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[Haly]

*Its

Can we be grammar elitists too? That would be fun.

We already are, thanks.

 

[y2dvd]

I bet there's a lot of female lurkers who don't want to post in fear of gaining unwanted attention from male posters gawking at them.

 

[Zoe]

If your aim is to get the largest user base as possible, yes, fine, but that's anti-thetical to the modus operandi NeoGAF's adopted since its inception.

It's very identity is that of an elite enclave. If Evilore opens the flood gates, we become another IGN, or GameFAQs.

And the effect on the servers... /shudder

 

[Mesoian]

4chan's /v/ has a largest percentage of female posters.

Let that sink for a second.

You're probably right. And that being said, it's probably still well under 10%.

 

[Haly]

And the effect on the servers... /shudder

All that new casual money might be able to give us some new servers.

Evilore should put in a microtransaction system with tags at $5 per word and signatures at $10 per 50m3 of pixels.

 

[daycru]

video
game
message
board

 

[pizza dog]

In this thread, men bloviating on all kind of anecdotal theories instead of women sharing their experiences.

GAF entrenches on preconceived notions, rarely listens.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Imagine the whole population of everyone who has ever played any kind of game. You're probably approaching 50/50 gender split.

Now limit that group to the people who mainly play the kinds of games that are considered "core" or "hardcore" or whatever term we use to distinguish it from some low-investment facebook/iOS game. The gender split will tip towards majority male.

Now further reduce that group to the people who care so much about games that they want to read about them and talk about them daily, hear all the industry news as soon as it's available, and so on. Basically, NeoGAF. The gender split will now be heavily favoring males.

I think this is because men are more likely than women to be persistently and deeply interested in video games. I think this is undeniably true at this point in time, though the causes (nature/nurture) are very much up for debate.

And just so people don't misinterpret me as claiming that personal interest is the only important factor, I also believe that social factors such as whether video game message boards are welcoming environments (or not) also matter.

 

[Haly]

In this thread, men bloviating on all kind of anecdotal theories instead of women sharing their experiences.

GAF entrenched on preconceived notions, rarely listens.

Women are sharing their experiences, please read.

It's not like there's a FEMALEGAF ASSEMBLE battlecry that allows the female segment of the population to appear en masse in whatever thread requires their attention. It's the middle of the day in the US, you take what you can get.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I'm a guy and I get tired of reading about how some random gaffer would or wouldn't have sex with a woman anytime a pic gets posted. Like it's somehow noteworthy or interesting.

 

[Pau]

It's different, yes. I didn't say or imply that it was better.



Wasn't intended in any sort of pejorative manner.

But my point is that women interact just as much on the internet so saying they don't doesn't make sense.

If I was a woman, I'd recognize a lot of discussion here as the Geek's Maxim talk it is outside of the occasional political or economic thread.

Edit: And as Miss Riot said, try finding topics that don't generally devolve into infantasiced male banter.

I don't get what you mean.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Oh boy, if this thread somehow makes GAF more friendly towards casual games, it might be my chance to shine with piles of secret insider information!


Or not.

 

[Valhelm]

I've noticed that one of the biggest differences between who men and women play games is that men see games as a hobby, while women see games as a diversion. A girl who likes Candy Crush will probably play it for about twenty minutes a day, while a guy who likes Battlefied 3 might play it for two hours a day.

But this trend is actually much older than videogames. Most traditionally male hobbies (fishing, having a train set, building model battlefields) require large amounts of time and effort, and are usually longer-term than traditionally female hobbies, like embroidery.

 

[andycapps]

video
game
message
board

This type of mindset is the same type that keeps women gamers away from here, or keeps them here but afraid to post. We act like this is a male hobby, and it's cool if they're into it, but they're probably not as hardcore about it as we are. And they're probably just playing games because their boyfriend is into them and they want to fit in.

 

[Karkador]

If your aim is to get the largest user base as possible, yes, fine, but that's anti-thetical to the modus operandi NeoGAF's adopted since its inception.

