. It's what this thread's about. And they were actively making this community worse by drowning out and silencing any voices they didn't agree with. I don't think I'm responsible for that kind of behavior, and reading posts on the internet doesn't make me want to kill myself, so I guess I'm already practicing what I preach.

 

[TwiztidElf]

I'm glad this thread has come up.
About a year ago a friend of mine pointed out a trend that he'd observed on reddit. He'd noticed that there seemed to be a pattern, almost an organised agenda to politicise everything. As if it was an intentional and organised hijack and sabotage of internet interest communities.

So I started looking out for it on oldgaf, and sure enough there it was. The truth is in post history. I started looking at the post histories of people who started intentionally controversial political threads. Sure enough, for many of them, that was their entire existence on oldgaf. Exclusively starting and participating in controversial political threads. No participation whatsoever in video game threads (unless they were political), or other non-political OT threads.
I've actually noticed this very same phenomenon already over on that new site.

I know this sounds like it's bordering on tin foil hat territory, but it sure makes you think (well me anyway).

 

[HStallion]

Well, it seems there's a group of members who were annoyed by the type of people I talked about. It's what this thread's about. And they were actively making this community worse by drowning out and silencing any voices they didn't agree with. I don't think I'm responsible for that kind of behavior, and reading posts on the internet doesn't make me want to kill myself, so I guess I'm already practicing what I preach.

Ahh classy post about how you didn't commit suicide like an incredibly marginalized group that suffer from high suicide rates. Yeah I wonder why the Trans community could be assholes to people on here...

 

[Dunki]

Ahh the both sides argument. The classic. .

If you really do not believe that there are both sides of extremes out there I can not help ypu. Example?

So yes both sides. It is incredible how people can even think that there is no a good and evil side...

Oh and if you do not know who these people are. Google helps. They are pretty known in a feministc world

 

[Relativ9]

I'm glad this thread has come up.
About a year ago a friend of mine pointed out a trend that he'd observed on reddit. He'd noticed that there seemed to be a pattern, almost an organised agenda to politicise everything. As if it was an intentional and organised hijack and sabotage of internet interest communities.

So I started looking out for it on oldgaf, and sure enough there it was. The truth is in post history. I started looking at the post histories of people who started intentionally controversial political threads. Sure enough, for many of them, that was their entire existence on oldgaf. Exclusively starting and participating in controversial political threads. No participation whatsoever in video game threads (unless they were political), or other non-political OT threads.
I've actually noticed this very same phenomenon already over on that new site.

I know this sounds like it's bordering on tin foil hat territory, but it sure makes you think (well me anyway).

Nah that's natural though, a lot of people get a lot more passionate about politics and social issues than video games or other less serious topics. I myself started out posting on the gaming side but slowly more and more over to OT as the time I had to browse decreased along with my gaming time. These days I barely play new games and so have little interest to post about it, politics though are inescapable and I care deeply about the state of the world.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Ahh classy post about how you didn't commit suicide like an incredibly marginalized group that suffer from high suicide rates. Yeah I wonder why the Trans community could be assholes to people on here...

This thread isn't even about trans folks specifically anymore, and I specified in an earlier post I was talking about all kinds of people, not just trans people. But hey, if you want to misrepresent what I said so you can ignore all my other points, that's fine. Hope you feel better about yourself!

 

[HStallion]

This thread isn't even about trans folks specifically anymore, and I specified in an earlier post I was talking about all kinds of people, not just trans people. But hey, if you want to misrepresent what I said so you can ignore all my other points, that's fine. Hope you feel better about yourself!

Ok let me make amends to my statement. Ahh a classy post about how you didn't commit suicide like so many other people who do. Real classy.

 

[Dunki]

Ok let me make amends to my statement. Ahh a classy post about how you didn't commit suicide like so many other people who do. Real classy.

I love how to try to downplay every argument you do not agree with. Especially with this classy move of calling it classy. Maybe you should put some homo- transophobic racist or sexist accusations in it to make it real classy.

'But yeah I am out. Have a nice Life.

 

[HStallion]

I love how to try to downplay every argument you do not agree with. Especially with this classy move of calling it classy. Maybe you should put some homo- transophobic racist or sexist accusations in it to make it real classy.

