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Why is Retro working on Donkey Kong such a disappointment?
- Thread starter Solid SOAP
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My problem is the fact Nintendo has so many games in the platformer genre. I was really hoping that Retro was working on something else to give Nintendo some variety in software.
The thing I'm glad to hear is that Retro said they feel they haven't finished the job with DK, otherwise I would have been extremely disappointed.
The thing I'm glad to hear is that Retro said they feel they haven't finished the job with DK, otherwise I would have been extremely disappointed.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The Wii U just seems too safe. There's a feeling of "More of the Same, in HD" with the Wii U just receiving continuation of a select few of the more established Nintendo franchises that we've seen very recently. All of the more well produced games are just iterations (Mario, Mario Kart, Wii Party, Donkey Kong, Pikmin, Zelda, Smash) and the "Retro Big Project" was hope that there would be something fresh and exciting for the console, like the Project Sora/Kid Icarus scenario.
The only two exceptions are Bayonetta 2 and X, although they are still sequels of franchises we've seen recently, and the only timeline we have is a very vague "2014", meaning it may be late 2014 or even 2015. Not promising.
I guess Nintendo's recent efforts with fresh titles bombing has made them a little more reticent on going down that path again.... but it sure is needed.
The only two exceptions are Bayonetta 2 and X, although they are still sequels of franchises we've seen recently, and the only timeline we have is a very vague "2014", meaning it may be late 2014 or even 2015. Not promising.
I guess Nintendo's recent efforts with fresh titles bombing has made them a little more reticent on going down that path again.... but it sure is needed.
blue_phazon
Member
At this point, I'm starved for new IPs from Nintendo, or at least IPs that haven't been around for generations. I mean we all played Smash, Kart, 3D Mario, etc. last generation with the Wii, and it seems like Nintendo's just pulling out the exact same franchises again
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
At least Metroid Prime 4 would be keeping the Metroid brand alive. Besides, all of the Metroid Prime games are pretty different from each other, and it's not like we have a glutton of 3D first person action platformer adventure games (unlike the massive amounts of 2D platformers). And Metroid offers more opportunities for interesting art design.
I would probably complain a little bit, but I get it.
Saargabath
Member
I for one, want to see Nintendo make studios working on new IPs.
Not necessarily retro or EAD but they need fresh blood to bring back core gamers. For that they need a LOT of new games with very different appeal. Donkey Kong is fine. Mario is fine. We need these games.
But gamers want more and they've shown it for quite a long time now.
They need their own Naughty Dog to make very ambitious games such as the Uncharted series or TLOU.
Retro could have been working on such new IP because they have the talent for it.
Not necessarily retro or EAD but they need fresh blood to bring back core gamers. For that they need a LOT of new games with very different appeal. Donkey Kong is fine. Mario is fine. We need these games.
But gamers want more and they've shown it for quite a long time now.
They need their own Naughty Dog to make very ambitious games such as the Uncharted series or TLOU.
Retro could have been working on such new IP because they have the talent for it.
hgarrett54
Banned
"Wah wah wah. There's too many shooters. E3 was all FPS games"
"Oh, Rare is making a DKC games? Fuck that! Waaah!"
"Oh, Rare is making a DKC games? Fuck that! Waaah!"
Fourth Storm
Member
I personally have had my fill of DKCR. Great game (except the barrel rocket sections), but I want something new and unique. As I grow older and have less time for games, my desire for straight sequels has diminished.
EatinOlives
Member
This.
New IP, let them flourish creatively, and they'll make a game that will give the WiiU some of the attention it desperately needs.
EDIT:
E3 wasn't all FPS, I'm looking forward to KH3, Killer Instinct, FF15, Second Son, and Watch Dogs. None of them being FPSs. I couldn't care less about BF3, Killzone or whatever. After seeing all those games I have to say Nintendo's presentation was the stalest by far, with stuff like Retro doing another DKCR being one of the main reasons why.
People are upset that Nintendo isn't structured in a way that allows devs to create their own IPs. It's a different system, where creators are kind of "franchised out." On the plus side, creators hone their craft in making specific types of games and are able to retain their job. On the other hand, creative risks are generally muted. I think the last Nintendo developer that was able to exhibit their own creative freedom was N64-era Rare. Otherwise, we see a few new IPs, but for the most part Nintendo sticks to its game philosophy that prioritizes classic game design over individuality.
