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[KàIRóS]

First of all this is not a thread to theorize about the ending of FFVIIR even though I think I will obviously have to theorize a bit to explain my point, It is instead a thread to sort of defend Square Enix because I've seen a lot of hate for the ending of FFVIIR and contrary to the majority I think they are actually setting of something really cool and I'm finally beginning to understand why the VII remake project had to be episodic instead of just remaking the whole FFVII in 1 game.

-FINAL WARNING FOR SPOILERS-

Different timelines were estalished in the ending, It wasn't the best narrative execution, something typical with Tetsuya Nomura being the director but well the Whispers ultimately served their purpouse and simply put I think that by establishing different timelines Square has really set a lot of opportunities to make the other FFVIIR episodes much less stretched with filler and rather have completely new content like seeing how the events would unfold if Zack lives, Aerith lives, Sephiroth joins forces with the party to defeat a new enemy, etc, they really opened up a lot possible events and maybe even introduce characters from the expanded FFVII universe like Kadaj or Genesis in the mainline or even properly explain plotholes from the original like the promised land or what Jenova really is, the lore in FFVII is huge after all.

Now this doesn't necesarilly mean the OG events are going to be modified, if you think about it in this first game none of the events were modified, we only saw a small glimpse that in another timeline Zack survived and that Biggs also survived (something that had to be done if they wanted to use these characters for the other episodes) but up until the ending FFVIIR was truly a remake and it ultimately ends with the party leaving Midgar to chase Sephirtoh so still OG story and once again by having multiple timelines they can just let the players decide if they truly want to change or preserve the OG story and this is were the brilliance from a game design POV comes in, if this is going to be an episodic release it means it's Mass Effect all over again, your decisions from the previous games matter in the next ones, if Aerith dies then the OG story is preserved, she summons Holy, the party defeats Sephiroth and that's it but you could have saved her now and change other outcomes too, you have the choice after all.

I was extremely dissapointed when SE said they would make the FFVII Remake into an episodic release but now I'm genuinely excited for Part 2 even though Part 1 wasn't the best start, they at least established a good battle system, they finally brought Nobuo Uematsu back and hopefully Nomura will stop with his non sensical writing, thankfully Kasushige Nojima is by his side in the writing team.

 

[Self]

I can absolutely agree with everthing you said. SE nailed it.

I am really exited to see things unfolding in a different way. Nevertheless, I was a little bit confused about the different timeline aspects, which is a somewhat new concept for me.

 

[martino]

Then it will be limited at some of the story like it was with mass effect 3.
IMO it can work if we have multiple episode 3 games or at least content not happening at all depending on episode 2 choice if it's one game.
I don't see it happening under capitalism reign.

 

[The Shepard]

I loved the game. I'm open to the ending, you won't know the outcome till the next episode so that's when I'll decide if it's a good idea or not. I just want a more open world with that awesome combat and music in the sequel and I'll be a happy chap. More materia slots.

They made sure you seen the dog on the packet was different to the one they kept pointing out in game in the zack part of the ending. I think it was just a nod to old players saying zack lived in one of the time lines with what was accomplished in this game. I can see him still being dead in the the next game. Perhaps he can have he's own spin off, crisis core 2.

 

[Dacon]

Why isnt this in the spoiler thread?Also, the title alone is kind of giving the whole thing away.

There's still people who haven't beaten the game who don't know that it's divisive/controversial.

 

[KàIRóS]

Why isnt this in the spoiler thread?Also, the title alone is kind of giving the whole thing away.

There's still people who haven't beaten the game who don't know that it's divisive/controversial.

I wanted to make a separate thread because everyone is just speculating in the spoiler thread about what comes next in the story, my post is just about how the ending potentially makes the next episodes more interesting from a gameplay perspective not from the story perspective.

Also how is the title giving away anything?

 

[Dacon]

I wanted to make a separate thread because everyone is just speculating in the spoiler thread about what comes next in the story, my post is just about how the ending potentially makes the next episodes more interesting from a gameplay perspective not from the story perspective.

Also how is the title giving away anything?

