sorry I meant potential attack. I have not been attacked in my <24hours of being approved
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Why is NeoGaf so predominantly male?
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sorry I meant potential attack. I have not been attacked in my <24hours of being approved
Neogaf is actively hostile against "non-games", even from some of its female members, which is what I imagine the majority of these "45%" of gamers play. Just look at this pie chart:
Do you think this accurately describes the gaming landscape as seen through Neogaf's eyes?
This just shows that Neogaf's ideas of what gaming is, and what a gamer is, are horribly backwards and outdated.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Neogaf is actively hostile against "non-games", even from some of its female members, which is what I imagine the majority of these "45%" of gamers play. Just look at this pie chart:
Do you think this accurately describes the gaming landscape as seen through Neogaf's eyes?
Wow. That chart would be even more stark if they divided up the action/sports/FPS/etc genres that are all presumable part of the 26%.
Agreed.
I've been on video game forums that were about equal as far as gender goes, maybe even skewing towards more women. Stuff like fan fiction communities and tumblr also have a majority presence of women.
I don't know but GAF loves its celebrity gossip.
Eh... that would also presuppose that people who do play other games aside from Ninja Gaiden Black and System Shock to would ever not want to express themselves on Neogaf. What games are people supposed to play to be able to be interested in talking about stuff in the industry? Zelda has a large population of female fans, don't we have Zelda threads?
Wouldn't other Popcap games like Plants Vs Zombies and Peggle be considered "casual" gaming? Don't we have threads on those?
You're a dude
I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude. We're all dudes, hey.
What better places are there than a forum devoted to video gaming? Casual games aren't any less "video gamey" than racing games, sports games, first-person shooters, or action adventure titles.
Madden is just about as casual as a Facebook game, but sports game threads often rack up dozens of pages here.
There are a number of issues with the way that study presents gender- "who purchases" is misleading as children cannot purchase their own games, and it doesn't break the gender down by platform, lumping iOS/Facebook in with traditional console gaming.
Given that 45% number, it would seem likely that the iOS/Facebook games would actually be majority female. (And consoles more heavily skewed male.) Consoles require you to shell out $150-500+ and pay $20-60 per game, and thus have restricted access. GAF is populated primarily by people on that side of the equation. It's a forum for invested console/PC gamers primarily, and those people are going to skew male, based on demographics.
And this isn't a problem. Males and females, on a macro-level, often have different preferences in entertainment and activities. The important thing is not trying to "equalize" just for the sake of making people feels better. It's to create a situation where anyone, male of female, can enjoy the type of gaming they like without backlash.
Even without clicking on that link, I can tell it takes into its study the entire domain of computer-based gaming - including facebook flash and mobile games. Neogaf is more focused on high-end console and PC gaming, where females don't seem to participate in as many numbers as they do with flash and cellular gaming alone.
Hardly, Neogaf's biggest appeal is that it's "fighting the good fight" and keeping "hard core gaming" alive. It's even in the description!
Which might as well read:
But that comes with its share of pitfalls, which is that Neogaf is, more than many other boards, mired in the "boy's club" mentality of the 90s.
Zoe
Member
The barrier of entry to GAF is too high. You have to be interested in more than one specific thing to put forth the effort in waiting around and getting to know the community before you can participate.
You want to talk about Zelda? There's a forum that will let you do that as soon as you sign up. You want to know strategy? There are places where you don't even have to register.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Because it's a video game forum, and fosters certain attitudes that repel the opposite sex.
And because women don't use forums as much as men do.
And because women don't use forums as much as men do.
entremet
Member
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Not sure I understand. Zelda is plenty hardcore (I hate using this word but it's the terminology of our time so meh), and so is Mario and the like.
Usually when you ask a nongamer what they play Zelda isn't too far off from answers like Pong and Pac-Man but as a series it has a rich history, plenty of interesting installments, and legitimately enough artistic and game design merit to warrant plenty of hardcore discussion. And that's not my judgement, that's the judgement of the tons of passionate fans the series has.
Pretty sure women are on the internet just as much as men are.
A lot of casual games, as in stuff like Candy Crush, Angry Birds, Hundreds, tower defense, and the latest slew of F2P stuff, still have to be designed as games, and they do have merits. I think there's as much to say about these types of games as there is to say about many hardcore games. The poster I was responding to even started to define a "AAA Casual" category with stuff like Halo and Assassin's Creed, which have huge megathreads on GAF.
With that said, it's not like most discussions on GAF about hardcore games are all that intelligent or deep to begin with.
The Living Tribunal
Member
Adding to this:
There's a pyramid-scheme like effect regarding the userbase where each member draws in more potential members from their circle of friends, and when most of the members are male and the topics are male oriented, it's easy to see why female gamers have less cause to wade through the registration process.
Keeping hard core gaming alive has nothing to do with rejecting newer forms of entertainment.
afternoon delight
Member
That, and we are not the pinterest of gaming. And never will be.
My gf thinks GAF is funny, but that's about it. What woman would actively want to participate in discussions with mostly teenaged and young adult men? Especially the group here?
I don't think you understand how counter-counter-culture works.
Okay, sarcasm aside, yes, there's no reason why hardcore gamers can't coexist alongside casual ones. But the problem is there is no impetus to do so. On the contrary, gamers find camaraderie in tribalism and there's no tribe in gaming as enthusiastic as the "hardcore gamer" tribe.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Ah. Well, I wouldn't worry about it. I predict that as you offer your opinion on your preferred games and genres, you'll be just as lost in the shuffle as anyone else
No, it just shows that the average GAFer enjoys different kind of games than the majority of women (if we take that pie chart only ~40% overlaps with the games discussed on GAF), ergo it is not strange that there are a lot less females than males on GAF.