I think some people read into it as a "western" dev being stifled by Nintendo's philosophy, but at the end of the day the fact remains that Nintendo and Retro remain committed to crafting incredible game experiences. At this point, if you can't get excited for 2.5D platformers, that seems to me like a personal problem.
I think some people read into it as a "western" dev being stifled by Nintendo's philosophy, but at the end of the day the fact remains that Nintendo and Retro remain committed to crafting incredible game experiences. At this point, if you can't get excited for 2.5D platformers, that seems to me like a personal problem.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
I'm sure Donkey Kong will be fantastic just like Donkey Kong Country Returns. I just wish Retro was working on a new IP. Maybe some sort of WRPG to compliment Monolithsoft's X.
Wonderful 101, it's not Nintendo but you listed Bayonetta 2, doesn't impress you?
CouldBeWorse
Member
Because I want new IP and new experiences on a system that is almost completely devoid of either.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm puzzled about this oversaturation of 2D platformers.
Let's see--we saw DKC, right? That's one. We've got NSMBU. That's two. Yoshi Yarn isn't coming until 2014 at the earliest and my guess is we won't see it until 2015. What else has Nintendo shown that is a 2D platformer?
As for the people wanting Retro to be "unleashed," you do realize most of the people behind Metroid Prime are gone, right?
Steve Youngblood
Member
To me, the problem is that Retro's mystery project was the one chance for them to drop some sort of bombshell on us and dazzle us with something that was both technically impressive and could show what the Wii U was capable while also providing the userbase with something outside of Nintendo's wheelhouse. I'm sure Donkey Kong will be a fun game, but my problem is that -- when someone critiques Nintendo's woes with the Wii U right now -- I don't think "it's lacking in mascot platformers" ranks very high on the list. Whether it was Metroid or something brand new, Retro's undisclosed project was looked to as a wild card that might fill a void in the lineup. Instead, it's another Donkey Kong Country game.
I don't think it's beneath them, as I'm sure they'll release a great title here. But this is a remarkably safe play when I feel Nintendo desperately needed to take a chance here.
I don't think it's beneath them, as I'm sure they'll release a great title here. But this is a remarkably safe play when I feel Nintendo desperately needed to take a chance here.
jediyoshi
Member
It's almost as if both genres are perceived to be stagnating, at the same time. Simultaneously.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Are those the same people, or are you just conflating two separate arguments into a strawman?
Because Metroïd Prime was so good even the best AAA platformer can't possibly overcome the fantasy of a MP sequel just as perfect as the original.
But FPS/FPS are now so good and numerous on other platforms Nintendo is probably right to focus on genres gamers don't find that easily elsewhere.
But FPS/FPS are now so good and numerous on other platforms Nintendo is probably right to focus on genres gamers don't find that easily elsewhere.
Prince of Space
Banned
This, exactly. DKCR was one of my favorite games of 2010, and is easily among the best platformers of all time, for my money. I'll admit I was a little bummed to hear they weren't working on a new IP, but the trailer completely won me over. Don't even have a Wii U yet, but I can't wait to play this game.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Retro can do better than this. Graphically its disappointing. Its a disappointment ambitions wise too. Everyone knows Retro is one of the greatest developers and yet their making a 2-d plat former. Its just not a genre that stands out nowadays as much as it did in the past. Its like ND coming out and saying they are going to do a racing game.
This is could of been Nintendo's clutch, their ace up their sleeve. A new Retro IP would have been a massive draw to buy a WiiU.
Conciliator
Banned
Because I'd rather see them make something crazy/ambitious. I'm sure the new Donkey Kong will be a really solid platformer just like the existing one, just not psyched about it.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, there's New Super Luigi U coming soon. There's also -- and I understand that it's third-party and multiplatform now -- Rayman coming in September. And then when you move to the 3D realm, you've got Mario and Sonic coming as well.
Dr.Thunder
Member
I was disappointed at first but now I am just excited to play the game.
I was initially disappointed, but I'm getting more and more excited. The first game was really fun, and it looks like they're expanding on what made the first so great. I think the reason for the disappointment is that people were expecting to be wowed by at least one Nintendo game. E3 was a showcase of what the next generation hardware will bring. Game worlds have increased in size, scope, and detail. BF4 showed off an entire skyscraper being taken down in a multiplayer map. Metal Gear Solid is open world now with horse-back riding and a variety of vehicles to get into and use. Nintendo didn't show anything like that. Everything Nintendo showed looks like something we've already seen. 3D World looks like 3D Land. MK8 looks like MK7. The studio that people know can really deliver an amazing and immersive experience is Retro, and we got a game that looks like one we already played.