Because I'm sure many people, like myself are expecting the game to end a certain way based off the original. Your title gives away that the ending isnt business as usual.

 

[KàIRóS]

Because I'm sure many people, like myself are expecting the game to end a certain way based off the original. Your title gives away that the ending isnt business as usual.

I don't see how the title could lead anyone to believe that, if you're talking about the "part 2" thing, SE said the remake was episodic since 2015.

 

[AMV]

CHRONO FANTASY VII.

Someone please make a mockup cover

 

[KiNeMz]

Yea I would be pissed if I read this forum thread title before finishing this game. I would get it revised.

 

[Kev Kev]

I don't see how the title could lead anyone to believe that, if you're talking about the "part 2" thing, SE said the remake was episodic since 2015.

no, the part where you mention the ending could be brilliant, giving away the fact that it's different than the original ending. i wouldnt have wanted that spoiled for me either. thankfully i already beat it before i saw your post. you could just report your OP and have them change the topic title to something that doesn't mention the word "end" or "ending" and has a spoiler warning...

or, ya know, you could have just posted it in the other ffvii topics like everyone else, specifically the spoiler one

 

[Alphagear]

Absolutely loved the addition of the whispers.

Added a freshness to the game especially for gamers who have played the original.

Pity it wasn't the full game cause I didn't want it to end.

 

[Alphagear]

I loved the game. I'm open to the ending, you won't know the outcome till the next episode so that's when I'll decide if it's a good idea or not. I just want a more open world with that awesome combat and music in the sequel and I'll be a happy chap. More materia slots.

They made sure you seen the dog on the packet was different to the one they kept pointing out in game in the zack part of the ending. I think it was just a nod to old players saying zack lived in one of the time lines with what was accomplished in this game. I can see him still being dead in the the next game. Perhaps he can have he's own spin off, crisis core 2.

Next part has got to be open world since you enter the world map in the original right after leaving Midgar.

I hope they keep the world map simple just for grinding like the original. Dont wanna see a seamless world like FF15.

 

[KàIRóS]

no, the part where you mention the ending could be brilliant, giving away the fact that it's different than the original ending. i wouldnt have wanted that spoiled for me either.

But how is that an spoiler I don't get it, what am I spoiling there? and it was obvious it would be a different ending, this is just part 1 we knew this was part 1 for 5 years.

 

[Alphagear]

The addition of whispers only suggests something big will be changed in the story.

I have a pretty good idea what it is.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

Off topic but you got me dreaming about SE financing a Legacy of Kain remake with a similar premise.

It's time to flip the coin again...and again...and again...

 

[Alphagear]

Off topic but you got me dreaming about SE financing a Legacy of Kain remake with a similar premise.

It's time to flip the coin again...and again...and again...

If any Square games definitely need remakes its gotta be FF6 and Chrono Trigger.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

If any Square games definitely need remakes its gotta be FF6 and Chrono Trigger.

I can't say much for FF6 (didn't play it at all) but yes, Chrono Trigger could see more content added since it's premise is built around time travelling.

I brought up LOK cause alternate timelines were a big factor in the story throughout the series. That and I'd love to see it have a combat revamp.

Characters, storyline, world building and atmosphere were all top notch and it'd be great if we and the newer generation of gamers could experience it.

 

[The Shepard]

Next part has got to be open world since you enter the world map in the original right after leaving Midgar.

I hope they keep the world map simple just for grinding like the original. Dont wanna see a seamless world like FF15.

I just hope it's not completely linear tunnels to each new place, I know the original opened out after midgar. I also want it to start with the story of sephiroth in kalm town, explore that town a bit after, then walk outside to the open world in all the ps5's glory traveling to the Chocobo ranch with midgar lurking in the background.

 

[Shrap]

Nah. It was shit.

They won't introduce decision making mechanics in the latter episodes. If there is one thing you can say about this remake it's that it is tightly controlled. The narrative, the places you can go, tackling side missions only during specific parts of specific chapters, even how much of the area that you are in you can actually explore before an X pops up on the screen or a character yells at you. There is one path and it's Square Enix's, no matter how convoluted and out of whack it becomes.