'But yeah I am out. Have a nice Life.

I don't think you know what downplaying means if that's your take.

 

[Clockwork5]

Your everyday white, straight male is not subjected to the level of hate that a trans person would get. So, no, your statement is wrong. I, as a white straight male, do not need protection. A trans person, who is subject to vile attacks on a daily basis purely because they are who they are, does need protection. The whole equality argument does not fly here.

Are there any other groups, which when attacked, need no protection?

 

[SatansReverence]

I don't think you know what downplaying means if that's your take.

I find it quite funny how basically all your posts in this thread amount to nothing more than crying that neogaf is no longer your special safe place and alt left echo chamber.

 

[HStallion]

I find it quite funny how basically all your posts in this thread amount to nothing more than crying that neogaf is no longer your special safe place and alt left echo chamber.

Well thanks for breaking down and clearing up what I have been saving across several posts through the thread.

 

[HercRaato]

This has been an enlightening thread. To see some actual discussion instead of the if your not with us you against us mentality.

Before the breakup the old OT was an echo chamber. I am not very articulate so I don't post much, but seeing actual discussion and debate with a few outliers give me hope for the future of this site.

 

[Angie22]

You guys are really stuck in the past.

 

[DGrayson]

You guys are really stuck in the past.

Hi Angie, thanks for joining NeoGaf. We look forward to having you as a contributing member.

However, please limit these sorts of reactionary posts which arent really adding to the conversation. Reasoned responses are welcome however.

Thanks!

 

[PtM]

Hi Angie, thanks for joining NeoGaf. We look forward to having you as a contributing member.

However, please limit these sorts of reactionary posts which arent really adding to the conversation. Reasoned responses are welcome however.

Thanks!

Reason: The whining about another ERA gets tiresome.

 

[Neff]

The way I saw it-

GAF had a very left-leaning proportion of the mod team and, over time, the board was encouraged to see things the same way, whether it wanted to or not. People who behaved like adults and came to debates by looking at both sides were treated like children and shut down or outright banned. People addressed extremely complex and heated topics with reactionary, two-dimensional views while at the same time aspiring to fashionable group approval- a dangerous combination. People fed their rage addiction by 'debating' with emotions rather than reason, arguments and counter-arguments. Misanthropy under the thin guise of virtue signalling ran rampant. Courtesy went out the window at the merest hint of disagreement. It simply wasn't an environment where people did the decent thing and extended the benefit of the doubt. You were guilty until proven innocent.

Unless of course you did the sensible thing and avoided any politically-charged topic which was just asking to become a train wreck.

 

[Rubbish King]

I would read the forum every day after school. It had a real sense of community. It was a very positive community

This so bad, I mean I don't want to comment on the other aspects of what you had to say. It was my internet home. Going to other sites almost felt like a trip out.
I feel the same way about how it supported me in my teens, I learned a lot here. GAF provided the first few steps to opening up my mind to my own biases and bigotries, it showed me how to develop more well-reasoned arguments, made me more interested in politics and current events and also how to be more critical of sources. It helped me learn how to get fit, sort life out after being stuck in a dead-end job and if I hadn't found here, I'd never have met BritGAF, who guided me through some of the worst times in my life. It wasn't always perfect, nor was I a model poster but I'm grateful for the help it gave during that time in my life.

However, maybe the fact you're older also has something to do with it? Yeah those hardcore people so far removed from reality were a pain in the ass and were certainly a factor in my usage of GAF. But life does go on, you're older now and perhaps realising that you don't want to waste your time not only debating with people unwilling to listen to reason but on forums in general. That is what I think happened to me. I mean I still like to visit from time to time, but I think in adulthood time has become more precious. In school I used to spend most of my day with GAF open on my phone or desktop, always refreshing and staying up late into the night. 4/5 years on and the time I've spent trying to write this post in a way that reflects my opinion, wording it in a way that doesn't seem rude or disrespectful feels like time I should have spent on something more constructive IRL.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

I mean, if you think the site sucks, don't come. If you like the site, participate. If you're not sure yet, wait and see. It's a big internet. I didn't visit those spots personally, but to my knowledge KiA had a pretty huge hate hard-on for GAF and it sounded obsessive and unhealthy, so I'm dubious of your description of it and dropping a giant post like this when you say you don't care for this place kind of fits with my understanding of it in relation to GAF. It's a video game message board. Is all the internet drama really necessary? I know GAF itself was a haven for drama, but it's all exhausting and dumb and most of it picked up and went elsewhere anyhow. Let's just move on.

