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[Fury Sense]

Males join NeoGAF because males are on NeoGAF. I presume it started off as a male community because of industry demographics at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ_qXmxdgGM

edit: I think the "Tits or GTFO" explanation also applies on the gaming side; gender doesn't matter, we're all gamers.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Have you read the threads on gaming side? I think gaming side is pretty good when nothing is happening and people have good discussions. The crazies come out of the woodwork when new platforms/popular games are released.

 

[teruterubozu]

I'm not terribly interested in getting bogged down in this conversation, but I do think that this kind of flippant observation is detrimental to the larger conversation. While there is definitely some truth to it, I think simply conceding "because women don't like video games as much as men do" and calling it a day may not be the ideal attitude to espouse.

And I'm not trying to call you out specifically here. Your post just happened to be the most recent "and we're done here" post, and I'm just not keen on that sentiment.

So what's your contribution?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So what's your contribution?

To post as a representative of moderation in an attempt to curtail "first post nailed it" and "we're done here" responses.

 

[Chojin]

On one hand the ratio of women to men on this site may be skewed towards men but one thing I've really seen in a positive outlook is that this is one of the fewer video game sites or hangout spots with a fairly large population of transgendered people. Having a T friendly environment contributes to it but it makes me happy that there's a place for them here

I got too many friends who are transgendered and don't feel like they get accepted outside of the small circles we run around in, its refreshing to be in a place where for the most part its not as harsh as it could be especially with a "male dominated" demographic.

 

[Miss Riot]

Continually painting fighting game topics as 'dem tittays' chants is like describing gaf to someone and pointing to ponygaf as your first example.

fighting game topics are the worst representation you could ever hope for. but don't let me stand in the way. that's a genre I've fallen out of love with these past 2 years.

 

[Opiate]

So what's your contribution?

Following through on Steve's thoughts:

Okay, so why then do boys like video games more than girls do? This obviously isn't some ultimate law of the universe, as platforms like Facebook, iOS and DS showed.

 

[double jump]

The prevalent use of "cunt" definitely doesn't help.

I will never in a million years understand the stigma to this word.
Especially when everyone uses the word dick.
But that's off topic.

 

[LQX]

.

 

[teruterubozu]

To post as a representative of moderation in an attempt to curtail "first post nailed it" and "we're done here" responses.

Ah sorry, I'm out of the loop on identifying mods these days.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

And we're done here.

Just a little remainder : 45% of US gamers are female
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

 

[Reuenthal]

Most Internet forums seem to be predominantly male.

I assume more women than men find spending time on such forums to be a less valuable way to spend their time.

 

[Sub_Level]

don't paint me with that broad brush. a lot of females I know and am friends with don't declare it. that doesn't mean we're less passionate about games that cater to the hardcore.

No what I'm saying is that you should be able to comfortably declare that you play games, not that you don't declare it because you're casual. I'm just assuming that a lot of girls don't advertise it because the fact that they're female is predominant over what games they actually play. If you see a girl on youtube playing game X, the focus is "oh cool it's a girl who plays X!", not "is she actually playing X well". When a girl says she's a girl who plays games, she opens herself up to the stereotype that she's not even really into the hobby even if she actually genuinely is. It's a pretty dumb aspect of "gaming culture", although I suppose you might find it in comic books and filmmaking as well. Books and music seem pretty gender neutral, but I'm not into them or engage in any communities so who knows.

 

[Zoe]

Following through on Steve's thoughts:

Okay, so why then do boys like video games more than girls do? This obviously isn't some ultimate law of the universe, as platforms like Facebook, iOS and DS showed.

People don't really come here to talk about Facebook and iOS games though. For all of its millions of users and success, that Candy Crush thread sure didn't last long.

Just a little remainder : 45% of US gamers are female
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

And how many of those 45% of gamers are predominantly social/mobile gamers?

A more telling statistic that would be relevant to NeoGAF is the gender breakdown of the top 20 games listed there. Those are things that are discussed here.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There are probably more women who are actually members than those that post actively in threads, which is probably due to the less than civil atmosphere in a lot of those threads. The veil of anonymity allows certain types of people to be more vocal than they might otherwise be.

Males make up the majority of gamers, but it's not an overwhelming majority.

fighting game topics are the worst representation you could ever hope for. but don't let me stand in the way. that's a genre I've fallen out of love with these past 2 years.

When was the last time you looked in the FGC thread?

 

[Miss Riot]

Following through on Steve's thoughts:

Okay, so why then do boys like video games more than girls do? This obviously isn't some ultimate law of the universe, as platforms like Facebook, iOS and DS showed.

holdovers from previous "girls do this, guys do this" but the playfield is evening out as the genres broaden to include games in everything. there's still hardcore people like myself who have been gaming for ages but I view that as a niche itself regardless of gender. if you ever used a manual ftp command line to get Doom wads then we're kindred spirits regardless.