Just because there are more types of games, doesn't mean we have to like those types of games or should have worthwhile discussions about them.
terrisus
Member
Yeah, she's online too, but she does stuff other than message boards.
If the question being asked is "Why aren't there as many women on this message board?," when there are both women gamers and women online, I don't see what's wrong with suggesting that the process of interacting through message boards isn't as appealing to them as a possible reason for that.
This is why gaming is stigmatised as a "loser" hobby, because you're implying that "going out and doing stuff" is objectively a better way of living than enjoying video games at home
I would hazard to guess that if 50% of the gaming population is female, and 50% of the games played are casual games, there is clearly no need to discuss them. When you are bored or frustrated you just stop playing Candy Crush, Farmville or whatever single player Nintendo hand-held you are currently into. At no point is the game legitimately "challenging" (or catass) enough to require a "solution" board ala gamefaqs or a discussion in a larger sense in terms of mechanics, plot (lol), etc. I am not attempting to deride, devalue or judge these discrepancies in any way, I just feel they are always glossed over in a rush to make the point that "girls play too lol!"
So if you were to assume that the overlap was rather high between the females and the casual/single player titles, then I feel that would be the most simple explanation. I always see that statistic thrown out and it just seems that just as young males love the mechanics and environments of crass multiplayer shooters, women would deviate elsewhere.
Also everything else that has already been said about attempting to penetrate obscure insular environments with their own made up lingo and memetic propagation.
So if you were to assume that the overlap was rather high between the females and the casual/single player titles, then I feel that would be the most simple explanation. I always see that statistic thrown out and it just seems that just as young males love the mechanics and environments of crass multiplayer shooters, women would deviate elsewhere.
Also everything else that has already been said about attempting to penetrate obscure insular environments with their own made up lingo and memetic propagation.
Maybe it's time for NeoGAF's acceptance policies and mission statement to adjust and grow up a bit.
It's funny how you think this wasn't an attempt at deriding someone
Ah. Well, I wouldn't worry about it. I predict that as you offer your opinion on your preferred games and genres, you'll be just as lost in the shuffle as anyone else
I love my wiiU, I know full well what kind of attacks I'll get.
This.
In all my years on the internet, I don't think I've ever been part of a forum that's 1:1 male/female. I don't think I've ever been a part of one that had even a 25% female population.
People here talk about what interests them. I am not seeing the problem if that means they don't talk about some kinds of games that a lot of people play, but those people still don't care to join this forum and talk about them.
terrisus
Member
When did I imply it was better in any way?
And, why would it be consider a "loser hobby" when she plays games as well?
Not sure how any of that came as a logical follow-through from my post.
I don't know, the women posting in this very thread?
Well that was in response to you saying she goes out to interact with people.
Manabanana
Member
Are you serious? Nearly every thread in OT is dominated by it. Go to any news thread with a video and someone will inevitably say something like, "I would fuck the shit out of that news caster tho." I'm a male and that bullshit is exhausting. I really wish we were less tolerant of it as a community.
If your aim is to get the largest user base as possible, yes, fine, but that's anti-thetical to the modus operandi NeoGAF's adopted since its inception.
Its very identity is that of an elite enclave. If Evilore opens the flood gates, we become another IGN, or GameFAQs.
terrisus
Member
It's different, yes. I didn't say or imply that it was better.
Wasn't intended in any sort of pejorative manner.
afternoon delight
Member
If I was a woman, I'd recognize a lot of discussion here as the Geek's Maxim talk it is outside of the occasional political or economic thread.
Edit: And as Miss Riot said, try finding topics that don't generally devolve into infantasized male banter.
Zoe
Member
That's awfully defeatist. The more people that post positively about it, the better the atmosphere will become.
Not to mention many threads tend to attract the same communities even if they're not "official" threads.
Really? I've been on plenty that were predominately female or 1:1 as far as active members went.
terrisus
Member
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
In the context of the effect they have on the industry, of course they should be discussed. But I just don't see myself participating in a thread about my experiences playing Temple Run. Also, posters like me who don't want to discuss those games =/= fostering an exclusionary community. I don't think anyone would be offended if they saw a new Temple Run thread and demand that it would be closed. If someone is enthused about it and wants to make one, go for it.
There is a certain wierd hysterical tone oozing from this thread and the OP's posts about both women having other interests and other kinds of games not being talked about much here.
The reality is that there is a problem of harassment against women online though not that much in this forum and also women are less interested in such topics.
Which lack of interest is not necessarilly bad or good. There is no need to worry about more women getting into the kind of gaming we like or want discuss it or if they don't and have some other valuable way to spend their time. It is not as if spending your time on neogaf is objectively the best way to spend your time and everyone who is not doing so is missing a great experience. Essentially the environment should be welcoming but unequal interest is not an issue of worry.
The reality is that there is a problem of harassment against women online though not that much in this forum and also women are less interested in such topics.
Which lack of interest is not necessarilly bad or good. There is no need to worry about more women getting into the kind of gaming we like or want discuss it or if they don't and have some other valuable way to spend their time. It is not as if spending your time on neogaf is objectively the best way to spend your time and everyone who is not doing so is missing a great experience. Essentially the environment should be welcoming but unequal interest is not an issue of worry.
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