I’m sorry but this just comes off fake. You of all people were contributing to a lot of ongoing drama by popping into threads very randomly and just shutting down conversation or shutting people up via bans and long winded rants. Drama is entertainment. I could go to IGN to get the latest news about E3 announcements but why would I when half the fun is watching others experience the hype in real time? You’re right, the internet is a big place, but you’re going to have to create something unique to make it worth my time to visit here. We had a community before, whether parts of it were toxic or not, and that was the selling point of what made it great. You and your moderation team created the monster that attacked you by bullshit transparency, rude attacks on individual members and a very biased tolerance of opinion. It wasn’t drama. There’s just a breaking point that people have when you consitantly act a certain way that most people don’t want to put up with.

What exactly is the plan of action for this website? Saying “come to GAF if it fits you” doesn’t give me an reassurance that this website can recover. from a business perspective I would recommend to not be so delayed in acting on improving engagement given it was your delayed ability to act on the crisis in October that caused the massive migration out of here in the first place.

The community is what built this place, never forget that, regardless of how overly dramatic they were. Without them this place is nothing, and unfortunately the rapid decline of user engagement is very telling of where this place will end up.

 

[Lord Panda]

I haven't posted in a long time here but here goes.

OP, the same could be argued in most communities irrespective of the group or board they are members of. The main problem here was that the hostility and bad faith was allowed to go unchecked under the umbrella of free discussion sometimes abetted by the mods themselves. Cult of personalities and tribalism flourished and some threads were just miserable to be involved with. There were instances where I held back what I wanted to say because I knew it wasn't worth the dogpiling. There were instances where I wasn't brave enough to defend other members that were being targeted by the usual crowd.

Now that element has moved to a different board and the same problems are manifesting in some of the threads there despite the best intentions of its mods and admins. I don't think this issue will ever go away but as long as the mods and admins stay awesome (like they are here and on the other site), there will always be hope. I'm not exactly a model poster either but I am endeavouring to become a better and less acerbic and negative member.

 

[GotrekNoFelix]

Speaking from an outside perspective it never struck me as a specifically transgender issue so much as it was a militant progressive issue. It's just that I think one of the big focuses of liberals or progressives now is for trans-rights with militants obviously taking the evangelicalism to extreme heights as you'd expect.
As to the why of it I think it's just a reflection of the increased politicisation of society. It seems to me that we're approaching a point where the two far ends of the spectrum have never hated one another so much without outright bloody conflict. Given that I appreciate that they're mostly just shouting at eachother over the internet because it's certainly a lot healthier for everyone. To the point the vetting process of NeoGaf along with the political biases and aggressive enforcement that defined the sites earlier moderation meant that one side quickly won out over the other and entrenched themselves within the greater community. For the average liberal the progressive or leftist extreme side of things certainly seems better at a glance than the other side of things so a lot of people, even if they took issue with the way things were going, presumably didn't speak out simply because they felt it'd be unhelpful to the greater struggle of "their group" to criticise "their guys" even if they didn't agree with the extremes that "their guys" were reaching.

Again this is from an outsiders perspective but I don't think this is something exclusive to NeoGaf, you see it all throughout the internet with communities being ruled over and their discourse defined by the militant minority that they put up with because "at least they're not the other guys".

 

[GotrekNoFelix]

Deleted by moderation team.

Stuff like this is precisely how you get into a situation like the old NeoGaf. I absolutely get ensuring that this is a platform that anyone can post on without feeling as though they're under attack but you can't just shut off entire avenues of discussion which aren't blatantly offensive.
If you see someone outright attacking a transgendered person then too right you should have a word but this whole "implicit transphobia" sort of thing needs to stop or at the very least you should explain clearly and concisely what the issue is and how the person you believe to be at fault can avoid making the same mistake in the future without simply attacking them.