 

[KOMANI]

Within a 6 month period, we’ve had two major AAA games come out that were heavily influenced by Neon Genesis. Final Fantasy 7: Remake seems like it was inspired by the Rebuild movies. It’s a good compromise of retelling the FF7 lore and by offering something new.

 

[Dontero]

Sorry but timelines is garbage idea. The reason why people liked FF7 is because of its story characters and events in it. Timelines is basically giving fanboys what they want so they can kill everything that was good about it and leave nothing to remember.

This was literally whole point of season 3 of Twin Peaks.

If Aerith would live and half of those events in game went other way no one would remember FF7 and FF7 would be worse game.

Good story is not choose your own adventure because most of people don't have ability to make right choices and they are scared to pay the price for their choices. If it was to player to pick Aerith death then no player would pick that.

 

[Alphagear]

I just hope it's not completely linear tunnels to each new place, I know the original opened out after midgar. I also want it to start with the story of sephiroth in kalm town, explore that town a bit after, then walk outside to the open world in all the ps5's glory traveling to the Chocobo ranch with midgar lurking in the background.

Lets hope so.

 

[KàIRóS]

Sorry but timelines is garbage idea. The reason why people liked FF7 is because of its story characters and events in it. Timelines is basically giving fanboys what they want so they can kill everything that was good about it and leave nothing to remember.

This was literally whole point of season 3 of Twin Peaks.

If Aerith would live and half of those events in game went other way no one would remember FF7 and FF7 would be worse game.

Good story is not choose your own adventure because most of people don't have ability to make right choices and they are scared to pay the price for their choices. If it was to player to pick Aerith death then no player would pick that.

If they do change events, yeah that would be fucked up, I will be very pissed, but for now I'd like t think they won't.

In the end this is a remake, I'm pretty sure they will keep the OG events for future episodes, just like they did in this first episode.

 

[ethomaz]

Typical garbage ideia lol
What FFVII really doesn't need are different timelines.

 

[Ten_Fold]

After finishing the game I understand why they really called this Final Fantasy 7 REMAKE, instead of just Final Fantasy 7. It's just a remake sequel timeline type of game. I think it will hurt FF7 in the long run though. I know I won't buy part 2 or 3 at launch, if at all.

 

[mejin]

Can't wait for the sequel.

 

[Vawn]

If Aerith lives this whole thing is a disaster.

Ok, that's too far since FFVII Remake by itself was already a fantastic experience. But it seems they are turning the Remake into a time-traveling sequel. It feels like it might become "Final Fantasy VII - Fringe Edition".

 

[Entroyp]

This game went from 10/10 to shit for me, even way before the ending. I’m forcing myself to finish the last battle and be done with this mess for good.

On the other hand I’m glad this is its own thing and didn’t ruin the original in any way like star wars.

 

[Neff]

I'm (slowly) coming round to the idea that FFVIIR's ending was the best way to go into part 2 and beyond, but my issue with potential changes is this- I'm in love with these characters, not simply for the sake of loving them, not simply because I get a warm fuzzy glow when I see them. I'm in love with them very specifically because of what they did and represented in the original FFVII. They're not like Kirk/Spock/Bones, who were custom-made to be dropped into a variety of situations and be interesting and dynamic in them. FFVII's characters were custom-made for FFVII's story, and they fit it like a glove. I'll admit that I'm keen to see what happens going forward, but I get the nagging feeling that any changes are going to be a continuation of the kind of the cheap, pointless shocker we saw with Barret, sans continuity ghost protection. I hope not, and I hope they have something which genuinely works up their sleeve. We'll see.

If Aerith lives this whole thing is a disaster.

Honestly, this would be the single worst thing they could do.