The modus operandi of NeoGAF is to get banner ad dollars.

 

[Sub_Level]

I've noticed that one of the biggest differences between who men and women play games is that men see games as a hobby, while women see games as a diversion. A girl who likes Candy Crush will probably play it for about twenty minutes a day, while a guy who likes Battlefied 3 might play it for two hours a day.

But this trend is actually much older than videogames. Most traditionally male hobbies (fishing, having a train set, building model battlefields) require large amounts of time and effort, and are usually longer-term than traditionally female hobbies, like embroidery.

I dunno. I know girls who read like some people smoke cigs. TV shows too.

 

[Valhelm]

I'm a guy and I get tired of reading about how some random gaffer would or wouldn't have sex with a woman anytime a pic gets posted. Like it's somehow noteworthy or interesting.

Posts like that are some of the worst on NeoGaf. People don't say "Would." as much as they used to, but it's still really pervasive.

A couple months ago there was a cool thread about the mayor of Reykjavik, and all the comments were about how people wanted to fuck his daughter.

 

[The Librarian]

NeoGAF is predominantly male because NeoGAF is beneath women.

The women on here are gracing you with our presence. You're welcome.

 

[Mesoian]

Imagine the whole population of everyone who has ever played any kind of game. You're probably approaching 50/50 gender split.

Now limit that group to the people who mainly play the kinds of games that are considered "core" or "hardcore" or whatever term we use to distinguish it from some low-investment facebook/iOS game. The gender split will tip towards majority male.

Now further reduce that group to the people who care so much about games that they want to read about them and talk about them daily, hear all the industry news as soon as it's available, and so on. Basically, NeoGAF. The gender split will now be heavily favoring males.

I think this is because men are more likely than women to be persistently and deeply interested in video games than women. I think this is undeniably true, though the causes (nature/nurture) are very much up for debate.

This is a pretty good breakdown.

Even if you consider the ESA's chart about people who play any sort of digital game on any available platform, when you break down the enthusiast markets for the industry including those games, women just don't seem to have the same drive to make video games part of who and what they are. If all you have is a passing interest in tetris or mario 1 or pull out the wii every once in a while to play some wii sports and maybe...JUST MAYBE...on a blue moon, play a game of mario party, you probably don't care enough about video games to extol your opinions about games, the industry and the future of all things on the internet.

And a lot of guys do.

NeoGAF is predominantly male because NeoGAF is beneath women.

The women on here are gracing you with our presence. You're welcome.

:-/

 

[Zoe]

This.

In all my years on the internet, I don't think I've ever been part of a forum that's 1:1 male/female. I don't think I've ever been a part of one that had even a 25% female population.

There definitely tends to be a divide based on the interests. Of all the forums/mailing lists/newsgroups I've participated in over the years, women tend to make up the majority of celebrity or creative-focused communities. Though I noticed a huge change in demographics

Spoiler

for the detriment

in music communities after ONTD became a thing.

 

[Miss Riot]

if you're saying "girls probably would rather do this" I don't think you should really speak for us. I play a _lot_ of games. I discuss a _lot_ of games. everyone gets a different experience out of communities and a different personal experience. what drove me to neogaf was tumblr with wrestling-gaf. the rest kind of fell into place.

 

[SHIT]

I'm a transgender mtf person, does that count?

 

[pizza dog]

Women are sharing their experiences, please read.

It's not like there's a FEMALEGAF ASSEMBLE battlecry that allows the female segment of the population to appear en masse in whatever thread requires their attention. It's the middle of the day in the US, you take what you can get.

Dat signal to noise though. Take any Sarkeesian thread or any "Kotaku: game X is sexist" thread and there's 17 pages of people screaming about "white knights" or "radical feminism" or some bullshit.

 

[afternoon delight]

I don't get what you mean.

I'd get bored as FUCK reading for the zillionth time how radical femmens are attacking our industry and that it clearly isn't sexualized at all, how to date and fingerbang Q&A threads, which is the hottest girl on a current sitcom, and the generally weird preening that female users receive because they're females aka Ooooooo wunder wens Dev gonna shooooow????

