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Why was every “insider” wrong about PS5 power?

T

Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Firstly, I’ll just say PS5 will be the only next gen system I buy. Not enough time to spend playing games these days anyway.

That being said, is this just the era of “fake news” where people we lend credibility to just take advantage of a public starved for information? We heard of dev kit revisions which where above 11-12TF after all..

There should have been a slew of bans after all these verified insiders spread false information for months. Pretty poor form. I just find the whole thing fascinating.

Or maybe there is a simple explanation? All of these insiders had the exact same bullshit source perhaps?
 
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Ellery

Ellery

Member
Because there are not many people that actually knew about the exact retail specifications of the Playstation 5. Maybe some have heard about dev kits or even seen them, but those are not necessarily final silicon.

I can't say how far in they decided on certain specifications like clockspeeds. Maybe early devkits were running 5700 (XT) cards from AMD or old Radeon VII cards.

The people that actually knew about the final specs are also the ones that know how the console looks and so far we have had no leaks from the actual console. Nobody wants to lose their jobs over it and it would be too easy to track individuals that know exactly, especially within Sony/Microsoft or otherwise we would've seen the PS5 + Controller by now, but dev kits look different.

Lots of explanations but I would stick to the easiest.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
No insider claimed 12 TF before MS revealed XSX as "double One X". And then suddenly every insider did. The truth is insiders on forums don't exist. They are just people with an agenda. No actual insider would want to risk their career to prop up an anonymous account for internet fame. Not directly and not indirectly. That "my friend is a dev and he knows stuff" meme is just that, a meme. When all you can gain is to lose everything, you keep your mouth shut because NDAs are no joke.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Swaganizonda said:
Because of ps5 pro.

All the xsx trolls are in for a ride once they learn that the PS5 that is capable of throwing punches with the highest from MS is just the base model.

You heard it here first.
Click to expand...

So Sony has a 10.6 TF 499 base PS5 and a 12 TF 599 Pro? And they don't tell devs for GDC because ... why?
 
DynamiteCop!

DynamiteCop!

Banned
None of these people were insiders, not a single one of them, NOT ONE.

They were all wrong, they all look like the idiots now that I always said they were. The only accurate piece of information to release that wasn't guess work was the Github leak from an AMD employee.

All of the PlayStation community is in shambles and damage controlling right now because they believed the nonsense and it formed an expectation which never delivered and they can't let go.
 
F

Fulcizombie

Banned
It is a case by case situation really. Some were random forum users (osirisblack, Tommy Fischer e.t.c) having a good laugh. Some were somewhat more credible (Kleegamefan, Matt ) but had really no clue. Schrier is a biased journalist who was writing whatever and could hide behind anonymous «developers», as he still does.
The only person who threw us a small bone, but nobody wanted to believe, was Tom Warren.
 
Musky_Cheese

Musky_Cheese

Banned
Hmm. Let me think of something... ok

The PS5 is so balanced, I mean so ludicrously balanced, that it punches way above its weight. So that 9 flops plays like it’s 13 flops.

So naturally if a “insider” worked on the system but they were kept in the dark about the specs, they would make their best guess.

Boy, that PS5 must be crazy balanced
 
JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned
Musky_Cheese said:
If everyone who was passing bad info and speculation is banned, we would only have 25 people online
Click to expand...

giphy.gif



edit

(not directed at you, Musky_Cheese Musky_Cheese )
 
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G

Gargus

Banned
You'll never be disappointed if you simply follow one of my rules. Dont believe anything unless it comes directly from the source.

If you do that you wont be dissapointed or mislead. It really is that simple. But so many people today and so willing to be believe some random asshole on the internet that they will just blindly believe anything. Today if it's something someone reads on the internet, no matter how baseless or stupid it is people just say "I read it on the internet" and assume that gives them credibility. When I was a kid the equivalent was "I read it in an article somewhere".
 
Journey

Journey

Banned
Perhaps MS waited before giving devs final Xbox Series X spec'd consoles in order to keep things tighter. I think Phil mentioned that in a tweet.
 
Swaganizonda

Swaganizonda

Banned
Journey said:
Perhaps MS waited before giving devs final Xbox Series X spec'd consoles in order to keep things tighter. I think Phil mentioned that in a tweet.
Click to expand...
My man Phill is all about transparency and honest communication. He's been saying from the beginning he wanted to keep the power lead and he luckily got what he wanted.

It's a total insider-wannabe fuck up. No such thing as giving weaker devkits on purpose because of a competitor's plans.
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Musky_Cheese said:
Hmm. Let me think of something... ok

The PS5 is so balanced, I mean so ludicrously balanced, that it punches way above its weight. So that 9 flops plays like it’s 13 flops.

So naturally if a “insider” worked on the system but they were kept in the dark about the specs, they would make their best guess.