 

[Bill O'Rights]

I’m sorry but this just comes off fake. You of all people were contributing to a lot of ongoing drama by popping into threads very randomly and just shutting down conversation or shutting people up via bans and long winded rants. Drama is entertainment. I could go to IGN to get the latest news about E3 announcements but why would I when half the fun is watching others experience the hype in real time? You’re right, the internet is a big place, but you’re going to have to create something unique to make it worth my time to visit here. We had a community before, whether parts of it were toxic or not, and that was the selling point of what made it great. You and your moderation team created the monster that attacked you by bullshit transparency, rude attacks on individual members and a very biased tolerance of opinion. It wasn’t drama. There’s just a breaking point that people have when you consitantly act a certain way that most people don’t want to put up with.

What exactly is the plan of action for this website? Saying “come to GAF if it fits you” doesn’t give me an reassurance that this website can recover. from a business perspective I would recommend to not be so delayed in acting on improving engagement given it was your delayed ability to act on the crisis in October that caused the massive migration out of here in the first place.

The community is what built this place, never forget that, regardless of how overly dramatic they were. Without them this place is nothing, and unfortunately the rapid decline of user engagement is very telling of where this place will end up.

As always you're entitled to your opinion, but there have been many statements of remorse. Very publicly reported acts of contrition and apologies. What people really want to hear is that the witch hunt or over the top reaction was vindicated - It wasn't. This is the age of the internet, a relatively immature and fast changing communication frontier. We all remember those first BBS boards, then actual newsgroups postings (not just for *.nzb), we remember irc and icq etc. Now we have twitter, reddit and youtube comments. By and large, the experience of those platforms does not belong on 'forums'. If anything, forums are struggling to maintain and distinguish an identity. Which is why we never sought to just throw a forum up and replace the old site. There are developments in the works that are centred completely around that. This is isn't just an 'upgrade the platform' quick-fix. It's an enabler of what's to come and reshape the purpose of these types of sites.


Ultimately, what started as good intentions to embolden minority groups via a bit of extra protection, was to eventually descend into a vehicle for political rhetoric and to provide a platform for people to push an individual agenda. The community is obviously the important part of what you try to build. However, the community is also the reason why these 'soiled' moderators were cheered on. Users were being quoted with comments like '{Mod} ban this person'. The community grew exponentially from these poor foundations until it became so heavy the weak morals, faux outrage and the need to be recognised for being influential came crashing down. Responsibility and ownership of all those problems has been declared and reflected on.


You are asking about the business side of GAF? It seems like you're fishing about the health of the site. Maybe for vindication or get some inkling you were part of the movement that killed GAF. The site is not a business. And never was. We're not getting into petty forum wars. What I will say is that now we have a site where contrary views will be shared and discussed. If you feel like you want to make a public post about a political issue then prepare to be challenged on it by someone who's life experience, demograph and location is different than your own. If that environment is what you want then you'll like it here going forward. If you just want community drama, syndicated news and reaction, then yes, there are other places for that - like you said IGN, Reddit, Twitter etc.


Your last comment is the most telling of all. The community that has been here over the last month has largely been excellent. The new users we have approved in the last two days have largely been positive and quite frankly worth recognising as their conduct and contributions have been exemplary. Controversial topics have had disagreements, with room for people to have a little jostle without fear of being banned or called disgusting names

 

[Airola]

Speaking from an outside perspective it never struck me as a specifically transgender issue so much as it was a militant progressive issue.

Yeah, I think part of the "extremism" comes from how progressiveness is measured these days. At the core, they want to change the status quo. They feel the world needs a complete turnaround. Trans issues are dealing with one of the biggest things society has taken for granted for 99,99% of its existence - that there is a male and there is a female and they bring new life - and this is causing much trouble to them. So changing this feels like it's changing more than changing other issues would change. So in a sense it was easy to use the troubles of trans people to advance their idea of what being progressive is. So yeah, I agree that it wasn't really a transgender issue as much as it was about militant progressives taking advantage of troubled communities.