 

[Kumomeme]

the problem with ending is they kind of spoiled certain important event which is should be untold yet..i get the idea that later will allow player to choose to defied fate or let it flow for example later we might given choice to save Aerith or not but there will be complication..it sound great but i afraid either:

1.square never intended that from start
2.it end up not simply as that, but convulted kingdom heart-esque nomura style like instead

also, im not suprise if they take another route...the story still remain to original, but take these arbiter of fate differently... as Aerith knowing that by defied fate allowing him to live, earth will face severe complication and she choose to sacrifice himself instead, or sephiroth did manage change the fate but Aerith intended to sacrifice himself to alter the change

and taken how the team handle the game, im not suprise they change how zack died..the cutscene at the end doesnt necessary imply he survived, instead they might expand that both zack and cloud managed to get to midgar, live there for short time until there stuff happened and he end up died later, set up new character that responsible for the event of zack death

from the last scene where the team leave midgar while zack on the route to enter midgar, from how i perceive it might be actually mark the former beginning of new journey vs the latter is beginning of 'everything'..basically imply the moment zack and cloud there is the turning point of that started ffvii journey and later at same spot the team mark a 'new turning point' of another next journey..if thats was their intention, that is sweet ending..typical style of ending that mean embark a new beginning..which is better if they left this instead of fight against whisper to change the future lol

but the rest of ending, the nomura ridiculous kh things ruined that would be amazing game...personally all those thing came before is great, but that ending didnt give the game justice, ruined it instead..

different theory i had from the ending is, what they erase is not future original ffvii timeline, but a sign that the team rewrite/reboot whole Complication of Final Fantasy VII

 

[Dontero]

I think problem is that you are thinking this was made by awesome developers.

Fact is that SE doesn't know where it has its ass and where it has its face. It is media company that is tightly operated by suits and if they think changing story means selling more marchandize like t-shirts they will absolutely do that.

This is why FFXV sucks. Because they were more focused on selling T-shirts than making game.

 

[Fuz]

There's still people who haven't beaten the game who don't know that it's divisive/controversial.

Don't get me wrong, I hate spoilers with a burning passion and I'd rather be safe than sorry in that regard, but...

Serioulsy? At this point? Who?

 

[Vawn]

Don't get me wrong, I hate spoilers with a burning passion and I'd rather be safe than sorry in that regard, but...

Serioulsy? At this point? Who?

The game is a week old.

 

[Fuz]

The game is a week old.

Yeah, sure... but it's also the most discussed thing in the internet after the covid-19.

Again - I'm a huge supporter of spoiler tags. Even for things years old. Was just wondering.

 

[Vawn]

Yeah, sure... but it's also the most discussed thing in the internet after the covid-19.

People avoiding spoilers aren't going into any FF7 threads though. Meaning if they get spoiled, it's most likely from thread or article titles they were trying to avoid.

 

[ExpandKong]

I just hope it's not completely linear tunnels to each new place, I know the original opened out after midgar. I also want it to start with the story of sephiroth in kalm town, explore that town a bit after, then walk outside to the open world in all the ps5's glory traveling to the Chocobo ranch with midgar lurking in the background.

Enjoy walking in a straight line from Kalm to the chocobo ranch, through the mythril cavern, and out to Junon, because that’s episode 2 right there. Maybe with a mining side quest in the cavern and some stupid shit to deliver to people in Junon to really pad things out. Bonus superboss will be the Midgar Zolom in the swamp. $300 deluxe collector’s edition to include Fat Chocobo exclusive DLC summon materia and a statue of Cloud fucking up the parade.

 

[Arkage]

First of all this is not a thread to theorize about the ending of FFVIIR even though I think I will obviously have to theorize a bit to explain my point, It is instead a thread to sort of defend Square Enix because I've seen a lot of hate for the ending of FFVIIR and contrary to the majority I think they are actually setting of something really cool and I'm finally beginning to understand why the VII remake project had to be episodic instead of just remaking the whole FFVII in 1 game.

-FINAL WARNING FOR SPOILERS-

Different timelines were estalished in the ending, It wasn't the best narrative execution, something typical with Tetsuya Nomura being the director but well the Whispers ultimately served their purpouse and simply put I think that by establishing different timelines Square has really set a lot of opportunities to make the other FFVIIR episodes much less stretched with filler and rather have completely new content like seeing how the events would unfold if Zack lives, Aerith lives, Sephiroth joins forces with the party to defeat a new enemy, etc, they really opened up a lot possible events and maybe even introduce characters from the expanded FFVII universe like Kadaj or Genesis in the mainline or even properly explain plotholes from the original like the promised land or what Jenova really is, the lore in FFVII is huge after all.