Again, I'm excited for the game. Retro will put all their creative force and talent behind this game, and I'm sure it will be just as amazing as the original. I just think people were expecting either HD Prime or something completely new.
Again, I'm excited for the game. Retro will put all their creative force and talent behind this game, and I'm sure it will be just as amazing as the original. I just think people were expecting either HD Prime or something completely new.
Brainiac 8
Member
Retro is awesome, and DKC was one of the best games last gen, so a sequel is fantastic news.
I'm hoping that with some of the talent they've been hiring, that Nintendo has been working on expanding them so they can do multiple titles.
I'm sure they are already working on something else.
In the end, the decision to do another DKC title was Retro's, not Nintendos.
I'm hoping that with some of the talent they've been hiring, that Nintendo has been working on expanding them so they can do multiple titles.
I'm sure they are already working on something else.
In the end, the decision to do another DKC title was Retro's, not Nintendos.
Honestly OP I'm confused as well.
Personally I would have wanted a new IP from Retro, but it sounds like Nintendo didn't give them that option. It was either Metroid or Donkey Kong, and I think they made the right choice. That studio is probably tired of Metroid, they will definitely come back to the IP some day, but that series defined the studio for almost 2 entire console generations, they were eager to work on something like Donkey Kong.
Just looking at what they introduced in DKC TF there looks to be a lot more things they want to do with the series before hanging it up.
Personally I would have wanted a new IP from Retro, but it sounds like Nintendo didn't give them that option. It was either Metroid or Donkey Kong, and I think they made the right choice. That studio is probably tired of Metroid, they will definitely come back to the IP some day, but that series defined the studio for almost 2 entire console generations, they were eager to work on something like Donkey Kong.
Just looking at what they introduced in DKC TF there looks to be a lot more things they want to do with the series before hanging it up.
evilromero
Member
I don't know about you guys, but Donkey Kong Country Returns (and Tropical Freeze), are the kind of caliber of games I expected Nintendo's EAD group to produce. It seems more and more that EAD has kind of abandoned hardcore games for the most part, which is exceedingly disappointing. And now it seems Nintendo is letting that task fall on the likes of Retro, Next Level Games and others. The problem I see is Nintendo mismanaging Retro's flagship talent- attracting a western audience with fantastic graphics and core appeal.
brandonh83
Banned
The worst thing about this is that the subtitle sounds like some fast food gimmick beverage.
no, i guess i missed something. what other unknown title?
yes, yes i was...
People had impossible expectations from Retro's "secret" project. It's partially Nintendo's fault since they contributed to the mistery and hype, but the complaints are mainly by the folks expecting some sort of gritty AAA blockbuster Startropics revival or something like that.
I'm OK with another DKC, I was disappointed by the graphics and art direction, which looks exactly like the last game, but Wise on board made up for it.
I'm OK with another DKC, I was disappointed by the graphics and art direction, which looks exactly like the last game, but Wise on board made up for it.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
This announcement didn't make the same impact the first DKCR made. Most ofthe people I know where hoping for an announcement a la DKCR, not it's sequel.
I thought they could be working on a new IP or something. I'll keep my expectation lowet next time.
I thought they could be working on a new IP or something. I'll keep my expectation lowet next time.
Silver_DNA
Member
I take it the guy who said they were making Star Tropics has been banned by now.
Anyway, I was disappointed that this is what they were working on instead of something brand new, but at the same time I wouldn't want any other developer making a Donkey Kong game. If anything Retro should expand so they can have three games going at once and can put out a new game every year or two. This is the company Nintendo should throw the most money at, and they own it.
Anyway, I was disappointed that this is what they were working on instead of something brand new, but at the same time I wouldn't want any other developer making a Donkey Kong game. If anything Retro should expand so they can have three games going at once and can put out a new game every year or two. This is the company Nintendo should throw the most money at, and they own it.
Green Mamba
Member
Metroid Prime is among my top ten games of all time, but let's be real; each Metroid Prime was worse than the one before it and Metroid Prime 3 was veering into the direction of actiony level-based FPS that the series should absolutely not go in. I have no faith in another Retro developed MP to divert that. It's also pretty clear by the third that Retro was tired of Metroid.