 

[besada]

Or more importantly, any neutral news thread of any kind about anyone who happens to be a woman.

Or the thread where we evaluated female musicians on how hot they were.

 

[MrPressStart]

It has to be because there are more guys that play games then wormen.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Really!? All of the XXXX sure is looking good again threads?

I thought we were talking about towards other gaf members.

 

[Valhelm]

It's a videogame forum.

I've been a member of Zelda Universe for five years, which is ostensibly a videogame forum, which was about 40% girls. The Zelda series probably attracts more women than the average AAA game, but not enough to make such a significant difference.

 

[Haly]

The difference between Reddit and Neogaf is that Neogaf is much smaller and clumped together. Imagine a room crammed full of male gamers with some female ones peppered here or there and it's no wonder they get drowned out. It's harder to split off into their own groups (the Arrow thread, par example) because a community requires a certain amount of activity to sustain it. Reddit can get away with female-dominated subreddits through sheer numbers, but Neogaf's format (two forums, two subforums), selective registration process and strict moderation policies means it's harder for the women of Neogaf to find enough females who share their interest in order to sustain a thread or a community by themselves. Without these enclaves serving as a gateway, it's more likely that a potential female member will look elsewhere for a friendlier more accessible environment.

 

[ChubbyHuggs]

Following through on Steve's thoughts:

Okay, so why then do boys like video games more than girls do? This obviously isn't some ultimate law of the universe, as platforms like Facebook, iOS and DS showed.

I think it has more to do with this site originally being known as a place for hardcore gamers and that can be very off putting for anybody. So saying it's a gaming forum, is semi on point, it's just to broad.

 

[Zoe]

I've been a member of Zelda Universe for five years, which is ostensibly a videogame forum, which was about 40% girls. The Zelda series probably attracts more women than the average AAA game, but not enough to make such a significant difference.

I think you're just more likely to see that at series-specific sites versus ones that are catch-all.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Okay, so why then do boys like video games more than girls do? This obviously isn't some ultimate law of the universe, as platforms like Facebook, iOS and DS showed.

Maybe it has to do with gender identifiers? A lot of games these days (CoD, GoW, fighting games, what-have-you) are primarily tailored and marketed towards males. Girls have to conform to that standard of masculinity. It goes the other way, too, with boys who like fashion and the like. I don't think it's an issue of "boys like games more than girls", but rather, they're more forthcoming with the information that they enjoy playing them because society says it's okay.

That being said, I do like the trend with strong female leads in games these days.

 

[Lasthope106]

As a girl, I think it might have to do with the stigma of being a girl who likes games, simply put. A lot of my female gamer friends are shy about the fact that they'd rather play a game than go out. Many are shy about it and feel that it ostracizes them; I sometimes feel this too. I think that there's a certain expectation when saying "I'm a girl gamer!" so a lot feel pressured to fit into that mold.

My youngest sister who is college age games because she grew up in a house with two brothers that were into videogames since before we even knew how to write. She has played lots of obscure titles and a lot of the big ones like Halo, and her main addiction right now is GTAV.

Every once in a while I ask her what do her peers think about her being more into games and knowing more than a lot of the guys she hangs out with and who claim themselves "gamers" (COD Bros mainly). She tells me the guys think it's awesome and the her female friends don't have much to say. However, even though she knows about games she is not really into gaming culture, and I don't see her ever signing up for a GAF account.

GAF is the hardcore of the hardcore. We are borderline evangelists.

 

[Chojin]

45% of US gamers are female
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

With that statistic it then does raise the question again, why are there fewer females on NeoGAF? Anectdotally I know many female gamers and play games with a lot of women but the only women I know on gaf in real life is two. Then again I only know and met a few people in real life who are also on neogaf but the majority of them are men. Most my gamer friends don't even know what NeoGAF is save for one who's been waiting to get his registration approved for more than a year.

I really don't think that this board, at least when compared to other video game message boards to be that hostile towards women. It's a lot more women friendly than when the emulation scene was huge back in the 90s like say on Neodemiforce, the Donut or Zophar's Domain, but I see roughly the same if not more women on here than I did back in those days.