 

[Haly]

But this trend is actually much older than videogames. Most traditionally male hobbies (fishing, having a train set, building model battlefields) require large amounts of time and effort, and are usually longer-term than traditionally female hobbies, like embroidery.

I think you're kind of ignoring the centuries of social conditioning where we convinced women their only worth was to pop heirs out of their vaginas like in Crusader Kings. You're only looking at the surface differences without considering the far deeper chain of causality that led to where we are today.

The modus operandi of NeoGAF is to get banner ad dollars.

Evilore can sell NeoGAF for millions. He doesn't, that alone should indicate what kind of direction NeoGAF will have in the near or far future.

 

[Warren Ellis]

because neogaf is too creepy for women ?

 

[Zoe]

I've noticed that one of the biggest differences between who men and women play games is that men see games as a hobby, while women see games as a diversion. A girl who likes Candy Crush will probably play it for about twenty minutes a day, while a guy who likes Battlefied 3 might play it for two hours a day.

But this trend is actually much older than videogames. Most traditionally male hobbies (fishing, having a train set, building model battlefields) require large amounts of time and effort, and are usually longer-term than traditionally female hobbies, like embroidery.

Casuals actually spend almost as much time gaming, but it's spread out across the day rather than focused sessions.

 

[Valhelm]

I'm a transgender mtf person, does that count?

Of course!! One thing I am quite proud about is how there is a thriving trans community on NeoGaf. I really with other online communities (read: Reddit) would be as inclusive.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

This type of mindset is the same type that keeps women gamers away from here, or keeps them here but afraid to post. We act like this is a male hobby, and it's cool if they're into it, but they're probably not as hardcore about it as we are. And they're probably just playing games because their boyfriend is into them and they want to fit in.

You can separate the historical fact that it's a predominantly male hobby from any prescriptive judgments about what women should or should not be interested in. I certainly believe that the women here are just as interested in gaming as the men. I also believe in the obvious fact that there are fewer of them.

 

[Reversed]

The embodiment that is Gafman sort of answers this question.

Though we all know this is a more complex question.

 

[Valhelm]

I think you're kind of ignoring the centuries of social conditioning where we convinced women their only worth was to pop heirs out of their vaginas like in Crusader Kings. You're only looking at the surface differences without considering the far deeper chain of causality that led to where we are today.

I considered mentioning the fact that women generally had less time on their hands due to having to raise children, but I wasn't sure if that was relevant.

It's interesting how most "male hobbies" are related to formerly full-time male professions. Hunting. Fishing. Pretending to be a soldier.

 

[Mesoian]

if you're saying "girls probably would rather do this" I don't think you should really speak for us. I play a _lot_ of games. I discuss a _lot_ of games. everyone gets a different experience out of communities and a different personal experience. what drove me to neogaf was tumblr with wrestling-gaf. the rest kind of fell into place.

And that's cool. But I think the point that most of the guys giving the easy answer are trying to make is, "it's cool that you do this, welcome, be here and be merry. But how many other girls do you know would come here because it's the 'best' source for video game news and discussion that you can get?"

I'm a transgender mtf person, does that count?

I mean...sure, why wouldn't it?

 

[daycru]

This type of mindset is the same type that keeps women gamers away from here, or keeps them here but afraid to post. We act like this is a male hobby, and it's cool if they're into it, but they're probably not as hardcore about it as we are. And they're probably just playing games because their boyfriend is into them and they want to fit in.

There were 40K+ in the stadium for the Cincinnati Reds season finale, likely close to a 50/50 split in gender. There are two women who post on my Reds board. Lots of women play games, statistically zero give much of a fuck about discussing the latest DRM debacle on the Internet.

 

[Miss Riot]

And that's cool. But I think the point that most of the guys giving the easy answer are trying to make is, "it's cool that you do this, welcome, be here and be merry. But how many other girls do you know would come here because it's the 'best' source for video game news and discussion that you can get?"