DKCR was a breath of fresh air from them, let's see where they can take it.
MMaRsu
Banned
I love platformers, I love Donkey Kong from back in the SNES days.
Nintendo NEEDS new IP's. As an old Nintendo fan the only games I am interested in are the Zelda games these days. The new Mario certainly doesn't look interesting at all.
Retro is a great studio, and I'm sure they'll do Donkey Kong proud. But really..a new DK game? Man if only they were able to go full out on a new IP.
Nintendo NEEDS new IP's. As an old Nintendo fan the only games I am interested in are the Zelda games these days. The new Mario certainly doesn't look interesting at all.
Retro is a great studio, and I'm sure they'll do Donkey Kong proud. But really..a new DK game? Man if only they were able to go full out on a new IP.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
We also have, you know, non-Nintendo platformers. Indie games are loaded with them, and there's a shit ton of them coming to WiiU alone (like Ducktales, Shovel Knight, Rayman Legends, etc). I've got more 2D platformers to play than I'll ever finish.
And whether or not the people who made Metroid Prime are there or not, DKCR showed the people that remain are really good at what they do. Expand! Create! Innovate!
That is definitely a point of contention. I think MP2 is a better game than MP1.
Dr.Thunder
Member
It just kind of sucks that we live in a time when a new Donkey Kong Country game is a disappointment to some people.
Somehow those visuals almost remind me of a more advanced version of Jak and Daxter...
I am not sure the scope will be bigger. The press materials say it is only 5 Islands and Donkey Kong Country Returns had 8. I think this is just a filler title to get money coming in so Retro can work on their "real" project. I also think that because there are so many platformers coming to the system, that the game format is losing value to where no one would pay over $40 for those type of games.
Did the person who got the second steak feel similarly disappointed?
That's the problem I have with this analogy; the idea that 'steak' is automatically superior to 'burger', that '3D FPS' is automatically superior to '2D platformer'. I'm okay with people being disappointed by this - I'd kinda have liked to see something completely new too - but don't make the argument along those lines.
- That's something Nintendo could have done in the main-house and the result would have been pretty much the same.
- Retro being a western developer has the ability to create something that looks radically different from what Nintendo usually does.
- 2,5D Platformers, as good as they are, are considered easy to produce filler games, or lacking scope and ambition.
- Nintendo needed to surprise people and break from the usual franchise milking/rebirth, Retro would have been a good fit for that.
- Retro being a western developer has the ability to create something that looks radically different from what Nintendo usually does.
- 2,5D Platformers, as good as they are, are considered easy to produce filler games, or lacking scope and ambition.
- Nintendo needed to surprise people and break from the usual franchise milking/rebirth, Retro would have been a good fit for that.
megaman511
Member
I don't think it's about wasting their talent per se. It's that the Wii U desperately needs a show piece title since they don't have that singular 'jump in' title like Wii Sports that everyone wants to play.
Retro is likely one of the few Nintendo teams at the moment capable of producing such a game, so the fact that they are not is why so many are disappointed.
No doubt DKCTF will be a fantastic game, but it's not going to be a 'WOW' game that will drive console sales or show the capabilities of the Wii U. It just doesn't seem to be the game the Wii U needs right now.
Retro is likely one of the few Nintendo teams at the moment capable of producing such a game, so the fact that they are not is why so many are disappointed.
No doubt DKCTF will be a fantastic game, but it's not going to be a 'WOW' game that will drive console sales or show the capabilities of the Wii U. It just doesn't seem to be the game the Wii U needs right now.
This is one of those things where if Naughty Dog announced it was doing Uncharted for PS4 there would be no discussion. Or 343 doing Halo for that matter.
2D platformers have consistently gotten shit from modern gamers as being lesser games. Even on Wii game like DKCR were described as something that should be a $20 downloadable. Tight and focused gameplay are not as in vogue as graphics and set-pieces with a lot of the gamer crowd (though certainly 2D platformers are very well liked in general).
2D platformers have consistently gotten shit from modern gamers as being lesser games. Even on Wii game like DKCR were described as something that should be a $20 downloadable. Tight and focused gameplay are not as in vogue as graphics and set-pieces with a lot of the gamer crowd (though certainly 2D platformers are very well liked in general).
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