 

[OrionFalls]

What a lot of people seem to forget is that EviLore was never arrested/questioned, or charged with anything. He is, in the eyes of the law, innocent. The fact the victim removed her post mere minutes after posting it is quite telling. And yet all those who attacked Tyler have shown little to no remorse. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

What a lot of people seem to forget is that EviLore was never arrested/questioned, or charged with anything. He is, in the eyes of the law, innocent. The fact the victim removed her post mere minutes after posting it is quite telling. And yet all those who attacked Tyler have shown little to no remorse. Welcome to the internet.

Wouldn't it be amusing if the actual reason was simple: "I wonder if I could get Neogaf to self-immolate by making this claim now?" *minutes later* "hmm... better not." *hours later* "oops."

 

[Blood Borne]

Commies. Too much commies

 

[OrionFalls]

I have an issue with the staff choosing to edit my post due to ‘backseat modding’ despite staff quoting me and agreeing with me. The one who edited the post chose to omit their name. I thought the staff were going to be more transparent. One step forward, two steps back.

 

[dolabla]

What a lot of people seem to forget is that EviLore was never arrested/questioned, or charged with anything. He is, in the eyes of the law, innocent. The fact the victim removed her post mere minutes after posting it is quite telling. And yet all those who attacked Tyler have shown little to no remorse. Welcome to the internet.

The fact she even dated him after this supposed incident is pretty telling as well. Those holier than thou "progressives" on old Gaf had no desire to hear the other side because their warped ideology would not allow it. Saying a merely "I'm gonna wait for the facts before I make a judgment" would lead to "Oh, you hate this or that" or "you're racist, sexist, etc".

There were never two sides of the story with them. The accused was always guilty. Like someone else said, how many times had you seen old Gaf take the side of accused? I know if they did, it was extremely rare. Their minds were already made up as soon as they read about the allegation because it was a woman who brought forth the allegation. No amount of proof or anything was going to exonerate him from this.

 

[Nightstick10]

I lurked and posted on Gaf so long ago I remember the thread when "GameCube Hut" became a member. I still remember the shock and horror and utter denial I felt watching Splinter Cell outsell Metroid Prime. The reveal of the Nintendo Wiimote and DQIX for the DS stand out in my memory as the most memorable threads.

So, to answer the OP, my hypothesis is GAF had such militant subcultures because Evilore became an absentee landlord (understandably) and sort of assumed mods would responsibly moderate their own little fiefdoms; I mean, shit, those of us who remember the gaming-age forums are much, much closer to our 40s now than our 20s and I am sure for a time span he wanted to focus on other things rather than watching a horde of wildlings type out essays arguing about frames per second or dubbed vs subbed day in day out.

It probably started off innocuously enough with some deceitful yet seemingly earnest SJW type bombarding Evilore with charts and articles on how his/her oppressed group needs a complete safe space and how they are the best people to moderate that subculture thread and "don't worry Evilore I will make sure everything is running smoothly" so Evilore just said yeah yeah ok whatever I don't have time for this mickey mouse shit I am going skydiving in Zimbabwe just make sure the forum doesn't explode.

 

[Beard of the Forest]

Please tread carefully. More freedom doesn’t mean a chance to air your transphobic views. Those were the days of OldGAF, let’s move on from them.

I have an issue with the staff choosing to edit my post due to ‘backseat modding’ despite staff quoting me and agreeing with me. The one who edited the post chose to omit their name. I thought the staff were going to be more transparent. One step forward, two steps back.

First off, whenever a moderator edits a post, their name is not automatically made visible. It's a choice some make to add their names for the sake of clarity. They are under no obligation to do so. Secondly, it is OUR job as part of the moderation team to ensure that all sides of a conversation can have their say as long as they follow the TOS. Even if we whole heartedly disagree with a poster's opinion/viewpoint, we still have to protect their right to express it on this board. Your initial post not only labels posts as transphobic (in an attempt to shut down any actual discourse) it also incorrectly indicates that "OldGAF" was a place where transphobic views were tolerated. This is not even remotely true. Regrettably, this was part of our problem. In the effort to cultivate a haven for many marginalized by society many voices were silenced simply for not being in chorus with the "hive mind".

In short, please stick to the topic. Post your opinions, reinforce your side with facts, not labels, and leave posting thread warnings to moderators.