 

[davepoobond]

Most of the girls here are pretending they are dudes or are dudes pretending they are girls


So everyone is a dude

 

[Chojin]

Most of the girls here are pretending they are dudes or are dudes pretending they are girls


So everyone is a dude

You're a dude

 

[AlimNassor]

no I'm not asking that this place turn into a church where sexuality is ignored and pretends it doesnt exist. I shouldn't have even got into it, but reasons are reasons and sometimes you just learn over the years to keep your mouth shut instead of open a can of worms because it's not worth it.

but if your big contribution to a new character reveal in a fighting game is "dem tittays" you shouldn't be surprised if I don't necessarily want to talk

I still don't get it. I come from a forum with lots of female users, an overwhelming number, and you would be surprised how many make threads or posts about how "sexy' a video game anime character is. Women are just as horny as men, sometimes much, much more. Why would you shy away from men talking about someone being attractive?

You say you don't gnat to 'shun sex", but, talk about sex makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

[Karkador]

You're looking at part 2 of this phenomenon, part 1 consists of why there's a majority of men there to do that in the first place. Likewise, what does exclusion even look like? Isn't the majority male part inherently part of it?

I don't think there needs to be a majority of men (or more specifically, a majority of male "hardcore gamers") for the conversation to be had in a way that excludes women. The largest are not always the loudest, etc.

Exclusion, in one of its forms, looks like this post:

Females are usually more casual. Nintendo platformers, phone apps, AAA hand holding blockbusters like Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, Call of Duty, and Halo. The works.

It's continuing to relegate people to some subclass of "casual gamer" that is assumed to be unable to or uninterested in talking about videogames, or continuing to move the goal post on what a "real game" is.

 

[JohnsonUT]

With that statistic it then does raise the question again, why are there fewer females on NeoGAF?

You first have to break down the stat. What percentage of women who play games play their games on consoles/steam/orgin vs. mobile vs. facebook? If most of the women players fall in the latter two categories, it makes sense that they would not come to gaf. Gaf does not really focus on those two categories.

Also it comes down to how interested female gamers are. If the average female gamer rates gaming as less important than other hobbies (e.g. movies, reading, tv) as compared to male gamers, then the female gamers would be less likely to go on an online forum.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Girls don't even exist.

 

[Zeliard]

I thought we were talking about towards other gaf members.

A thread not being targeted at a specific female GAF member doesn't mean she isn't going to feel objectified and put off by the type of conversation that goes on in there.

 

[Artemisia]

Well. Have you read any of the threads about women on gaf?

 

[Horse Detective]

We probably have more women than any other gaming forum.

 

[Miss Riot]

I still don't get it. I come from a forum with lots of female users, an overwhelming number, and you would be surprised how many make threads or posts about how "sexy' a video game anime character is. Women are just as horny as men, sometimes much, much more. Why would you shy away from men talking about someone being attractive?

You say you don't gnat to 'shun sex", but, talk about sex makes you feel uncomfortable.

I didn't say it makes me uncomfortable, its just a metric for me to judge whether or not these people are worth getting into a conversation with. it's tough sometimes. also thanks for reminding me I'm just as horny as men.

 

[Valhelm]

My guess is that women are less inclined to make accounts, or at least less inclined to continue posting, because of the overwhelmingly male demographics.

It's kind of like a positive feedback loop, and although NeoGaf is a lot more progressive than other parts of the internet, some threads reek of misogyny.

 

[Chojin]

You first have to break down the stat. What percentage of women who play games play their games on consoles/steam/orgin vs. mobile vs. facebook? If most of the women players fall in the latter two categories, it makes sense that they would not come to gaf. Gaf does not really focus on those two categories.

I suppose. My wife plays nothing but Marketplacewhatevermymarket on Facebook and candycrush and she wouldn't be remotely intersted in people talking about video games. She doesn't really participates in forums in the first place.

Then again I play kongregate daily but thats not usually what I talk about in here. Mostly I talk about the Philippines and my wife ;p

My best guess? Possibly due to how the two sexes usually express themselves. There may be a way in how forums are that tend to attract males in the way we express ourselves and for females there may be a different outlet.

I'd be interested to see the breakdown between male and female Livejournal (do people still use that?) users or instagram.

Again from another perspective, my wife expresses herself via Facebook. She used to use IRC back in college but has no interest in real time communication. She'd prefer to skype with people one on one rather than be in a "crowd". Again its a poor sample size but it helps put some perspective for me. Granted its going to be different for everyone else, male or female, but I'm genuinely curious if that would have anything to do with the way the numbers fall.

 

[Sub_Level]

With that statistic it then does raise the question again, why are there fewer females on NeoGAF?

45% of gamers = female does not equate to 45% of all games being played by females.

45% of the audience for System Shock 2 was probably not female. 45% of the audience for Ninja Gaiden Black was probably not female. These are examples of hardcore games, and as an enthusiast message board, those are the games we gravitate towards (although obviously not the only ones discussed here)

It's continuing to relegate people to some subclass of "casual gamer" that is assumed to be unable to or uninterested in talking about videogames, or continuing to move the goal post on what a "real game" is.