Boy, that PS5 must be crazy balanced
Click to expand...
Of course it would be after being blessed by Thanos himself
 
Rightisright

Rightisright

Banned
Some did for Lols, other because they need attention, other just guessed and hoped they would be close and look like they are legit.
I guessed a PS5 GPU to be 36-40 Cu's with 9.2-10.24 tflops. So If I said I was an insider I would have looked good reveal time.
I Think theres a bit of that.

I dont understand why OB did what he did tho. That was beyond bizarre.
 
HarryKS

HarryKS

Member
VFXVeteran said:
Me nor HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 was wrong about our sources. We were clearly the underdog to the point that even I doubted my sources which irritated them.
Click to expand...
Nope, you guys fell for the classic e-fame trap. As much as you don't like this opinion, because of your technical background, you'd feel exasperated about the speculation going around. Kept harping about your sources but hardly gave anything away. A carrot at the end of the stick. You wanted the cake, and the money for the cake. It doesn't work that way.
The people who played the game, at least played it at their own risk and peril.
 
Belmonte

Belmonte

Member
They knew the truth but their minds couldn't accept it so they fabricated a new reality. After some time they started to believe it, with all their might.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
I don't know this for a fact but this is my theory:

All that time, Sony was using GCN Flops for their dev kits. Trying to get devs to get a head start on development. These GCN dev kits were meant to simulate the final RDNA 2 console. MS on the other hand were either using straight up RDNA Flops or were purposefully misleading.

So basically devs had PS5 GCN dev kits that were 13TF's but in reality, because of architectural differences, they were meant to target the retail RDNA console TF's.

Leaks spread stating that thew PS5 was more powerful. But in reality those PS5 GCN dev kits were no match for Xbox's actual RDNA dev kits.

It's the only logical explanation as to why all these people (Reinert, Colin, Klee etc...) were wrong. In fact, during the PS5 tech deep dive, Cerny stated several times that you cannot compare PS5 Flops with PS4 Flops (architectural differences). Confirming (at least to me) their train of thought.

In my conclusion, their dev kits were high spec GCN all along meant to simulate their final hardware.
 
Pallas

Pallas

Gold Member
MaulerX said:
I don't know this for a fact but this is my theory:

All that time, Sony was using GCN Flops for their dev kits. Trying to get devs to get a head start on development. These GCN dev kits were meant to simulate the final RDNA 2 console. MS on the other hand were either using straight up RDNA Flops or were purposefully misleading.

So basically devs had PS5 GCN dev kits that were 13TF's but in reality, because of architectural differences, they were meant to target the retail RDNA console TF's.

Leaks spread stating that thew PS5 was more powerful. But in reality those PS5 GCN dev kits were no match for Xbox's actual RDNA dev kits.

It's the only logical explanation as to why all these people (Reinert, Colin, Klee etc...) were wrong. In fact, during the PS5 tech deep dive, Cerny stated several times that you cannot compare PS5 Flops with PS4 Flops (architectural differences). Confirming (at least to me) their train of thought.

In my conclusion, their dev kits were high spec GCN all along meant to simulate their final hardware.
Click to expand...

If JS is to be believed, he did mention that Sony was ahead in devkits development. So maybe Sony started earlier than Microsoft in development of dev kits and wanted to release before them but for whatever reason that didn't quite work out.

Though I’m happy that both has fit the most part that specs finalized. You imagine trying to start development now with Covid-19? There was already shortage on parts(if to be believed) it could of been much worse.
 
Journey

Journey

Banned
Swaganizonda said:
My man Phill is all about transparency and honest communication. He's been saying from the beginning he wanted to keep the power lead and he luckily got what he wanted.

It's a total insider-wannabe fuck up. No such thing as giving weaker devkits on purpose because of a competitor's plans.
Click to expand...

I’m not talking out of my ass, I’m referring to this:

www.pushsquare.com

Microsoft Wants to 'Surprise Sony' with Xbox Scarlett, Devkits are Reportedly Rare and 'Nowhere Near Final'

Devkit console wars
www.pushsquare.com www.pushsquare.com
 
Norse

Norse

Member
I think some "insiders" only got half the info and assumed or guessed the rest. Like being told ps5 GPU was over 2ghz and then assumed/guessed it had 52 cu like series x.
 
Bernkastel

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
What do you expect, when this is your insider ?
OsirisBlack said:
the lead graphics engine designer laughs at me for stopping every 30 seconds to just rotate the camera and look at the sights and listen to the sounds of their game world. "Everything in the game is PBR with multiple sources of volumetric lighting. All of the characters in this game are unique. You will never see the same character model more than once." As I am playing I realize how difficult this game is. I play several games competitively multiple genres (Smite,R6,SFV,CoD,BF,League) but I am getting my ass handed to me. I take the lead character out into a hallway and two enemies rush into the room shooting and moving in what appears to be a tactical pattern. "Is this fucking guy shooting at me while the other guy is trying to circle around to flank me?" he laughs again. "Yep, suppressive fire." As the enemy shoots at me I take note of the deformation of the geometry on display, chunks of cement give way revealing the metal pipes underneath that hold the structure together. Everything is based in reality including what happens when you shoot people or get shot. Its beautiful but it aint pretty.