 

[Wvrs]

I think this forum, and the new one, has inherent problems due in part to its sign-up strictures (I don't know if that's changed now). Necessitating a private email account means restricting use of the forum to university students, or white-collar workers; there are exceptions to the rule, of course, but generally that would seem to make the user-base here predominantly middle class. Thus, the left here is predominantly concerned with middle class progressive issues -- I rarely see topics and debates concerned with actual problems the working classes (for whom the left is supposed to fight) face, just strawmen attacks dismissing them as racists, bigots, uneducated, etc, and maybe the odd bone thrown to them in terms of discussing minimum wage (which inevitably devolves into people with privilege misapprehending the topic). There was, and is, too much focus on the symptoms of social inequality than on the causes (social malaise is always economic at core; how could it be anything else, when we live in such a hyper-capitalist world?). The amount of posts I see decrying all white men as if every white guy is enmeshed in privilege and status; it's simply not true for those below a certain economic bracket. If you think the son of a white truck driver has an easier ride through life on account of his skin colour/sex/whatever than someone born into even a slightly higher socioeconomic bracket, regardless of their skin colour, religion, sexuality, etc, then I suggest you get out of the cul-de-sac and try better understand how society works.

 

[Beard of the Forest]

I think this forum, and the new one, has inherent problems due in part to its sign-up strictures (I don't know if that's changed now). Necessitating a private email account means restricting use of the forum to university students, or white-collar workers; there are exceptions to the rule, of course, but generally that would seem to make the user-base here predominantly middle class. Thus, the left here is predominantly concerned with middle class progressive issues -- I rarely see topics and debates concerned with actual problems the working classes (for whom the left is supposed to fight) face, just strawmen attacks dismissing them as racists, bigots, uneducated, etc, and maybe the odd bone thrown to them in terms of discussing minimum wage (which inevitably devolves into people with privilege misapprehending the topic). There was, and is, too much focus on the symptoms of social inequality than on the causes (social malaise is always economic at core; how could it be anything else, when we live in such a hyper-capitalist world?). The amount of posts I see decrying all white men as if every white guy is enmeshed in privilege and status; it's simply not true for those below a certain economic bracket. If you think the son of a white truck driver has an easier ride through life on account of his skin colour/sex/whatever than someone born into even a slightly higher socioeconomic bracket, regardless of their skin colour, religion, sexuality, etc, then I suggest you get out of the cul-de-sac and try better understand how society works.

With the platform change, people can now register with freemails. That means yahoo,gmail,hotmail,etc is valid for signing up. As for the remainder of your post, I couldn't say if any demographic information has been gathered from our members and what kind of percentages and correlations that data would reveal.

 

[Wvrs]

With the platform change, people can now register with freemails. That means yahoo,gmail,hotmail,etc is valid for signing up. As for the remainder of your post, I couldn't say if any demographic information has been gathered from our members and what kind of percentages and correlations that data would reveal.

That's a positive change; inevitably it means more moderation might be necessary, but debate shouldn't be locked behind a 'paywall'. Of course I don't know if the metrics align with what I'm suggesting, I just think it's likely when you look at general statistics for how many of the working class go on to higher education, skilled work and so on. But I suppose it could just as well be that people with more money are more likely to engage in discussion of a relatively expensive hobby like video-gaming.

 

[Vicetrailia]

If you think the son of a white truck driver has an easier ride through life on account of his skin colour/sex/whatever than someone born into even a slightly higher socioeconomic bracket, regardless of their skin colour, religion, sexuality, etc, then I suggest you get out of the cul-de-sac and try better understand how society works.

Social mobility in the U.S. is already low, but are you prepared to get past anecdotes, and get more perspectives? You have general issues, gender issues, race issues and more. You can't simply dismiss them because they don't always include white men.

 

[Blood Borne]

Social mobility in the U.S. is already low, but are you prepared to get past anecdotes, and get more perspectives? You have general issues, gender issues, race issues and more. You can't simply dismiss them because they don't always include white men.

Gender issues, race issues and whatnot are inconsequential, it's not a problem, it's the left blowing it out of proportion in order to pass leftist policies and further their tax/wealth redistribution agenda.