It's not a vertical hierarchy, it's a horizontal denomination. Categorization. Unless you're on 4chan in which case yes it is a vertical ranking of worth not just as a gamer but as a human being lol

 

[pizza dog]

Because the gamer community broadly and GAF as major exemplar are hostile toward women.

 

[Pau]

I still don't get it. I come from a forum with lots of female users, an overwhelming number, and you would be surprised how many make threads or posts about how "sexy' a video game anime character is. Women are just as horny as men, sometimes much, much more. Why would you shy away from men talking about someone being attractive?

You say you don't gnat to 'shun sex", but, talk about sex makes you feel uncomfortable.

It's the also the incredibly negative and harsh comments people make. I honestly feel more alienated by the comments about how a girl doesn't have an ass so she's not a real woman but actually a twelve year old boy. Just really judgmental stuff. It gets old. Doesn't mean I'm a prude.

 

[nullset2]

vidyagaems

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I don't see it to users here, but it's still a reminder of how people feel about females and it keeps me quiet more often than not. I recently got approved here after lurking and I found there's not much for me to say without opening myself up to attack. but hey I'm not like

HI I'M MISS RIOT because I GRRRRR a lot when I GET FRAGGED on DOOM! YEAH THAT'S RIGHT! I'M A GIRL! What do you think about THAT?

I'm curious, where and how were you attacked on NeoGAF? And was the culprit disciplined? My image of this forum is one where gender based jerkyness is pretty minimal, so I'm curious as to what happened.

 

[Haly]

Just a little remainder : 45% of US gamers are female
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

Neogaf is actively hostile against "non-games", even from some of its female members, which is what I imagine the majority of these "45%" of gamers play. Just look at this pie chart:

Do you think this accurately describes the gaming landscape as seen through Neogaf's eyes?

 

[JohnsonUT]

I suppose. My wife plays nothing but Marketplacewhatevermymarket on Facebook and candycrush and she wouldn't be remotely intersted in people talking about video games. She doesn't really participates in forums in the first place.

Then again I play kongregate daily but thats not usually what I talk about in here. Mostly I talk about the Philippines and my wife ;p

That is another point. What is the male/female breakdown on any forum? Are females less interested in posting in general? Females are more susceptible to online sexism. Does that deter from anonymous boards and lead to wider use of facebook and such?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I understand that. There's several layers to the answer. OP compared GAF to various other online communities and wondered what was different, so the obvious first answer layer would be that it's a videogame community, which - for obvious reasons - should make the comparison to general online communities moot.

Obviously we can then start to go deeper. We can bring up the specifics of the videogame communities, we can discuss the social-dynamic aspects of these communities or general differences between the genders. We could also wonder whether there are specifics that only apply to NeoGAF etc.

It wasn't my intention to kill the discussion or mock the OP, but it's simply a starting point.

I wasn't trying to state that a short response with some accuracy was a bad reply. However -- as is often the case with accurate first/early responses -- it becomes problematic when that is followed up with a barrage of "and we're done here" and "first post nails it," etc. So, I wasn't trying to say "Damn you ElTopo! You ruined the thread." But I am stating that we can either concede that we are indeed done here and close the thread, or we can assume that there's more to delve into here than what one sentence can provide.

Either way, those types of responses (specifically "we're done here") are becoming a nuisance to conversations.

 

[RaikuHebi]

Why are celebrity gossip sites predominantly female?

 

[Not Spaceghost]

A thread not being targeted at a specific female GAF member doesn't mean she isn't going to feel objectified and put off by the type of conversation that goes on in there.

Alright yeah that's true, I was thinking more along the lines of directly treating a female member like that because that seems like a one way ticket to getting banned. I guess it never really occurred to me how many different ways there are to evoke an indirect effect that's going to cause similar feelings of objectification...if that makes sense?

Boy that was worded sloppily.

 

[Zoe]

Exclusion, in one of its forms, looks like this post:



It's continuing to relegate people to some subclass of "casual gamer" that is assumed to be unable to or uninterested in talking about videogames, or continuing to move the goal post on what a "real game" is.

What is there really to discuss about "casual" games? How do I beat level 348 on Candy Crush? There are better places for that kind of thing.

 

[TheRedMan]

I don't think there needs to be a majority of men (or more specifically, a majority of male "hardcore gamers") for the conversation to be had in a way that excludes women. The largest are not always the loudest, etc.

Exclusion, in one of its forms, looks like this post:



It's continuing to relegate people to some subclass of "casual gamer" that is assumed to be unable to or uninterested in talking about videogames, or continuing to move the goal post on what a "real game" is.

That's not exclusion, it's an honest observation he was making in context of answering the question OP asked.