Now this doesn't necesarilly mean the OG events are going to be modified, if you think about it in this first game none of the events were modified, we only saw a small glimpse that in another timeline Zack survived and that Biggs also survived (something that had to be done if they wanted to use these characters for the other episodes) but up until the ending FFVIIR was truly a remake and it ultimately ends with the party leaving Midgar to chase Sephirtoh so still OG story and once again by having multiple timelines they can just let the players decide if they truly want to change or preserve the OG story and this is were the brilliance from a game design POV comes in, if this is going to be an episodic release it means it's Mass Effect all over again, your decisions from the previous games matter in the next ones, if Aerith dies then the OG story is preserved, she summons Holy, the party defeats Sephiroth and that's it but you could have saved her now and change other outcomes too, you have the choice after all.

I was extremely dissapointed when SE said they would make the FFVII Remake into an episodic release but now I'm genuinely excited for Part 2 even though Part 1 wasn't the best start, they at least established a good battle system, they finally brought Nobuo Uematsu back and hopefully Nomura will stop with his non sensical writing, thankfully Kasushige Nojima is by his side in the writing team.

My problem with this "openness" is that the game demonstrates HUGE DIFFERENCES can happen if not for the whispers. For example if no whispers Barret is dead. If no whispers, Aerith falls down in the church and gets captured much earlier, meaning no relationship develops between her and Cloud and there's no reason Cloud would rescue her. In fact if no whispers, Cloud would've sat out during the 2nd bombing run and never met Aerith in the first place (the whispers caused Jessie to get hurt forcing Barret to ask Cloud for help). These are big fucking changes that would've happened if not for the whispers. So now that the whispers are gone, I'm thinking big differences will continue.

That being said, I think they'll keep all the locations basically the same, and general story arcs of the team members basically the same. Since each characters personality is really well realized, as long as they stay true to the characters I think it will be... fine. But again, after the disaster that was KH3 so called "story" I don't have a lot of faith in them to make new major story beats as interesting, or better, than the OG.

 

[Griffon]

Knowing the story chops of current Square Enix, we all know the new story will be a convoluted clusterfuck of loosely connected fanfic scenes.

But if that mess of an ending pleased you, I guess this is what you want...

 

[Damigos]

I agree with almost everything from the OP.
Only thing that worries is multiple timelines. Its hard to do them right

 

[ethomaz]

My problem with this "openness" is that the game demonstrates HUGE DIFFERENCES can happen if not for the whispers. For example if no whispers Barret is dead. If no whispers, Aerith falls down in the church and gets captured much earlier, meaning no relationship develops between her and Cloud and there's no reason Cloud would rescue her. In fact if no whispers, Cloud would've sat out during the 2nd bombing run and never met Aerith in the first place (the whispers caused Jessie to get hurt forcing Barret to ask Cloud for help). These are big fucking changes that would've happened if not for the whispers. So now that the whispers are gone, I'm thinking big differences will continue.

That being said, I think they'll keep all the locations basically the same, and general story arcs of the team members basically the same. Since each characters personality is really well realized, as long as they stay true to the characters I think it will be... fine. But again, after the disaster that was KH3 so called "story" I don't have a lot of faith in them to make new major story beats as interesting, or better, than the OG.

But everything happened without any Whispers in the original

They just made up whispers as excuse to change the story and characters personalities because it is an alternative timeline.

To fair it just shows lack of creativity.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Then it will be limited at some of the story like it was with mass effect 3.
IMO it can work if we have multiple episode 3 games or at least content not happening at all depending on episode 2 choice if it's one game.
I don't see it happening under capitalism reign.

Sort of this, but without the mad anti-capitalist bit at the end.

The more choice you include, the more work that has to be done, and as time goes on the more diverse and costly the consequences would be.

If Aerith can live, there needs to be two wholly different sets of dialogue written and recorded. The same for Zack. 4 if they both live. 8 if they both can live and Sephiroth can also join the party.