I sit the controller down (I'm about to die again anyways) "The game is definitely running at 60fps" he shakes his head at me "No its running at 90fps locked. native 4k." dumb stare "On which machine?" he smiles "Both of them."

Two hours and several drinks later

When I asked about the performance of both consoles his response was "Both have the same target we will see if either of them hit that target. " I pushed further and asked what the target was and his response was simply."Above 12" That is not for the XseX or the PS5,from what I can gather internally both machines are targeting very high performance which lines up with hearing earlier that the machines would both be $499 with both companies Taking a loss.

Notes
The gdk they are working with is not the final kit for either machine and XseX is currently ahead in terms of sheer power. Sonys tool set is much more complete and refined.
The trailer is all actual game play. Not in engine but game play.
Every developer or engineer I have ever met day drinks.
Click to expand...
 
Gamerguy84

Gamerguy84

Member
This is a complete guess and probably way off base.

Could it be the dev kits they had were not RDNA? Could they have been 2080s?
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The fact is that devs have different skills, tasks and need to know about the system specs.

Artists, animators, musicians, designers, qa, hell a lot of mid to low level coders have absolutely no use for teraflop count or granular detail on the internals of these systems.

Work budgets aren't calculated based on that. The leads and engine team have some need for this sort of information in order to ballpark the implementation targets, but that's due to the nature of their work, and in spite of the pay-grade or seniority it doesn't make then more "insiders" than the rest of the team.

What's more, these individuals communicate informally more often than formally, which leads to plenty of exaggeration, misconception and the like. So when they are in turn asked for what they know, its as likely to be hearsay and conjecture as much as absolute fact. There's absolutely no way that everyone is in on tech-briefings, especially when pre-launch NDA's are going to be in play.

Long story short, insider information comes with no guarantee of accuracy. Not out of malice, but just simply because although they are closer to the source, they are still just as prone to getting their wires crossed as anyone else.

I was in the biz for over 20 years, and I've been posting on GAF for about a decade on top of that, and it still amazes me how simplistic and distorted the perceptions are of the reality of working life in the industry. Its just weird to me how people seem to think of the development community as a homogeneous bloc, its absolutely nothing like that.

Knowing precisely from whom the information comes is absolutely key when it comes to determining the likely veracity of any rumor. But of course when it comes to people speaking anonymously to journos or in a public forum, you will never get that.

Pinch of salt. Always. And not because they are necessarily agents of deception, there's a good chance that their opinion may be arrived at subjectively, or with incomplete/inaccurate information on their end.
 
G

Goliathy

Banned
Sony has a HUGE fanbase. And they are very loyal and maybe a little delusional.
i think they tried to create as much as hype for the ps5 as possible.
Just look at the „ps5 reveal tomorrow thread“, so many people hyped af and were convinced that PS5 will be 13TF.
the fanbase did this to help Sony. Building this hype can be extremely beneficial.
So, all these „insiders„ are just Sony believers that try anything to help Sony and there was a LOT of wishful thinking, but nothing of that turned out to be true.
 
O

onQ123

Member
bitbydeath said:
Bingo
Click to expand...

Plus the fact that PS5 final clock speed was still in the air so most people really didn't have the final specs, Cerny said they had to lock it because they was able to get clocks above 2.23GHz but wanted to keep it at a clock rate that worked with all the components of the GPU or whatever he said.

So the devkits might have been unlocked so when the CPU go to 1.6GHz the GPU was able to go up around 2.8GHz or something like that
 
SentientStone

SentientStone

Member
Goliathy said:
Sony has a HUGE fanbase. And they are very loyal and maybe a little delusional.
i think they tried to create as much as hype for the ps5 as possible.
Just look at the „ps5 reveal tomorrow thread“, so many people hyped af and were convinced that PS5 will be 13TF.
the fanbase did this to help Sony. Building this hype can be extremely beneficial.
So, all these „insiders„ are just Sony believers that try anything to help Sony and there was a LOT of wishful thinking, but nothing of that turned out to be true.
Click to expand...

No way, we are pure logic!
You take that back, you!
 
Kagey K

Kagey K

Banned
Swaganizonda said:
My man Phill is all about transparency and honest communication. He's been saying from the beginning he wanted to keep the power lead and he luckily got what he wanted.

It's a total insider-wannabe fuck up. No such thing as giving weaker devkits on purpose because of a competitor's plans.
Click to expand...
But, the console wars are over and MS no longer cares about gamers or hardware.

They are shifting to services and Sony will always have the better hardware. They are only doing the Series X to pick up the last of the hardcore.

This is the last hardware Xbox will ever release.

Or so I’ve been told over and over again in this place.
 
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