I mean...sure, why wouldn't it?

is it the best though? or just busiest?

 

[Legendary_Red]

You seriously can't figure this out for yourself?

Should have been first post.

 

[imBask]

Of course!! One thing I am quite proud about is how there is a thriving trans community on NeoGaf. I really with other online communities (read: Reddit) would be as inclusive.

most gaming/internet/technology community accept trans and don't make a big deal about it, I guess we're all desensitized in a good way

 

[Silky]

NeoGAF is predominantly male because NeoGAF is beneath women.

The women on here are gracing you with our presence. You're welcome.

...

Anyway, someone already explained it: NEOGAF's a gaming forum, therefore it will have a lot of guys.

I'm a transgender mtf person, does that count?

I would hope so.

most gaming/internet/technology community accept trans and don't make a big deal about it, I guess we're all desensitized in a good way

Rethink this.

 

[Pau]

I'd get bored as FUCK reading for the zillionth time how radical femmens are attacking our industry and that it clearly isn't sexualized at all, how to date and fingerbang Q&A threads, which is the hottest girl on a current sitcom, and the generally weird preening that female users receive because they're females aka Ooooooo wunder wens Dev gonna shooooow????

It gets tiring yes but I like the rest of the community to stick around. Also I've never received this weird preening you're talking about.

Dat signal to noise though. Take any Sarkeesian thread or any "Kotaku: game X is sexist" thread and there's 17 pages of people screaming about "white knights" or "radical feminism" or some bullshit.

The best is when people accuse female members of being white knights.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Have you read the men's/women's rights threads? Why would women feel welcome here?

 

[meijiko]

4chan's /v/ has a larger percentage of female posters.

Let that sink for a second.

I'm having a hard time picturing a method used to obtain such a percentage that wouldn't be trolled to death.

I actually participate more on GAF than my husband does, so there's my anecdotal evidence. Granted I tend to stay out of a lot of specific video game discussion, though that's mostly because there's often little discussion and more a barrage of opinions. I joined GAF in the first place to participate in Off Topic, though that's since evolved to adding another voice to the feminism front on Gaming side.

 

[Haly]

most gaming/internet/technology community accept trans and don't make a big deal about it, I guess we're all desensitized in a good way

 

[Miss Riot]

It gets tiring yes but I like the rest of the community to stick around. Also I've never received this weird preening you're talking about.

the key is to not go to the post your picture thread. life's better without dick satellites.

 

[Mesoian]

is it the best though? or just busiest?

Well that's why it was in quotes. But my point stands.

most gaming/internet/technology community accept trans and don't make a big deal about it, I guess we're all desensitized in a good way

Heh. Oh...no. No they don't.

 

[Transhuman]

Does anyone actually believe there are other game forums with a closer male-to-female gender distribution than Neogaf? Lead me to this promised land, Moses.

 

[Miss Riot]

I like and lurked gaf because there was always someone saying something. no waiting for responses on anything. it fits my busy life. got ten minutes? you get responses. that's what I like most.

 

[Pau]

the key is to not go to the post your picture thread. life's better without dick satellites.

I post in there all the time and almost always have a picture of myself as my avatar. No dick satellites revolving around me.

 

[Deified Data]

"Why is GAF predominantly male" seems like a given. The better question is why hardcore gamers are predominantly male.

 

[Valhelm]

most gaming/internet/technology community accept trans and don't make a big deal about it, I guess we're all desensitized in a good way

Yeah, no.

On Reddit, the largest trans-related communities are places where straight cismen gather to masturbate to "shemales".

 

[imBask]

.

I don't see much trans bashing on the internet compared to racism or misogyny

EDIT : okay then nevermind, I'M okay with them I guess. You rednecks

 

[Mesoian]

Does anyone actually believe there are other game forums with a closer male-to-female gender distribution than Neogaf? Lead me to this promised land, Moses.

Like someone said earlier, /v/ probably is the highest rate of female participants that you can find right now. But it's all anonymous so we'll never get any hard numbers.

But still...even if that's true...4chan.