And that's assuming there are no other choices and no real consequences to their being in the party or not that would effect things

Now it is entirely possible to have these choices and their consequences, but it would be a lot of work and require meticulous planning and coordination, and a willingness to invest in such an endeavor by the publisher. It would be great to have that, but would risk cuts being made elsewhere to accommodate it.

That's what killed Mass Effect 3. They had idiots in charge, and shortsighted greedy arseholes holding the purse strings that invested in stupid unnecessary trend chasing like multiplayer and chasing a different audience to the one they had.

It wasn't capitalism that killed ME3 and it's potential, it was a failure to understand the market and consumer enough to deliver the product people actually wanted.

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

Just finished up tonight, there were so many times this game had my jaw on the floor, parts nostalgia, parts updated visuals, parts soundtrack, parts new additions to the story. The end was a wild ride from that last floor in the Shinra building to the credits rolling, I might add it was all very fun to play through and yes there was a definite Advent Children vibe. It would seem the structure of OG story is very much intact but at the same time, in a generalization of everything, they are telling the story they wanted to tell in 1997 but were limited due to the technology. That being said I'm not sure where the next episode will take us but I am very excited to find out, Square-Enix take the wheel!

 

[KàIRóS]

Knowing the story chops of current Square Enix, we all know the new story will be a convoluted clusterfuck of loosely connected fanfic scenes.

But if that mess of an ending pleased you, I guess this is what you want...

Look I've played OG FFVII from beginning to end like 6 times across different platforms, I know the story like the back of my hand, I didn't like the ending of the remake one bit, I hated every second of it, I had this face of "WTF is happening?" the entire time, I didn't even enjoy the final battles and like every other OG FFVII player I do feel betrayed by Square Enix, BUT, I also think it was the right choice to end it that way, because:

1. Now I genuinely don't know wtf will happen in episode 2.
2. I'm not gonna lie, seeing how things will continue from here on is actually exciting.
3. Like I said in the first post I also think the ending could be potentially good from a game design perspective.

But notice how I wrote "COULD be brilliant" in the title with "could" on capital letters, that's because, yes Square Enix can indeed still fuck up the rest of this project, but we won't know until part 2 comes out, for now I think they did an overall ok job on this first game, I didn't like all the filler in the Midgar arc but for the most part it really was mostly a remake and I guess they had to stretch the game somehow, we'll see how their gamble with the ending pays out in future episodes though.

I think problem is that you are thinking this was made by awesome developers.

Pfft, nope not even close, I can count with one hand the games I've liked from Square Enix for the past decade, they have been mostly terrible since Sakaguchi left, the only FF I've enjoyed since X is XIV and I didn't like FFVIIR as much as some of you are thinking, I have mostly given up on Square Enix making good games, but I just happen to play every JRPG out there and guess who is the number one JRPG developer in the world.

 

[fallingdove]

Sorry OP. Square shit the bed with this one. No amount of optimism is going to clean it up.

Using an alternate timeline as a plot mechanic in a world as rich and as developed as the one in FF7 is as insulting as it is lazy.

 

[Fuz]

No.

 

[vkbest]

This is scam. The game should be named, reboot or reimagining, no remake.

 

[Tomeru]

You made me think. I love this game, am gonna go for plat, and I liked the ending. Its just this weird feeling - if they are going to take ff7 in a different path, what was the point of just remaking ff7s midgar almost exactly the same as it was? Why not go differently from the top?

I would like for the rest to be in the same veins as this remake was - changes that wont affect the over all turn of events.

I would also like to experience the new version they seem to do. Im just torn, lying naked on the floor, I mean illusions never change into something real.

Fuck this quarantine fucked me up good.

 

[Valonquar]

Ask GOT fans what they think of subverting expectations.

 

[SakkanartSilentJealousy]

Not fans of Whispers, Too much around Midgar and interrupt the story, then become a stupid Giant Boss.

I don't think SE will change the main plot (Zack lived, Aerith lived). No, please.

Overall great game and I can't wait for Part 2.