KevinCow said:How do you figure? It seems like nearly every game released these days tries to have big, expensive cutscenes.
Big, expensive cutscenes =/= videogame storytelling
KevinCow said:How do you figure? It seems like nearly every game released these days tries to have big, expensive cutscenes.
SalsaShark said:Well i guess we just dont agree then, i actually want to see the medium expand and do interesting stuff, and that developers realize the stuff they can do in terms of telling a story, transmit it to mass audience, and for games to become respected in this regard.
Following what you are saying games are basically gonna be considered "lol kiddie toyz" forever.
jman2050 said:Respected in what way? As an art form? That seems pretty unnecessary honestly.
jman2050 said:There's something wrong with this?
Mimicking Hollywood isn't exactly what I have in mind when I'm talking about good game stories. But in most games, I get the impression (and it's just that, an impression; I could be totally wrong here) that most games right now are game mechanics with outsourced CGI cutscenes tossed in here and there. Not stories that create a feedback loop with the game.KevinCow said:How do you figure? It seems like nearly every game released these days tries to have big, expensive cutscenes.
SalsaShark said:No, as a medium to tell a story, and to transmit an experience other than "im having fun".
Of course there´s something wrong with that. Do you think games are just toys for kids ?
SalsaShark said:Big, expensive cutscenes =/= videogame storytelling
John said:Mimicking Hollywood isn't exactly what I have in mind when I'm talking about good game stories. But in most games, I get the impression (and it's just that, an impression; I could be totally wrong here) that most games right now are game mechanics with outsourced CGI cutscenes tossed in here and there. Not stories that create a feedback loop with the game.
John said:Mimicking Hollywood isn't exactly what I have in mind when I'm talking about good game stories. But in most games, I get the impression (and it's just that, an impression; I could be totally wrong here) that most games right now are game mechanics with outsourced CGI cutscenes tossed in here and there. Not stories that create a feedback loop with the game.
Pimpbaa said:If developers want to stop skyrocketing development costs, they need to stop making interactive movies and start making games. So much money wasted on production values for cutscenes and expensive voice actors.
KevinCow said:It doesn't equal good video game storytelling, but when more than half a game's budget goes into telling the game's story, it says to me that they're putting more of an emphasis on the story than the gameplay.
jman2050 said:So basically what I said, as an art form.
jman2050 said:Well, not specifically "for kids", no, but they certainly are toys.
Tain said:Yeah, there is absolutely nothing wrong with games being looked at as "just games."
That's exactly what they are! And they're wonderful.
Yep. What's wrong with the system of making a game first, and fitting a story in later is that games with good stories are begun in development as stories. Every aesthetic choice, every game design choice then stems from some original pitch, and the process expands organically. That doesn't happen otherwise.jman2050 said:I must be doing a terrible job expressing my opinions because this is exactly the type of game story usage I support.
But even in that instance the story doesn't have to necessarily stand on its own. If it enhances the experience of playing the game then it has done its job.
HK-47 said:You are acting as if people are saying "just games" are bad and stupid compare to games with story as an important component when really they just coexist within the same medium.
Plus lots of games you'd probably think are story games only use it as a thin veneer to push the action along, rather than to say something using gaming's story techniques.
John said:Yep. What's wrong with the system of making a game first, and fitting a story in later is that games with good stories are begun in development as stories. Every aesthetic choice, every game design choice then stems from some original pitch, and the process expands organically. That doesn't happen otherwise.
HK-47 said:but then again you could make Heavy Rain.
HK-47 said:but then again you could make Heavy Rain.
I'm not creating some dichotomy between story-focus and story/gameplay integration; I think they're one and the same.HK-47 said:Thats why unless your story has an really good writing talent behind it, its just not as interesting as integrated story/gameplay. The two need to be developing in tandem. Otherwise you get...most stories in games.
but then again you could make Heavy Rain.
KevinCow said:It doesn't equal good video game storytelling, but when more than half a game's budget goes into telling the game's story,
I'm a firm believer the industry should be as diverse as possible. It's the safest way to do business. So, games where story and experience are crucial definitely should be made, even though I don't care for those aspects much at all personally.seady said:I am not sure if Video Games always have to be gameplay first, story/experience second. They are both equally important. It's a big market and if we all judge games purely based on gameplay alone, then Super Mario games would have won GOTY every year, while Heavy Rain, Shenmue and Metal Gear would never exist.
Of course, in a video game, you can have 100% gameplay but 0% story (Tetris), but you can't have the vice versa, or else it wouldn't even be a game(?). Even a text adventure have you manipulating over a dialogue.
Segata Sanshiro said:I'm a firm believer the industry should be as diverse as possible. It's the safest way to do business. So, games where story and experience are crucial definitely should be made, even though I don't care for those aspects much at all personally.
Segata Sanshiro said:I'm a firm believer the industry should be as diverse as possible. It's the safest way to do business. So, games where story and experience are crucial definitely should be made, even though I don't care for those aspects much at all personally.
faceless007 said:Um, what the fucking fuck? What video game in the entire history of video games are you possibly thinking of? In what universe can the exponentially rising costs of game development and death-spiral of this bloated industry gone haywire possibly be blamed on the cost of story development instead of, say, 3D engine programming or texture artists or animators or open-world level design or any of the things that generally fall under the umbrella of tech?
Gravijah said:Gamers are weird creatures. Lots of them find it hard to accept that people have different tastes.
Also not everyone plays games for immersion and agency.Eh, story and gameplay are both key aspects to the feeling of actually existing in a world.
tetrisgrammaton said:Eh, story and gameplay are both secondary to the feeling of actually existing in a world.
Gravijah said:HEA VY RA IN DEF ENSE FO RM ASS EM BLE!
Mother 3 is also very linear!Halycon said:Mother 3 had gameplay that enhanced the story.
That is all.
Probably because it was a story with a game attached and not one of those choose your own adventure books either!PataHikari said:Mother 3 is also very linear!
You say this like all developers can already make an enticing linear game that will appeal to a wide group of people.Linearity is safe and boring. Non-linearity is evolution and excitement.
Or a well presented story perhaps. I don't think you have to be overly complex to make a video game story interesting. You just have to integrate it well with your gameplay. A story can be well written on paper and completely lose it in the translation to a video game.Halycon said:I think people are confusing cutscenes with a well written story.
CecilRousso said:Linearity is safe and boring. Non-linearity is evolution and excitement.
My point is you can get there either way.SalsaShark said:what the fuck are you talking about
you achieve this through story and gameplay
Linearity is safe and boring. Non-linearity is evolution and excitement.
Dark Octave said:I'd pay good money to see you wait in line at the DMV.
Halycon said:Why do you seek revolution when you haven't even come close to evolving the original method?